Was PL the end of fireball? (in General)

QBRanger September 5 2009 11:19 AM EDT

It used to be that FB would great in that it took out the low hp minions, eventually ramping up in damage as less minions were alive.

Now, ever since PL, it is harder and harder to kill those pesky 20 hp enchanters because they never freaking die.

PL this and PL that, with the TSA to give the PL minion more hp for more freaking PL. Making FB almost impossible to get to the point of maximal 1 minion damage.

Then, when you make it to melee, you fry your own team. The only character that does not fry themselves is a single FB mage without a familiar tattoo. And those are as rare as the dodo bird.

Something needs to be done to help poor old FB.

Please, can we get the friendly fire removed? I know the PL/TSA/revive axis of fun is not going away.

Adminedyit [Superheros] September 5 2009 11:27 AM EDT

PL and then lowering the damage done in ranged rounds was the end of FB.

QBRanger September 5 2009 11:32 AM EDT


Which is one reason I would like to see the damage penalties in ranged from DD spells be reduced by 1/2.

AdminNightStrike September 5 2009 11:44 AM EDT

Removing the friendly fire makes FB too similar to COC

Lochnivar September 5 2009 11:52 AM EDT

why not just remove the ranged penalty on FB (or reduce it say, 75%)

If you can kill fast, great.... if it goes 20 rounds you fry yourself...

le voila, choice :-)

Drama [Just for fun] September 5 2009 11:56 AM EDT

Give the FB a burning effect wich after the round of first hit, all opponents minion burn for a % of FB trained. A low damage that can't be PL or GA or AMF. Good for killing those low HP minion. It would make some sense I think.

QBRanger September 5 2009 12:24 PM EDT

Yes NS,

However, it does a lot less damage than CoC and fires much earlier.

But FB is a rather pathetic damage form now.

QBRanger September 5 2009 12:29 PM EDT

The reason I brought this up, if people think I am being selfish, is that the FF would seem to be a perfect familiar for my character.

A FB to get rid of the low hp blocker minions and then an archer to do the heavy damage.

However, I find with the FF I almost never take out those low hp blocker minions in front due to the prevalence of PL. And then when I make it to melee, I fry my tank.

Seems to be the antithesis of what should happen.

Lochnivar September 5 2009 12:33 PM EDT

I assumed it was brought up because beyond a certain point nobody uses FB....

QBRanger September 5 2009 12:34 PM EDT

Yes Lurk,

That was a key reason as well.

One would think on a character like mine, a FF would be a perfect addition.

However I find it very lacking and actually detrimental to me. I lose people off my fightlist even using the correct equipment.

I see nobody in the top ranks successfully using one.

So I gave some ideas to help it along.

{Wookie}-Jir.Vr- September 5 2009 1:12 PM EDT

FF sucks right now and needs a boost...

Sickone September 5 2009 1:49 PM EDT

The friendly fire should never have been introduced in the first place.

QBRanger September 5 2009 1:53 PM EDT

Or one can look at FB like a level 1 mage spell.

Great early in the game, however later it is obsolete as other nastier spells become known/viable.

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] September 5 2009 2:15 PM EDT

"Removing the friendly fire makes FB too similar to COC"

Maybe certain pieces of equipment could have resistance/weaknesses to one or the other. Maybe even SG and MM.

ResistanZ2 [The Knighthood] September 5 2009 2:37 PM EDT

Removing the friendly fire makes FB too similar to COC

That doesn't seem like a very excuse to leave FB crippled.

ResistanZ2 [The Knighthood] September 5 2009 2:38 PM EDT


QBOddBird September 5 2009 2:46 PM EDT

NS - what if FB stayed like it is but it does residual burn damage that accumulates over the rounds >.>

So if your FB minion gets toasted, they continue to take damage from their burn wounds. It's a throwaway ranged minion!

Just like how our teams are throwaway!


Drama [Just for fun] September 5 2009 3:33 PM EDT

That's pretty similar to an idea I brought earlier in this thread.

{WW]Nayab [Cult of the Valaraukar] September 5 2009 5:22 PM EDT

OB brought back up because it was a GOOD idea.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 5 2009 6:09 PM EDT

NS, why not differentiate between CoC and FB by bringing back the way spread DD worked in CB1, but only for FB.

Remove the Friendly Fire (if you don't want to just remove it make a Mage Skill that negates it), and have FB do more overall damage when it faces multiple minions.

At the moment, both Spread DDs do 1/Number of Tagets for damage. Back in CB1 you would get a lsight bonus to damage if your DDs 'spread'.

This would reinforce FB as a multi target killer, and not require monkey-ing around with Ranged damage to potentially make FB the best attack in the game.

CoC would remian dealing more overall damage per level, but would remain with the standard 1/Targets spread.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] September 5 2009 6:37 PM EDT

DD seems to be then only "ranged" damage that has a penalty in damage. Whats the deal with that?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 5 2009 7:22 PM EDT

Penalites to hit are in essence penalties to damage. ;)

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] September 5 2009 8:12 PM EDT

I have Posted this a few times and so far all I have ever gottens was dead silence except from one person. I honestly think if this were to be implemented that it could very well solve a lot of so called problems with different things. Feedback from people with a better sense of Game Mechanics could very well make this a much better idea.

Well having a Skill or Once again me with this "Innate Talent" thing could come into play at a certain level.

Here it goes, the N*B is regulated by the TOP 5 Chars MPR if I remember Right. Well If Whatever DD or Skill's Innate Talent (Second Nature?) were regulated the same way for when it kicks in then there would be no hard cap. The curve would be created then for whatever you may need as a buff to whatever Skill/DD Spell.

Lets say the Top 5 users of Whatever Skill/DD Spell "Blah" Mil Trained then use that as a way to regulate a point of "Enlightenment/Expertise" say maybe 50 - 70% of the Average of the Top 5 Users would be that point. Then the Innate Talent kicks in and starts to Grow similar to the MTL we already have. This however would be dependent solely on how much of the Skill/DD Spell you train rather than anything else like HP, STR, or Dex.

In the Case of Fire Ball the Backsplash/Friendly Fire Damage would be reduced because of Expertise in said DD Spell.

In UCs Case Maybe a Buff to Damage or Added Dex/Endurance.

For CoC maybe a Front to back Buff in Damage.

ToE could get a buff to assist with Resistance to GA Damage.

{WW]Nayab [Cult of the Valaraukar] September 5 2009 9:43 PM EDT

Compared to Zenai's post, my solution is miniscule.

I was thinking that an addition to Fireball could be a burn effect that meant that for each time a minion was hit by fireball any further damage to that minion from fireball would be increased by 2% for each time it had been hit previously.

miteke [Superheros] September 5 2009 10:26 PM EDT

I think the KISS principle should apply. Just increase damage until it is useful. No other change is really necessary.

Demigod September 5 2009 11:10 PM EDT

I don't think that just increasing total damage would do much, as it will increase the backfire as well. Lowering the percent of backfire or lowering the ranged penalty might.

lostling September 5 2009 11:55 PM EDT

I dont understand why fb is crap because of pl... Doesnt it achieve max focus damage at once due to pl?

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] September 6 2009 12:17 AM EDT

Hence the Reason for my post. I have a Philosophy that most of the time is very true. The Answer to something Complicated is Simple. The Answer to something Simple is Complicated.

A panel wide Innate Skill/Talent/Ability/Expertise is more than likely a good answer but since everyone wants simple take it like this.

Top 3 in whatever Determines your Innate Whatever's Enlightenment Zone. It grows like MTL according to how much you train in that Whatever. Not hard or complicated.....

I simply explained it out in detail so it would be understood sorry for the confusion.

Cube September 6 2009 2:43 AM EDT

That's my interpretation as well Lost... I always felt that FB was good against PL and TSA-PL. It keeps the TSA from regenerating for one because once it runs out of HP, the minion will also take damage itself and die...

Drama [Just for fun] September 6 2009 3:08 AM EDT

I think it was good against PL but the damage reduction in range as made it weak. You have to wait to fry yourself up before doing decent damage against high hp PL TSA wall.

QBRanger September 6 2009 9:38 AM EDT


Read my first post.

One of the benefits of FB was the ability to kill the lower hp minions letting FB really ramp up its damage when less minions are alive.

WIth PL, and the lower damage in missile, that is harder and harder to do.

Then when you get to melee, and the better damage, you fry your own team.
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002rsr">Was PL the end of fireball?</a>