Reevaluation of the drop system. (in General)


QBRanger September 16 2009 4:26 PM EDT

Can we please get this reevaluated?

I have not received a drop in ages, at least a month now.

Now that lesser tattoos are out, it seems I see less and less drops occurring.

But for me, the novelty of the drops wore off long ago. I bet most people, if they get a drop, have a faint "wow" and then move on to sell the item. Which in most cases is not needed by that person.

All this time, I see my cash reserves climbing at a very slow pace.

Yes, it is my fault for wanting to buy BA everyday, and my fault for wanting to test a few different tattoos.

But please reconsider this drop system as it really adds very very little to the game.

Lord Bob September 16 2009 4:28 PM EDT

Seconded.

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] September 16 2009 4:34 PM EDT

I liked the change at first, I really did. I thought it was exciting but right now, even if I got a good drop (I have not for a couple years now...) I don't think I'd even stop to tell myself how great it is. In the end I'd have been much better served by the cash I haven't been rewarded with.

Effort A+
Result F-

QBsutekh137 September 16 2009 4:36 PM EDT

I have not gotten a drop in quite some time either, and would love my cash reserves to climb faster since I am no longer buying BA...

All posts so far are in direct agreement of my assessment of the drops system.

Neo Japan September 16 2009 4:39 PM EDT

I laugh at how the complaints stop until a month goes by without Ranger getting a drop, who had gotten probably triple in worth, if not more, in drops than I ever have, yet I don't complain. Just stop to think that maybe, just maybe, the 20% cut in money was going to happen anyway, be he added the drop as a benefit and JUST DROP IT!!!

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 16 2009 4:40 PM EDT

looking at shade's most recent economic report and comparing the total liquid assets and item net worth for the past few weeks with the same stats for a year ago, i would ask one question:

even if the drop system was changed would the cash come back? in other words, was the drop system implemented to slow down the economy and thus combat item rescales?

QBRanger September 16 2009 4:45 PM EDT

I have no liked this drop system from the day it was enacted.

Regardless of whether or not I received items.

Now I bring it up again since we are in the middle of another changemonth.

But direct attacks on myself or others who post are not required, needed or approved of.

If you cannot post something without attacking someone else in this thread, then do not post.

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] September 16 2009 4:47 PM EDT

Accusations of bias every time a change is deemed to simply be bad are not really helping.

Sometimes, the community is better off with people complaining than just "dropping it". I think the best you could do, if you think someone is requesting a change simply based on bias, is to prove with facts that they are wrong to request said change.

Going "waaah, stop whining" is counter-productive in many cases...

Godpanda September 16 2009 4:52 PM EDT

Oh, be real, Ranger. You never gave the drop system a chance :P (Literally. I thought I was being unfair. But no. Your 2nd post in the Changelog thread described the change as "meh".

But it's not like I disagree with you here. Players simply no longer make enough money to both play to the best of their ability AND put money in savings at a realistic pace.

Unlike everyone against the change though, I don't think the solution is to take the drops away and up the cash again. I would just prefer to see the fixed prices of things drops. Mainly, I'd like to see the prices of new minions go down, the price of BA go down to a lesser extent.

I ALSO think, and this more importantly, that what you earn through drops should NOT necessarily be available elsewhere. What should be a bonus in a player's day is just compensation currently. Instead of it being a "Here's a new aspect to the game" it was a "I'm taking your money but throwing you a bone while I'm at it". Which I don't necessarily think was the intent, but I think that's how many players view it.

The system DOES need a rescaling. Definitely. 100% agreed. I just hope it doesn't end up being a sort of "Fine, quit complaining you ungrateful louts" /removedrop+20%money kind of deal. That would suck.

{WW]Nayab [Cult of the Valaraukar] September 16 2009 4:54 PM EDT

I would honestly prefer to abolish this drop system in favour of getting our money back.
Even if we don't get a refund i would prefer to have money then often useless drops.

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] September 16 2009 4:57 PM EDT

"I ALSO think, and this more importantly, that what you earn through drops should NOT necessarily be available elsewhere."

Yeah. I've suggested this, as did many other people including yourself, many times. Drop-only goods, may they be unique items, trinkets, blood vials (lol)...I think it's the way to go. But not at the expense of 20% of cash rewards. 1-5% may work.

{WW]Nayab [Cult of the Valaraukar] September 16 2009 4:58 PM EDT

Well we could have it that we add 1 hour bonuses to the droppable items that give you a 40% bonus to cash rewards or something.

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] September 16 2009 4:59 PM EDT

Or diablo-like suffixes and prefixes, applied temporarily or permanently (SMALL bonuses.) to a random piece of equipment in your possession.

Godpanda September 16 2009 5:02 PM EDT

Seriously, man. Blood Vials is a great idea. =D

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] September 16 2009 5:03 PM EDT

Indeed.

QBRanger September 16 2009 5:04 PM EDT

Blood Vials is not an idea I would like to see in CB.

Levon [Clocked Out] September 16 2009 5:48 PM EDT

it's funny, this issue being revisited is like beating a dead horse with its own hoof..

if you want more money, it has nothing to do with the drop system.. simply put in a petition stating "I want more money" and what you would do with more money

leave the drop system alone, i haven't seen a single valid reason why it's bad.. just a bunch of people saying they want more money!

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] September 16 2009 5:52 PM EDT

More money + current drops = cash flood?

Asking solely for more money would not be a good thing, and I think most people understand that, hence why they ask for more money, and less or no drops.

QBRanger September 16 2009 6:07 PM EDT

Levon,

Have you not read the pasts posts about this subject and why a lot of people believe this is a bad thing for CB?

If not, please refer to those threads.

If you do not agree with them, that is one thing.

But at least acknowledge there are reasons that others may believe this system is bad.

Unappreciated Misnomer September 16 2009 6:11 PM EDT

i honestly believe this drop system is faulted with the cash rewards beings reduced. i find no incentive to burn BA during wacky cash hours because i make more money with 160 ba any other day of the week. i personally have only received one item, a near base katana. and from what im hearing if i didnt get x million worth of items i must be doing something wrong, that or the game hates me.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 16 2009 6:13 PM EDT

the downward trend of our population has reversed though since this change was implemented while a whole slew of multis have been killed off. should more data be gathered to determine if any correlation exists?

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] September 16 2009 6:15 PM EDT

BTW, what I meant with my last post is that, to accomodate the new drop system, the availability of items wasn't increased. The drops actually come from transfering auction spawns to said system. So the number of items in game should have remained about the same. Jon also lowered the cash rewards to go with the new drop system, in a way that does not in fact result in more networth. (Items+cash value combined.)

Asking for more money and no abolishment of drops is in fact asking for the same amount of items we had before the change + NEW, added sums of cash to enter the game.

So, like before, but with more cash flowing into the game. This makes no sense, as new cash sinks would have to be put in place to compensate. Blah, blah, blah...

No one simply asks for more cash because it's stupid, while asking for regular cash and regular item creation is not. It may be different, and you may or may not like the idea, but it's not as counter-productive as "MOAR CASH".

I'll shut up now :P

{Wookie}-Jir.Vr- September 16 2009 6:16 PM EDT

I don't see how NCBs are possible with the current CB rewards, NCB gets changed to 6 months, which means an extra two months of buying BA at CRAZY HIGH prices... then you slash rewards so it's even HARDER to get CB...

It's no wonder people resort to multis...

I hate the current system, 50k fights and a whopping bonus of 500k worth of items...

Snore.

lostling September 16 2009 6:19 PM EDT

i think the drop system should be tweaked.
1. it has no meaning at all atm (other then being pure randomness)

2. make better stuff drop against people with higher challenge bonus

3. make items that are DROP only

then maybe more people will appreciate it :)

1 bone
2 katana
1 coi
so far

kevlar September 16 2009 6:28 PM EDT

As for part of the money issue, I always thought part of the change was to address some of the balance to the game in respect to weapons users vs. mages,unarmed combat etc. Look at weapons cost to upgrade damage (X). There is no curve to it... so you just plow all that extra money into your weapon. Mages/UC/etc can't do anything with extra money, damage wise.
This also might be a way to make $$$ wacky time more enticing since EXP time has always been >>>>>> $$$ time. Although I guess some say they make less... I definitely make more, but still prefer EXP time.

I wish more explanation behind the reasoning was offered. I'd like to be able to at least cover the cost of BA when buying it but is this what is really intended? Maybe we're supposed to pick and choose days when we want to buy BA and when we need to save and accumulate money. Maybe things are becoming less automatic.

As for the NCB issue, I have no clue what to say about that. Would have to definitely hear from Jon on what he is intending with that.
Maybe there hasn't been enough time to see the results, or maybe things are going according to plan! I still think this change was made for the longevity of the game and fully support any change that helps this game thrive on. Until we hear from Jon, it's all speculation :)

(I love the Fight Feed, but does anyone else get lag while typing do to it? argh)

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] September 16 2009 6:39 PM EDT

NJ,
that's just a stupid comment about Ranger inciting everything.
I've always been pissed off by this system but a hundred different people making a new thread every day is just going to get us into hot water.
A month was a reasonable time to wait to make the point again especially as the removal of lesser tats has screwed the system. I last got a drop around a month ago and had forgotten I should be getting any which actually makes the cash drop even more unbearable, I was forced into borrowing just because the loss in cash in return for sod all caused me problems with advancing my strategy.

Burton September 16 2009 7:24 PM EDT

This if kind of funny, I was going to make a thread exactly like this, as I have not received a drop in like 2 months. But I come back online and Mandos gives me a ToA.
Nevertheless, 2 months for 1 drop and 20% less $$$, come on here.
I agree with what Ranger says here, please reevaluate it.

Levon [Clocked Out] September 16 2009 8:17 PM EDT

sorry dude, i didn't read all the posts about the drop system because i read alot of nonsense and negativity, which pretty much turns my stomach.. the recurring theme of the complaints was that there was less income.. boo hoo hoo, you have 3000 times as much money as i do, and yet i'm the advocate for less income while you remain an advocate for more money

there is a new system in place that will obviously need changes.. instead of chastising this system that has so much potential, can you guys please stop asking for control of the game to benefit yourselves and start making recommendations for improvements and alterations?

i mean honestly, who's idea was it to implement the drop system anyways? do you have any idea how insulting it is to the person that came up with the system, when you're nagging him all day long that his idea sucks and that it was a stupid idea to implement!

well, whoever it was, i'm sticking with him.. i think it's a great idea and he has my support, it's also such a clever idea that it escapes players that have been playing much longer than i have

good night, it's time to take my traz, i'm going to bed early and wake up early to go to the gym :-p

QBRanger September 16 2009 8:19 PM EDT

Levon,

Not all ideas are a home run.

Not all swings are even hits. Even the best baseball player makes an out over 50% of the time.

PearsonTritonRaveshaw September 16 2009 8:27 PM EDT

Screw you Ranger! Blood Vials rule! =P

Rethink the drop system.

Darth Vader rules. Jedi rule. Sith rule. Rancors are awesome.

Last but not least, I'm sexy.

QBRanger September 16 2009 8:32 PM EDT

To continue.

Not all changes are good.

Change for the sake of change is not good.

I have no reason why this was done except for some hope to bring back a form for camping. However, I and others can see not pluses this system gives CB.

A few people stated that it would give new players and even some old ones a "rush" when they found an item. However, when one goes weeks or months without a single drop, that takes the fun out of a rush.

Maybe new players with the NUB like it, however, we all know they are playing with funny money and not in the real world of CB. The NUB alone gives them so much money to do basically whatever they want.

Perhaps it is to lower the money overall in CB. Maybe, just tell us that and move on. As Jon has done a few times in the past.

However, the changelog about the drops system included, in the same post a statement out a drop in income to compensate for the drops.

That leads me and a lot of others, to believe they are related.

But unlike some other changes over the years, this one is not a very good one for gameplay and economic stability of players.

I do not have a NCB and find it hard to buy all my BA each day and rent a few items to help me.

As a tank, I will perhaps in time need to increase my weapons to keep up with the increasing DD familiars damage and mage damage.

However with the current income I make, that is impossible without USD.

I feel bad for people who had loans or were planning on a NCB run, or were planning on buying minions. As these plans were delayed or abandoned due to this new feature.

And while things may even out over time, we have seen a large discordance in the drops. Some people have received 6+M worth of drops while others have less than 100k.

While for a RPG that may work, this is chiefly a strategy game which makes a world of difference.

SuperHD September 16 2009 8:36 PM EDT

But please reconsider this drop system as it really adds very very little to the game.

--QBRanger, 4:26 PM EDT

I agree totally with Ranger.

Maybe keep the drop for The Shire and Rivendell character...

or make the drop non-item. ; what i mean is instead of an item popping out of nowhere after a battle,why not have from time to time more exp or more cash. (yeah sure thats everybody want, more XP and $$$) hahaha

TrueDevil [AAA] September 16 2009 8:37 PM EDT

yes please, I haven't received anything either, only ever got 3 items since the update.... if anything, it's like useless feature.... useful for the lucky ones, but apparently there's only a small number of people that are really lucky...

QBRanger September 16 2009 8:41 PM EDT

Or just keep it for NUB characters as they are the ones who may benefit by getting an item they can use.

AdminShade September 17 2009 1:25 AM EDT

I think most veterans would want to see it gone, while most NUBs would want to see it being kept, as they get money but need to find people who sell them items of worth for their character build-up.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] September 17 2009 7:19 AM EDT

If it goes for the vets, then it should go for the nub.
If you remove the drops for the vets this means less people in the lottery and thus higher drop rates for nub's.

Why would they get a higher drop percentage? And all those other advantages over vets like more cash and free BA?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 17 2009 8:02 AM EDT

i am still fine with the drop system. i do think for the amount of rewards we gave up that we should get all of the spawns in the drop system rather than just half though.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 17 2009 8:40 AM EDT

quoting from the other thread...why do we have two?

"in the year from august 2008 to august 2009, liquid assets increased from 5.4 million to over 7 million. that is about a 30% increase in a period that was roughly only 20 percent of cb2's lifespan.

total item net worth in the same period increased from over 37m to approximately 53.4m. that was an increase of around 44% for one year.

regardless of the original wording it is not a stretch to believe that these factors may have some influence on us ever getting the reduction in cash rewards back in the same form."

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 17 2009 8:50 AM EDT

posted before coffee! those numbers above are all billions rather than millions. the percentages are the same though. :0

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 17 2009 9:06 AM EDT

i think the real question that should be asked though is why has our total liquid assets and item net worth exploded at such an astounding rate while our population was shrinking?

as the nub grows it will only get to be a higher bonus percentage. even with a shrinking population if the amount of nubs that stick around for most of their run remains fairly constant then the money introduced by them may be at fault here.

will all players be punished by reductions in rewards to compensate? will the nub be rescaled once again, increasing its length and requiring more dedication at least for the asset gains?

AdminNightStrike September 17 2009 11:56 AM EDT

> i think the real question that should be asked though is why has our total liquid assets and item net worth exploded at such an astounding rate while our population was shrinking?

Probably because of tournaments.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 17 2009 12:01 PM EDT

how would tournaments increase liquid assets though? through the salvage yard?

do you and jon see that asset explosion as a problem even nightstrike?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 17 2009 12:03 PM EDT

i thought that money was set to zero when tournament characters are retired, it would seem that is not the case though so that would likely explain both .

Demigod September 17 2009 12:07 PM EDT

I've never participated in a tournament, but I thought all the money and assets were self-contained. Apparantly not.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 17 2009 12:22 PM EDT

items do not get cleared off of tourney characters either it appears.

if that is the case, let's have all the auction spawns as random drops and the 20% cash reward reduction back as well! ; )

QBRanger September 17 2009 12:44 PM EDT

I would love to see it only on NUB characters, the drop that is. With, of course, no change in the rate they drop.

For regular characters with regular rewards, including NCB, just give us our old rewards without drops as most of us already have the items we need. And the drops get sold most of the time anyway.

A lot of us forget the huge money loss NUB characters got by this change. 20% of their entire NUB reward was lost. So even if their drop rate increased a bit, I would have no problem with it and it may perhaps make the NUB a bit more fun.

Demigod September 17 2009 12:51 PM EDT

"20% of their entire NUB reward was lost"

Let's be fair. Add back into that the value of items NUBs received and sold. I was a NUB until very recently, and the amount I lost was probably closer to 5%. Even if it's not a perfect zero-sum event, it's relatively across the board (not just the vocal members).

BHT September 17 2009 1:24 PM EDT

I...actually...agree with Ranger...

Shark September 19 2009 5:54 AM EDT


I think I have a better chance winning the mega millions than getting anything DROPPED on me from Vardos..,

The only thing thats DROPPED for me since I been here is my balance of play money in PayPal...( doesn't look like theres much hope ever getting that back out of this place..

CB is turning like a gaseous swamp, and starting to smell bad too

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] September 19 2009 1:06 PM EDT

Dudemus, one way tournaments introduce money into the system is when people charge insanely high prices for tattoos. The main reason for the high increase in liquid assets is the NUB, no doubt about it. It just keeps dumping CBD upon CBD into the system. Especially when people keep selling out and coming back. I could see quite the reasoning behind this change.

Admiralkiller September 19 2009 2:16 PM EDT

Been forever since I have received my last drop i would guess about 1 and 1/2 months. Ranger does have a good idea also.
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002sW8">Reevaluation of the drop system.</a>