Evasion question - DBs and EBs (in General)

The main interest I have is it says for Evasion when you equip DBs, they are not affected by the Dex penalty. But EBs are.

From wiki: Only trained Evasion is 60% as effective. Evasion granted by Displacement Boots or another source give full effect and are stacked AFTER the penalty has taken place.

I guess the "evasion granted by" confuses me... DBs grant evasion and stack after the penalty, but EBs don't "grant" evasion, they stack before the penalty?

Is the added bonus EBs give to Evasion supposed to be subject to the penalty too? I did the calc. and they definitely are, but I was wondering is it because the EB bonus 'stacks linearly'. You can see the change in amount of Evasion granted when you equip/unequip EBs but you don't for DBs (because they work like enchantments, non-linearly is what wiki says).

So if that is the case, are DBs a clear winner of choice when using evasion (a bigger set) since they don't get penalized? And how do you tell how much evasion a set of DBs grants when you can't see the change it has anywhere (or can you?)

to see how much evasion db's add you convert the plus to the xp level for that evasion effect. add that to your total evasion xp, after penalties, and then convert the total xp number back into an evasion effect.

the example in the wiki is a 30 evasion plus 30 db's. both of those have about 43k evasion xp. adding the two together gives you 86k evasion xp which converts back to an effective evasion of 39.

As EBs add to the evasion skill directly, that new level of evasion is subject to the non dex 40% penalty.

As dude stated correctly use the table in the wiki to calculate the xp equivalent of DB and add that to the effective evasion (after the dex penalty if appropriate) to find the new xp level. Then convert that to the new evasion level.

However, DBs are not a "clear winner of choice".

DBs get very expensive over +100. To get to +100 is about 16M but +200 is about 75M NW. That adds a lot to your PR which can certainly effect your fight rewards.

Also, the evasion given by DBs are not multiplied in ranged rounds like the evasion skill.

Of course, if your using a bow, you have to use DBs or have no evasion.

Ok, thanks Dudemus, I didn't know that the + on the DBs is directly related to that chart. So ya can calculate the bonus DBs give, but can you see the result on the screen anywhere in number form?

The total evasion on your battle report is the final evasion number after all calcuations are made.

True about them being costly and when you say possibly effect fight rewards, Ranger, do you mean only if they push you over your encumberance or does it have to do with the PR weight?

challenge bonus is determined by opponent's score vs your pr. that is probably what he meant.

Oh good lord *blinded by the lightbulb*, thank you both very much. Totally got it now. My DB's were too small to see a change in the evasion on the battle report when I equipped/unequipped them.. upgraded a little to the point (using the chart) where it went over the current level, and it increased by one. Wow... seriously thanks to you both, this has been an ongoing thing with me trying to figure out. Right as rain now.

Yes,

I chiefly meant due to a higher PR you gain by these boots. My DBs add over 200k MPR to Heroes.

But Dude also has a good point about ENC. When I was a 4 minion character, at 4M MPR, I had a very hard time with ENC load using my weapons, armor and DBs.

So maybe you guys can answer a PR question I've always wondered.. Is the added + from naming items considered as a + increase to the PR weight? I know the bonus from naming is what's important, but that's something I've always been curious about.

No, naming items does not increase your pr weight. So it is a good way to get ahead without increasing your pr.

Which is why naming base items when you start a new character is a great idea. (Wow, aren't we such a great team!)

When thinking about training Dex to avoid the penalty... does anyone do that? I'm trying to see why it would benefit doing so rather than just going straight evasion. Also, if you did beat the penalty... and you are junctioned to a familiar, will the familiar lose the penalty as well, even though you aren't tweaking the familiar's dex?

Kevlar, in answer to your question I am training dex on my minion who is junctioning over evasion and yes the familiar loses the penalty as well as the main minion. I also train it because it gives me the dex advantage against some of those tanks and severely reduces their cth if I do.

Here is a post by Shade about evasion, dexterity and training of dexterity with evasion.

http://www.carnageblender.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002m3x

I remember sorta when Shade posted that but I didn't know how to handle it, didn't know what I do now. Was an excellent read, thanks for looking that up.

Overall,

In my opinion only,

With the 40% penalty, I would say it is best to train evasion and dexterity equally, if on a mage or enchanter. On a tank, things change as you want likely a high dexterity.

Yes, your evasion level will be a bit lower, but perhaps you can compensate for that with less dex based hits.