Understanding Evasion and Dexterity (in General)


AdminShade May 26 2009 12:24 PM EDT

Just so I get how both of them work, I'm going to make a comparison based on experience trained vs effect.

I am not taking into account the puny 20 DX a minion starts with, and I'm also not taking into account the 84 DX it costs to train a base Evasion.



1.2 mil experience trained, all in Evasion:
Evasion (100,000) with an effect of 42.
But 40% penalty so Evasion (60,000) with an effect of 34.

1.2 mil experience trained, half in evasion and half in DX:
Evasion (50,000) & DX: 50,000
Evasion is not greater than DX so full effect of 32.

1.2 mil experience trained, 75% in evasion and 25% in DX:
Evasion (75,000) & DX: 25,000
Evasion up to 25,000 works 100%. Evasion from 25,001 to 75,000 works at 60%
This makes 25,000 + 30,000 = 55,000 levels which makes an effect of 33.

Wow, somehow I am surprised at these small differences. Let me finish this post and make a new one with lots of more experience trained...

AdminShade May 26 2009 12:40 PM EDT

12 mil experience trained, all in Evasion:
Evasion (1,000,000) with an effect of 106.
But 40% penalty so Evasion (600,000) with an effect of 87.

12 mil experience trained, half in evasion and half in DX:
Evasion (500,000) & DX: 500,000
Evasion is not greater than DX so full effect of 80.

12 mil experience trained, 75% in evasion and 25% in DX:
Evasion (750,000) & DX: 250,000
Evasion up to 250,000 works 100%. Evasion from 250,001 to 75,0000 works at 60%
This makes 250,000 + 300,000 = 550,000 levels which makes an effect of 84.

I am even more surprised by these amounts... Wow...

QBRanger May 26 2009 1:27 PM EDT

I think that the penalty, as it stands, makes it more efficient to train equal dex and evasion.

You lose a few levels of evasion but gain perhaps a bit in the minus to BTH, which DBs and evasion cannot cut into.

AdminShade May 26 2009 2:10 PM EDT

That's exactly what I was thinking about...

I currently have 24 million Experience trained into Evasion.
I was wondering what effect it would have for me to train another 12 million experience in it.

I'd be getting a 3,000,000 level Evasion, minus 40% penalty making 1.8 mil level, making a 135 Evasion in effect.

Training 1.2 mil DX however, would make me get 1.2 + (60% of 0.8 or 0.48) = 1.68 mil level Evasion in effect. This would be 131 Evasion, almost 132 even.



That's only a 3 point difference but a gain of 1.2 mil DX. Quite enough to resist a lot of multi minion low DX Tanks...

QBRanger May 26 2009 2:14 PM EDT

And maybe lower BTH vs some higher dexterity tanks.

AdminShade May 26 2009 2:53 PM EDT

Exactly my point!

Also, When changing over to my 2 minion character build, I will have 25% more DX bonus than I currently have, that's adding 25% more Evasion as well as raw DX to my character.

That's a total bonus of 35% to my Evasion! (25% + 40% of 25%)

Colonel Custard [SeeD] May 26 2009 3:06 PM EDT

"Training 1.2 mil DX however, would make me get 1.2 + (60% of 0.8 or 0.48) = 1.68 mil level Evasion in effect. This would be 131 Evasion, almost 132 even."

These numbers looked wrong to me, but I couldn't figure out what it was, at first.

If you're training 12 mil EXP, you'd be getting 1 mil DX, and not 1.2, correct? So your numbers should be:
1 + (60% of 1) = 1.6 mil

That would actually be around 129 Evasion.

Still a good deal, though.

Sickone May 26 2009 3:08 PM EDT

Let's not forget that high DX and slightly lower evasion has a much better chance of avoiding more hits than "just evasion".
Anybody who trains evasion should train DX in roughly equal amounts... depending on circumstances, higher DX could even allow you to avoid more hits than higher evasion would.

QBRanger May 26 2009 3:10 PM EDT

What???

Mages and enchanters training evasion to stop tanks???

I thought that idea was ridiculed long ago.

Zenai May 26 2009 3:34 PM EDT

It was Ranger but that doesn't make it any less effective not just in theory but in use. Many simply dumped some DBs, or EGs to solve the bth problem and focused on making them hit harder with full Mage Regalia. So much for that now that people like you have such massive +'s on their weapons/bows XD

QBRanger May 26 2009 3:35 PM EDT

Actually the discussion was not for the PTH, but learning dexterity to eliminate BTH.

For which some people stated learning dexterity is a wrong choice they should have to make.

Of which I disagreed.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] May 26 2009 3:41 PM EDT

It will only stop being the wrong choice for anyone other than a Tank when Dexterity stops increasing Tank damage.

Take away increasing the number of hits landed by Dex, then it's an equal stat for everyone to train (of course ignoring the stat boosting Tank gear for Dex, that no Mage/Enchanter would be wearing either...)

QBRanger May 26 2009 3:42 PM EDT

Why would an enchanter not wear an EC? It is the only dex boosting equipment my tank uses.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] May 26 2009 3:52 PM EDT

I thought you didn't want to use DBs. What else is a Tank going to use over EB, unless it's CML and you're going Heavy, which isn't suited to Dex/Evasion anyway.

An Enchanter would have nothing else to use than EC, if they aren't wearing a Tattoo, as the CoI doesn't increase Enchantments, like the AG, giving an E no other choice than EGs either. So sure, E's could probably be tricked out in Elven gear,, if you really want to set an Encanter up for Learning Evasion and Dex in addition to thier enchantments. But then it might be worth more thinking about the Evasion from a RoBF, which would at least suck up the Cloak slot.

But A Mage would be silly to use a EC over a CoI if they had a free cloak slot. Same for Gloves and Boots. And no E would want to either lose the DBs or Spellboosters (or BoF) for EB.

Tanks also get the option for the ToA for more Dex, which no E/Mage (Unless you're JW running another ELBow/CoC Mage...) would want to use, as you waste the STR/PTH portion.

Tanks just get more from the Elven Gear (and DEX) than anyone else.

QBRanger May 26 2009 3:56 PM EDT

With the exbow, a tank almost has to use DBs.

Otherwise your toast in 1-2 hits.

Yes, the TOA boosts dexterity quite a lot, however it uses the tattoo slot for a character.

I will say it again,

If a minion wants to try to be immune to tanks, evasion/DBs alone will not and should not do it.

They should train dexterity.

BTH hits in melee are either 140 or 160%. In missile 140-200% in the last 3 missile rounds. In the first 3, it is at least 30% less.

So either learn dexterity or take those 1-2 hits and try to live through it.

Just as tanks have to do with magic. But tanks have no option to try to make magic miss all the time. They always hit. And with the NSC, AMF is less effective than I should be.

AdminShade May 27 2009 11:26 AM EDT

Warfish Tamerlane

I did mean 1.2 mil DX, being more than 12 mil Experience though.

AdminShade May 27 2009 11:28 AM EDT

If you're training 12 mil EXP, you'd be getting 1 mil DX, and not 1.2, correct? So your numbers should be:
1 + (60% of 1) = 1.6 mil

Currently I have 2 mil level Evasion so this calculation would be right indeed after training 1 mil DX.

AdminShade May 27 2009 11:31 AM EDT

GL and Ranger, we're not talking about tanks using Elven items. We're not even talking about a mage using them, instead I am talking about my Enchanter using it...
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