GA is the bane of my existence. (in General)

RaptorX October 26 2009 9:42 AM EDT

Strat question - GA criticism. What can be done to limit GA that I am not already doing? Untrain all DX and ST? This seems silly since I have 2 enchanters already throwing up DM and HP - but a Tank does damage - that is his main purpose, to have to train so much HP on him seems ludicrous. GA kills my one real damage dealer and game over. Ugh! I think GA is too powerful and maybe Has been main cause of eliminating all but 1 minion tank teams from competition. Well most of those also. The rules now seem to be saying; you have to be a Mage and a RoBF or you are screwed. What can I do? Please help.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] October 26 2009 9:43 AM EDT

A total rework of how GA works should do it.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 26 2009 9:46 AM EDT

"to have to train so much HP on him seems ludicrous."

what ratio of xp do you have in hp, dex, str and archery?

RaptorX October 26 2009 9:50 AM EDT

Hit Points 413,592
Strength 1,269,247 151,153
Dexterity 888,407 224,682
Archery 253,854 195,273 1.00 0.77

I know his damage/HP ratio is high, but I can't do enough damage without it. A PL wall doesn't help. I can't siphon off his GA damage in any way as far as I know. right?

Total rework of GA would be nice! Not likely, but nice.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 26 2009 9:55 AM EDT

is your tank larger than the rest of your team or have you had 4 minions the whole time?

Joel October 26 2009 10:20 AM EDT

I would untrain all HP on those DM minions and put it straight into the DM they're training. That might be enough to get rid of more GA. Also, to stay alive longer, I train more HP and don't put any on Str. or Dex. If you're doubtful about how well this would work, then just look at my guy: 1/2 HP and 1/2 DM with a ToA. I have maintained a 100% Challenge Bonus for about 15 days now, and, at the moment, I have 5 opponents in my favorites; all of them give me 100% Challenge Bonus!

RaptorX October 26 2009 10:22 AM EDT

They are roughly all the same size. I knew I could not afford minions at higher levels. I think I had two minions till about 66k then I bought the other two. I realize that was my first big mistake. I may need to start over to have any shot at top 25 of MVP. But I don't have the money for that now.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 26 2009 10:28 AM EDT

i am no expert on tanks, but i think it may be very difficult to do one with that kind of xp dilution going on.

i definitely understand about getting all your kill slots from the start as that is what i have done with my last two ncb's but your strategy has to be fairly carefully chosen to work with four equal minions.

RaptorX October 26 2009 10:29 AM EDT

The DM minions are meat shields and keep my Tank alive into Melee rounds - if they don't use GA. They also do double damage with decay in melee if they survive that long. That is how I used to beat you. :) But I think I would be toast if I removed HP from them. MM would take out my Tank in 3 rounds. (Like it does now in 4 -5 if they have a really large one.)

RaptorX October 26 2009 10:34 AM EDT

'carefully chosen' is an interesting choice of words. :) I think it may be near impossible. I was going to go with AMF and GA minion, a AS minion and a wall and a Tank. -- but this seemed to be a better choice at the time. IDK. I have a few 100% bonus people on my fight list - but more people are using GA so I have less and less choices as I advance.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 26 2009 10:45 AM EDT

"The DM minions are meat shields and keep my Tank alive into Melee rounds"

If you live to Melee, then you could consider picking up VA to lessen the impact of GA.

RaptorX October 26 2009 10:51 AM EDT

I will try a few of these changes. Thanks for your comments. And keep them coming, I will check back later.

Demigod October 26 2009 10:54 AM EDT

Because of XP dilution, you're not going to be able to go toe-to-toe with other tanks, so I wouldn't worry about loading too much into dexterity. The amount you have right now is more than enough for non-tank teams, so it might be better to stop growing dex for while and focus more into HP. Your ToA's + should help somewhat.

Sickone October 26 2009 10:56 AM EDT

Your character has a MPR of 1,012,160 - that means a grand total of roughly 3,832,916 trained levels.
Your minions have a grand total of 1,955,418 HP, that's 1,955,338
levels trained, a bit over 51% of your XP !
You also have some evasion, some archery and some GA trained yourself, plus god knows how much extra ST/DX on your tank minion.

All in all, I really doubt your total DM is anything to write home about, probably not even 30% of your total trainable levels.
OBVIOUSLY, against people of higher MPR and/or against people of similar MPR that use a RoS, you will have next to no chance.

Me, personally, I am a single archer of 15,694,554 total trainable levels right now, and I have DM trained to a raw level of 6,266,491 (casts as 4,750,000 effect), so roughly 40% of my trainable levels... and I wouldn't even dream complaining I can't beat the EDs of people significantly higher in MPR compared to me, nor people of similar MPR that use a RoS.

Wraithlin October 26 2009 11:02 AM EDT

The vampiric is a good recomendation for diminishing the blow of GA, however I don't suggest training it as you will be very weak against DM yourself that way. You'll even damage yourself with that.

I recommend just getting the MH which will give you 20% reduction in GA, that combined with your DM should allow you do deal with with it alot better.

Also if you spend some cash on the forging of your items on the tank, the +X on the armor pieces reduce your GA damage, which again will give you a higher damage buffer.

RaptorX October 26 2009 1:43 PM EDT

Thanks again. BTW - just reached the 1 mill MPR mark this weekend. So I am excited about that. Though I know I wasted a few weeks or I would be doing much better. But I am currently catching up to some I used to be able to get 100% bonus on so I am getting less bonus. So I am trying to retain a high bonus on at least a few. Just harder at this level with my strategy. Those a little above me in MPR are just so much stronger than I am, doing huge MM or Fireball damage and then I have always been victim to the decent % GA trainers etc. It is frustrating. Thanks for the options. You are all a glimmer of hope in a anti-tank world. :)

RaptorX October 26 2009 2:59 PM EDT

I am renting a few items now that have greater + but that doesn't help much. I am renting a larger BG and AoM and TSA, but AoM + doesn't help does it?

QBJohnnywas October 26 2009 3:05 PM EDT

Train some more HP on your tank. It's an obvious thing but the more HP he has the better he will do against all opponents, including GA.

But otherwise, if your DM isn't fizzling it, then you should just try and avoid GA teams.

QBJohnnywas October 26 2009 3:08 PM EDT

Additionally, you might want to reconsider your second tank and instead use the money you're spending there on your ToA tank's gears. Focus your damage. At the moment you're vulnerable on two fronts to GA.

AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] October 26 2009 3:16 PM EDT

ADMIN EDIT: Please spell check the name of your title before posting.

RaptorX October 26 2009 6:58 PM EDT

Sorry Verifex, Admin and QB now Huh? That's cool. Hm, I checked it and what is misspelled? 'the bane of my existence' is a real phrase as far as i can tell. ???
Anyway, I retained a Enchanter all into DM and didn't lose anyone off my fight list yet. Maybe that will help for starters. Thanks.

QBRanger October 26 2009 7:00 PM EDT

GA unless you use a RBF or very heavy on the DM front will continue to be a problem.

I have over 14M HP and RoS characters with less MPR beat me.

You have to either get a lot more AC or just live with not beating RoS characters unless you go to a RBF.

AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] October 26 2009 7:00 PM EDT

That's because I changed it man, it was "bain of my existence".

RaptorX October 26 2009 7:05 PM EDT

Oh, I see, you probably fixed it already. Thanks, I probably misspelled existence with an 'a' sorry.

Joel October 26 2009 7:25 PM EDT

A balance of high damage and high DM is what allows me to maintain such a good fight list. I can do 600k+ damage max in a round with 3 hits. I have nearly 2 million effect of DM. I also have enough HP to make it to round 7, usually, so I can deal more damage at the beginning of ranged with my Elbow. I've never used a melee weapon, and I probably won't use one until much later. I never fear GA and I massacre teams that rely too much on AS. You mentioned that you want to kill tanks though? I would change your strat quite a bit to maximize your effectiveness against tanks. Anyway, I do think exp. dilution is a big problem, but those extra minions could make for great DM kill slots. You may not be able to beat as many opponents as you used to, but you can fight much higher than you used to. Just drop everything trained on your tank, except HP, and put it all into HP. Also, since you have two cornuthaums, I really recommend you max out DM on those minions, because, since Corns boost on a percentage basis, you'll gain even more DM if you have a higher level DM. Doing this won't help you, at all, against tanks though. It will just help you stand a chance against ED heavy teams with GA and maybe even be able to beat RoS teams, once you get close to their MPR.

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] October 26 2009 10:59 PM EDT

"It will just help you stand a chance against ED heavy teams with GA and maybe even be able to beat RoS teams, once you get close to their MPR."

Not Quite True Joel as MPR has little to do with the fact that their Tattoo may be Smaller than their MTL, which is the case more often than not. Here is your Measurement RaptorX:

From the Wiki: Offers resistance vs. your enemy's Dispel Magic(DM) to the whole team. The resistance is about 40% of the level of the tattoo.

Wat Tyler

Is he to be your Evasion Minion in this whole setup? If that is so only have enough Str to hold the Armor.
Train all Dex and Evasion..... HP to taste. I would suggest though that you invest in DBs it will help a great deal with other Melee/Ranged Based Teams. More with this Minion than your main Damage Dealer as Evasion is the core of what he needs.

Displacement Boots and Stacking
Think of the + on DB as being a certain Evasion effect. Since each effect has a certain level, DB at +126 have an Evasion "level" of 1.5 million (see effect level chart below). That is the level that stacks with your learned Evasion, yielding some new effect. For example, a character who has trained 1.5 million levels of Evasion, for an effect of 126, wearing +126 Displacement Boots will not have a final Evasion effect of 252. Rather, the +126 from the boots will be counted as 1.5 million additional Evasion levels, meaning that the final Evasion level would be calculated as 3 million, which yields en effect (from the below chart) in the range of 166 or 167 Evasion. Note that the evasion level afforded by the boots does not need to be matched by DX to give full effect, while trained Evasion does. If trained Evasion is not matched by Dexterity, only 60% of the unmatched Evasion level will be used to calculate the final level while stacking

Joselyn the Enchantress

Seems to be steady to me if your Decay is base and is staying that way otherwise you are crippling yourself. Focus as much as possible on one thing.


Is alright with your set up but if you want to even him out focus on HP and Dex for now. I would suggest though that you invest in DBs it will help a great deal with other Melee/Ranged Based Teams but not a requirement though for it to work.

Chauser Rhetoric Dragon

Armor Proficiency, Decay, Dispel Magic, Guardian Angel <=====Pick something bro....there is way to much on this minion to train. AP is great it takes out the Penalties for a Spellcaster so I would keep it. Once again is this Decay Base or are you training it? DM and GA on one minion? That is in my opinion a no go bro, the Dilution to make either work in the way you need is just too great you need to focus.

Overall the Problem that I see with your Team is quite simply Exp Dilution/Lack of Exp Focus. You have 4 Minions and the same amount of Exp that other Teams get for 1,2 or 3 minions is being divided up with yours in 4 directions. You have a lot less Playing room in the Exp field than everyone else. You are not going to be able to beat everything/everyone pick your Target Group and Focus on beating them.
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