A little more love for the GoM? (in General)


AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 17 2009 3:59 AM EST

These things still suck. ;)

I don't think anyone actively uses them, and even Mr C is buying them for less Katana's!

(CB1)WFP November 17 2009 5:36 AM EST

agreed. maybe make the plus to hit work for all weapons or just all melee or something that would make them much more useful

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] November 17 2009 6:18 AM EST

Those were actually "on the chopping block"...a couple months ago ;)

AdminNightStrike November 17 2009 7:19 AM EST

Yeah, I asked for suggestions, but then life happened. What was that old thread?

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] November 17 2009 7:25 AM EST

http://www.carnageblender.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002qBg

I think this is it.

AdminNightStrike November 17 2009 7:49 AM EST

Looks like I wanted to go with Ranger's idea of adding the NW to the weapon PTH NW.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 17 2009 8:05 AM EST

Ah! I thought I remembered talking about this! ;)

To carry on that old thread;

"The main Problem with having the GoM as Tank Glovs, is that they have to compete with Tulkas (for Melee), Belegs (for Archers) and Helms (for UC).

Just giving PTH isn't good enough. PTH is a damage increase, and the three above provide much more for thier respective specs than a GoM would.

It was designed to give an option versus the old Evasion. It's no longer necessary. If you up the PTH in any way to make them better for Damage than the above three, no one wold then ever use Tulkas, Belegs or Helms, and everyone would opt for the GoM.

If you want the GoM to stay, it needs to be either designed not to provide a damage increase (which is really all PTH is), or designed to work with something other than Melee, Archery or UC."

That being said, the current only use for them are on GS/Haste based Enchanter Tanks.

So maybe change the GoM totally to support this. Or remove them.

Just getting them to add PTH (even if it's NW to +) is really redundant.

Unless the whole Base Chance to Hit mechanics change.

Wraithlin November 17 2009 8:09 AM EST

Due to thier name, I think they should provide you with 100g when you lose a battle to someone else. Bonus cash for being so merciful.

kevlar November 17 2009 8:11 AM EST

I'm for removing them. New Supporter Item >:)

AdminTitan November 17 2009 8:27 AM EST

I say leave them just the way they are. They are nice for the tourney. Worry about adding new things to the game. If this doesn't fill a niche you wanted filled, make a new item to fill that niche.

kevlar November 17 2009 8:31 AM EST

^what Titan said and make them not "rare" along with the elven stilleto, spawn in the normal stores?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 17 2009 8:33 AM EST

Do we really want 'tourny only' items?

Like the GoM, or even lesser Tattoos?

Tournies can always create specific stuff, if it's necessary anyway.

AdminTitan November 17 2009 8:34 AM EST

They're not only tourney items. They're great beginners items. I know most NUBs don't take advantage of them. But, they're there and they work great.

Admiralkiller November 17 2009 8:35 AM EST

I agree leave them or change them slightly but don't take em away..for items = more options. (think Diablo2/WOW/etc) If you want add gloves and let these be.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 17 2009 8:39 AM EST

Beginner items? Like the Tulwar?

Who actually uses them any more? NUB 'new' users either pass them up (as that provide next to no impact on the game) all together, or ignore them on the way to getting a 'proper' glove for thier strategy.

Do we really need beginner items, low level dross that no one uses, that's only attractive to new users, who shouldn't invest in them anyway, as they'll upgrade out of them so quickly as to make them irrelevent.

Now if the Bonus was changed, and low down growth wasn't so rapid, then maybe we would. Currently, no. Same reason we don't (and haven't) needed all the weapons we currently have, and haven't needed them for a very long time...

If the GoM are outclassed in thier category by another 'rare' (as they are by Tulks, Helms or Belegs depending on your setup), then there's really no use for them.

kevlar November 17 2009 8:41 AM EST

A Pair of Gloves of Mercy [0] $2,001 <---last pair sold

A Pair of Leather Gloves [1] (+6) $3,309

I say move them to the regular stores and out of the rares, along with the elven stilleto. NUBs rely on that form of purchasing equipment in the beginning anyways.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 17 2009 8:41 AM EST

A new user would be better suited Renting a proper glove (as Novice is showing with his item rentals for new players), than wasting the cash to purchase and upgrade, low level useless rares.

AdminTitan November 17 2009 8:43 AM EST

I disagree, within the first few days, you can afford a pair of GoMs. It could be weeks before you could afford a pair of Tulka's or a month before BGs. But, with the GoMs, you could just throw together $27k and get another +20 on your weapon, assuming you're using a short edged weapon. Although, there's a spot where I wouldn't mind changing it, make it all 1h weapons.

kevlar November 17 2009 8:44 AM EST

Hmmm 2,000 is a waste of cash? And +PTH does benefit newly entry tanks doesn't it?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 17 2009 9:06 AM EST

A Set of Tulkas' Gauntlets
[6] (+12) $248,438 $15,000 7 days

;)

QBJohnnywas November 17 2009 9:11 AM EST

The GoM and Menelvegorian Cape are too narrow in what they're useful for. In addition to maybe giving them some other bonus broaden the weapons range that can use them and they might see more use.

QBJohnnywas November 17 2009 9:13 AM EST

Katana
Vorpal Blade
Elven Stiletto
Bastard Sword
Claymore
Broad Sword
Long Sword
Tulwar
Cutlass
Sabre
Rapier
Main Gauche
Dagger

I mean, come on, what of those are going to see much use? It's no wonder nobody wants to use the GoM and the cloak....

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 17 2009 9:15 AM EST

I still don't think opening them up to all wepaons will help (well the gloves).

As extra PTH is just extra damage, and the existing gloves beat them hands down.

Also, there's not so much emphasis on PTH these days, with the unreduceable DEX based chance to hit playing a more important role.

I don't think any Tank would ditch a Tulks for extra PTH... The Tulks give damage anyway, and increase ENC. And no UC Minion is going to drop the Helms. GoM would have to give a hell of a lot of PTH for them to outdamge Belegs.

Especially if we move to the Gloves NW adding to PTH instead of thier +.

QBJohnnywas November 17 2009 9:17 AM EST

Yeah, that's the problem with weapons - I gave up the BoM in exchange for the SoC (as I'd given up the SoC for the BoM earlier) but I didn't actually lose damage necessarily, despite the lower strength, I just increased it in other areas.

I can't think of one instance outside of that where less damage overall is better.

gols090 [forge of me] November 17 2009 2:52 PM EST

Going by the name, how about changing it so that the minion equipped with it can do more damage but cannot do the last hit, the death blow, to an enemy. I'm not good with balancing numbers so I leave that up to you. This way the extra damage doesn't make overpowered tank since there needs to be another damage dealer. A base DD enchanter would get AMF'd down; a minitank would be horrible vs other tanks.
Thinking back, reducing to 1 life is too much. Maybe reducing down to 50%, then each + would increase that lower limit by 1%. I.e Tank wearing base GoM can only hit a minion to 50% of its life, then moves on to next minion. Tank wearing +20 GoM can hit a minion down to 30% of its life, then move on to the next minion. Idk what to do once all enemy minions are 30% or below, but you guys have ideas too ;)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 17 2009 3:29 PM EST

Interesting idea! :D

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] November 17 2009 6:10 PM EST

mercy, mercy...these gloves need some lovin'!

Wraithlin November 17 2009 6:13 PM EST

Gloves of mercy let you dual wield.

Added bonus, when using daggers the combat log has "snick, snick"

Lord Bob November 17 2009 6:15 PM EST

"I'm for removing them."

Agreed.

(CB1)WFP November 17 2009 6:22 PM EST

interesting thought of the dual weild

Lord Bob November 17 2009 6:22 PM EST

Dual Wield will not happen in CB.

Wraithlin November 17 2009 6:24 PM EST

There is no reason to implement dual wield, you'd have to nerf the damage to ensure that it's not op, so it would have to evenly balance with the current system. If the damage is the same whether you dual wield or not, then why waste the time coding it?

QBRanger November 17 2009 6:34 PM EST

Just get rid of this item as well as the MeC.

Both were designed when evasion was super powerful as a choice tanks would have to try to hit evasion minions.

As we all noticed, they were not successful in overcoming the uberness that was evasion back then.

Therefore, there is no need for these items except as space wasters and drop fillers.

Rawr November 17 2009 8:27 PM EST

Make GoM the heavy armor Glove, and lower the armor of TGs. This will keep HG's the viable choice for UC, TG's for melee damage tanks, and then GoM for Walls.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 18 2009 3:34 AM EST

As for Dual Wielding, we already have it.

Bloodlust.

Does the same tihng, with the added uber bonus (you don't need to spend extra money, nor use up more WA/ENC) of not needing a physical second weapon.

DW cannot exist in CB as there's no reason to land distinct hits (as there's no 'on hit' stuff in CB), and any extra damage gained from DW is already available in BL.

Either DW would do more damage than BL, and BL would become redundant. Or it would do less, and no one would DW.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 18 2009 3:40 AM EST

Oh and;

Details
For sale by rrowland
ended


Net worth: $2,446
Net worth is a measure of how much has been spent on upgrades, not of market value.


Help: Pair of Gloves of Mercy

Bids
$2,000 Central Bank ( Mr. Chairman )
$1,000 (max bid: $1,000) bid by GentlemanLoser ( Sin-Eater )

LoL /sob

Adios Muchachos November 18 2009 9:16 AM EST


From: auctioneer (November 17 10:23 PM EST)
You won A Pair of Gloves of Mercy [0] for 1 -- details here

Wraithlin November 18 2009 9:30 AM EST

"As for Dual Wielding, we already have it.

Bloodlust.

Does the same tihng, with the added uber bonus (you don't need to spend extra money, nor use up more WA/ENC) of not needing a physical second weapon.

DW cannot exist in CB as there's no reason to land distinct hits (as there's no 'on hit' stuff in CB), and any extra damage gained from DW is already available in BL.

Either DW would do more damage than BL, and BL would become redundant. Or it would do less, and no one would DW."

Having two weapons and training bloodlust isn't even close to the same thing. One you can boost with USD, the other you have to dilute your XP to do. Although I do agree with your statement of, it's not needed due to the lack of on-hit abilities.

QBJohnnywas November 18 2009 9:32 AM EST

Nah, GL's right - it's the same effect for half the price.

Wraithlin November 18 2009 9:46 AM EST

So you're saying if you had two people:

One trained HP/STR/DEX and dual wields

the other trained:

HP/STR/DEX/Bloodlust and uses a 2h weapon

That the second guy basically has two weapons equipped?

Wow, that's just horrible logic. You gave up some of HP, STR, or DEX to get the bloodlust if not all of them, and although you got the added bonus of more damage, you lost some of another stat that you need in certain circumstances. While the other guy gets to focus on only 3 stats and he can pump his weapons with USD.

Although this does just demonstrate further the community's rather illogical dislike of items that do similar effects even if they are different slots. I really have no clue how we ever got multiple elven pieces, as soon as you got wind of the second one you should of all said "we already have elven boots, we don't need elven gloves"

Same can be said for all the STR enchancing gear, and the ED/EO/Spell damage gear.

You all realize there are already multiple items in the game with similar effects don't you? Why all that opposition to furthering a system that is already in place?

QBJohnnywas November 18 2009 9:59 AM EST

I suspect Jon would make dual wield a skill and it would come with built in damage penalties to stop it being OP. It would also for most people come with a built in cap because of the cost of boosting weapons, and you wouldn't be able to use two handed weapons in those slots.

But I never understood why people want it in a text based game. The only extra choice it offers is on the equip page and in the play by play at the end of a battle it would only add a few lines to each round.

Wraithlin November 18 2009 12:05 PM EST

If items that had more of an on hit effect, like an enchantment system for weapons was brought into play. Then there might be a reason for it. As it is, the only items that have on hit stuff are like the morgul's, but there is no reason to have more than one of these items, since it's just the same effect each time. Possibly if there were swords/maces whatever similar to the Ax and Ex bow, then someone might want to dual wield those so they can get both effects for instance.

NooneKnows November 18 2009 12:18 PM EST

dual wielding ranged weapons now?

...should we add that to the retarded suggestions faq, or is it even necessary?

QBRanger November 18 2009 12:34 PM EST

Per the FAQ of things unlikely to be enacted:

Q: Since CB already distinguishes between one-handed and two-handed weapons, why not allow equipping two one-handed weapons?
A: Because two good 1HW like an ELS or maybe even two claymores would be massively overpowered. Getting even one extra attack would be way more benefit than using a shield or a 2HW, so a lot of gameplay choice would be lost (because one option is far more powerful than the others).

Now, we could make twoweapon a Skill, but then we'd get rid of Bloodlust and only people who could afford to upgrade two weapons would have that choice. I think it's better the way it is.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 18 2009 4:25 PM EST

"That the second guy basically has two weapons equipped?

Wow, that's just horrible logic. You gave up some of HP, STR, or DEX to get the bloodlust if not all of them, and although you got the added bonus of more damage, you lost some of another stat that you need in certain circumstances. While the other guy gets to focus on only 3 stats and he can pump his weapons with USD."

No it's not. ;)

Dual Wielding would be a Skill, that would cost XP. It's not something we'd get for free.

BL gives you an extra 60% Damage.

If you could just equip a second weapon (Assuming it was of equal size to your first weapon), that would give you 100% damage increase.

Now, no one would *ever* use BL. (Ignoring the ENC and Cost Penalties)

So you drop DW down to having a damagepenalty of the of hand attack.

Now either;

1) It does 60% or less extra damage. No one uses it becuase BL doesn't suck up and more NW or ENC.

2) It does more damage than BL. In which case no one trains BL.

The only time it would ever be useful is if it did more damage than BL, but ENC and the NW-PR link was so strick people would choose to use BL over it. Then no one owuld use DW.

That's the problem. BL already covers extra attack damage. It is in essence like using a second identical copy of your equipped weapon.

(This is also grossly ignoring the problem balancing 1H Base Chance to Hit with DW, versus the substantially lover BCTH of 2H Weapons. As part of the DW 'skill' you could always lower the BCTH of 1H weapons to that of 2H, but then you still have the problems above)

We'd never get the option to equip a second 1H weapon for free. That's just plain silly. ;)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 18 2009 4:27 PM EST

"Although this does just demonstrate further the community's rather illogical dislike of items that do similar effects even if they are different slots. I really have no clue how we ever got multiple elven pieces, as soon as you got wind of the second one you should of all said "we already have elven boots, we don't need elven gloves""

That's illogical. Different slot, they don't compete with each other.

I have a dislike of all the useless wepaons e have, but there's nothing illogical about it.

There are all (bar Whips/Dagger and the useful Rares) utterly redundant and nothing more than a waste of space.

kevlar November 18 2009 4:37 PM EST

"Dual Wielding would be a Skill, that would cost XP. It's not something we'd get for free."

not to mention you would have to sacrifice the benefits from a shield (two handed penalty) being both hands are used on the weapons. Or maybe not be able to equip a shield at all with that kind of skill trained.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 18 2009 5:01 PM EST

To be fair Kev, it would only probably inccur the 2H penalty.

As the same logic would apply. ;)

Wraithlin November 18 2009 5:27 PM EST

"That's illogical. Different slot, they don't compete with each other."

So by your arguement, since you failed to follow the full thread, since I (even though it was jokingly) suggested that GoM allow you to dual wield, it doesn't actually compete with bloodlust and therefore you don't have a problem with it.

Wraithlin November 18 2009 5:29 PM EST

However you are correct that under the current, lack of on-hit ability system, dual wielding as a skill is a complete waste of time.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 18 2009 5:35 PM EST

Ah.

The Gloves and not a trained skill (like it's been mentioned as many times before.

My bad.

In that case, it's an even bigger no, as you could couple DW with BL.

And Tulks wouldn't stand a chance. Not only that, but Tank damage would go insanely high.
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