About UC. (in General)


Drama [Just for fun] December 9 2009 7:44 PM EST

If you had these aspect to UC, would it help it out?


1)UC attack can't miss.
2)Player training UC doesn't need to train DEX.
3)Number of hits is determined with the level of UC.
4)10% damage is added for each successive hit in one round.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] December 9 2009 7:46 PM EST

Numbers 1-3 all are already more or less in effect. 4 might be a way to make UC work better.

Rawr December 9 2009 7:47 PM EST

I like number 4!

QBRanger December 9 2009 7:52 PM EST

Number 4 is promising.

Zenai December 9 2009 7:54 PM EST

hmmm I like them all to be honest. It would be a breath of fresh air to the UC Table to get a buff like this :-D

{WW]Nayab [Cult of the Valaraukar] December 9 2009 8:05 PM EST

number 4 is definitely a good concept

TheHatchetman December 10 2009 2:01 AM EST

awww, 4 was supposed to be on an axe :P

kevlar December 10 2009 2:42 AM EST

#4 would be cool, we talked about combos for UC a LONG time ago... and that would be right in line with that. Maybe give some randomness to it, kick/punch/roundhouse/final blow where each one has a different percentage... and maybe can register a rare critical hit?

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] December 10 2009 2:46 AM EST

That would be an interesting way to make UC more effective. You could have a % chance at a special attack which is determined by the UC effect.

Pwned December 10 2009 5:45 AM EST

Wouldn't this be just like my idea with weapons and armor? The % of something different happening.

AdminNightStrike December 10 2009 7:35 AM EST

4 would be great, if not for the JKF. I would love to make UC more viable, but it's very hard to do so without blowing the junctioned familiar variety even higher.

It would have to be something like an added benefit to a CG, which kind of isn't as cool.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] December 10 2009 8:04 AM EST

:(

Especially as the Gi is so underwhelemd by either a Tattoo, or a TSA.

NS, how about making UC damage linear? Is there any reason it has to remian the only non linear damage dealer in CB? Even on a Junctioned Jig.

And if a Junctioned Jig is the problem, can't we change that instead?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 10 2009 8:32 AM EST

i am not that impressed with junctioned jigs at the top. look at lightning raider for example. with the biggest tat and the biggest trained uc junctioned to it, he does okay but is far from being unbeatable. he is also being beaten by a variety of teams.

this is also one reason i favor the idea of increasing the amount of dex hits by raising that 100 cap, you don't get a free upgrade without having the dex to back it up and the jiggy's dex can always be adjusted separately.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 10 2009 8:49 AM EST

actually, i think that robf still beats out the junctioned jig hands down. the hal used to as well, i am not sure of that since the change to hal's though.

Admiralkiller December 10 2009 8:53 AM EST

Could you add this to an item to make the effect work.

Like "Blood Hungry Brass Knuckles" Every time new blood is spilled on it it gains power and allows up to 10% more damage per successive hit?

Works for UC only

Not the greatest idea because it would replace HG's but just throwing it out there :-)

QBRanger December 10 2009 9:18 AM EST

i am not that impressed with junctioned jigs at the top. look at lightning raider for example. with the biggest tat and the biggest trained uc junctioned to it, he does okay but is far from being unbeatable. he is also being beaten by a variety of teams.


I, on the other hand, am extremely impressed with the junctioned jigs at the top.

They are undefeatable by physical damage. Even the largest tank with one of the largest ELB loses to him.

It is the perfect anti-USD item.

I believe he loses to RBF and SG characters for the most part.

4 would be great, if not for the JKF. I would love to make UC more viable, but it's very hard to do so without blowing the junctioned familiar variety even higher.

Even with 10% more damage per hit, I really doubt a junctioned Jiggy would break the game any more than some current items. Right now Nem does about 600k a hit with the Jiggy. 4 hits a round would give about 250k more damage a round. Not a lot but something.

lostling December 10 2009 10:36 AM EST

combine number 4 with CGI :) poof no jkf boosted damage

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] December 10 2009 10:37 AM EST

I'm agreeing with lost here I guess... if we have to have a UC boost.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 10 2009 11:53 AM EST

They are undefeatable by physical damage.


it would be great to know who "they" are in the above quote.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 10 2009 11:58 AM EST

also which tank with the elb are we talking about here?

QBRanger December 10 2009 12:25 PM EST

They


The they is the junctioned JKF. Nobody can beat that character with any physical damage.

That includes SHD, myself and Z among other ELB users.

So I think the JKF/UC axis is doing quite fine. Yes, it is vulnerable to the RBF and DD, especially SG but who isn't.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] December 10 2009 12:28 PM EST

X-Wing gashed Kano-san with proton torpedo [1761220]

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] December 10 2009 12:37 PM EST

Yeah... although I can hit him, it's not often, he does get wins and SM without Steeds equipped (just a little preview of what's to come for me...)

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 10 2009 12:37 PM EST

his tat is about 3m levels above the large archers though right?

if zen or you switched tats with him would that make a difference, in effect is it the tat or the strat?

if you guys had equal sized tats would that happen? if he changed from a jig to an robf would he do better than now?

the fact that the largest tat in the game is junctioned to the largest uc in the game might have something to do with it rather than saying junctioned jigs are awesome and need no help.

let us look at my team perhaps for a more equal representation?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 10 2009 12:39 PM EST

The they is the junctioned JKF.


i have one, you are clearly not speaking of me with that so i will assume you mean lightning raiders team?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 10 2009 12:52 PM EST

bast's tat is closer to your tat size and is a junctioned jig, can you hit that one?

QBRanger December 10 2009 1:31 PM EST

I hit her tattoo 1 time a round.

However, she does not junction UC, which kind of defeats the purpose of the AoJ and the ability to junction skills.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 10 2009 1:52 PM EST

so it is more junctioned uc jiggy's than just junctioned jiggy's? what about the fact that your tat level is roughly 75% of lr's?

QBRanger December 10 2009 1:56 PM EST

I have 3M additional levels in dex aside from the ToA.

I also have a +234 named ELB.

How much more do I need to be able to hit that Jiggy?

I miss more than I hit now.

I would say the junctioned Jiggy is a perfect foil for all the high NW ELBs out there. As well as the exbow, high AC, the ToE, GA etc...

I would however, like number 4, be added to the CGI.

Disclaimer:

I am in no WAY, SHAPE, or FORM suggesting that the junctioned Jiggy is overpowered. It has a few foils that can be used to defeat it.

But to say a junctioned Jiggy is not impressive is not a completely right statement.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 10 2009 2:00 PM EST

how do you do against mikel's robf?

QBRanger December 10 2009 2:03 PM EST

I lose to Mikel's RBF.

I hit him 1 time in the first 4 rounds and 2 times the 5th and 6th.

Average damage is 1.02M a hit. Quite uber powerful given my x25000 ELB?

So much for the 1 hit = instakill for these uber ELBs.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 10 2009 2:08 PM EST

so if lr changed to an robf you would still lose to him. i take that as proof that it might be the tat and not the strat. you are just outgunned at only 78% of his tat level. the fact that those tats get evasion make them both a natural foil to a physical damage only team no?

i feel that the only way to see if uc junctioned jiggy's are really that impressive is to test one that is much nearer your level on a team with close to your mpr, anything else is just apples and oranges.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] December 10 2009 3:30 PM EST

Don't really know if this has been sad, don't feel like reading the rest of this nonsense. Dudemus:

his tat is about 3m levels above the large archers though right?

Now compare his NW. See which one is the larger ratio.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 10 2009 3:44 PM EST

so usd should trump mpr as well as tat levels?

QBRanger December 10 2009 4:04 PM EST

i feel that the only way to see if uc junctioned jiggy's are really that impressive is to test one that is much nearer your level on a team with close to your mpr, anything else is just apples and oranges.

When LR's tattoo was equal to mine, I still lost to him. Not even close. I hit his Jiggy 1 time a round at most.

If he went with a RBF or another tattoo, setup as he is, I would likely beat him possibly easily.

I lose to Mikel due to his massive DB.

so usd should trump mpr as well as tat levels?

I will counter: Should USD mean nothing? I guess possibly in a closed ecosystem, however, CB is not that and has never been that.

As NS stated in a chat not too long ago, if you do not like it, make your own damm game.:)

USD is here, fortunately or unfortunately. It should mean something. But there are a few high NW items built from people without any USD usage. Some close to 200M NW.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 10 2009 4:10 PM EST

setup as he is


i meant with a strat overhaul as well.

isn't mikel's massive db's plus the smaller evasion an robf user gets pretty comparable to that high of a jiggy's evasion boosted with junctioned uc though?

i never said usd shouldn't mean something but is it not very hard to equate a usd amount with 700k less mpr and 3.5m tat levels? what is that value in usd that equals those differences then?

QBRanger December 10 2009 4:34 PM EST

i meant with a strat overhaul as well.

Well that is not determinable as I have no idea what his new strat would be, what items he would use and the setup. We are typing about hypotheticals.

isn't mikel's massive db's plus the smaller evasion an robf user gets pretty comparable to that high of a jiggy's evasion boosted with junctioned uc though?


The Jiggies evasion does not counter my PTH, however Mikel's DBs eliminate it completely. The Jiggy neutralizes my BTH with its high dex while I get full BTH vs Mikel. Do they equal each other, maybe or likely.

i never said usd shouldn't mean something but is it not very hard to equate a usd amount with 700k less mpr and 3.5m tat levels? what is that value in usd that equals those differences then?


The MPR difference is 580k MPR. Which is about 12%. 12% at this level is not much to counter. And as I stated, when his Jiggy was equal to my tattoo, I still lost just using physical damage, with a 300+M ELB.

I would say the Jiggy is a great counter to physical and ELB damage. In melee, perhaps a good MoD would work wonders vs this strategy. I have yet to try it out.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 10 2009 4:36 PM EST

when you were equal were you using the hal then or the toa as now?

QBRanger December 10 2009 4:42 PM EST

I used the HF mostly, but when his tattoo was 500k more I switched to a ToA and still could not beat him.

Those 500k levels certainly would not mean the difference between winning and losing as I did not nearly enough damage to lower his PL wall minion to below 2M HP during ranged.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 10 2009 4:48 PM EST

i still think it is tat more than strat. you are certainly entitle to your opinion as well though. any tat that has inherent evasion will lend itself to being good against physical damage teams.

the fact that uc has the only linear damage model in the game and the fact that a jiggy uses the same uc table means that it cannot keep up over time. junctioned jiggy's may have made the point where they fall behind a bit later than straight uc minions, but it by no means changes their future.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] December 10 2009 4:49 PM EST

< "so usd should trump mpr as well as tat levels?"

No, NW SHOULD TRUMP IT. And, I'll defend this position to anyone. If you think this is wrong b/c Ranger got this NW from USD fix that. Don't nerf NW, that's just plain stupid, legitly stupid. Nerf USD (easier said then done I know.) But, I am tired of people using it as reason to nerf strats. That is the most absurd idea ever.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 10 2009 4:52 PM EST

how much nw then is equal to 600k mpr and 3.5m or so tat levels?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 10 2009 4:53 PM EST

and what strat am i trying to nerf here?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 10 2009 5:55 PM EST

here is a google spreadsheet i threw together to show the uc damage mod curve.

a linear curve would just be a line that for every x amount increased in uc effect you get the same y increment in damage mod.

the uc curve may stop going down at some point and hit a base level instead of approaching zero or one, but we don't have the data to tell yet and so i just used what we have in the uc table in the wiki:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AhqtN8y13_DadEl1QnlqTDd5ZzhERVRxdjVUeVp1WWc&hl=en
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