UC/JKF: Bug (in General)


AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] December 12 2009 2:54 PM EST

http://docs.google.com/View?id=ddq2dhxx_8649j33gdr

I hit with a +176 exbow

I miss with an ELS with 283 PTH Melee bonus.

The UC evasion isn't working in ranged at all?

AdminNightStrike December 12 2009 2:58 PM EST

How much is the JKF evasion?

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] December 12 2009 2:59 PM EST

I'm not sure that's been posted yet. It's the largest UC and the largest Tat.

Lochnivar December 12 2009 3:11 PM EST

I occasionally land shots on that jig
Dexterity 1,425,689;
Melee Base to-Hit 60;
Melee Bonus to-Hit 134

Nov should be able to nail him if I get the odd blow in.

QBRanger December 12 2009 3:15 PM EST

I do not think novice's point in about hitting the Jiggy in missile.

It is why does he hit in missile with less overall PTH than he does in melee.

When in melee he misses all the time.

Lochnivar December 12 2009 3:19 PM EST

Iron Will glanced off of Kano-san [343641]....

see, told ya I could hit him!

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] December 12 2009 3:19 PM EST

I'm looking at it, and if the JKF evasion covers all my PTh (which it might), and my dex is only 10-25 CTH it might make sense. I need to actually run the numbers for averages I guess

kevlar December 12 2009 3:26 PM EST

It says that UC's inherent evasion changes between ranged and melee rounds, does that mean it's lower in ranged and increases during melee?

Lochnivar December 12 2009 3:31 PM EST

so if nov's theory is correct then similar dex on our tanks accounts for the similar hit rates....

... which means the evasion is neutralizing a couple hundred mil in the PTH nw on his weapon..... dang

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] December 12 2009 3:40 PM EST

R1/R2/R3/R4/R5/R6////M1/M2/M3/M4/M5
_________________________________________
M M M M M M 0% M H M H 50%
M M M M M M 0% H M M M 25%
M M M M M M 0% M H M M 25%
H M M M H M 33% M M H M M 20%
M M M M M M 0% H M H 66%
M M M M M H 10% H M H 66%
M M M M M M 0% H H M M 50%
H M H M M M 33% M M H 33%
M M M M M M 0% H M M H 50%
H M M M H M 33% M M H H 50%


None of that jives with the image above... but whatever.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] December 12 2009 3:43 PM EST

The img at the begining has the rates as 50% for ranged and 0% for Melee... just how random is PTH?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 12 2009 4:44 PM EST

aren't those just bth hits?

TourneyPrizes December 12 2009 5:09 PM EST

All but the original looks that way

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] December 12 2009 5:16 PM EST

DOH... my bad

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 12 2009 5:26 PM EST

wouldn't your cth be:

r1 10%
r2 20%
r3 30%
r4 56%
r5 56%
r6 56%

or therabouts?

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] December 12 2009 5:27 PM EST

Don't know, it' looks like from the data that it's round 1 that has the best CTH

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 12 2009 5:29 PM EST

actually, evasion is just boosted in the first rounds, but evasion can't touch bth so i guess it would be a straight 56% all ranged rounds?

AdminNightStrike December 12 2009 5:29 PM EST

All I need to know is the displayed Evasion number for the JKF for whomever you are fighting.

MonkeyMandate [Wasting Time] December 12 2009 5:35 PM EST

if its me its 255 evasion and around 10,030,000 dx

QBRanger December 12 2009 5:40 PM EST

With Novice's leadership he should hit with the ELS more than the exbow.

The exbow has no PTH and only appears to rely on BTH.

BTH for each should be about the same, give or take 5 BTH.

AdminNightStrike December 13 2009 3:55 PM EST

Ok, I dumped out a lot of debug in the play by play. Run a fight again and show me the output.

Lochnivar December 13 2009 4:08 PM EST

Iron Will Chance to hit: 9 Actual hits: 1
Iron Will Chance to hit: 9 Actual hits: 0
Iron Will Chance to hit: 9 Actual hits: 0
Iron Will Chance to hit: 9 Actual hits: 1

Given the numbers on LR's jig it is a miracle I ever hit

QBRanger December 13 2009 4:10 PM EST

Dog Chance to hit: 63 Actual hits: 1 <---- Missile

Dog Chance to hit: 15 Actual hits: 0 <---- Melee

AdminNightStrike December 13 2009 4:15 PM EST

so you lost about 50% to hit in melee?

QBRanger December 13 2009 4:16 PM EST

It is more than 50%.

I lost about 75% of my missile chance to hit.

QBRanger December 13 2009 4:17 PM EST

Which is about correct.

60% loss due to using an elb in melee AND a bit more from lower dex = lower BTH from 60% less dex in melee.

Total is about right at 75% less.

AdminNightStrike December 13 2009 4:17 PM EST

From 63 to 15 seems reasonable. Using bows in melee gives you a disadvantage.

The issue novice was citing involved a sword in melee being worse than a crossbow.

QBRanger December 13 2009 4:18 PM EST

My post was not a bug complaint. Sorry if it was in the wrong place. It was just information. More information cannot be bad.

AdminNightStrike December 13 2009 4:23 PM EST

So what's novice's issue, then? I guess we'll have to wait until he returns.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 13 2009 4:32 PM EST

i fought nov with my jiggy, his biggest melee cth was about 170 above his largest ranged.

the only odd thing i saw is here:

Master Yoda Chance to hit: 206 Actual hits: 2
Master Yoda Chance to hit: 206 Actual hits: 3
Master Yoda Chance to hit: 206 Actual hits: 3
Master Yoda Chance to hit: 206 Actual hits: 2

it seems like in melee it follows the odds pretty closely most of the time but in ranged i am seeing quite a few repetitions on hits that defy the odds below 30 percent chance or so.

QBJohnnywas December 13 2009 4:34 PM EST

Against LR I start with 123 CTH, which rises to 227 in round 6. But come melee I have 20 CTH.

Ranged is with a PTH of 180, melee with a PTH of 150

QBRanger December 13 2009 4:34 PM EST

His issue, as I see it is that he is hitting more with his +176 exbow in missile than his 283 ELS in melee.

With LRs 255 evasion, he should have a bit more PTH on his ELS given leadership and should hit more.

I do see another post:

QBnovice December 12 3:40 PM EST
R1/R2/R3/R4/R5/R6////M1/M2/M3/M4/M5
_________________________________________
M M M M M M 0% M H M H 50%
M M M M M M 0% H M M M 25%
M M M M M M 0% M H M M 25%
H M M M H M 33% M M H M M 20%
M M M M M M 0% H M H 66%
M M M M M H 10% H M H 66%
M M M M M M 0% H H M M 50%
H M H M M M 33% M M H 33%
M M M M M M 0% H M M H 50%
H M M M H M 33% M M H H 50%

Which if I read correctly shows more melee than missile hits, but perhaps novice can clarify things.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 13 2009 4:39 PM EST

the google doc linked in the first post shows it:

Ranged Hits / Shots / Avg Damage 3 / 12 / 241,216
Melee Hits / Blows / Avg Damage 3 / 17 / 1,304,351

QBRanger December 13 2009 4:42 PM EST

Yes, that was one battle which as we know can be off normal by simple statistical variations.

But the small chart he posted later showed more melee than missile hits.

1 battle is not good to make assumptions about how things work.

Lochnivar December 13 2009 4:56 PM EST

Melee Base to-Hit 60 (BoTH
Melee Bonus to-Hit 134
Ranged Base to-Hit 55 (axbow)
Ranged Bonus to-Hit 76

How ever,in the last round of ranged:
Iron Will Chance to hit: 8 Actual hits: 0
First round of melee:
Iron Will Chance to hit: 9 Actual hits: 0

Seems similar to what nov was describing....

Should these be so similar in Chance to hit?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 13 2009 5:04 PM EST

base on both weapons are very close though loch, so it would be close if evasion is removing all of the pth on both weapons and getting them down to base?

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] December 13 2009 5:05 PM EST

Yes, it should be Loch, because the pth is completely eliminated. You are only getting the cth from dex.

QBRanger December 13 2009 5:05 PM EST

Yes Dude,

He has no PTH and only have BTH, which is a tad higher for the BTH, hence a 1% more chance to hit overall.

Lochnivar December 13 2009 5:07 PM EST

yep.. the ratio seems about right.. (8:9 = 90% = 55:60)

So basically the change from Morg to BoTH isn't huge here either...

And my dex and PTH do absolutely nothing.... kinda cool.
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002x0v">UC/JKF: Bug</a>