Reward System Simplification (in Debates)

Wraithlin January 4 2010 11:26 PM EST

Here is my suggestion for simplifying the reward system, and I think, making it more fair.

Step 1: Get rid of score, it's unnecessary.

Step 2: Get rid of challenge bonus, it's unnecessary.

Step 3: The reward you get for beating someone is solely a % of thier PR, (MPR + NW), so keep the NW-PR link.

Step 4: Unequipping any item that you used to gain rewards in the last 24 hours loses you 50% of your total 24 hour rewards. (I know this sounds harsh, but it is needed as explained below).

You will gain rewards based solely on how powerful the people you beat are, so you don't need a challenge bonus because higher PR people will give higher rewards, it is alreaady balanced for that.

Using score to give rewards out is not balanced, it is basically rewarding the rest of CB because one person is doing well and fighting people higher than him, then everyone else that can beat him gets more benefit from it, makes no sense.

The reason you have to penalize people for removing gear is because if you don't, people will just put on items, beat alot of people, then take it off so nobody can get as good of rewards from them. I would like to see a better way to handle this exploit than my suggestion however, so if you have an idea, please let me know.

This system does not however penalize you in any way for upping your NW for your own progress as your rewards are based solely on who you can kill, not how powerful you are and who you can kill. So if you have 0 NW and can beat Nov, then you put on 500 mil NW and beat Nov, you still get the same rewards for it. It does however still give other people higher rewards for beating you, which makes perfect sense, you are a tougher target, you should be giving a higher reward to others.

Let me know what you all think.

Wraithlin January 4 2010 11:31 PM EST

Two things I thought of after re-reading it myself:

1: If you have an equipped item auto-return from a rental/borrow time limit, you don't lose anything for it.

2: You don't actually lose XP/Money, you just get a new variable which is XP/Money Debt, so it's 50% of your last 24 hour XP/Money gain, and everytime you battle instead of gaining XP/Money, you just pay off your debt until it is gone, then you start gaining again.

Sickone January 4 2010 11:39 PM EST

Still exploitable.
All you need is a high-PR friendly target that doesn't want to play for 24+ hours, have him gimp himself and keep riding the gravy train until he returns (if ever, since, hey, who cares if he goes down to 500k score when he has 5 mil PR, autoretire is even lower) - and for that matter, everybody else that can beat his particularly style of self-gimping.

Wraithlin January 4 2010 11:43 PM EST

Current system is more exploitable, as you just need to win a few matches, get high score, then remove your tattoo and you can be farmed.

At least with the new system, you have to keep all your gear on for full effect, which is harder to build.

And I'm not going for non-exploitable, I'm going for just a simplier system. As long as you're willing to cheat, there is no reward system that is non-exploitable.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] January 4 2010 11:46 PM EST

This would encourage far too much stagnation which is already a problem as it is. You wouldn't even be able to try out new equipment or change gear setup to try and lose farmers or get defensive wins.

Wraithlin January 4 2010 11:53 PM EST

How about this then:

Score is calculated in a new way:

Whenever you win a fight you initiate, your score become your current PR, unless your score is already higher than your current PR, and then there is no change.

So basically your score is equal to your highest PR ever gained.

Rewards are then just a % of your score. So you can change gear all you want, retrain all you want, but it still keeps the rewards the same for everyone else. So it encourages you to at least keep yourself defended properly.

Of course as stated before, this then makes it very easily exploited. However it is also incredibly easy to detect exploiters, it's the people losing a whole bunch of battles to the same person when thier current PR is way under thier score.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] January 5 2010 12:01 AM EST

Honestly with 5 years of experience I find myself flummoxed when I attempt to come up with a good simple system for rewards. Rather than trying to pull one out of nowhere, maybe we need to identify what doesn't work about the existing system.

QBRanger January 5 2010 12:11 AM EST

In such a small system, less than 150 actively fighting people, it is easy to manipulate the score system with 1 or 2 people making a concerted effort.

If there were 1000 players or more, it would be much harder to manipulate the current system. NW/PR aside, score is a fairly good indicator of who is better than whom. Much better than using just MPR or PR of course.

The current method of calculating rewards is not perfect, but it is not completely horrible either.

There are a few things that need to be fine tuned for things to work smoother.

They include:

1) The inability to "manipulate" the score system with 1 or 2 people attempting.

2) The fact score gravitates to PR rather than increase by a set amount. Perhaps based upon your PR vs their PR.

3) The losing score by untraining. I realize people can untrain and with a high score lose and artificially inflate rewards, retrain/win and rinse/repeat with that as a possible abuse. However, how is that any different than unequipping a weapon, or using a MgS on a mage like people do now. Except you lose xp each time.

Problem 1 is hard to control when the developers themselves state active score manipulation is not illegal in CB. If we had more players than this problem would likely take care of itself due to sample size.

Problem 2 needs to be addressed by the developers themselves in fixing that specific problem, if they deem it to exist.

Problem 3 can be fixed by just stopping the score loss by untraining. There is no need for it as I have pointed out other methods of gimping a character. Such methods themselves need to be illegal as well.

Wraithlin January 5 2010 2:28 AM EST

1) The inability to "manipulate" the score system with 1 or 2 people attempting.

If we use a system that is easier to detect misuse, then we don't have to worry so much that it is happening, just what to do when they are. Simplifying the system will make it easier to monitor.

2) The fact score gravitates to PR rather than increase by a set amount. Perhaps based upon your PR vs their PR.

I like PR vs PR rather than score, score just shows how well a team is doing, not how powerful they actually are. It is really unfair to the teams that have a 2:1 / score:MPR ratio that are getting farmed by people twice thier MPR.

3) The losing score by untraining

If we use PR vs PR then this doesn't matter, since it doesn't drop thier PR by near as much.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 5 2010 3:29 AM EST

Score sohuld currently be removed from the reward calculation.

We need Score, but leave it as just the 'ranking' of CB. To show how well your Team is doing.

Rewards should be based on PR to PR. With the 'score' portion of how well your strat work, and how high you can fight up, represented by your Challenge Bonus (or lack of).

In everyone's experience, what does the score portion of Rewards actually stand for?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] January 5 2010 8:41 AM EST

i think gl is on the right track here. the easily manipulated part would only affect challenge bonus rather than base rewards and thus wouldn't be compounded.

sickone, how exactly would people gimp themselves without affecting pr? the only method i can think of is a mage shield and that could be tweaked...are there others?

Zenai [Cult of the Valaraukar] January 6 2010 12:48 PM EST

I have no idea how hard it would be to Code but I'll ask anyway.

Why not just seperate Base and CB rewards?

Wraithlin January 6 2010 12:58 PM EST

Not sure what you mean by this Zenai.

Do you mean you get a base reward based off how high your MPR, or maybe your target MPR is.

And then you get a CB reward, and it calculates them differently?
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002y0s">Reward System Simplification</a>