Forger Supporter Items, why not? (in General)

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] January 11 2010 1:35 PM EST

Now I'm sure this is beating an old drum, however, I still feel it to be necessary.

This thread got me to thinking:

Fighters have items.
Mages have items.
Enchanters have items.
Familiars have the AoJ and so have access to items.

Forgers have absolutely Exp/Cash/RPM Rewards, no Supporter Items, not even regular items.

Honestly I feel this to be unfair. Forgers are a part of our Economy. They are a part of our community. They even have Clans. Forgers are an integral part of CB. So why is it that even a piece of Armor has precedence over them in getting an item?

I suggest the following as Supporter Items for Forgers:

Forging Gloves: Glove Armor Slot:

Tongs: Shield Slot:

Armor's / Weapons Smith Hammer: Weapons Slot:

Smith's Apron: Chest Slot:

Blacksmith's Greaves: Boot Armor Slot:

I'll leave the Stats up to people smarter than me. A few things to note though.

2 Types of Hammer( It's only fair )

RPM, Accuracy, Viciousness should be affected by these items.

These items should have a Fixed Boost or a Very Steep Upgrade.

I feel a new facet of Forging should be introduced. Heat/Burn Damage or Fatigue. Maybe both?

Just a few thoughts and opinions....

Miandrital January 11 2010 1:40 PM EST

Because items are a per minion thing, and forging is a per character thing. If you think about it from a programming point of view, it would probably get complicated if you have both types of items on the same minion.

I believe this is a FORS thing...

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] January 11 2010 2:10 PM EST

Easy to fix then, Equipping one type auto unequips the other and 1 of each type per Char....just like a Tattoo/Rune/Familiar. Forger or Fighter no more inbetween.

As far as FORS, don't you think it should be revisited? Just because there was no precedence for it before does not necessarily mean it autoapplies to the here and now.

Salketer [big bucks] January 11 2010 2:48 PM EST

So, that means you absolutely have 4 minions to take a good advantage from it... I feel it shouldn't matter how many minions you have. But I like the idea of getting some boosts to forgers.

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] January 11 2010 3:32 PM EST

Umm I was not looking at it from that angle Salketer. Let me clarify. You can only equip 1 of each type of Forger Item on your Char. This is so the effects cannot be stacked ala 4 minions,1 minion is all that is needed. If you equip a Forger Item it auto unequips Fighter Items on your entire char and Vice Versa. This stops the fence riders, you are either a Forger or a Fighter.

iBananco [Blue Army] January 11 2010 3:42 PM EST

Doesn't the fact that both need BA take care of that already? It's not like you get a bonus to efficiency if you do half and half.

Unappreciated Misnomer January 11 2010 3:55 PM EST

i dont much care the item idea any more, well maybe just a smithing hammer would be fine with a flat 1% increase of what ever your rpm is(ie: so 1% of .91 isnt much at all lol)

but rather i like to entertain the idea of getting a whole econ forging clan to power forge an item.

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] January 11 2010 3:57 PM EST

It just makes it more simple for the Devs in instances like Mian brought up. Plus this will make it a definite division of Fighters and Forgers it would no longer be nebulous.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] January 11 2010 4:43 PM EST

unless jon's stance has changed, he never meant for forging to be an alternate playstyle. with that being said, i doubt distinguishing between fighters and forgers is desirable.

Vaynard [Fees Dirt Cheap] January 11 2010 5:52 PM EST

What I don't get is that as you fight, your bonuses increase and you make progress in mpr. As you forge, well, you gain NW and that's it.

How about a forging rewards system? Have it be tied to your account. As you first start forging, you get no bonus. But as you continue, say for every $5mill NW you add, you gain a .5% forging efficiency boost. It could go up to a max of say 10% bonus over what a person that's never forged gets.

Another idea I would love is once you have an account with maxed forging, you could pay a large amount to gain Elven forging, which obviously lets you forge all that pesky elven stuff again.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] January 11 2010 6:59 PM EST

Forging is more effective with more MPR, the same as fighting.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] January 11 2010 7:16 PM EST

Smithing Hammer [10x1] +0 It can only be forged, you could also have it only be traded if base or untradeable completely. Increasing the x portion will increase your efficiency when forging the viciousness. Increasing the accuracy will increase the efficiency when forging on accuracy.

Blacksmith's Anvil [0] Each + increases the efficiency of forging armor. It counts as a shield.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] January 11 2010 7:17 PM EST

The Blacksmith's anvil would also be a forge only item.

This would be so that the forger will forge up their own equipment kind of like an apprenticeship.

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] January 12 2010 6:46 AM EST

unless jon's stance has changed, he never meant for forging to be an alternate playstyle. with that being said, i doubt distinguishing between fighters and forgers is desirable.

Again just like the FORS thing that was in the past what applied back then does not necessary auto apply to the here and now. Also just to note this, there are Economic Clans if Jon were not at least entertaining the idea they would not even exist.
How about a forging rewards system? Have it be tied to your account.

Awesomeness Vaynard, sheer poetry. This is something I KNOW has been brought up more than once. As Titan has brought up it is currently based off of MPR meaning you HAVE to be a Fighter first then when it is all said and done you can be a Forger if you like or buy a Char. Now this leaves an avenue/market for Disposable Chars which is not a bad thing considering the alternative of retiring.

Now if this were to change and be based on something else like say Efficiency ala Vaynard's idea and Trial and Error with Nem's via hard work on your Forger's Items then MPR will be a thing of the past for Forgers. Add in a Skill set for Forgers like Armorer and Weapons Smith(Truth smithing Armor and Weapons are 2 different animals completely)

Then we hit the market of specializations and reset the market for Forgers, up the Forging fees a bit to compensate for the increases in Efficiency and voila enter the age of Forging.

Something to Note: Yes this is a fighting game I understand that so I feel the option to fight should always be open. I also feel that this is also limited, there is support for everything else in battle and war: First and foremost being the Blacksmith/Forger/Smithy(for the time frame of the game so to speak). Without Weapons and Armor you will fail plain and simple, this should have been incorporated long ago on a much larger scale imho.

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] January 12 2010 6:50 AM EST

btw Nem on the items Awesome Ideas! I love the fact that you have to work to get what you want rather than Blacksmithing it. You want to be a Master Forger well put in the work scrub!

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] January 12 2010 7:01 AM EST

there is a distinct difference between boosting or improving forging and supporting forging as an alternate playstyle in my mind. econ clans boost forging or lessen the costs of transfers or forge fees. none of these create character growth, forging skill growth or tie forging efficiency to anything other than mpr.

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] January 12 2010 7:08 AM EST

dudemus you hit the nail on the head. Part of the point here is that is is here and here to stay and it is in support of other players as well as themselves in this game. I think it is high time for it to be fully supported starting with Items. Do not get me wrong I still feel that before you attempt Forging you should have to fight to understand the game. However there should be other avenues of Gameplay in this game foremost of this is Forging.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] January 12 2010 7:13 AM EST

making forging the most awesome, item-boosted mechanism in the game and much easier and even fun for forgers still wouldn't do jack for increasing the amount of people using forgers, in my opinion.

with that in mind, i think the best boosts that forgers could get would be system changes that allow forging an item while the owner can still use it and the ability for a whole clan to work on a forging job simultaneously to increase turn around time.

also have forging jobs go into a pool where forgers can just choose which job to do next without all the trouble of posts and such.

in short, the best way to help forgers is to give other users a good reason to use them. ; )

Canibus January 12 2010 8:53 AM EST

Lets say something like the rental section.
You put up a weapon or armor, choose how many points of what you want upgraded, and you "lock money" up with that offer (like auction).
The % of that job would then be automatically calculated, based on upgrade and money paid, and it goes on a "forge job list" of some sort.
Then forgers can take that job (and the employer keeping his stuff). When the goal is reached, the amount is paid to the forger.

Then there are details on how long a forger can have that job without completing etc. Option to have multiple forgers etc may also be fun. But its the mainly the first part I got the idea for.

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 [SHIELD] January 12 2010 1:23 PM EST

My issue with forging is this:

As a fighter, the more you fight, the better you get. Cash rewards increase NW and exp grow your character and tattoo.

As a forger, the more you forge the worse you become. Your MPR loses position against top characters and your forging efficiency falls. I think a system that remedies this disparity would work best and at least slightly encourage forging ones own items, though this would do little make forging preferable to the blacksmith. For that I submit we remove the blacksmith entirely, but that comes with it's own issues I suppose.

Canibus January 12 2010 2:48 PM EST

The lack of MPR gain is solely the worst thing about forging.

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] January 12 2010 7:02 PM EST

Everything Summarized (I hope I got it all

Zen's Idea: Forger Only Items that Boost Forging Capabilities.

Vaynard's Ideas: Forger Reward System Tied to the Players Account not the Char. Over time a Bonus of up to 10% for continuous forging can be reached. Once said bonus is maxed the capability to forge Blacksmith only items opens up.

Nem's Ideas: Forge only Items: Items for a forger to use to improve forging but cannot be Blacksmithed they can only be improved through the Forgers hard work.

dudemus' Ideas: Allow Forging on an Item while the Owner is still using it. Allow a Forgepool so that everyone in an Econ Clan can Forge the item for a faster turnaround.

Canibus' Idea: Basically a Forger's Forum that works like a cross between FS/WTB and Rentals.

Slayers Idea: Separate the Forging Efficiency and MPR correlation. Make Forge only items just like there is Blacksmith only items thereby making a greater need for forging. (or Kill/Kidnap the Blacksmith and ransom him for 1 Bil

{WW]Nayab [Cult of the Valaraukar] January 12 2010 10:10 PM EST

I was thinking about this and disenchanting. And i would like an option to disenchant your own items. At the moment disenchanting gives 50% money returned.

If you choose to disenchant using your BA and the forge, you would get 95% returned (or at least somewhere between 90% and 100% return). Also adding this would allow you to manually disenchant non-rares for a 50% monetary return (or somewhere between 50% and 75%)

So you could disenchant that pesky whip that has to go through auctions or that long bow you upgraded to x on. the disenchant efficiency of an item would be equal to double the forging efficiency on the flip side. i.e. if it took 22BA to get a dagger to +1 it would take 11BA (or close to) to disenchant it from +1 to +0.

[P]Mitt January 12 2010 11:57 PM EST

I haven't read the thread in its entirety, but I really, REALLY like dudemus's idea. Firstly, that would give some purpose for being in a certain economic clan.

Perhaps the clan's total forging NW would be the basis on forging bonuses, similar to fighting clans.

The clan leader could also accept and decline jobs for the entire clan, and the members would be paid proportionally to what they completed. Like have the client pay up front and define what the upgrade would be, subtract 15% forge fees and then have the clan go at it. Or something along those lines.

[P]Mitt January 12 2010 11:59 PM EST

Sorry for the double post, but I was referring to the:
Allow a Forgepool so that everyone in an Econ Clan can Forge the item for a faster turnaround.

Salketer [big bucks] January 13 2010 12:10 AM EST

Going with Nem's Ideas, I would make the items trade-able and/or auction-able only if they are base. That way no one can be "saved" of spending BA for the bonus.

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] January 14 2010 8:08 PM EST

Very Interesting Ideas Folks please do keep them coming :-)

ScY January 14 2010 10:31 PM EST

"Forging is more effective with more MPR, the same as fighting. "

Unfortunately not always true. There are MPR intervals where it is much better to be lower MPR and get more BA/time than to have a slightly higher mpr (and thus a VERY slightly modified forging bonus) and less ba/time

iBananco [Blue Army] January 14 2010 11:31 PM EST

Unfortunately not always true. There are MPR intervals where it is much better to be lower MPR and get more BA/time than to have a slightly higher mpr (and thus a VERY slightly modified forging bonus) and less ba/time

Always true. When you cross a BA regen rewards and forging are multiplied by the proper factor to scale to the new amount of BA.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] January 15 2010 3:41 AM EST

I, also, like dudemus' ideas.

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 [SHIELD] January 17 2010 5:35 PM EST

A thought:

For every successive cycle on a particular item, why not give a boost to efficiency. This way as long as you continually have success and don't mess up, you get "better" at forging a particular item.

[The Wretched]Freekie [Lower My Fees] January 17 2010 9:08 PM EST

I like :)

{WW]Nayab [Cult of the Valaraukar] January 17 2010 9:09 PM EST

Nice suggestion Slayer
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