will heroes become a sod? ; ) (in General)


Admindudemus [jabberwocky] January 23 2010 9:57 AM EST

i found these old posts and was just wondering if heroes was going to convert that huge elb into a sod? i am also curious as to how many big elbs have been converted so far?


QBRanger September 18 2009 11:15 AM EDT
If I had to do it over again, I would use a SoD without any hesitation.

You stated all the pluses and minuses of an ELB vs SoD very well.

The decision would boil down to the ability to not be FORCED to train a skill just to use a weapon as it was intended. This for me would save over 1.3M levels which I could put into something else. For others with higher strength it would be a lot more.

Also, with the exbow, the SoD, with its ability to attack all minions in a round is invaluable.

If or when there is a missile salvage yard, I can assure you ELB's will be very rare as most ELB users I have chatted with will go to a SoD.
QBRanger September 18 2009 11:18 AM EDT
The only time an ELB would be worse for me is vs another single or dual minion tank based character.

But then those extra levels I would save by not being forced to train archery could boost my dexterity enough to hit them more, or give me more hp to outlive them, or let me learn evasion with the ability use EBs.

I can see very few scenarios in which an ELB>SoD. Perhaps if you have a FF as was stated. However, I have tried a FF with my archer and prompty lose 4 people from my fightlist vs the HF mostly due to the stupid splash damage.

ResistanZ January 23 2010 10:15 AM EST

Million dollar question. I am very anxious to know myself.

One suggestion though, add capitalization to the name of your title thread. I first clicked on this thread because I couldn't understand what you were asking and how it related to being a sod.

Zenai January 23 2010 10:28 AM EST

He's looking but is also aware of the sharks out there and has drawn a line in the sand as to how much he will pay for it. So I would say "Yes".

http://www.carnageblender.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002yjX

QBJohnnywas January 23 2010 10:41 AM EST

Hmmm. All that damage versus lesser damage and vulnerability against RBF....

QBRanger January 23 2010 10:44 AM EST

Just waiting to get one to try it out!

Demigod January 23 2010 11:22 AM EST

This affects me as well. I'm using the 9th largest ELB in the game backed by a FF for splash damage. My initial thought was to switch from ELB->SoD and from FF->SF. However, I also have a second minion using MM, and I should probably retrain that minion... but that would be a massive loss of EXP.

I was going to create a thread, but if you guys can give me input here, I'll start looking for a SoD.

QBRanger January 23 2010 11:35 AM EST

You can always change your tattoo to a ToA. Use the SoD and MM Minion.

Demigod January 23 2010 11:56 AM EST

I thought about that, but I fear it would leave me as tank-bait.

Pwned January 23 2010 3:59 PM EST

Your not gonna like the SoD's damage compared to the ELB and with less CTH. Wheres the betting pools? I'll bet you'll revert back to the ELB.

Windwalker January 23 2010 4:04 PM EST

Must admit I been checking on that change daily. :) Will he? lol

Zenai January 23 2010 4:25 PM EST

IntoExile I think you may be a bit surprised as his ELB is quite large.


The Lunatic [6x25000] (+234) worth $321,268,854 owned by QBRanger (Heroes)

The Closest to his x is this:

Eggs of Death [5x12400] (+50) worth $110,757,293 owned by Joel (Joel)

(Just a little over Half)

The Closest to his + is this:

A Sling of Death [5x8000] (+240) worth $212,324,050 owned by ImmortalAA (The Immortals)

(Just 6 more + which is negligible)

It would be the most devastating SoD in-game no questions asked and I think with the splash damage it will make up for the loss of extra hits.

Zenai January 23 2010 4:27 PM EST

(Just a little over Half) <---Should Read--->(Just a little under Half)

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] January 23 2010 4:54 PM EST

i am curious mainly because there has been an ongoing debate regarding the 100 bth of the elb being too good or not. personally i think it is and would be surprised if the sod is good enough but am hoping to be proven wrong. needless to say, i am anxious to see how it all pans out now that we have the ranged salvege yard!

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] January 23 2010 5:03 PM EST

Well, he'll be losing at least one hit a round for the first 4 rounds, sometimes two.

Zenai January 23 2010 5:09 PM EST

true but splash damage at that high of a plus will make up for it I think.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] January 23 2010 5:15 PM EST

It does sometimes.

Zenai January 23 2010 5:19 PM EST

There is not another SoD with even half the x as Ranger's ELB. I'm sure it will make up for it by far in comparison :-)

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] January 23 2010 5:21 PM EST

Personally I think Ranger will do slightly worse overall with a SoD, though against a couple people, namely Novice he will do better.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] January 23 2010 5:21 PM EST

No, I mean it's simple math Zen, sometimes it will, sometimes it won't.

Zenai January 23 2010 5:23 PM EST

The 50/50 rule you mean Titan?

I will be honest I have really been contemplating changing over to a SoD myself..............

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] January 23 2010 5:28 PM EST

Alright, here we go, DM will be little to useless he can completely eliminate the GA. As his splash damage will be tiny. That one less attack equates to 20% to 25% less damage. Put on top of that the fact that the SoD does 70% the damage of the ELb you're looking at around 52%-56% of the damage of his ELB. Ignoring the fact that he'll hit even less against tanks. If he fights a four minion team he'll be doing 54% + 54%x.3 + 54%x.3 + 54%x.3; but that's only for the first hit. So first hit, he'll be doing more damage then before. But, don't forget those minions die. If he fights some teams with a lot of kill slots, or people with even distribution of HP it might be more beneficial. But, I'm not so convinced.

QBJohnnywas January 23 2010 5:31 PM EST

It's the weakness against the RBF that would worry me. There are a lot of very very big RBFs around the top levels. I'm not expecting to see huge amounts more damage than my mageseeker does on direct hits, and providing the RBF is working, there'll be some decent damage reduction.

They are also a little bit weak against the ToE by the way....

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] January 23 2010 5:35 PM EST

Forgot the fact that he'll be able to lose archery, so my numbers aren't *quite* as unbalanced as they look, but still it won't help him add anyone. So basically no good can come from it, at worst something bad comes from it.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] January 23 2010 5:36 PM EST

He might be able to add novice by changing over. Though it would most likely make him worse against me.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] January 23 2010 5:38 PM EST

He won't be adding nov. (and not b/c of this change, but for another reason I see happening)

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] January 23 2010 5:45 PM EST

Oh, and if he expects to have any chance with nov at all, a large melee weapon will be required with that SoD.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] January 23 2010 5:45 PM EST

i have never been very good at strategy, but i can only see it helping him with opponents where the battles went to melee and fairly deep into melee.

QBJohnnywas January 23 2010 5:50 PM EST

Not so sure about that Dude. If the damage in ranged is lowered he will end up having to take it to melee, especially against one or two minion teams. And then, as said above, a large melee weapon will be necessary.

Against some teams it will knock them out pretty fast, but the ELB will already be taking those out fast now. And from my own experience with the SoD in the past there are very few places it does something the ELB can't.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] January 23 2010 5:56 PM EST

too true, i guess that has been why i have doubted this as a good strategy move for so long. i guess we wait and see...

gols090 [forge of me] January 23 2010 6:49 PM EST

Hopefully this will mean that my GA will be put to more use :)

Joel January 23 2010 10:08 PM EST

My SoD is integral to my kill fast strategy. I have a very focused strategy that compounds the use of an SoD with Mega DM and low HP. My huge DM will be able to knock out any AS and GA in the game and my SoD will then be able to finish every battle in 1-6 rounds against my opponents. On most of my opponents, right now, I only seem to need 1 million HP to stay alive until they die and, on a couple, I could beat them if I had only 20 HP. I only need to deal a couple hits per round to do the splash I need to kill all the kill-slot minions.
So, the SoD is very good when used with certain strategies. Can an ELB defeat a 4 minion team in one round? If you have huge DM, then you can use the SoD to decrease your need for HP and get even MORE DM ^.^

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] January 24 2010 2:08 AM EST

And then teams like mine get a free lunch ;)

Pwned January 26 2010 6:27 AM EST

Hes not gonna switch. I think the +100 CTH is to much to give up.

Demigod January 26 2010 7:08 AM EST

He recently bought a SoD in auctions.

QBRanger January 26 2010 9:23 AM EST

Sunday

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] January 26 2010 10:16 AM EST

sunday, Sunday, SUNDAY! at the carnage blender exposition hall, take part in ranged salvage yard sod-mania!

QBRanger January 26 2010 10:55 AM EST

I do not think I would get too excited about it. It is just a game you know.

Godpanda January 26 2010 11:53 AM EST

OMG.

This is a game!?

WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN?


Man. Thank you. I just had no idea this was a game. Luckily, there you were, to point it out to me, like those other lovely people who like to help me out from time to time. You know, those people who let me know not to stare into the sun, or those who like to remind me after I stub my toe that the sky isn't falling.


Where would humanity be without those masters of the obvious?

QBRanger January 26 2010 12:15 PM EST

GW,

Please in the future refrain from posting a reply to anything I post.

You are nothing but a self righteous troll who posts nothing but spam.

Your last comment does nothing but inflame a very civil post.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] January 26 2010 12:32 PM EST

and name calling helps how?

QBRanger January 26 2010 12:43 PM EST

Makes me feel much better.

But I am sick and tired of this constant crap in the forums with GW.

Pwned January 26 2010 1:33 PM EST

sunday, Sunday, SUNDAY! at the carnage blender exposition hall, take part in ranged salvage yard sod-mania!



Lol Funny, where is this from? I want this as my ringtone.

Whois GW btw?

Godpanda January 27 2010 12:25 AM EST

That was an attempt at humor. I found it very funny =) Of course, I've always heard it's in bad taste to laugh at one's own jokes.

And you take it too personally I've been on a "I know it's a game, I don't need you to tell me it." rant on every game I play. You just happened to be the lucky guy who likes to do exactly what everyone else does, apparently.

QBRanger January 27 2010 12:33 AM EST

Thing is I was not talking to you. I was talking with Dude.

Godpanda January 27 2010 12:37 AM EST

This is a public forum. And I thought I'd contribute that little commentary. I thought it held to the subject regarding this "being a game" and how posts like that don't add anything unless, well, you happen to think who you're typing to is so dysfunctional they don't really know they're playing a game.

kevlar January 27 2010 12:39 AM EST

lol, Dudemus. For a second I thought Billy Mays was back, and I subconsciously had already grabbed the phone and had my wallet out before I realized it was really you!

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] January 31 2010 10:23 AM EST

bump for sunday, Sunday, SUNDAY! ; )

Guardian January 31 2010 10:31 AM EST

Joel is doing miracles with his huge sod, Ranger would destroy anyone with a sod similar to his elbow and prolly become almost unbeatable

QBRanger January 31 2010 10:40 AM EST

I will be waiting just a bit till I hire my 4th minion.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] January 31 2010 10:57 AM EST

you seemed very certain with your predictions in september, why the hesitancy now, if i may ask?

QBRanger January 31 2010 11:16 AM EST

Since a SoD is now hard to come by, I would hate to waste 1M CB if I perhaps am wrong.

Is it so hard for you to wait till I gather enough money for my last minion?

Perhaps I should gather more data for 6 months before I make the switch. One has to be 100+% certain to an infinite degree before making a chance I read.

QBRanger January 31 2010 11:17 AM EST

chance should be change.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] January 31 2010 11:25 AM EST

no reason to get testy! you made some pretty confident predictions, i am just left wondering what happened to all that confidence.

QBRanger January 31 2010 11:37 AM EST

For one the flood of money into CB recently with the boost to certain stupidly overpowered weapons.

Now I want to finalize my strategy before I change to a SoD, given their scarcity.

But remember my character is based upon using an ELB. If I went SoD from the beginning Heroes would be slightly different.

When I hire my 4th minion, I will have Heroes setup for using a SoD.

Another problem is the xp I spent on archery. I cannot simpley unlearn them, pump hp and then get them back. I have to carefully figure how things will be with that xp free.

Be patient, CB is a long term game. Heroes will try the SoD soon.

Demigod January 31 2010 12:26 PM EST

Now I want to finalize my strategy before I change to a SoD, given their scarcity. ... Another problem is the xp I spent on archery. I cannot simpley unlearn them, pump hp and then get them back.


I'm using Ranger as my guinea pig. I want to switch to a SoD to release my FF from splashing team members. But then I will need to switch to SF, ToA, or Halidon. SF isn't likely, as I would need to retrain not only Archery, but MM as well (which won't happen).

I'm trying to avoid bidding wars with SoDs right now, so I'm perfectly fine waiting to make sure Ranger's change goes smoothly.

QBJohnnywas January 31 2010 1:33 PM EST

You don't need to untrain/retrain archery to makes sure the SoD works. You're perfectly set up to use the SoD as it stands. If it doesn't work with your current set up, the likelihood of it working with an extra minion and the archery retrained are pretty slim...

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] January 31 2010 6:21 PM EST

i agree that it is very difficult, or even impossible, to predict all of the different variables that affect the game, or our country for that matter with absolute certainty! which is why i have my doubts when people attempt such predictions. ; )

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] February 5 2010 2:10 PM EST

is that four minions i see? ; 0

QBRanger February 5 2010 2:11 PM EST

Certainly.

As most things in CB, testing typically occurs on a Sunday when clan points are not in question.

Ancient Anubis February 5 2010 6:12 PM EST

don't go sod robfs hammer u way to much and the ability to hit multiple times is much hampered by the sod compared to the elb.

QBJohnnywas February 5 2010 6:17 PM EST

The Immortals is still sort of in my line of fire, despite the huge ToA, the massive amounts of PTH and the x10000 on the SoD. 14 mill strength, x10000 and only 300-400k damage per strike thanks to my ToE.

That massive amount of PTh is killer though...

Ancient Anubis February 5 2010 6:25 PM EST

my pth sits at 293 for sod and 295 for mod and yet i still have trouble hitting or getting multiple hits on minions with smaller dbs then mine or similar and smaller DX than i do. Unless i'm missing something i really do not recommend the sod the elbs seem to be much more effective of what i've seen

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] February 5 2010 7:48 PM EST

yeah 289 on an EX actually only results in about 215 CTH for the first few rounds of ranged... everything but the ELB is really crippled by penalties

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] February 5 2010 7:51 PM EST

Always greener on the other side?

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] February 5 2010 7:57 PM EST

massive damage and massive inherent CTH sound pretty green to me I'll admit

If instead of trying to defend against the ELB I went the other route and became an ELB team I'd be in much better shape. Not hard to break the GA cap, NW invested actually wins fights (in a general sense) and does damage.

If my EX were an ELB I'd have more like 270 CTH against Ranger's tank...

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] February 5 2010 9:21 PM EST

i am curious mainly because there has been an ongoing debate regarding the 100 bth of the elb being too good or not. personally i think it is and would be surprised if the sod is good enough but am hoping to be proven wrong. needless to say, i am anxious to see how it all pans out now that we have the ranged salvege yard!


i guess we will find out soon enough! : )

Demigod February 5 2010 10:40 PM EST

Guinea pig Ranger, since you like statistics, I'm sure you'll track data comparing the ELB to SoD. If you don't mind, please post your findings when you're done.

QBRanger February 7 2010 10:12 AM EST

The Lunatic [5x21526] (+234)

QBJohnnywas February 7 2010 10:15 AM EST

The Travelling Man (Band of Wookies) Heroes (F) (+) (Battle Royale) The Travelling Man 19 10:14 AM EST

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] February 7 2010 10:15 AM EST

archery retrained as of yet?

Demigod February 7 2010 10:25 AM EST

Two SoDs

QBRanger February 7 2010 10:31 AM EST

No, 2M levels still in archery.

Prelim results:

The RBF freaking sucks. On top of everything else it gets, resistance to the RBF splash also?

Now to real data:

1) Much easier vs novice, NWO, Koy, Conq Okay.
2) Worse vs high dex minions. Like Z and JW.
3) No idea if more dexterity-1.95M levels will help vs Z, JW and Failure.

QBJohnnywas February 7 2010 10:32 AM EST

You've also got the added extra against me of my ToE, which drops your main hits down to something resembling a compound bow of half the size of your SoD.

Guardian February 7 2010 11:02 AM EST

i would like to know whats the size of ranger's test SOD

(0.0) [SeeD] February 7 2010 11:37 AM EST

The Lunatic [5x21526] (+234)

Demigod February 7 2010 11:42 AM EST

The Lunatic is back to being an ELB, but it was converted to a SoD. Ranger also has a 2nd SoD on his last minion, but I don't know its stats.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] February 7 2010 1:49 PM EST

Awww, it was all over while I was asleep?

Demigod February 7 2010 2:47 PM EST

If so, it was very short-lived and doesn't bode well for me. Hopefully Ranger will give some more insight.

QBRanger February 7 2010 3:33 PM EST

Vs the RBF, the SoD is utter garbage. The ability of it to lower damage is quite pathetic in addition to all its other abilities.

Vs single minions with a high dex it does not hit as often and is worse than the ELB.

Vs multiminion non RBF characters it rocks, very well. IE vs NWO I win in 2 rounds.

Vs the ToE it is not very good but then again the ELB unless massive in not great vs that tattoo as it is designed to lower physical damage only.

I do think if I unlearned my 2M archery and put 1.95M levels into dexterity, the only problem would be the RBF characters.

This just gives me more reason to hate the RBF as the overpowered junk it is.

Pwned February 7 2010 4:04 PM EST

Vs multiminion non RBF characters it rocks, very well. IE vs NWO I win in 2 rounds.



What about GA on these teams with multiminions? Does that kill you too? I can't take multiminion teams with GA but then again, your useing a ToA so you pump into HP.

QBRanger February 7 2010 4:46 PM EST

I have 7+M levels DM. That takes care of GA.

Pwned February 7 2010 4:57 PM EST

Heh nice

Pwned February 8 2010 11:45 PM EST

The SoD almost never hits in melee. How does the ELB with archery handle it??

QBRanger February 8 2010 11:45 PM EST

Poorly
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