Musings on a Sunday Evening - Minion Count (in General)


AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 7 2010 6:28 PM EST

8 of the top 12 Teams are now 4 Minions.

Dagobah (7778285)
Heroes (7725147)
King of Pain (7527702)
Conquerer Okay (7499998)
Koyaanisqatsi (7453611)
Okay's Revenge (7221431)
FTW (7049930)
NWO (6740084)

This is too freaking powerful.

;)

Pwned February 7 2010 6:50 PM EST

Loool Lol GL too funny

Wraithlin February 7 2010 6:53 PM EST

I'm a hacker then, I use both four minions and RoBF, might as well just call me a cheater and ban my account.

three4thsforsaken February 7 2010 7:35 PM EST

you make a provocative argument GL.

(0.0) [SeeD] February 7 2010 7:56 PM EST

Don't forget Okay's Revenge is retired.

QBRanger February 7 2010 7:56 PM EST

I think that is well known to everyone. Even those who use 4 minions.

However the RBF is still stated as being not powerful by those using it.

iBananco [Blue Army] February 7 2010 7:58 PM EST

I think that is well known to everyone. Even those who use 4 minions. However the RBF is still stated as being not powerful by those using it.


So if everybody agrees about something, it's less relevant?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 7 2010 8:05 PM EST

I think that is well known to everyone. Even those who use 4 minions.


I could have sworn the other day general concensus was it was Single Minions being more powerful, as they have XP concentration...

However the RBF is still stated as being not powerful by those using it.


Powerful yes. OP, no.

Diferent, and hard to counter, sure.

In need of a nerf? For sure as much as 4 Minion Teams are.

Wraithlin February 7 2010 8:07 PM EST

RoBF is only so common because GA is so powerful. GA combined with some good ranged round damage and it's near impossible to deal with. DM although it will remove the GA, means you didn't put AMF or EC on them and the bow or FB/MM will hit that much harder. And if the GA using team is using DM themselves, AS isn't much of a buffer either.

And if you're using AMF it's even worse, the GA is hitting your for 60% of what you do, and they are hitting you for alot.

That is why RoBF is being used so much right now. If you want to see more tattoos of other types being used, either nerf GA down to 40% cap or so, or give other methods of avoiding the damage. I.E. a helm that would compete with clearsight, instead of an extra round firing, it cuts GA damage in half. I bet something like that would give ToA alot more representation.

Just because you see alot of something, doesn't always mean that something is powerful, and in my opinion that's what happened with the RoBF. The RoBF isn't the powerful tool here, it's the best counter to the real powerful tool, the GA.

Pwned February 7 2010 8:10 PM EST

Nice, well rounded and thought out rant Wraith. You get a plus sign.

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] February 7 2010 10:14 PM EST


Is this a thread about overpowered tools?

QBRanger February 7 2010 10:34 PM EST

I could have sworn the other day general concensus was it was Single Minions being more powerful, as they have XP concentration...

No true.

The chat was that single minions have no advantages to multi minion characters. XP concentration was one advantage single minions have.
Just because you see alot of something, doesn't always mean that something is powerful, and in my opinion that's what happened with the RoBF. The RoBF isn't the powerful tool here, it's the best counter to the real powerful tool, the GA.

Do you really think people would stop using the RBF if GA was nerfed a bit. Not really. It is just too good a tattoo. If I did not have a 300M ELB, take a quick guess on what tattoo I would be using.

three4thsforsaken February 7 2010 10:47 PM EST

If GA was nerfed, "perfect" damage becomes less of a big deal. Other forms of damage will be able to be done in a defensive setup. Currently, ROBF is pretty much the only way to run a defensive team. A mediocre offense in any other team would be decimated by GA.

If GA was nerfed, I definitely can see more versatility in strategy. This includes people switching out of ROBF.

Soxjr February 7 2010 11:07 PM EST

Ranger you also said that if there ever was a salvage yard you would be a SoD user because it was so much better than the elb without the archery thing, but yet you haven't changed your weapon yet, so really can we take your matter of fact statement that if you didn't have a 300 mil nw weapon you would for sure be using a RoBF tat. I'm not calling you out, I'm just saying that all these statements of how something is so much better than the next is terrible. In my time here the characters in the top 10 have changed a few times and also have changed what tattoo they have used. The ToA used to be the most used tattoo at the top, then something else and then something else and I'm sure that in some future the top 10 will be made up of a different set of tattoos and strategies. It's how the game changes. I think GA is overpowered, but to say the RoBF is overpowered I would have to see a lot more proof than just x people out of the top 10 use it as it's best fight.

QBRanger February 7 2010 11:17 PM EST

I did change my ELB to a SoD for testing.

Now I have to figure out how to overcome the stupid RBF splash damage reduction to permanently use it.

I did not count of so many RBFs being on my fightlist. So many in the top 12.

QBRanger February 7 2010 11:22 PM EST

GL,

So if I agree that 4 minions are too powerful, then will you agree the RBF is also?

Since I do believe that 4 minions are very powerful, especially when one can buy MPR at the upper levels of the game.

So, will you now state the RBF is too powerful?

Or do you use one because it really sucks and is not powerful at all?

Gunny Pew Pew [Red Permanent Assurance] February 7 2010 11:45 PM EST

Yo Ranger, Iメm really happy for you, I'm gunna let you finish. But GL had one of the best musings of all time! One of the best musings of all time!

BadFish February 8 2010 12:17 AM EST

Say Gun, do you like fishsticks?

Rawr February 8 2010 12:21 AM EST

Arguing that # of minions is OP is like arguing that high MPR is OP, isn't it?

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] February 8 2010 12:25 AM EST

I am going to have to agree with you there Rawar.

Wraithlin February 8 2010 1:03 AM EST

For those in the dark. It's not actually an argument, it's a joke about the RoBF thread, the thread starter was called sarcasim.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 8 2010 3:50 AM EST

Not really sarcasm. More a satirical take on the arguement as for why the RoBF is OP.

8 out of 12 of the Top team use it, so it *must* be broken.

That's the same arguement for both.

And no Ranger, while I find them boring, I don't think 4 Minion Teams are OP. I *do* think that there are outside factors that need to be changed, to bring minion spread back into line (like PL, Auras, etc).

But then there are outside factors that need to be changed to bring tatoo useage back into line. GA.

Same Arguement, same problem, same solution.

Nerfing Minion choice to 3 Maximum doesn't solve the problem. Nor does nerfing the Damage of the RoBF.

Both options (4 minions and non returnable 'perfect' damage) offer strategic choices, and both have nothing inherantly unbalanced about them.

Fix the problems, not the symptoms...
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