How do I do this too? (in General)


AbbathorX June 15 2010 11:34 AM EDT

Just out of curiosity, how can I get my dude to have 3900BA to spend during wacky xp time, seems to have worked out for this guy. . . Wacky huge BA I am jealous of

Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 15 2010 11:35 AM EDT

Multiple char transfers.

Kefeck [BlackSmith] June 15 2010 11:36 AM EDT

I don't even want to know how much all this will cost when it's all said and done.

Demigod June 15 2010 11:40 AM EDT

At least the run ends on July 1st. But that is some big money being spent.

AbbathorX June 15 2010 11:40 AM EDT

This explains why I will never do this :o. Too much planning and coordination and whatnot. Well, that and all the cash for transfers and at least two people buying up huge amounts of BA. I just like to hit the enter button ;P

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 15 2010 11:44 AM EDT

It's exploitive of the current system, however considering it's still might be cheaper than NCB ba normally, and is capable of an additional 100k mpr (and huge tat NW) per xfer it's certainly worth it. I consider it a huge opportunity that I can't pass up.

On the positive side, it does encourage cooperation and gets people talking to each other...

Kefeck [BlackSmith] June 15 2010 11:46 AM EDT

"On the positive side, it does encourage cooperation and gets people talking to each other... "

LoL, That was never a problem though =p

{Wookie}-Jir.Vr- June 15 2010 11:47 AM EDT

... and on the negative it's still an exploit that a lot of people consider cheating.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 15 2010 11:52 AM EDT

Yeah, and since it was determined that the price paid was enough of a penalty (by Jon iirc) and it was made clear that my point about it being less expensive than buying 1600 NCB BA (at the time) was seemingly ignored I can't say I feel one bit bad about taking it to a whole new level.

Solare June 15 2010 11:53 AM EDT

Abomination.

{Wookie}-Jir.Vr- June 15 2010 12:00 PM EDT

I never said you should feel bad, but maybe you should think of the example you set on new players with such actions, and even further by such posts.

Ask yourself, if everyone started doing it, would CB be a better or worse place?

How much money was wasted on this venture? How much time? I would be upset if these two things weren't HUGE because I know they were in fact HUGE.

I don't know why it's suddenly ok, and even celebrated. It's funny seeing people post in the congrats thread when I've heard them not even weeks prior getting a good laugh at this venture's expense.

Maybe they are still laughing, who knows.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 15 2010 12:52 PM EDT

The money was hardly wasted, it's achieved a heck of a lot for the investment. Third (soon to be second) largest tat with half a month to go is pretty awesome from my perspective...

If everyone in CB did char xfers and boosted growth... I don't think it'd make a whole hell of a lot of difference. In the past I would have cried for hours over the inability of this scheme to pass the fairness/NWO test, however at this point I'm beyond crying. It's now a historically valid part of the game, not really much could be done outside of a mass reset.

AdminTitan June 15 2010 1:21 PM EDT

After reaching about 4.5M MPR, it's cheaper per MPR to just buy BA, or at least it seemed.

AdminTitan June 15 2010 1:23 PM EDT

If everyone started doing this, CB would be out of liquid cash in 6 months.

AdminTitan June 15 2010 1:25 PM EDT

Totally money spent on this character will exceed 300M when it's done now that I think about it.

{Wookie}-Jir.Vr- June 15 2010 1:38 PM EDT

Hehe, maybe that's what it will take for the cb economy to pick back up :D

QBRanger June 15 2010 2:25 PM EDT

+1000 Solare

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 15 2010 3:19 PM EDT

nice of you to stop by and throw rocks along with the mob Ranger...

BadFish June 15 2010 3:21 PM EDT

Ugh. I was hoping everyone would just ignore him, nov.
For what it's worth, which is not a damn thing, I don't see a problem with this.

FailBoat[SG] June 15 2010 3:23 PM EDT

Jon specifically stated that the cost of transferring the character was the price for this action. Quite honestly, I'm sure it gets stupidly expensive. If you don't like it, try to change Jon's mind and let us know how that works.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 15 2010 3:53 PM EDT

Who?

;)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 15 2010 3:54 PM EDT

(Also, this is just like basing the unavailability of Max AC on it's cost. Then look at Freed and SS way back when...)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 15 2010 3:56 PM EDT

(Or the reduction of the MGS, becuase it would be too expensive to make it reduce too much... Oh look, that was rebalanced...

The trend of balancing thing son thier cost is silly, especially as we generate higher rewrds, the larger we get.

We're bound to exceed the 'expected' cash limitaiton at some point or another.)

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 15 2010 4:11 PM EDT

On the positive side, it does encourage cooperation and gets people talking to each other...

i think cooperative tournaments are a much better way to encourage cooperation that allows the whole community to be involved. something that benefits so few really doesn't add to a sense of community though.

QBRanger June 15 2010 8:18 PM EDT

nice of you to stop by and throw rocks along with the mob Ranger...
It is an exploit. Plain and simple that everyone sees.

While it may be within the limits of the "law" is it really in the spirit of fair competition?

Solare has taken out huge loans to improve his character raise his MPR. I feel that MPR is king. Even with 1B NW, a 3M MPR character will have problems beating one at 5M.

This is just a highly abusive thing that makes any competition, even with USD and NW/PR false.

Have fun at the top with your huge MPR and huge NW. I am sure nobody can compete with you now.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] June 15 2010 8:21 PM EDT

I feel that this should be allowed but that also it seems that people think it costs too little for the amount it gives. If the n*b bonus were factored into the cost of the xfer for the character I believe that would make the cost fit the gain.

Zenai June 15 2010 8:25 PM EDT

Ranger: I will fight him into the ground no matter the size of his char. I do not see this as anything other than a Challenge. Nov threw down the gauntlet, I'm picking it up >:-D

QBRanger June 15 2010 8:26 PM EDT

With CB becoming very cheap, about 2 per million, even adding the NCB cost to the xfer will never be prohibitive.

I have always felt the opposite of Jon, since I actually played the game. Characters are not crap but are the biggest, best part of game and perhaps the biggest reason people win. NW can play a part but cannot compensate for huge differences in MPR.

But then again, I have never liked the thought of character transfers and highly hate the ability to transfer NCB characters. For reason of such abuse as we are seeing with this particular one.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] June 15 2010 8:31 PM EDT

I think 30~mil per xfer would be pretty prohibitive...

AdminTitan June 15 2010 8:33 PM EDT

try 40M per transfer, even Zen would have trouble affording it.

Zenai June 15 2010 8:33 PM EDT

Nat: I agree that would hurt.....a lot!

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 15 2010 9:11 PM EDT

i would rather see a cooldown on character transfers. if you could only do one transfer per character per six months that would fix most of these issues.

Zenai June 15 2010 10:00 PM EDT

Look you want to cool things down well make NCBs non xferable period. Once they are finished then xfers are back on. Although I have to say this is shortsighted to a new degree. Overall everything is a potential exploit in this game it is a matter of reaching it that is all. Remember it the next time there is mention of one......

Demigod June 15 2010 10:04 PM EDT

Demi thinks that if NS allows it, you should make full use of it, regardless of how lopsided the advantage is.

Demi also prefers the idea of non-transferable characters.

QBRanger June 16 2010 12:32 AM EDT

Demi thinks that if NS allows it, you should make full use of it, regardless of how lopsided the advantage is.
That same thinking led to the current financial crisis. Stretching the limits of what is "legal".

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] June 16 2010 12:36 AM EDT

Another way could be to have any character with a n*b is assumed to have 95% of the top characters mpr for determining the xfer cost. This would mean it would always cost that much per xfer unless the character had a higher mpr already or didn't have a bonus.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 16 2010 3:39 AM EDT

Demi thinks that if NS allows it, you should make full use of it, regardless of how lopsided the advantage is.


I don't recall NS commenting on this exploit at all.

Only a very outdated message from Jon saying it was fine due to the cost.

Which hopfully I have explained why it's outdated, and why it's folly to balance on cost anyway...

Solare June 16 2010 9:35 AM EDT

dudemus, that seems like a positive solution. I realize most would probably disagree with a complete ban of transfers, so 1 transfer every 6 months would be a good compromise.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 16 2010 9:47 AM EDT

it would allow people to still transfer a ncb once and get the extra 1600 ba that is possible with that.

one other option would be to only allow the 1600 ba saved up to be used on brand new character or existing characters, not transferred ones. i have no idea which would be harder to implement if this is ever addressed at all. i just wanted to throw some ideas out there.

Demigod June 16 2010 11:46 AM EDT

That same thinking led to the current financial crisis. Stretching the limits of what is "legal".

Huh? The financial crisis? I'll file that under "non sequitur." And it's "legal" according to the current standards, no matter how much you or I disagree with it. Again, I'd prefer to see characters become non-transferrable, but I'm not in charge. Making it so that the biggest characters in the game disappear when their players quit would help to avoid stagnation ever so slightly.


I don't recall NS commenting on this exploit at all.

I omitted Jon from the comment as he's pretty much gone. I also didn't say that NS commented on it at all; I said he allows it, which he does.

Demigod June 16 2010 11:48 AM EDT

By "disappear," I meant get retired or surpassed by active players, not deleted.

QBRanger June 16 2010 12:31 PM EDT

Either way it seems this exploits/loophole has been closed

Thanks NS!

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 16 2010 2:23 PM EDT

I said he allows it, which he does

Absence of denying it doesn't mean it was actualy allowed. ;)

As the changelog shows! :P

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 16 2010 7:20 PM EDT

It's been a long day, all I've really got say at this point is that I'm glad a media campaign is still a viable strategic tool on CB. Without threads like this (because honestly, what I was doing has been done a lot before) I might still have a chance at hitting the top 5 during my NCB (something I don't believe has been done much, if at all).

Nightstrike did what he believed was right in this situation, but he wouldn't have done a thing without all of your help. CB is alive, well, and still whining.

I'm going to go drink this day away...

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 16 2010 8:33 PM EDT

Nightstrike said to me today that he made the change because it had gotten "out of hand". I realize he may not have noticed when Nem originally took the top single minion spot using the same method, or when Titan hit 600k on day one doing the same thing, or one of the many other times when DoS or Titan gained 200k in a single big XP and added countless tat levels. It took me buying a char and attempting to make a run for the top to do it. It wasn't that things "got out of hand" because they're been out of hand for two years. Glad the change was made, but claiming it wasn't directed at me is crap. I hope this is the last bit of venting I need, because I'm just right at the edge over this whole mess. Might have been easier if it didn't coincide with finding out that the exemption for 6/20 is just one good suggestion away from being gone...

Seriously, I think I deserve to know what was the final straw, why now? Why today? What specific occurrence caused the change?

Soxjr June 16 2010 9:03 PM EDT

Because you were pushing past the 95% ... ncb was designed for 95% of top mpr. What you was doing could and would have finally passed the top mpr.. That was not the design of the ncb. Just because you have a huge amount of cb and usd to get more cb.. doesn't mean you should be able to pass the top mpr .. like in the example in the other thread. What was to stop zenai or someone else that has a lot of cb, or someone with a lot of usd to do this to a huge extreme. Transfers at every bonus xp time thru the entire length of the ncb? What then. They pass the top mpr by 2 mil mpr? That is wrong and not designed at you at all. The difference with your examples is where did those characters end up? Yours still has 2 weeks left and if things kept going where would the character have ended, could it have broken the top spot? Even if it couldn't if you would have started the transfers and people saving ba up a few weeks earlier, then yes you could have passed the top spot and that is what drew the attention and finally pushed it to the point that it had to be fixed. I hope this rambling makes sense if not, I will try again later.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 16 2010 9:08 PM EDT

My point is that I said that would happen years ago and it was declared "ok"... when someone broke 600k on day 1 of the NCB it was ok... but when I get involved... suddenly it's "out of hand".

AdminTitan June 16 2010 9:08 PM EDT

Yeah sox, now we'll never break 70%. ( I swear if GL responds to this, I will lose it.)

QBRanger June 16 2010 9:10 PM EDT

Seriously, I think I deserve to know what was the final straw, why now? Why today? What specific occurrence caused the change?

4k BA during xp time at 5.2M MPR with more than 2 weeks left on the NCB.

That is what prompted the change at this specific time.

AdminTitan June 16 2010 9:11 PM EDT

4000k BA, lol, that's easy, try 9000k. Also, why are you still here?

Soxjr June 16 2010 9:16 PM EDT

Titan the character is already at 86% of the top mpr. If you are talking about future ncb characters, then I already stated that a discussion was needed to try to fix that problem, but this wasn't the solution, because with the method you guys were using you would have passed the top spot.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 16 2010 9:16 PM EDT

Ranger: that's pretty much exactly the circumstance that surrounded the initial threads when Nem and 3/4th did this...

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] June 16 2010 9:18 PM EDT

I am pretty sure if we had had a bit more money back then and the original 3 person plan this would have happened back then.

AdminTitan June 16 2010 9:19 PM EDT

Let's not forget it was easier for you guys too, with the 4 months NCB.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 16 2010 9:20 PM EDT

Jon never got reset for saving BA... I don't think so

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 16 2010 9:31 PM EDT

i guess it is all perception. i see the change as more of a culmination of events. two years ago jon was still firmly at the helm and cbd was more expensive and even rarer.

now jon has pretty much dropped off of the radar and ns is assuming more of a developmental role and being forced to look at balance issues more as well. i am guessing that when ns first came along he wasn't necessarily thinking he would be the only dev around and was expecting more of a team effort.

circumstances change both in game and out. i believe there are some other things that are near their breaking point as well. i think that the n*b timeframe will need adjustment again in the near future and that some score may need to be injected back into low level inactive teams to make the early game less tedious for new players/characters.

you can choose to take it personally when these things actually reach their tipping point but i am just gonna be damn glad someone is taking the initiative. as for the characters that have benefitted from it, i would much rather ns spend his time fixing or implementing things rather than trying to identify problem characters and find a fair way of fixing them.

Demigod June 16 2010 9:40 PM EDT

i think that the n*b timeframe will need adjustment again in the near future

You mean a 600%+ bonus is too aggressive? ;)

Maybe the bonus should cap out now and have a couple months of diminishing returns added after the 6 months term. It can provide the same result but end the shock of having a N*B drop off a cliff at the end.

I just hope NS can bring Jon out of retirement to help out. The honey-do list is getting complicated.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 17 2010 4:07 AM EDT

My point is that I said that would happen years ago and it was declared "ok"... when someone broke 600k on day 1 of the NCB it was ok... but when I get involved... suddenly it's "out of hand".

Nov, it's not personal (at least I've never been personal in any thing). I've argued against this, and saving 1600 BA, and gimping characters to fight up, for like, forever.

I argued against it when it was originally theorised. But as has been popinted out (and I've done this on purpose before as it seems to be the onyl way to get corrections made) you have to brake CB for something to be fixed.

And as Sox mentioned it was just this charcater that finally broke the system, and prooved what was theorised, was possible.

Like Clan members purposely stalemating. Or the numerous other loopholes or exploits people have used and abuse din CB prior to this.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 17 2010 4:07 AM EDT

Yeah sox, now we'll never break 70%. ( I swear if GL responds to this, I will lose it.)

Then lose it Titan.

If the NCB *can't* work with abusing an exploit, fix the Bonuses...

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 17 2010 9:40 AM EDT

It had been broken, and I'm fairly confident that if I'd stayed out of it and let Titan finish off the NCB it would have been allowed to finish. The reality is that you have to break CB and get the attention of NS.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 17 2010 10:03 AM EDT

The reality is that you have to break CB and get the attention of NS

Same way with Jon as well mate.

Like when I was a part of stalemating in a clan. We had to do it for a while before Jon nerfed Stalemate rewards to zero.

I'm totally sure this is nothing personal.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 17 2010 10:07 AM EDT

It was draws, not stalemates GL...

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 17 2010 10:14 AM EDT

*whistles*

LoL! There goes my memories! ;)
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