The reduced penalties need to go away :P (in General)


Sickone June 16 2010 8:49 AM EDT

I find it ridiculous that now that I am in 6/20, I can pretty much select just about any target even with a score around half my PR and still not get a noticeably lower reward.

Yes, I realize I am complaining I have it too good (but then again that applies to pretty much every person in 6/20 too, and quite a few in 7/20) :D

Sickone June 16 2010 8:54 AM EDT

If anything, the reduced penalties need to get applied BACKWARDS - most of a penalty (full penalties) for people in 6/20, minimal penalties for people in 9/20, and no penalties at all for people in 10/20.

And while you're at it, you might as well display the ACTUAL (pre-randomisation) reward somewhere in post-battle stats too, since you can calculate it by hand anyway, so whoever is aware of how to do it properly can get a slight advantage at the cost of boring, grueling work.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 16 2010 9:03 AM EDT

Amen...

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 16 2010 9:09 AM EDT

i think this would reduce our clan fightlists down to next to nothing and make burning our ba much more tedious. while more low level players may stay in clans due to not being attacked regularly by higher ups, i fear clan numbers would drop in the 6/20 zone due to the concentrated attacks up here.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 16 2010 9:46 AM EDT

Then change/fix the clan system. ;)

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 16 2010 9:50 AM EDT

ah, i didn't realize we were conjecturing about an alternate reality where dev time is created at the whim of us users! : )

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 16 2010 10:12 AM EDT

We weren't...

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 16 2010 10:21 AM EDT

a proposal is made that breaks current systems. the response is then to change that resultant broken system as well. this would likely create other repercussions that would require even more dev time going on for who knows how long.

realistically with the amount of time jon & ns have to give cb can we as a community really expect vast game changing developments?

one is supposedly in the works but it isn't here yet. we haven't seen a new supporter item in ages. our player base is continuing to decline and many participants in the community do not even have active characters.

it is for all of these reasons and more that i assumed we were merely conjecturing rather than having realistic expectations.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 16 2010 10:39 AM EDT

Why? There are any number of reasons why the current setup exists, and yet you don't even really give a reason why you'd like to see the entire game turned upside down.

Womp June 16 2010 11:37 AM EDT

The top PRs are in the 9-10 million range and the top score is 8.2 mil- all other scores are sub-8 million. Unless my grasp of reward mechanics is wrong, you would begin to level the field in terms of PR (by penalizing people according to how large their PR is)... which strikes me as an undesirable outcome.

QBRanger June 16 2010 1:28 PM EDT

This would be a sort of rolling bonus.

Instead of giving those lower down a bonus, it gives those at the top a penalty.

With respect to clans:

Those with time may lower their fightlist to 2 or 3, while those with limited time may have a list of 6-10 even with the negative. This would give a small bonus to those playing more, which is not a bad thing IMO.

I full support the idea of removing the top exemption and letting every character have a positive or negative challenge bonus. And decreasing the influence of item with increased emphasis on MPR/character. Especially since some recent loopholes were closed.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 16 2010 1:39 PM EDT

Completely changing the end game of CB is a terrible idea, NW-PR has ruined items, crippled char growth, and hindered the economy, and now folks want to extend it to the top. Do we really want to see nothing but all X RoE based ELB users duking it out?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 16 2010 2:18 PM EDT

Having a game where the larger you are, the larger (and faster) you grow is folly.

Especially when it's expected for people to be able to catch up.

It's absolutely terrible design, and any change to it can only help CB...

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 16 2010 2:27 PM EDT

Having a game where you're punished for buying and upgrading items is far far worse.

QBRanger June 16 2010 2:29 PM EDT

Having a game where you're punished for buying and upgrading items is far far worse.
That is a debatable point.

Taking a view of not playing, is it best for the top USD spenders to have all the advantages?

Or is it best for a game to have a well balanced system where upgrading items needs to take into account the cost/benefit ratio? Instead of the upgrade all you want at the top levels without penalty.

Lochnivar June 16 2010 2:32 PM EDT

Or is it best for a game to have a well balanced system where upgrading items needs to take into account the cost/benefit ratio?

Hello mage blender! (and the RoS/RoBF I suppose)

:-)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 16 2010 2:33 PM EDT

Hello free PR Weapon X? :P

Zenai June 16 2010 2:35 PM EDT

nov I have to agree with Ranger on this, there has to be a stopping point and what we got so far has done the trick.

QBRanger June 16 2010 2:35 PM EDT

Loch,

Of course there has to be some mechanism for weapons to compete with magic. Free weapons x is one idea, there are likely others as well.

Zenai June 16 2010 2:37 PM EDT

GL What is the use of a Ton of X if you cannot hit squat because you + is in the crapper? That part is fine where it is. Once we talked about something similar where I agreed that maybe 1/8 of X could be added to PR. This would already be pushing the bar anymore and you are breaking Every Tank Type in the Game as a result.....say hello to Mage/PL Wall Blender.................

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 16 2010 3:14 PM EDT

You don't need + to hit.

+ is just a damage multiplier.

Zenai June 16 2010 3:16 PM EDT

ummm + = Plus-To-Hit<======What is that again GL?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 16 2010 3:20 PM EDT

A damage multiplier.

Zenai June 16 2010 3:24 PM EDT

In an Extremely round-a-bout way yeah I guess you could say that but if I outdex you AND eat your + up with DBs what do you have again?.......ahh yes NO Damage! Nothing can take away the X which is the REAL Damage Multiplier and you know it. Once again GL you are Splitting hairs.

AdminTitan June 16 2010 3:27 PM EDT

Try hitting with an exbow GL...

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] June 16 2010 3:34 PM EDT

About 250 pth is sort of necessary at the top to be able to hit. That adds about 1 mil PR

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 16 2010 3:51 PM EDT

Not splitting hairs.

Z here's an example using an Elbow.

With equal Dex to your target (not outdexing them), you hit at 100%, or you hit once per round, for 100% damage.

Every 100 + you get, then gives you an extra hit each round, or +100% damage, or with a single extra hit x2 damage.

PTH is a damage multiplier.

It's not required to hit.

AdminTitan June 16 2010 3:51 PM EDT

Ok, now think about the exbow.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 16 2010 3:52 PM EDT

At equal DEX to your target? Or you want to bring strategy into the discussion?

AdminTitan June 16 2010 3:55 PM EDT

At equal DX you have around 30% chance to hit the first round. Now suddenly some pth seems needed.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 16 2010 4:07 PM EDT

I'm looking forward to never having to upgrade anything and getting to DE all my stuff in order to compete. Buying and upgrading items sucks anyway, I play CB for the never ending grind, train, then grind some more.

In all seriousness, How is punishing people for having and upgrading items going to help the game? Why is bringing something that in my opinion is currently complicating and crippling the early game to the end game even being considered?

So few folks seem to remember the days when you could rent anything in the store and fight with it on a new char, how much fun it was to hit someone three times your size and win. Now we're asking folks to grasp complicated concepts about PR and NW from the second they join. It's bad down low, and will be worse up high. Restricting competition in the upper ranks seems insane to me, and I've yet to see a good reason for why...

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 16 2010 4:14 PM EDT

Nov, you seemed to agree in the discussion threa dI made. The reaosns are all there...

At equal DX you have around 30% chance to hit the first round. Now suddenly some pth seems needed.

Prefered. Wanted. Beneficial. Yes.

Needed. No.

You can get away with zero PTH, if you want to keep your PR down. But the cost/trade off is there if you don't.

That's the point.

FailBoat[SG] June 16 2010 4:21 PM EDT

I must admit, I find this whole argument amusing. Having switched from an Archer focused team to one that relies on an RoBF, I don't care about the money I make. I rent an AoI and away I go. The only reason my wall does -any- damage is because its my old archer gear. So keep on arguing about how Tanks have it so hard, I'm enjoying Mageblender and realize why everyone else switched to. Its cheap, easy and makes me money.

Zenai June 16 2010 4:59 PM EDT

GL: Still Splitting hairs. One Maybe hit per round is not acceptable in this game whatsoever so why even say it in the first place? + IS necessary to compete period.

AdminTitan June 16 2010 5:00 PM EDT

You need insanely high x, to even equal magic damage if you're hitting once around. And let's not forget with no pth, you're hitting less than once a round, EVEN WITH A ELBOW!

Demigod June 16 2010 5:12 PM EDT

In all seriousness, How is punishing people for having and upgrading items going to help the game? . . . Now we're asking folks to grasp complicated concepts about PR and NW from the second they join.

This is off-topic, but I agree with it. Follow the rule of K.I.S.S. Encumbrance needs to be (somehow) modified to remove the PR:NW complication.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 16 2010 6:04 PM EDT

Zen, you're considering strategy, and other items in this. Remove them form the equation.

We have no idea how many hits Physical to Magical damage is balanced on, and until that's released we have to assume it's balanced aorund zero + (Whether it's at a single DEX based hit at equal DEX, or at multiple hits due to ful DEX advantge, or somewhere in between).

Why?

Becuase otherwise, like X, + wouldn't add PR. For the exact same reason X currently doesn't.

+ is a bonus. Pure and simple. One that's effected by other players items and strategy (And Ranged Penalies...). To counter the bonus it gives.

Zenai June 16 2010 6:09 PM EDT

GL: You HAVE to consider it because this is how the game was built. It is NOT a Bonus it is the Amalgamation of Ranged Weapons AND Ammo then applied to Melee Weapons as well. NOT A BONUS. Stop attempting to take away what IS GL you simply cannot which is why I have said what I said.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 16 2010 6:19 PM EDT

Zen, ask yourself why 'Weapon Allowance' was changed from a total NW + STR;

>Since tanks need NW + ST combined to keep dmg growth up - Jon 2005

To NS's suggestion of removing PTH from the 'Weapon Allowance' and only counting X.

Why was that changed?

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 16 2010 6:48 PM EDT

It's not a trade off GL. It's forcing those who want to compete long term into a particular setup with the lowest PR possible. There isn't a choice...

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 16 2010 6:52 PM EDT

Nov, want me to reopen that debate thread?

If it's really an issue, you can get PTH from low PR armours or for free on a ToA. Or use the fact that you can't reduce PTH below base DEX to ignore it. If you really wanted too.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 16 2010 7:06 PM EDT

"free" are you kidding? Tat PR is the first thing I'm shedding in your new system. Having a never ending source of increasing PR lowering my rewards? Hell no...

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 16 2010 7:14 PM EDT

Don't use one that gives you a never ending source of MPR or NW then...

You *cannot* have it all...

I'll go reopen a debate thread...

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 16 2010 7:28 PM EDT

We did "have it all"... it worked so much better than this.

People bought items, items were rare and sought after... they were even useful for growing characters.

You could have an item that only helped you beat one person and not lower the rewards for every other team you fought.

You talk so much about how it's not fair that items could increase attributes that increase PR without also increasing PR, and yet that's exactly how CB worked when it was most popular. If all an item does is fast forward what I could get from training why the heck would I spend money on it?

Zenai June 16 2010 7:31 PM EDT

Not having a Tat is very Dangerous in this game GL. In case you haven't noticed it yet this is now TatBlender :-/

Sickone June 16 2010 8:26 PM EDT

At equal DX you have around 30% chance to hit the first round. Now suddenly some pth seems needed.

Prefered. Wanted. Beneficial. Yes. Needed. No.

And now add some nice +100 to +150 DBs on your opponent, and opponent with some minor DX advantage and whoops... yeah, you kinda' DO need quite some heavy NW on the + side to actually hit at all.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 17 2010 4:09 AM EDT

Not having a Tat is very Dangerous in this game GL. In case you haven't noticed it yet this is now TatBlender :-/

Yes.

I've rilled agianst this since the original loophole for powerleveling Tattoo's was closed.

Tattoo's are too important, and CB is mostly about who's got the biggest one.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 17 2010 4:10 AM EDT

And now add some nice +100 to +150 DBs on your opponent, and opponent with some minor DX advantage and whoops... yeah, you kinda' DO need quite some heavy NW on the + side to actually hit at all.

Strategy Sick. Apples and Oranges.

Cube June 17 2010 4:33 AM EDT

DBs also boost PR.. Maybe not the amount that they should, but they do.
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