Challenge Bonus is very flawed... (in General)


Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] December 16 2010 2:17 AM EST

The challenge bonus is very flawed and here are my reasons why:

*It's a system that rewards low net worth characters.
*Tanks suffer greatly if they have the REQUIRED high + to hit on there weapons
*If you really want to run a top NCB you won't be able to use a tattoo (Unless you abuse the game in some way).

Now what I don't understand is why limit people like this? This is a strategy game right? If anything the challenge bonus limits strategy, and really makes me wonder what it's original purpose was to begin with.

Now I propose instead of having the challenge bonus your power versus the enemies score. Why not tie MPR into the formula somewhere and make it kind of rolling bonus like, for example the higher your MPR the lower impact it would have on your challenge bonus, and the lower your MPR the better impact it would have on your overall challenge bonus.

It's just an idea but let the discussions and idea's fly!

If people turn this thread into personal fights I will ask admins to hand out fines, consider this your warning. My threads have been taken over one to many times. Thanks :)

QBOddBird December 16 2010 2:23 AM EST

*Tanks suffer greatly if they have the REQUIRED high + to hit on there weapons

Super agreed. I don't understand why tanks, who have to spend their (sometimes) hard-earned CBD on the weapon half of their damage model, are punished for doing so. It just makes no sense to me, and I've noticed it makes no sense to new players, who are stunned to find out that they are punished for investing in their armor and weaponry.

And I agree with your suggestion about higher relative MPR having a lower effect on challenge bonus, lower relative MPR having a higher effect...very good, I like it.

And take this, thread fighters! If anyone turns this into something personal, I will personally ask admins to hand out bannings, and maybe even request your addresses so I can send you hate mail. Or I'll have them send you hate mail themselves.

iBananco [Blue Army] December 16 2010 2:56 AM EST

If anyone turns this into something personal, I will personally ask admins to hand out bannings
Your mother!

Gunny Pew Pew [Red Permanent Assurance] December 16 2010 2:58 AM EST

You lost me at rolling bonus. Sneaky putting that near the end.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] December 16 2010 3:08 AM EST

The Challenge bonus was always there, just never visible..

Sickone December 16 2010 5:07 AM EST

There are so many things that are flawed that...
...meh, why even bother.
Nothing "traditional" like that will ever change, no matter how flawed.

Zenai December 16 2010 7:55 AM EST

Interesting Idea/Concept. I thought about it and for the most part I agree.....not sure I can wrap my mind around an RB Type Challenge Bonus System but eh why not give it a try.

Now what I don't understand is why limit people like this? This is a strategy game right? If anything the challenge bonus limits strategy, and really makes me wonder what it's original purpose was to begin with.

USD Spenders. Honestly a TON of th implementations in CB have been to curb USD Spenders from taking over the game.

If you really want to run a top NCB you won't be able to use a tattoo (Unless you abuse the game in some way.)

Not true! Mages have much less to worry about in that department due to less gear restrictions so a tattoo can be used.

EDIT: If you really want to run a Top Tank NCB you won't be able to use a tattoo (Unless you abuse the game in some way.)

Catdog December 16 2010 9:01 AM EST

challenge bonus has all but killed my desire to play cb. take that for what you will

Xenogard [Chaotic Serenity] December 16 2010 9:22 AM EST

*shrugs* I don't know how I feel about it to be honest, if it wasn't there I don't think it would bother me/make a difference to me, but since it is I fully take advantage of what I'm offered. 98% of my current run I've been doing nothing but 100%CBs, I'm currently up to 4 targets that all give me 100%CB, my growth averages 30-40k mpr most days, and I rake in $250-300k+ a day. All this with an NCB char that only buys BA on XP days, and even then I only buy about half of whats available.

Even my last NCB which was a single archer with a hal junctioned fought at nothing but 100%CBs, and I -was- dumping money into my gear with that setup.

Down low I think the CBs seem to work out nicely for helping claw your way to the top along with the n*b bonus, both working out as they were intended to help push you to the top faster. Its probably once you get to the mid upper range that it really starts to become an issue so I cant really comment on that. But it will be interesting to see how long I can keep it up.

If anything my success has come down to target selection and my CB motto "I don't care about how -many- people I can beat, or how many people can beat me, I care about -who- I can beat and what kind of rewards they give me."

And sienna I'm sorry to hear that :( you seemed to be doing well with your old char.

horseguy001 December 16 2010 9:24 AM EST

What makes it so flawed is the very limited amount of targets to choose from the higher up you go. The score/pr ratio is getting closer to 1 for a lot of targets. I want to cry, and I still have 4 months left on this NCB T_T

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 16 2010 9:28 AM EST

my first problem with the challenge bonus is that the name is misleading. it is actually a challenge bonus / penalty, depending on whether it is positive or negative.

we have had some discussion recently about cb not being friendly to the casual gamer. would it be devastating to the game to just turn off the penalty side of the challenge bonus? in effect reward people for managing their pr but don't penalize them for not doing so.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] December 16 2010 9:39 AM EST

In a competitive game that's still penalizing, just to a less extent.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 16 2010 12:24 PM EST

in my mind it would be much better to reward those who are willing or able to get a positive challenge bonus and not penalize those who will or cannot as opposed to the current system of rewarding those who do and penalizing those who do not. i see that as a pretty big difference that could make the game more casual friendly.

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] December 16 2010 12:27 PM EST

"would it be devastating to the game to just turn off the penalty side of the challenge bonus?"

I like this idea a lot. It would especially help starting players since they can easily dip into the negatives at the start. The only problem I would have with it is it would take away the only penalty of farming lower MPR characters for clan points.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 16 2010 12:30 PM EST

you would still be penalized by slow growth for doing that elite.

BluBBen December 16 2010 12:31 PM EST

And you still get slightly higher rewards for beating higher PR chars, don't you?

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] December 16 2010 12:32 PM EST

At the very least I think turning off negative challenge bonus for 10 ba regen characters is an awesome idea.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] December 16 2010 12:33 PM EST

Yeah, I don't think turning neg off for all realms is bad. It's already turned of for 6, if you're in 7-9 you're probably not in negs, if you're 10, you're probably being hurt by it, but you're still learning.

Zenai December 16 2010 12:37 PM EST

/10 and /9 regen rates I would say.....by then the player should understand the concepts of the game better and be prepared for it.


Just my 2 Cents.....

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] December 16 2010 12:39 PM EST

Yeah, I would just turn it off for 10. Maybe even 9.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 16 2010 1:07 PM EST

ten or nine would be better than the current setup but i like the simplicity of just turning it off rather than having to explain to people why they now get a negative cb.

if it is turned off for the first regen zones, i fear players would not worry about their pr until they are faced with major challenge penalties at which point it really is too late to do much about it without costing the player in some manner.

postponing the frustration helps little when it can be alleviated or having them quit later as opposed to sooner helps us very little in regards to game population. ; )

Catdog December 16 2010 2:43 PM EST

how bout leave pr off completely and give a bonus for clan fighting clan members

Lochnivar December 16 2010 2:51 PM EST

Isn't/wasn't there a 5% bonus for clan on clan action?

Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] December 16 2010 2:53 PM EST

Isn't/wasn't there a 5% bonus for clan on clan action?

Yes there is, but sienna is a new user and I don't think it goes over that in the tutorial.

Catdog December 16 2010 3:25 PM EST

a bigger bonus then?

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] December 16 2010 3:41 PM EST

how bout leave pr off completely

Don't know how many times I've suggested this.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 16 2010 3:51 PM EST

there are realistic suggestions though and unrealistic ones. we have to assume pr was used for a reason. it might be more realistic to expect a tweak to the system that might make it work better or be easier to understand. it also might be more realistic to offer a suggestion that would accomplish the same thing using pr did originally.

just saying remove things we don't like isn't likely to get much of a positive response though.

Shadow Ruler December 16 2010 5:03 PM EST

I recently boosted my elbow, big mistake, and now all my 100% challenge bonus's are like 40% im forging my DB's now in hopes of killing higher mpr characters for a better challenge bonus. So yes this is a major problem among tanks

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] December 16 2010 5:14 PM EST

If you want to remove PR from challenge bonus then you would also have to lower enc by 1/3 to 1/2 and reset scores to MPR also changing score generation to cap at current MPR instead of current PR.

Demigod December 16 2010 5:37 PM EST

If you want to remove PR from challenge bonus then you would also have to lower enc

I'm play with this. I never really understood why ENC doesn't resolve the PR:NW link, but I'm sure there is a reason out there...

Demigod December 16 2010 5:37 PM EST

play = fine. editing fail

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 16 2010 5:58 PM EST

for encumbrance to work instead of pr, it would have to be similarly limiting. what this would mean is that instead of upgrading a weapon and getting less of a challenge bonus the result would be that you take the hit to your stats, skills and magic.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] December 16 2010 6:09 PM EST

ENC should be there only to limit users who acquire CBD through means like purchasing. PR-CB link should be there to reward those that fight people larger than them. I'm fine with both of these. However, in the current system, PR-CB serves to discourage high-net-worth play. I don't see how that's good in any sense.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] December 16 2010 6:14 PM EST

we have to assume pr was used for a reason.

Secondly, this is terrible logic. There have been plenty of games, CB included, where the devs did something for a reason, but it turned out to be a bad idea.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 16 2010 6:34 PM EST

it also might be more realistic to offer a suggestion that would accomplish the same thing using pr did originally.

just in case you missed the rest of my point the first time. ; )

Adminedyit December 17 2010 5:30 AM EST

At the very least I think turning off negative challenge bonus for 10 ba regen characters is an awesome idea.

Even better idea. If we're to keep the bonus/penalty as is then I really think it should be turned back on for the 6BA regen range.
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