Challenge Bonus Not so Important? (in General)

horseguy001 February 17 2011 11:04 AM EST

AK's thread got me wondering.

I have been fighting with my bigger tattoo now that my MTL has caught up to it. I was a little bummed out since that meant a 20% drop in my average bonus since it increased my PR quite a bit.

To my surprise despite having a smaller bonus, my fight rewards have increased substantially. Just look at the last 10 days on my mpr graph, I bet you can pick out when I started fighting with my new tat.

I know higher PR results in higher rewards, but this is a pretty big jump. Does this mean that having as much PR as possible and throwing the bonus out the window would result in a bigger NCB run overall?

AK's bonus is double, even triple mine yet it seems that I am still pulling away from him. Does PR really make that huge of a difference in rewards?

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] February 17 2011 11:15 AM EST

Ask Nat, she's got the most experience with balancing challenge bonus and PR

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] February 17 2011 11:15 AM EST

how much did it change your fight list?

Xenogard [Chaotic Serenity] February 17 2011 11:25 AM EST

As far as I've been able to tell, yes and no. After the many tourneys I've participated in and watching CB% vs PR I've come to realize that more PR does indeed give much greater rewards, but challenge bonus still comes into effect either way.

If you were to have the same PR you have now, but be getting say 70-80%+ bonuses vs whatever you're getting now you would definitely notice the difference based on the high/low gains. The average will tend to be barely noticeable between the two, but its the luck of hitting the highest reward gain + a high CB% that you will notice how much more a high bonus + high pr will give you.

Honestly the rewards tend to be very random, there have been times where 50%s have given me well over what 100%s did just before that, but then I will rake in an extremely high reward on the 100 and an extremely low on the 50.

Higher PR basically effects your base rewards and the bonuses just adds to whatever that would be. It kind of ends up being a dice roll to figure out whether or not your going to get an insanely good gain or a really crappy one, but regardless the highest gain you -could- possibly get will always be greater the higher your challenge bonus, having a high PR along with that makes it that much better.

Meh I hope that makes sense.

horseguy001 February 17 2011 11:42 AM EST

Based on the big jump in my history graph at the precise moment I started fighting with more PR, I would say the evidence is strong that randomness and challenge bonus mean a lot less then a lot of people think.

I added Freed and Dr. Know, and dumped Atomic Boy, but everything else on my list has remained the same.

I'm Going to try renting big weapons and throwing them on everyone for more PR and see what that does to my rewards. If they go up even more then this NCB might get me a lot further then expected :D

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] February 17 2011 11:46 AM EST

was there a ba regen threshold crossed during that time by chance?

horseguy001 February 17 2011 11:58 AM EST

No...I made it to 7/20 awhile ago now.

Xenogard [Chaotic Serenity] February 17 2011 12:37 PM EST

IIRC opponents PR has something to do with base rewards as well, but regardless more PR will absolutely yield more rewards.. but your not seeing what that new pr would give you if you also had a much bigger challenge bonus on top of it, so the results you are seeing are slightly skewed, as now you are seeing better base rewards that outweigh your old base rewards+challenge bonus.

Trust me if you somehow managed to get the same challenge bonus you had before while keeping your new PR you would absolutely notice it after fighting for awhile. What you are seeing now is just a significant increase in the base rewards that you did not have before.

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] February 17 2011 1:18 PM EST

regardless more PR will absolutely yield more rewards...

That is wrong. Higher PR balanced against proper opponents equals higher reward yields. There is a balance to be considered and if it is not then you will never see those higher yields.

Admiralkiller [Cult of the Valaraukar] February 17 2011 2:20 PM EST

If you are comparing your gain to mine, you may take note that I have missed last two xp times but previous to that I have hit them all for a few months

Xenogard [Chaotic Serenity] February 17 2011 3:29 PM EST

I know its a bit harder to see because of the mpr gap, but try comparing it to mine to get a sense of what my constant rate has been while I've been balancing the most pr I can vs the best rewards I can get. I have a very steady constant line, that is roughly equal to the growth rate of the new line you have.

On average my rewards are roughly between 1200-1800 per minion for each fight if that helps any. Bonuses are between 75-85% right now, sometimes 90s depending on peoples scores.

Admiralkiller [Cult of the Valaraukar] February 17 2011 4:25 PM EST

Well I did some basic tests with a large difference between the two factors. A 50% CB and 91% (same farm, different items) and noticed that at that large of a difference it's clear the CB is better to have at 91%

horseguy001 February 17 2011 5:25 PM EST

Comparisons to other graphs aside, just look at the last 10 days of my mpr. You can see the exact point I started fighting with my bigger tat. It's a big increase in the curve, despite getting 20% less of a bonus. Perhaps by sheer luck I have found the "sweet spot", but there is no question I am growing faster then I was with a higher bonus.

AdminNightStrike February 17 2011 6:55 PM EST

I know higher PR results in higher rewards

Where does this rumor come from? So many people keep repeating it, even when I directly say that it doesn't.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] February 17 2011 7:13 PM EST

Evidence disagrees... Nat actually had me testing the results with different PR levels.

horseguy001 February 17 2011 8:23 PM EST

Where does this rumor come from? So many people keep repeating it, even when I directly say that it doesn't.

NS, take a look at my history graph in the last 10 days. That large spike happens when I start fighting with a higher PR and smaller bonus. If higher PR has no effect, then what is the reason for an increase in my fight rewards?

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] February 17 2011 8:30 PM EST

If you want to get into the technical details, your PR can only act as a limiter in your base rewards. It is actually your opponents PR that determines your base rewards. Challenge bonus is simply a multiplier from there. base X 1.xx

horseguy001 February 17 2011 8:49 PM EST

I did add Freed's ~7 mil pr character, but everything else about my list is virtually unchanged. I lost King since he picked up NWO (gratz!). Is that one character edition enough to see such an increase in my graph?

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] February 17 2011 8:54 PM EST

I'm terribly confused

lostling February 17 2011 9:04 PM EST

:) my cb has been rising recently amazingly enough lol its just below 50% now

AdminNightStrike February 17 2011 10:14 PM EST

All I'm going to say is that there's a reason that supporters can sort their lists differently......

Duke February 18 2011 1:57 AM EST

From my experience rewards are base from BA cost. Exception to money on NCB.

miteke [Superheros] February 18 2011 7:22 AM EST

Has your score changed? Score matters far more than PR.

Vicious Cat February 18 2011 8:13 AM EST

The Wiki entry for rewards mentions VPR a lot, but not PR.
As far as I am aware VPR is equipment independent, so it shouldn't matter what Tat you are using.
Score is in there somewhere too, but only as a modifier to CB.
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