Define: Troll(ing) (in Off-topic)


Zenai March 21 2011 10:52 PM EDT

Over the years I have head quite a few definitions on what "Trolling" is and have found what I knew it to be before to not apply now. So as the title says "Define: Troll(ing) , in your own words please not something from a dictionary.

Also note I asked "define" it not "show" it.

I guess basically I would like to know what CB thinks(or agrees) a/orTroll(ing) is.

Unappreciated Misnomer March 21 2011 10:54 PM EDT

To troll is an art of not touching you but getting under your skin.

Admiralkiller March 21 2011 10:56 PM EDT

A troll is a monster beneath a bridge that eats children and lambs.

Demigod March 21 2011 11:07 PM EDT

You know what a troll is: It's someone who irritates others just to rile them up. A great way to troll someone is to call the person a troll, so the insult gets used a TON on the internet in ill-fitting situations.

But it always seems to work...

AdminTal Destra [Forge Of Norn] March 21 2011 11:13 PM EDT

A troll cannot control his fingers when typing. Most of the time it's disrespectful and usually completely unnecessary.

Gunny Pew Pew [Red Permanent Assurance] March 21 2011 11:17 PM EDT

QBOddBird March 21 2011 11:45 PM EDT

It's In the damn wiki, look it up everyone

rusty March 22 2011 12:01 AM EDT

Zenai I read you all over forums and you seem like your having fun. lol. :p

Zenai March 22 2011 12:20 AM EDT

Aule/Gun:
Also note I asked "define" it not "show" it.

OB:
So as the title says "Define: Troll(ing) , in your own words please not something from a dictionary.

Kingkiller March 22 2011 1:12 AM EDT

Personally I find a troll as someone who just instigates (push buttons) people into arguments, ultimately a troll thrives for people to lose control in one form or another.

QBOddBird March 22 2011 8:36 AM EDT

The Wiki is quite obviously not a dictionary, and the definition is provided there for the exact reason you have made this thread

QBOddBird March 22 2011 8:57 AM EDT

http://www.carnageblender.com/wiki/Unofficial+FAQ#2

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] March 22 2011 9:07 AM EDT


Oh, 'Birdie, that's not good enough! It specifically references chat, so the definition on the boards might be totally different.

Also, that definition is based on intent, and one can always claim one didn't _intend_ to be a hemorrhoid, but was just born that way.

Zenai March 22 2011 10:03 AM EDT

OB: Is the Wiki in every single persons own words? No that is a written down definition maybe at the consensus of a few. It is old, outdated, completely subjective(nebulous I would say) and as Bast sarcastically pointed out is only directed at chat.

Getting it out of the Wiki is pretty much the same as getting it from a dictionary. Now if a lot of people agree with the definition that is fine, however, I want to know what they think. Not everyone's thoughts are exactly the same even if they all agree on a similar definition.

MissingNo [Battle Royale] March 22 2011 10:19 AM EDT

Demigod March 22 2011 11:08 AM EDT

This post has nothing to do with Zen, as I don't consider him a troll. However, seeing the trollface with Zen's icon above was just asking for it.


Photobucket

rusty March 22 2011 11:26 AM EDT

lol. That was pretty funny Demi. :)

Zenai March 22 2011 11:39 AM EDT

/me feels violated *curls into the fetal position and shivers crying*

Kingkiller March 22 2011 12:57 PM EDT

Humor is good for the soul :D

King March 22 2011 1:17 PM EDT

Troll.
Verb
1)To fish by trailing a line, as from a moving boat.

Noun
1)A supernatural creature of Scandinavian folklore, variously portrayed as a friendly or mischievous dwarf or as a giant, that lives in caves, in the hills, or under bridges.
2)The act of trolling for fish.

rusty March 22 2011 1:47 PM EDT

Man.. king I was just about to say the fishing one. lol.

Zenai March 22 2011 8:29 PM EDT

Ok since I have obviously not made myself clear on exactly what I meant when I said define Troll(ing), although the first set of posters figured it out; I'll make it clear with posting an example of definition type I am looking for:


A person who, for whatever reason, uses subtle or agressive tactics with malicious intent in an attempt to elicit a negative response from a person/group of persons. This person does not have to use profanity, or direct insults or even be successful in their venture simply the attempt is all that is necessary. The place or target for Trolling can be any form of back and forth communication. The most common places are Chats, Forums or any type of Public Communication that can be accessed via the internet such as Message Boards.

Unappreciated Misnomer March 22 2011 8:33 PM EDT

This thread is trolling along nicely!

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 22 2011 8:38 PM EDT

with as much history as some of us on cb have with each other, it becomes quite easy to bait one another in very subtle ways.

unfortunately that makes it so that any definition of trolling then becomes: does someone feel trolled? that can then turn into, well i don't like someone so they must be trolling me because they sure pissed me off just by posting in my thread.

this is why i often tell poster to take issues private, without the audience if it is trolling it usually becomes less fun.

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] March 22 2011 8:47 PM EDT


Oh, pft. It's even funnier when they get all insane in the PMs.

Gunny Pew Pew [Red Permanent Assurance] March 22 2011 9:02 PM EDT

To an extent.

Zenai March 22 2011 9:09 PM EDT

I have to agree with Bast at least partially. PM/CMs usually give far more freedom for abuse and in some cases is the actual aim of the Trolling. Aside from that Dude it really doesn't matter if it falls into the line of "they did it on purpose" then they are still trolling subtlety has no free pass. Everyone knows that they are not liked by someone, trolls while knowing this purposefully do whatever they can to get a response, including just posting in a persons thread. As long as they get their kick it's all good, to me it seems like it's a drug that they are addicted to because of the thrill it gives them.

Demigod March 22 2011 9:48 PM EDT

Everyone knows that they are not liked by someone

Everyone likes me. I'm freakin' awesome.
::points at self with thumbs::

Zenai March 23 2011 7:58 AM EDT

Everyone Demi there is no exceptions not even you my friend.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 23 2011 9:45 AM EDT

private messages, from a specific user, can also be set to "ignore" status. so if someone feels abused in private they always have the option to set that up. this in conjunction with admins telling people in flame / troll wars to take it private is really the best solution we have.

Zenai March 23 2011 10:28 AM EDT

private messages, from a specific user, can also be set to "ignore" status. so if someone feels a in private they always have the option to set that up.

True but this feature does not exist for Forums. No one likes to be Publicly Abused.

this in conjunction with admins telling people in flame / troll wars to take it private is really the best solution we have.

No it is not the best solution, it is the easiest one for Admins since the do not have to do anything but drop that line. Don't get me wrong I understand they have a life and other things to do but in the same breath they can take the time to tell whoever that line they can also do something else.

The best solution it to make it stop, prevent them from posting. Send some trolls to the timeout corner for a few days and I guarantee you that either they will stop or they will have to be banned because they will not stop. In both instances I'm fine with it since the crap will stop. You cannot troll if you do not have the means to do so.

In the same turn the person getting trolled will be able to take a breather and will have time to calm down. Honestly when I get trolled give me a day or two and it's done, unless of course they start in on me again.

Put a few definitives down, set up the boundary and stand your ground. I would prefer to lose a few trolls rather than have no one but the most hardcore players and the trolls still here. The objective is to grow, you cannot grow if you allow trolls autonomy people see it and will not want to stay whether NPs or Vets. People just do not want to deal with the crap and honestly they shouldn't have to no matter where they are.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 23 2011 10:35 AM EDT

so if someone tells me they think you are trolling by creating this thread then i should forum ban you for a few days? that is what i was pointing out earlier, people can feel trolled by just about anything, especially if it gets someone they disagree with banned.

Zenai March 23 2011 10:50 AM EDT

so if someone tells me they think you are trolling by creating this thread then i should forum ban you for a few days?

Well if you and the other Admins deem it to be so then yes being an understanding and upstanding member of the community I would accept it. Sometimes the angry person needs a timeout too.

that is what i was pointing out earlier, people can feel trolled by just about anything, especially if it gets someone they disagree with banned.

I got that from the start dude my point was that inaction is worse. Do it on a case by case basis as it, in my honest opinion, should have been done from the beginning.

Zenai March 23 2011 10:59 AM EDT

Sometimes the person angry from being trolled needs a timeout too.*

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] March 23 2011 1:03 PM EDT


When we have "case by case basis" enforcement, we inevitably get "You're just being unfair, you hate me, look at how I am being singled out!" rants and communal weighing in on things like "consistency" and administerial discretion.

If your point is that we don't need consistency, then why are you asking for a definition? Trolling, like porn, can simply be known when it is encountered.

QBPit Spawn [Abyssal Specters] March 23 2011 1:37 PM EDT


QBOddBird March 23 2011 1:37 PM EDT

Z, the definition example you posted is a re-wording of what's already in the wiki. Did you disagree with me solely for the purpose of stubbornly continuing the "debate?"

For the record, I firmly believe that if some of the community was a little less thin-skinned and stopped looking to accuse others of trolling, there would be no problem to solve, much less define.

Zenai March 23 2011 1:41 PM EDT

When we have "case by case basis" enforcement, we inevitably get "You're just being unfair, you hate me, look at how I am being singled out!" rants and communal weighing in on things like "consistency" and administerial discretion.

That is why we have consistent, fair and knowledgeable duly appointed Admins. It is also the reason why I said if the Admins deem it so then I will accept the punishment. I do not see that as being unfair if a entire group of Admins come to a consensus and say you have done this and here is the punishment for it.

You see if the only standard you have is inaction then problems like this come around. You cannot get away from problems they will always be there, face them, address them and get them solved. Some will not like it but that does not mean it should not be done.

You also cannot use the we cannot act because someone will whine about it either. There will always be someone who will whine about their punishment no matter what. In any type of enforcement you have to adapt or you will fail; Rules have to be Amended, Enforcement Techniques have to be revamped, Interpretations have to be redefined. Nowhere in any of this is Inaction an option nor should it ever be.

If your point is that we don't need consistency, then why are you asking for a definition? Trolling, like porn, can simply be known when it is encountered.

Nice try but no dice Bast, Inaction does not equal consistency it equals laziness which in a closeknit community is an atrocity.

Consistency is indeed a necessity which is why the Admins need to come together and get more involved. Stop being afraid to enforce the rules, make some news ones, polish off the banhammer and draw a line in the dirt.

If the Admins say we are too busy then how about, add in the ignore feature for Forums, Add Forum Moderators(which is what I thought Admins did), and finally add in Thread Bans.


In case no one understands why I am doing this in the first place: What is the use of fixing up a game that no one wants to play because of a consistent troll problem? Player retention will suffer if it is not addressed and honestly we already have a serious problem with it due to many other problems in-game. Many have said it and I completely agree, Community is what makes this game work it cannot succeed if it is riddled with Trolls.

QBOddBird March 23 2011 1:43 PM EDT

I don't feel that the community is "riddled with trolls."

Zenai March 23 2011 1:50 PM EDT

Z, the definition example you posted is a re-wording of what's already in the wiki.

Does it matter OB? Yes as a matter of a fact it does since people/trolls will do whatever they can to point out the holes in things. Bast sarcastically made several good points of it.

Did you disagree with me solely for the purpose of stubbornly continuing the "debate?"

OB this was not about you specifically. However I could ask you a question in turn. Did you post what you did simply to try and shut me and anyone else who would have posted up for whatever reason?

For the record, I firmly believe that if some of the community was a little less thin-skinned and stopped looking to accuse others of trolling, there would be no problem to solve, much less define.

If some in the community were not trolls then people would not feel the need to defend themselves at the first sign of bullcrap. Indeed if this were the case there would be no problem to solve, much less define.

QBOddBird March 23 2011 1:54 PM EDT

Nope, I just find the thread silly when I took the time a while back to chat with ns on the subject and get a definition in the faq for this very topic.

Zenai March 23 2011 1:56 PM EDT

I don't feel that the community is "riddled with trolls."

1 in 100 is too much and I can count at least 7 how many members do we have again? Note this not even counting those that enjoy following the trolls when they get started "Trolls of the Moment".

QBOddBird March 23 2011 1:57 PM EDT

Really? Seven? We must be reading different forum boards, then.

Windwalker March 23 2011 2:01 PM EDT

Soo in a face to face wonder who get's their pie hole shut :)
Is that trolling..?

Zenai March 23 2011 2:01 PM EDT

Nope, I just find the thread silly when I took the time a while back to chat with ns on the subject and get a definition in the faq for this very topic

OB I asked the Community for "Their" definition. If I wanted NSs definition I would ask him and NOT via you.


And honestly I do not care which forums you are reading OB it is really not my concern.

Demigod March 23 2011 2:01 PM EDT

I wouldn't say we have seven trolls. That would indicate that people need forum perma-bans. Most of the time it's just a smaller number who troll only specific people.

QBOddBird March 23 2011 2:05 PM EDT

Fair enough, you did ask the community for their definition: it just seemed from the following posts that you we're asking admins to take the consensus and enforce it.

The implication behind "we must be reading different forums," b t dubs, was that I don't think I could identify seven trolls in our community. I don't expect you to take interest in which forums I read. That would be kind of stalkery, lol.

Fishead March 23 2011 2:06 PM EDT

I had a troll living in the flat below me once. She was an angry lesbian who hated me for being a man. It didn't matter how polite or nice I was to her. She did look trollish so we made her the troll under our steps. She didn't like that title.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 23 2011 2:19 PM EDT

i wonder if any of those seven would define you, zen, as a troll as well?

demi has it right, this seems to me to be more about people not getting along rather than being overrun by trolls.

Lochnivar March 23 2011 2:19 PM EDT

Personally I like to go to the local university and troll first year class discussions... extreme trolling ftw...

That comment, however, lacks any confrontational tone or massage geared to other posters here so it isn't, to my mind, trolling... just a non sequitur.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 23 2011 2:20 PM EDT

damn, i have always wanted a confrontational massage too! ; )

Lochnivar March 23 2011 2:22 PM EDT

see... as an admin you could have just fixed that... instead you chose to take a typo-based trolling approach... I hate you...

ps. massages are better when someone is a little angry...

Zenai March 23 2011 2:47 PM EDT

> Fair enough, you did ask the community for their definition: it just seemed from the following posts that you we're asking admins to take the consensus and enforce it.

Well I can see where is started to deviate from definitions to explanations and even partial debate. Perhaps the thread can be split and put into Debates with another title?

The implication behind "we must be reading different forums," b t dubs, was that I don't think I could identify seven trolls in our community.

Well I think Demi has it right, most of them only go after specific people. Still though that makes them no less trolls and their behavior should not be tolerated.

>I don't expect you to take interest in which forums I read. That would be kind of stalkery, lol.

Agreed......lol

I had a troll living in the flat below me once. She was an angry lesbian who hated me for being a man. It didn't matter how polite or nice I was to her. She did look trollish so we made her the troll under our steps. She didn't like that title.

I can relate got a troll at my job and grrr.

i wonder if any of those seven would define you, zen, as a troll as well?

I'm fairly certain they would since as was pointed out the best way to troll someone is to call them a troll.

demi has it right, this seems to me to be more about people not getting along rather than being overrun by trolls.

Maybe a bit of exaggeration saying overrun but I stand by my point that even 1 in a 100 is too much and we do have more than 1. Besides there are "Trolls for a Day", someone may have a bad day and here it comes. Still though we are just too small of a community to let this kind of behavior slide. Just my thoughts on it.

QBOddBird March 23 2011 2:55 PM EDT

In reference to the "troll for a day" thing, I don't know that is label someone a troll simply for having a bad day and being a cranky poster. that's just having a bad day

QBOddBird March 23 2011 2:56 PM EDT

I'd* typing on the phone is such a pain

AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] March 23 2011 3:07 PM EDT

Trolling

Definition: This thread.

Gunny Pew Pew [Red Permanent Assurance] March 23 2011 3:15 PM EDT

Indeed, as one of the seven, we knew it to be a bridge by the title. ;)

Fishead March 23 2011 3:23 PM EDT

I don't konw about one of seven, but Seven of Nine... My kind of troll!

Zenai March 23 2011 3:35 PM EDT

Having a bad day shouldn't excuse that kind of behavior though.

I also find that their is a huge difference between angry posting and trolling. Angry posting is just that and can get out of hand of course but is not specifically aimed at anyone for any specific reason. They are just mad and are taking it out on everyone, not necessarily excusable but there it is.

Trolling for a day is all about transference. A person has had a bad/terrible day, week or month so they decide to make someone/group of people feel the same way to make themselves feel better. They specifically target with their intent to cause problems.

Just my thoughts on it, I am sure there are many more definitions, meanings or titles for all of this.

Definition: This Thread.

Could you elaborate Fex ?

AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] March 23 2011 3:53 PM EDT

If you are on this forum, on the internet, and you've never been exposed to the act of trolling in a public forum, then I envy you, you have not had the cynicism imbued upon your pure heart.

If you think that carefully elucidating the act or method of trolling will in some way help others to avoid trolling in the future, you are sorely mistaken. A solid definition of trolling will only serve as a guide for would-be trolls to know where the boundaries are, so that they dance along that line, then fall back upon the definition in defense when others call them upon their troll-like behavior.

When you are mean-spirited, when you insult, when you debase, demean, or just plain incite ill-will, chances are very good you are "trolling". Also, if you think there will ever be a solid definition of "trolling" you are wrong, as trolls are very skilled at their craft.

Zenai March 23 2011 5:58 PM EDT

If you are on this forum, on the internet, and you've never been exposed to the act of trolling in a public forum, then I envy you, you have not had the cynicism imbued upon your pure heart.

It does not mean just because it is there that it should be tolerated Fex. It's no different than bullying in schools. Yes it is there but just because it is prevalent does that make it okay? Does than mean steps should not be taken to stop it from occurring? What about disciplinary actions taken for those that are caught in the act? No I apologize but my ideas and thoughts on this subject are specific and as such will take more than, in my opinion, a cop-out answer.

If you think that carefully elucidating the act or method of trolling will in some way help others to avoid trolling in the future, you are sorely mistaken.

I am not deluded I know it is not enough Fex. Despite the way I come across at times I am far smarter than that, this is a type of war so to speak and nothing truly prepares you for it.

A solid definition of trolling will only serve as a guide for would-be trolls to know where the boundaries are, so that they dance along that line, then fall back upon the definition in defense when others call them upon their troll-like behavior.

I am not so foolish to think they would not try to use the most basic of tactics to defend their abhorrent behavior. All I was looking for was to see what each person thought Trolling is and how close each persons definition was.

When you are mean-spirited, when you insult, when you debase, demean, or just plain incite ill-will, chances are very good you are "trolling".

Thank you for your definition.

Also, if you think there will ever be a solid definition of "trolling" you are wrong, as trolls are very skilled at their craft.

Does that mean Admins and Moderators cannot also be just as Skilled? No my thoughts are to consistently update information because it will always evolve.


Also I was just plain curious, partially because people kept trying to tell me I had no understanding of the definition of trolling. So if I get others thoughts on it and many are the same or very similar then I obviously do know something about it.

Shadow Ruler March 23 2011 6:15 PM EDT

i've ben trolled so hard once i accidentaly

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] March 23 2011 6:28 PM EDT

Ugly green creatures that you have to kill with fire or else they come right back.

Fishead March 23 2011 6:30 PM EDT

If you kill them with fire, how do you make armor from their skins?

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] March 23 2011 6:32 PM EDT

You only have to do 1 point of fire damage after you've already chopped them up. Just scorch the heart a bit.

Fishead March 23 2011 6:36 PM EDT

mmmmmmmmm... Pittsburgh rare troll hearts

MissingNo [Battle Royale] March 23 2011 8:08 PM EDT

Verifex hella trolled this thread. XD

Demigod March 23 2011 10:27 PM EDT

Can we call it trolling if it's just thread hijacking?

This thread is now about cats.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 23 2011 10:53 PM EDT

troll?

Gunny Pew Pew [Red Permanent Assurance] March 23 2011 11:32 PM EDT


Ugh! That sucked! Readers with older neighbors beware.

Pwned March 24 2011 12:09 AM EDT

I get trolled whenever I make a thread. You know who.

Godpanda March 24 2011 7:49 AM EDT

These kinds of threads helped kill my interest in CB.

Zenai March 26 2011 1:46 PM EDT

Yeah me too. Several days away and the only thing that made me want to sign in was to agree with your post GW. Sadness.

Lord Bob March 26 2011 2:01 PM EDT

Ugly green creatures that you have to kill with fire or else they come right back.
If you kill them with fire, how do you make armor from their skins?
Actually this works out to the crafter's advantage. Just capture one troll and skin it daily. As long as it never touches fire, it will regenerate, yielding an endless supply of material.

Troll March 26 2011 6:06 PM EDT

There may be 7 different trolls in the forum, but how many of them are from the same person?

Z, thanks for posting this, I've been wanting to read a thread about trolls trolling trolls for awhile! My heart is content <3

Fishead March 26 2011 6:08 PM EDT

Hi Dudley

Demigod March 26 2011 6:20 PM EDT

Dudley only does ineffective trolling. I doubt anyone is affected.

AdminShade March 27 2011 3:33 PM EDT

There may be 7 different trolls in the forum,
but there is only one who is banned at this moment, bye dudley.
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=003Avo">Define: Troll(ing) </a>