Question on ENC (in General)

QBRanger September 25 2011 12:02 PM EDT

Net Worth: $870,745,688
Encumbered at: 231,029,319

The tourney allowed for a lot of experimentation.

I would think this minion would be over 1.0 ENC. But it is only .72 ENC, letting me still do enough damage with a x7000 exbow to completely drain any tank I hit.

This is NOT about the exbow per se. Should being over double your ENC make you lose all str?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 25 2011 12:07 PM EDT

when i played just a jigoro, you can totally get around enc with the amulet of junction. i was actually trying to think of a way to use that in the tournament but it just really didn't lend itself to getting a familiar large enough to do much with especially the jiggy.

QBRanger September 25 2011 12:11 PM EDT

Using junction is a known method of getting around ENC. A part of the game.

In the tourney I had thought of using junction and piling on NW that way. But I thought, correctly, that the tattoo level and MPR would not be high enough to fight up that high.

So I used the cheap way of winning.

But back to the OP. Why is not double your ENC = 1.0?

Xenogard [Chaotic Serenity] September 25 2011 12:13 PM EDT

I think it has something to do with the fact that ENC has a linear penalty, but honestly I don't know the specifics on it.

Also ENC doesn't affect the x or + of a weapon, I'm sure you already knew that, just clarifying for anyone that didn't.

QBRanger September 25 2011 12:15 PM EDT

Yes. As ENC lowers DD, I do strongly think it should effect PTH and weapon x as well as strength.

If ENC was truly designed to lessen USD influence.

Great point Xeno!

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 25 2011 12:16 PM EDT

do you remember what your str and dex were by chance after encumbrance was applied?

QBRanger September 25 2011 12:22 PM EDT

Do not remember dex. I think it is unaffected by ENC.

Str went from 7.5M to about 2.2M. ENC was 0.72.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 25 2011 12:25 PM EDT

well that isn't how it is supposed to work according to the wiki. i will look through the changelogs though to see if i can find any other changes or the original description.

Xenogard [Chaotic Serenity] September 25 2011 12:26 PM EDT

I actually agree with you there, though I believe the reason it doesn't affect the x and + of a weapon is because ENC only has a penalty to things that revolve around trained XP.

You could look at it from this perspective as if your minion/character were real. Your minion is over burdened, so its sluggish, its using most of its strength just holding up what its carrying, and is not nearly as effective with its body/mind. However his weapons regardless of how he is doing, will always remain at their level of effectiveness. His being burdened doesn't make his weapons weaker, it makes him weaker.

Anyway that's just looking at it from a D&D like perspective. Not saying I agree with it, just saying I see the reasoning behind it.

QBRanger September 25 2011 12:29 PM EDT


I could be wrong about not getting a dex penalty. I did not pay attention due to using a missile weapon when all my battles went to melee anyway with that huge penalty.

But how is that not working otherwise as per the wiki?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 25 2011 12:30 PM EDT

ok, in the original changelog jon states this, not in the first post but farther down the page. so we know where the wiki info came from:

AdminJonathan April 3 2008 1:38 PM EDT
If your encumbrance is nonzero, all the stats I mentioned are penalized by that amount.

So if you have 1000 ST and 20% encumbrance your effective ST is 800.

now to see if anything changed since that time regarding it.

QBRanger September 25 2011 12:31 PM EDT

7,600,000 str x .28 = 2,128,000

That part worked.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 25 2011 12:32 PM EDT

the wiki says you should be penalized by the amount you are encumbered by. that is the part that i am saying isn't working as the wiki, or jon, originally stated. 1.00 should be 100 percent encumbered so your str should be 20 or zero, not sure which but def not >2m.

Xenogard [Chaotic Serenity] September 25 2011 12:32 PM EDT

I can confirm there there is indeed a dex penalty when you are over ENC.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 25 2011 12:33 PM EDT

ah, i thought you were saying you were at 1.0 but that it only enc as if .72.

i see now. so you are saying instead of .72 you think it should have been 1.0?

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] September 25 2011 12:35 PM EDT

I'm pretty sure 2x your NW is .5 enc.

Xenogard [Chaotic Serenity] September 25 2011 12:35 PM EDT

1.00 should be 100 percent encumbered so your str should be 20 or zero, not sure which but def not >2m.

What he was saying is that for some reason his enc was only .72

Net Worth: $870,745,688
Encumbered at: 231,029,319

You'd think you'd get a 1.0 enc rate for this, but apparently you do not.

QBRanger September 25 2011 12:36 PM EDT


ENC right now, whole linear, allows a lot of overburdening. I though/hoped it was like most fantasy games in where you get a max of 2x your burden till you cannot even move. Much less fight.

Xenogard [Chaotic Serenity] September 25 2011 12:36 PM EDT

I'm pretty sure 2x your NW is .5 enc

This is true, I've been at it before while testing stuff out.

QBRanger September 25 2011 12:38 PM EDT

I think Nat is correct.

2x ENC = .5

3x ENC = .75

4x ENC = .875.


IMO. That is too lenient.

QBRanger September 25 2011 12:41 PM EDT

Either way.

Should it be changed? And shouldbit also effect PTH and weapon x?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 25 2011 12:41 PM EDT

jon did state many times that he hated hard caps, here's another example it seems.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 25 2011 12:49 PM EDT

if i understand the implications correctly this would only really matter much when the weapon being used is a specialty xbow?

QBRanger September 25 2011 1:04 PM EDT

It would matter with bows also. They would have less str but still hit. I played with high ENC with the elb and did a lot of damage even with the ENC.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 25 2011 1:11 PM EDT

it would be quite a reduction in damage though. i don't think that someone should have to disenchant and lose some nw if they happen to upgrade their bow so i don't really see that as a negative aspect of this interaction as much as an option.

AdminNightStrike September 25 2011 8:19 PM EDT

The way it sits, ENC is an asymptotic penalty, not linear. It's a simple ratio of NW and max NW.
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