A part of me just died (in Off-topic)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Pe0d3adb4bI

It is in Japanese, however, the pictures from the video explain it all.

That's one expensive pileup. They had 10 people taken to the hospital but at least no one died. It was a 20 car pileup btw and they were all really expensive sports cars.

=D SUFFER RICH PEOPLE SUFFER.

How about =D SUFFER RICH PEOPLE WHO PROVIDE JOBS SO THE REST OF US CAN LIVE IN A NICE HOUSE AND HAVE THE LUXURIES OF LIFE AND NOT BE ON WELFARE LIKE USELESS SACKS OF TURD SUFFER.

Or we can just keep the topic of the first post and not get into politics.

A) Almost universally, if you can afford one of those cars, you can afford a second one. I have no sympathy.

B) You got into politics. Not me.

C) If rich people provide jobs and so many in this country are so rich (And not being taxed very heavily right now), why is it so hard to find a job?

A) Envious anyone?

B) No, actually with your statement about envy it was pretty obvious you were getting into class warfare

C) Imagine how it would be if rich people provided no jobs. Imagine how many more jobs there would be if there were not all the taxes and the threat to raise taxes? and if we got rid of all the stifling regulations?

Death rates for lead poisoning, airbag malfunction and drunken piloting would skyrocket.

A) I don't like driving. It's funny, if you had said I was being envious of a nice home, or helicopters, or jets or... well, pretty much most "rich" things, you'd have been right. But this is cars and I don't like cars. So, you're wrong and seem really dumb right now (at least in my perspective)

B) It's not class warfare. I just think it's funny that a bunch of people who spent a lot of money on cars wrecked them. A tragedy is when a person who can't afford another car wrecks their's. It's actually a PROBLEM. This is just funny.

C) I'm not getting into this any further. I'm too young and ignorant when it comes to to these things.

All I KNOW is that the taxes were cut heavily in 2000-2001 by George W and the economy has gotten steadily worse. A lot worse. If that means nothing to you, well, then I don't know what to say.

Now this my friends is the CLASSIC strawman argument.

Where have I EVER stated that NO regulation is needed. However, it is too much regulation that is crippling our system.

Just like the statements that all Republicans want to throw grandma off the cliff, or want old people to eat dog food or want more rapes to occur (per Joe Biden) etc...

How about actually listening or reading what conservatives want rather than post these incredible stupid strawman arguments? Would that me too much for our illustrious English overseer to accomplish?

C) Imagine how it would be if rich people provided no jobs. Imagine how many more jobs there would be if there were not all the taxes and the threat to raise taxes? and if we got rid of all the stifling regulations?


You said that. Notice the "all". And considering that all regulations could be considered stifling...

Well. You did say all, didn't you?

Yes, your youth shows in that statement.

First, We had over 55 months of steady growth in the economy after those tax cuts.

Second, Revenues to the government increased despite the tax cuts. Seems backwards but everytime we enacted a tax cut, revenues rise. Laffler curve Bueller? JKF, Reagan, Bush all cut rates and saw revenues to the government increase.

Third, We are in the current situation due to factors that have nothing to do with the tax rates. It was due to sub-prime mortgages and the system that gave AAA ratings to those bundled mortgages.

Under Reagan, who cut rates immensely, revenues rose and GDP growth at this time in his presidency (compared to Obama) was over 7% compared to the present 2.5%. Why? with lower tax rates, incentives for prosperity increased. Leading to more expansion of the economy and more jobs created.

Going all in on the strawman argument are we now?

Did I type all regulation? Nope, of course not. Not all regulation is stifling. I would think anyone could understand that basic fact. And one wonders why debates cannot happen in CB.

Regulations are, by definition, stifling to someone. Otherwise they wouldn't be used. This isn't a strawman argument. You used improper wording. Just accept it and correct it instead of trying to turn the english language into something it's not.

When Bush left office, the economy was awful. Blame what you want, but don't pretend that lowering taxes helps anything when taxes were so low when it got bad.

OMG. If you persist on parsing words, then no discussions will occur. I could in each post put "Regulations that according to Ranger and most small business owner think are stifling", but that would make for very long posts. How about using basic understanding and assumptions that most people would know?


Again, you completely misunderstand how the economy got to its current state. It took me a lot of research and reading to understand it myself. However, the Bush tax cuts have little to do with our current state. It is the massive increase in spending under the later years of the Bush administration massively increased during Obama that is the cause of our current deficits.

Bush, with his tax cuts, actually pulled us out of a recession in 00 and 01 that followed Bill Clinton. And lead to 55 consecutive months of economic growth, a record.

As we say in the medical profession, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

I assure you, our "basic" assumptions about things would be terribly different. You seem to assume that effort is the sole factor in wealth. That's the kind of thing that makes assumptions dangerous among people with different beliefs.

Never said sole. But major yes.

There are other factors, of course, involved.

Ranger, I never recall people born into wealth needing to put effort into being wealthy. Is it my memory that is flawed?

"Bush, with his tax cuts, actually pulled us out of a recession in 00 and 01 that followed Bill Clinton. And lead to 55 consecutive months of economic growth, a record"

Ranger, I don't understand how you attribute GDP growth to tax cuts whilst agreeing there was a huge credit bubble during this period.

well if i was going to be in a pile up or had to wreck a nice car in a news worthy way id love to have done it like those people ... they can now also go on advanced driving courses together along with therapy

Only 20% of people are born into millionaire type wealth.

http://www.thomasjstanley.com/blog-articles/237/What_Percent_of_Your_Neighbors_Inherited_Their_Wealth.html

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/pf_article_110333.html

Hence my major not sole. Other factors include but are not limited to birth, luck, education and family.


Yes, it is very difficult to separate the two. The tax cuts and the credit bubble. However, we still have the JKF and the Reagan tax cuts that massively stimulate the economy out of recessions. While our current president took the opposite approach and the "recovery" is one of the worst on record with a 2nd recession looming.

Aside from anyone being injured.. I laughed. I guarantee those things were flying when they wrecked.

I watched the clip... and I thought 'awww'

I continued to read the thread and thought 'awwwww fer crying out loud'.

Given that these are Italian cars in Japan I fail to see what relevance there is for George Bush's tax cuts... or the US economy in general.

Beautiful cars, pity to see them trashed.
Such are the perils of speeding (yeah, if you obliterate alloy rims you probably were going prohibitively quickly).

In my defense...

I'm at work and bored.

Oh man, that sucks so much

Not really. I have spaghetti.

;P

I meant the cars >.> I saw the first few replies to the thread and decided just to view the youtube link

damm i thought 1 person next to ya died
thank god nooo

Ranger. I have to nitpick. I really do.
If Bast was making an actual argument she would have followed up with another post after your comically ironic accusation of strawman. She didn't have to twist your words, GW pointed out why, nor did she make a false assumption based on the fantasy you proposed. I had to read up on fallacies having dealt with you in the past. Strawmen also never address the proposed topic. She addressed the one specific with the consequence. Apologize to her now.

All else that flowed from there on was bad. =/
This could have stayed in links if only you might have said,"Inhuman socialist bigot! Think of the cars! Think of the beautiful sexy cars!" rather than spin off into the next dimension like we're reliving Lost in Space. I'm likely flaming the dead issue, but stop turning every peanut into a bare knuckle bar brawl.

And you know this how? Perhaps she had enough of the thread after posting that comment? Or possibly after? I cannot know what she thinks or feels? But certainly you do, huh?

Of course it is a classic strawman. In this case using it for attempted comical effect.

Per the wiki:


Me stating 'rid of all the stifling regulations'
Her implying that death rates go up do to no regulation or lax regulation.

In the context of the discussion up to that point, it was obvious I was typing about. And we both know Bast is very articulate and very intelligent. Maybe if GW posted Bast's comments, he would have a point about all regulations being disruptive. But certainly not Bast of all people.

You seem to be selective on what point of view you repost. Especially ever since I called you out via a CM as someone who can dish it out but cannot take it in return. Since then at every opportunity you take the opposite view of whatever I post and do it very vocally and very nastily.

The rest of your post is based upon theses false assumptions. No need for me to even respond to it.

Straw men are made by taking dried cereal plants and forming them into the shape of a human being.

The more you know :)

However,

If Bast truly did not understand what I meant by "stifling regulations", and thought that I really wanted kids to die of lead poisoning, airbags to malfunction, and drunk pilots in the sky; I do sincerely apologize.

I have always stated in numerous other threads, that I assumed Bast had read due to her posts in some of them, that some regulation is certainly needed.

However it is the excessive regulation that I abhor. Regulations that stop businesses from expanding and hiring more people.

If Bast really thought I was that bad of a person to want kids to die, people to get crippled in car crashes and pilots to crash planes, I do very much apologize to her for misinterpreting her statement. But would hope she could one day understand the conservative viewpoint.

I don't how anyone (rich or poor) can take pleasure in someone else's unfortunate circumstances.

I'm ashamed someone would actually say this callous remark: "I have no sympathy." in regards to the people/owners involved in this wreck.

I don't feel sorry for drunk drivers who get in accidents or people who jump on rakes and break their nose, either. Want me to feel bad about that?

These people weren't victims. They were idiots who got exactly what they were asking for. I'm not saying I wanted them to suffer or die or even be inconvenienced. But, from what little I saw, it seems to me that they got exactly what they wanted.

Actually Badger since we are of course nitpicking at verbiage, you stated "=D SUFFER RICH PEOPLE SUFFER.".

There was nothing in that statement about intent. One can then possibly think you did not care about cause and were just celebrating the fact that the "rich" had an unfortunate and nasty occurrence.

But I have 1/2 a brain and know full well you do not cheer innocent people getting hurt. Such as your drunk driver analogy.

I thought the drivers in the video were lucky to be alive and then I am sort of happy their "toys" were demolished.

There are some basic assumptions it is recommended when discussing things with people. One is that were are not heartless no matter our political or religious leanings.

So now it's a matter of getting what you deserve?

So if someone doesn't try to improve themselves then, you get what you deserve by having a job working at McDonald's right or no job at all because you have no worthy skill set??

Those that do have a worthy skill set gained by a college education are deserving of their money.

So then why do you want to keep taking from the rich when obviously they are getting what they deserve in monetary compensation?

When according to you the Rich and the Poor are both getting exactly what they deserve right??

Rich people are rarely innocent :)

Explain yourself, cause If they were as "rarely innocent" as you want to make them out to be, then they'd not be getting what they deserve?

I guess only the poor are hit with bad luck. For the "rich" it is always their fault? A car crash can never be the fault of someone else? The "rich" never slip and fall? The "rich" never have accidents as it is almost always their fault.

See where I am going with this?

I should clarify. If a bunch of poor people had been doing the same thing, I wouldn't have been sympathetic. Or happy.

But to be honest, a bunch of rich people speeding in expensive cars getting in a wreck THRILLS me. Genuinely makes me happy.

Know why? Because when poor people do it, they run a whole bunch of risks. They lose their car, they lose their job, they can lose their life. They can lose everything so easily from this dumb mistake. In other words, they run the same risk of loss as anyone THEY hurt who wasn't being a complete idiot.

When a rich person does this, all they risk is their life. They can be in the hospital for 3 months and be fine because they have savings accounts with positive numbers. They can buy a new car, no problem.

They force a GREATER risk than they themselves bare on the people around them.

They should all go to jail and permanently lose their license. Let them understand risk a bit better.

And this, in general, is why I despise rich people so often and so rarely met one I didn't end up disliking. If rich people are so deserving of their wealth, than shouldn't they be smart enough to NOT do these things? If they can lead our country and our companies and have the best things in life, can't they at least NOT do the stupidest possible things imaginable to get an adrenaline high?

I laugh at them because I can't physically hurt them. Not really a bad trade for anyone involved. Because while they won't go to jail for risking the lives of everyone in nearby, I certainly would for actually punching one of them.

Rich people screw poor people for fun and comfort. /end

I hope your cynicism does not eventually consume you.

I know a lot of good and bad rich people. I know a lot of good and bad poor people. The good outnumber the bad vastly in both cases.

Hate to be the one to tell you this but there are very good rich people. Bill Gates and his foundation. Same with Warren Buffett. And countless others who give generously of their time and money.

And all the small business owners who employ people. But I hope you do not think they are "screwing" over the poor people by just using them. They pay a fair wage for a fair days work in most cases.

I employ a lawn service, nanny and pool service. I pay then fair wage for good work. I guess I would be one of your rich people screwing over the poor for laughs.

I just hope that huge chip on your shoulder does not hold you back from your potential.

*Read GW's last post*

Now a part of me just died... the one that had faith in humanity...

Aren't you temporarily homeless?

I just accepted an offer on the house. I have till Feb 5th till we actually close.

Moving to Phoenix later this month.

Till then I have to make sure the house is in good shape. The nanny was going to move with us to Phoenix but could not due to personal reasons.

Some rich men work harder at easing their conscience than others. That's all it is.

We live in a society where people die from an illness because they can't afford the cure. Not that the cure doesn't exit, or is simply too far away. They just can't AFFORD it. They weren't lazy or stupid or unskilled in the area they chose, they just didn't happen to pick an area of expertise that would make them enough money to afford a six figure operation to save their life one day.

You call me cynical. Maybe that's right. But I do NOT believe that anyone should be living in a 30 room mansion while someone else dies from a completely preventable illness.

I don't care what you do for the world. No one is that important.

anything that is an advantage to someone is a disadvantage to someone else by nature, GW

Are you suggesting that we should not take the advantages presented to us in life?

how can a car accident turn into a discussion about who started with politics? ._.

The part that died wasn't the one we were hoping for.

See,

Finally we get some real humor!!!

Wow.. a group of morons wrecked like 6+ porsches due to their own recklessness and lack of judgement.. and you guys are debating US politics and rich people in this country in particular.

Its reasons like this that I face palm and stay away from the forums now.

A convoy of luxury cars including eight Ferraris, a Lamborghini and three Mercedes-Benz vehicles ended up in a pileup Monday... no mention of Porsches

In English.

Itﾒs hard to gather what models were involved but from this local news footage we can see the wreckage of several 355s, a 360 Modena, and an F430. Sadly, due to the severity of the crash, most of the cars are likely to be written off.

Well that shows how little I care about luxury sports cars.

Which part died? We all know which part luxury sports cars are connected to :)

+3 fishead, poor scarecrow ;)

Why the heck is there a post about a car crash even here - let me dig out some footage of the one in the west of englanda month or so ago - it was much more interesting as many of the people were burned alive.

Wait there were no Ferraris involved - oh well wont bother then.

Sorry, but in my opinion its in very poor taste.

I feel comfortable saying that had someone died in the crash Ranger wouldn't have made this thread...

I don't see it as poor taste. If someone made a thread about Monets being destroyed in a museum fire it would be the same thing. Sure fires have killed people but the fact that the one in question hadn't allows us to move on and reflect on the artistic loss.
(and yes the Ferrari 360 Modena is artistic!)

People dont have to die to have their lives ruined

What that crash was horrific, I'm more sickened by the yob dropping concrete onto the A12 from bridges crossing it. :(

In a vain attempt to lighten this thread;

Was I the only one to think "Where's Vin" after watching the youtube video?

According to wiki, the VIN is stamped (or at least partially) on many parts of the vehicle. It can also be etched on the glass.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VIN_etching

The Ferraris should start the VIN with something in the range ZA-ZR as they are Italian.

None of the views zoom close enough to find VIN...

Hopefully this has helped answer your question.

New reports are coming in. Apparently Vin Diesel managed to get away, but there were lots of explosions as he dove for safety.

It is 'dived'.... dove is a bird.

Any word on Paul Walker btw?

He wasn't there.

He thought the DK in Drift King stood for Donkey Kong, and was busy shopping for a Nintendo 3DS. ;)

Donkeyrift Konging?

Or;

Riftdonkey KingKong?