Obama... true? or false? (in General)


lostling March 17 2012 8:53 AM EDT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2POembdArVo&feature=youtu.be

lostling March 17 2012 8:54 AM EDT

im curious after watching this how much of it is true

stabilo March 17 2012 9:17 AM EDT

Without watching it, if it is political then 90-95% are lies.
And that's for 99.9% sure ;-)

QBRanger March 17 2012 12:29 PM EDT

http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2012/03/16/its-a-new-debt-record/

This is all you need to know about Obama.

Lord Bob March 17 2012 12:57 PM EDT

And Krugman? Really?
And Hot Air? Really?

And no, the debt is not the only thing you need to know. The debt is not the entirety of our domestic policy.

Lochnivar March 17 2012 12:59 PM EDT

This is all you need to know about Obama.

Really? Nothing like an informed electorate eh?

BTW, I assume this indignation was present when Reagan, Bush I and Bush II all jacked the US debt to GDP ratio up too? Or is it okay because they cut taxes too?

Lord Bob March 17 2012 1:01 PM EDT

Or is it okay because they cut taxes too?
Thus driving up the debt further.

Lochnivar March 17 2012 1:04 PM EDT

Thus driving up the debt further.

Shhhhush, you'll disturb the cognitive dissonance...

Lord Bob March 17 2012 1:11 PM EDT

They're in the bubble!

QBRanger March 17 2012 1:12 PM EDT

The debt is not the entirety of our domestic policy.

No, certainly.

But it is the major part now. And I remember someone in 2008 promising to cut the debt in 1/2. I think he had a dyslexic moment and meant the reverse. Double it.

QBRanger March 17 2012 1:15 PM EDT

And we have become, under Obama a much more entitlement society. Everyone now expects a bailout:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/saddled-with-college-debt-a-decade-later/2012/03/16/gIQAm3kHHS_story.html?wprss=rss_opinions

That is the Wash Post, a liberal rage for all those out there.

BTW:

Nobody forced this person to go to a private university.

Lochnivar March 17 2012 1:25 PM EDT

And we have become, under Obama a much more entitlement society. Everyone now expects a bailout:

Funny, that article made no reference to Obama... and the girl in the article started college a decade ago (under Bush)... not sure how this has anything to do with the president.

But you are right, there is a deep sense of entitlement creeping into society. It is not related to Obama or even limited to the US though.
Even simple things, like rampant litigiousness or people getting up in arms over gas at $4/gal show that people want what they feel they 'deserve', whether or not those expectations are realistic.

Lord Bob March 17 2012 1:26 PM EDT

Yeah, screw those kids who want to better themselves! They should be saddled with debt for the rest of their lives!

QBRanger March 17 2012 1:31 PM EDT

The article mentions a bill proposed by a democratic congressman to forgive a large part of the student loan debt.

And if you have been current with your American politics, you should know that Obama is completely behind this.

http://www.obamastudentloanforgiveness.com/

I would have thought someone participating in such a discussion would know this point that has been on the news for that past few weeks. That Obama had stated and restated in his campaign appearances around the US the past couple of months.

QBRanger March 17 2012 1:34 PM EDT

Yeah, screw those kids who want to better themselves! They should be saddled with debt for the rest of their lives!

Stated like a typical liberal.

How about this:

Screw those of us who played by the rules, went to public universities and graduate schools. Who chose a career that actually pays a decent salary and understood not to get too much student loan debt that one could never realistically repay. Screw those who work during college as a janitor to afford to eat during the summer vacations.

I like my version of things better. Personal responsibility is a beautiful thing.

Lochnivar March 17 2012 1:40 PM EDT

Ok, you got me, well done Ranger!

Of course the initial bailouts were done under Bush, but yeah, bailout culture is an Obama product.

Perhaps if you just accept that not everything 'bad' to happen in America was Obama's fault it would help you relax?

AdminTitan March 17 2012 1:41 PM EDT

Dubya was a terrible president and definitely not a fiscal conservative.

QBRanger March 17 2012 1:42 PM EDT

Of course the initial bailouts were done under Bush, but yeah, bailout culture is an Obama product.

Initial bailouts?

Like the stimulus? That had 0 to do with Bush.

And Bush was no conservative. He was just the better choice at the time vs Kerry and Gore.

Just like if Rommey get the nod. He possibly will be a better choice than Obama. I still have yet to make my final decision on that one.

Lochnivar March 17 2012 1:47 PM EDT

"The Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) is a program of the United States government to purchase assets and equity from financial institutions to strengthen its financial sector that was signed into law by U.S. President George W. Bush on October 3, 2008."

From Wiki... looks like Bush might have known about it.

BestNUB March 17 2012 1:50 PM EDT

I don't see many college students working as a janitor. Instead, most of them take on fellowships like research or teaching assistants, or even grading assistant to help cover the cost of living. In addition, these jobs waive the cost of tuition so it's definitely a huge bonus over regular jobs.

Lochnivar March 17 2012 1:52 PM EDT

Incidentally, I agree on the personal responsibility. If you choose to go to a more expensive private school then you shouldn't complain about the higher debt load.

I bought a car with a v6 instead of little 4 cylinder engine, so I shouldn't get to complain and ask for money to offset my higher fuel costs. I made my bed, time to get lying.

That said, I think making higher education more affordable is worthwhile because I feel it does carry peripheral benefits to society.

Lord Bob March 17 2012 2:14 PM EDT

Stated like a typical liberal.
Stated like a typical conservative.

See? I can engage in ad hominem attacks as well.

Lord Bob March 17 2012 2:43 PM EDT

And why was this posted in General?

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] March 17 2012 3:34 PM EDT


Lostling was hoping Ranger had plans for the weekend.

QBJohnnywas March 17 2012 3:39 PM EDT

Say what you like about Obama, but under him you have one of the few countries in the Western world that is currently undergoing economic recovery, and dropping unemployment.

Whereas in the UK and Europe where cutting their debts down is the order of the day, mostly through cutting welfare and public sector costs economies on the whole are flatlining and worse and unemployment is rising. Highest unemployment in the UK for nearly 20 years, mostly thanks to cuts to the public sector by our government which is going further Right than we've known for decades.

Lord Bob March 17 2012 3:45 PM EDT

Highest unemployment in the UK for nearly 20 years, mostly thanks to cuts to the public sector by our government which is going further Right than we've known for decades.
Yep. The Brits are quickly realizing that the austerity measures of the right wing do not stop a recession.

QBRanger March 17 2012 3:53 PM EDT

Unemployment is not going down. In fact more people have stopped looking for jobs lately.

The percentage of people in the workforce is lower than anytime in the past 20 years.

QBJohnnywas March 17 2012 4:06 PM EDT

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204781804577271123041630892.html

QBRanger March 17 2012 4:35 PM EDT

http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/unemployment-charts

Yea, not so much a real recovery.

QBRanger March 17 2012 5:31 PM EDT

OK,

I had a chance to try to watch it. Had to in short pieces.

A few things.

1) The documentary pays to little attention to the real reason catastrophe was averted, that is the financial bailout. It pumps up the stimulus too much. Even now there is considerable debate on the effectiveness of the stimulus, but most people now agree TARP was a success at preventing a complete collapse.

Could have TARP been done better, certainly and that is the problem most people have. The people responsible for the crisis have all basically gotten off unscathed with their riches intact leaving the rubble for the rest of the economy. And even with Frank-Dodd, too big to fail is still in effect. In addition the banks themselves paid little penalty as they were given 100% of their corrupt assets back.

Now if Obama would have went after all those big wigs at the financial institutions with a vengeance and put a lot in jail or at least took their money, perception would be a lot better. We have recovered most of the TARP money. The stimulus money is gone forever into the hands of the unions, Solyndra and other Democratic backers.

2) This film tries to make the point about Health Care being so important Obama had to confront it immediately. It states the economic crisis forced his hand on reform. This of course, is untrue. Healthcare at the time was not the major problem. People who were unemployed had COBRA and other ways to get healthcare. The shrinking economy was the major problem. If that were addressed properly, the economy would grow, people would get jobs and therefore health insurance.

As Rahmbo stated "Never let a crisis go to waste", which is how they shoved healthcare down the pipe. If healthcare was so important, then how come the major provisions of Obamacare do not come into effect till 2014. Guess it was not that important.

3) Tha Auto Bailout. Even today I disagree with it. Obama feels differently and there is a lot of debate on the subject. This is one point I cannot 100% fault him. I would have preferred an organized bankruptcy with restructuring to giving the unions a share of the company and more power.

4) Bin Laden. This was a high point of the presidency. A decision well done and a plan well executed. Kudos to Obama for making the right decision.

Otherwise, it was a typical rah rah yea yea propaganda film.

If you watch the interview with the director, it is incredulous that he states the only negative for the entire Obama presidency is the Republicans obstructing him. He can find not one negative in the presidency. Not his reversal on Gitmo. Not his closing the DC voucher system. Not his surge in Afghanistan. Surprising since he was the director of Waiting for Superman which was a slam on the public school system and a proponent of vouchers. Of which Obama shut down in DC.
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