Feature Request: Dedicated Char Slots (in General)


Zenai August 4 2012 6:15 PM EDT

A while back I asked for a Tourney char Slot, hindsight being 20/20 I believe it to be unfinished.

Why not have a Dedicated Slot for:

Regular Chars
T-Chars
Forging Chars

There are some who would only fight, some who would only want to Forge, there are some who would like to play a Tourney but do not want to Retire their regular chars. Now I know the Forging and Regular use the same BA Pool but if T-Char and Regular Char BA Pools were split and can be used separately so can Forging and Regular Char BA as well.

This came about as I talked to a few different players and found a few would do the Clan Game but didn't want to lose the Forging Aspect of the game. Others that fight yet would like to Forge but do not want to lose ground by forging. So I figured this to be a pretty good compromise.

So anyway there it is comment away folks!

KittehShinobu August 4 2012 8:38 PM EDT

^_^ Kitteh's first comment: That would be a good idea, gives dedicated players that want to fight and forge to have dedicated BA slots for them. What should also be done is restrict the Forger's character from fighting so that they are ONLY using the forger ba for strictly forging. There should be an option to make a character either Regular or Forging. ^_^ I know its a good sized chunk of code to chew on, but it will definitely give the game a nice turn for the best. Heck, I want to both forge AND fight, but I cant do both.

Haloki August 4 2012 8:57 PM EDT

This would be awsome!!!

Haloki August 4 2012 9:02 PM EDT

Then you could assign forging boosts ro equipment making some crappy equipment have higher market value.... I.e. gloves of mercy give you +1 per 2 + to armor upgrades.... Or whatever that would require everyone to equip 2 char's.

Haloki August 4 2012 9:02 PM EDT

To* not to :p

miteke [Superheros] August 4 2012 9:30 PM EDT

I can see a special slot for tourneys since the tourney character is temporary in nature. I don't see the same rationale for other types.

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] August 4 2012 9:39 PM EDT

I agree with the post above.

Haloki August 4 2012 9:40 PM EDT

Awww man! :p

Zenai August 4 2012 9:59 PM EDT

I don't see the same rationale for other types.

Well for the fact that even Jon himself has said that Forging is a secondary part of the game at best. So why not separate them due to this implied nature to begin with?

Personally I believe that Forging should be a separate entity/facet of the game. Many would like the option of both Fighting and Forging and I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with that as it would maximize the CB Experience.

Many NUBs are told never forge yet when they run out of BA they have nothing truly game related to fall back on and as a result they go to another game. This would change that and possibly help retain more NPs while also opening up a new option to the Vets. I would call that a Win/Win kind of situation.

Just my opinion of the subject.

Windwalker August 5 2012 12:54 PM EDT

this could be a nice addition.

Bounty Hunter August 5 2012 12:59 PM EDT

It is a smaller community we need to incorporate the forgers into our fighting clans. Maybe even consider having a forging character slot with seperate BA regeneration so we can all forge a little. Forging is a part of the game that is not secondary it is simply non existant for fighters no one can waste the time or BA to forge because they loose ground on fighting.

TH3 C0113CT0R August 5 2012 1:02 PM EDT

i like it, maybe a supporter perk?

QBPit Spawn [Abyssal Specters] August 5 2012 1:08 PM EDT

I think its a great idea as I have had to choose between retiring a char or not joining a tourney. I also think it gives a great way to filter out tourney chars from the various stat/item "high scores" pages.

SundariZelia [The Knighthood] August 5 2012 1:20 PM EDT

I think it's a pretty good idea, especially since the game is smaller than it used to be.

IPoop August 5 2012 1:21 PM EDT

definatly a great idea for the Tourney characters.

not sure how it would work with forgers though as their growth will still be slowed by using there BA to forge not fight no matter what clan they are in ... maybe something else to think about but maybe forging should give a certain ammount of exp

*that said ive only tried my hand at forging once so my opinion should probably not count towards the forging side of thing

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 5 2012 1:41 PM EDT

Is not enough character slots really the issue?

As you can only fight/forge with one character anyway, isn't the real issue that out of the 3/5 slot (which should be more than enough for any type of CB play), people have used up all thier free slots with teams that just hold items.

As;

Players have too many items
Teams are only limited to holding 10 uneqipped items

Would increasing this amount, and therefore removing the necessity of storage team, solve the issue, without having to increase slots / make exceptions for different types of play?

As Blizzard are want of saying, let's tackle the problems, not the symptoms. ;)

Zenai August 5 2012 1:41 PM EDT

I guess I should have Added this Thread in as well for reference as I believe this would go hand in hand with my proposed change.

Forging Skill

Zenai August 5 2012 1:45 PM EDT

Would increasing this amount, and therefore removing the necessity of storage team, solve the issue, without having to increase slots / make exceptions for different types of play?


Well we have asked for Item Vaults before but what I am looking at doing is setting it up so that these slots would never be affected by the others ever again. In other words if/when the problem of storage becomes an issue it would not be because of a T-Char or Forging Char taking up a slot.

Aside from that I am also attempting to see what ppl think of having the option of Forging AND Fighting at the same time without either affecting each other.

Duke August 5 2012 1:48 PM EDT

As Blizzard are want of saying, let's tackle the problems, not the symptoms. ;)


REply: That what as been done in the late year of CB, like SS.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 5 2012 1:49 PM EDT

Well, if you could hold all the items you ever needed on your 'main' character,

What other use could you find for your remianing 2/4 slots?

Zenai August 5 2012 1:57 PM EDT

Well, if you could hold all the items you ever needed on your 'main' character,What other use could you find for your remaining 2/4 slots?

That would be great IF it would be enacted however I am also looking at the TYPE of slot not just the slot itself. Hence why I said what I said in a Dedicated Char Slot.

All three of the Facets of CB should be a completely open option. They should also be completely separate as well. Now T-chars Score/MPR/BA Pool are Separate from Regular Chars. Why not do the same for Forging and open up a new Facet of CB to everyone?

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] August 5 2012 2:00 PM EDT

I'd like it for tournies, not that I play them now. Don't like extra BA for forging. Kind of obliges everyone to do both. Prices for big chars would crawl out of the gutter I guess :)

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] August 5 2012 2:06 PM EDT


What other use could you find for your remaining [ed.] 2/4 slots?

My extra character slots are sitting there being targets for the up-n-comers. And making money.

Extra room for a T, go ahead, have fun! (only one tourney at a time, or do you need more than one T?)

Extra Forge place, maybe not. Depends on the direction of the game.

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] August 5 2012 2:09 PM EDT

Yeah GL, if we were able to increase carrying capacity then there would be no need for a dedicated character slot.

It might be a good idea to make it something you buy for 5$ and have it a option with item naming. Something like this.

You pay 5$ and get your carrying capacity increased by 10. Each additional 5$ can increase it by 10 up to 50 items, or maybe have no limit.

So for options of paying you could get 20 item increase for 10$ or 10 item increase and an item naming. Also, you would want to implement a way to buy item increases for other players.

Plus, you should make it when you become a supporter you get a +5 item capacity increase. This would make this examples max 55.

As for the dedicated forging BA idea, it will never pass. You are contradicting yourself Zenai when you said that Jon said forging is an off element therefor forging BA should be separate. Because forging is a secondary aspect of the is exactly the reason why it will never have a separate BA pool, assuming Jon was still in charge.

Now if NS did want to implement this, he would have to figure out how to balance it all out. Having a separate BA pool for each system would pretty much double the amount of income of people who utilize it.

The easiest way to fix this would be to make forging fees on the dedicated character to be around 65-70% of the NW added and then being a clan would reduce that by 5%. So in the end, it would basically serve as a perk for those willing to do both to get their character's gear forged at a 5-10% cheaper rate.

I suppose it would make a decent money sink tho x].

Oh and you would have to implement that forging skill too since they wouldn't be able to fight at all and need a way to progress through the forging ranks. Basically this change would require an entire rework of forging, something NS is probably not up for doing.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] August 5 2012 2:14 PM EDT

I think if we ever implement multi-tourney then additional slots would be needed, and I can see the argument that even now the t chars shouldn't could against the five char cap.

Kirsti August 5 2012 2:23 PM EDT

I like the idea of having separate forgers and fighters. It would add a little more depth to the game, however not anything overwhelmingly complex for the players.

Zenai August 5 2012 2:26 PM EDT

As for the dedicated forging BA idea, it will never pass.

It's an opinion and you are free to have it of course. However just because it is something that has been a norm in the past doesn't mean this should be the way it is forever. Change is not always a bad thing.

You are contradicting yourself Zenai when you said that Jon said forging is an off element therefor forging BA should be separate.

You might be right in that EoD. The thing is, the way I see it anyway, is that if it is secondary then why does it have dedicated clans? Also why to they have standings and the lot as well? If they get to have all of this separated why not pull them completely out of the fighting game and give them Skills and a Separate BA Pool as well?

Because forging is a secondary aspect of the is exactly the reason why it will never have a separate BA pool, assuming Jon was still in charge.

Why should it stay a secondary aspect of CB forever in that is HAS to use Fighting BA in order to work? These two things should be separated as they are two completely different things to begin with.

As far as everything else you have said EoD I agree, this falls in with what Ipoop said as well. It would be nice to have it as a Supporter/Paid for Feature.(Slots and Space that is.)

Xenogard [Chaotic Serenity] August 5 2012 2:27 PM EDT

I don't care about forging either way, but I've been wanting a T-Char slot for ages.

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] August 5 2012 2:35 PM EDT

Zenai, I was just giving the developer reasoning as to why it will never happen.

Personally, I think it wouldn't be that bad of a change if it was balanced and implemented well.

1. It would act as a money sink.
2. Allow those who want to play more, play more.
3. And it would get more people into the game fighting.

So it is pretty much a win-win for all the players but a nightmare for the devs in terms of reworking stuff. Well it probably wouldn't be too terrible but alas we don't really have a full time coder anymore.

R.I.P Change Months

Kirsti August 5 2012 2:38 PM EDT

I agree with paying for character slots. T-Character slots are also a good idea. I think T-Character slots are more viable than the separate forging and fighting characters. I personally think having a forging and fighting character would be fun, but it would defeat the purpose of specialization.

However, that brings up a new idea... you can level up forging with BA for a while and then after you reach a certain point, you can specialize into forging which will give you separate "BA" to spend the forging on. Or it could be the other way around where you have different "BA" at the start and then once you reach a certain level that BA will be shared.

Zenai August 5 2012 2:44 PM EDT

EoD: Well thanks for that and I do understand that this wouldn't be a simple thing to do but IF it is a possibility it would be nice to have.

Imagine Special Items for Forgers: Hammers, Tongs, Gloves, Aprons, Bellows and the like. Then Different Types that Focus or Boost Viciousness, Accuracy and RPM %'s.

Imagine New Options: Char/Item Slots, Item Vaults etc.

I know that is a tangent but not necessarily a bad one.

Kirsti August 5 2012 2:47 PM EDT

I think it's fun coming up with new ideas and suggestions, even if they're never implemented. It gives us all something to talk and think about. <3

Phoenix [The Forgehood] August 5 2012 2:47 PM EDT

Extra character slots seem to be the solution. As to separating forging and fighting, I'm not seeing the implementation nor reasoning. Dedicated T-char would be nice though.

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] August 5 2012 2:57 PM EDT

"Extra character slots seem to be the solution."

No that would be a band-aid patch. The reason people need so many characters is to hold items. Fixing the item problem would be the solution.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 5 2012 3:00 PM EDT

<3 EoD.

/man hug
/bromance

Zenai August 5 2012 3:07 PM EDT

Fixing the item problem would be the solution.

For one aspect of what we are talking about yes it can be one of several solutions. However it would still get back to this point again at some time. It would be something that would have to be constantly monitored.

Krayzie August 5 2012 3:44 PM EDT

I see mostly the more veteran ppl commenting here about issues that I really don't know that much about, but it would be nice to be able to experience the other aspects of the game when you're first starting out. BA limitations pretty much demand that you battle and get xp. Just as skill dilution forces you to train based on your end goals, the current system forces you to only focus on a single aspect of the game at a time. This could well be a necessary time sink but it also takes away from the full game experience. I'm getting away from the point I'm tryn to make so Ill refocus.

There is a wall you hit fairly early on that can really only be surmounted by acquiring better gear or just sucking it up until you've saved enough money to pay someone else to level your gear or you stumble along wasting BA and time amassing enough experience to train your minions enough to continue the grind.

Once you hit this point what do you do? Lets see..

Well, you check your pockets and say, "Self, you've got a little pocket change, why don't you go an spend some of this change on new gear from the AH."

So off you go to the AH and get all this new shiny gear, just to realize its new and shiny but so very lackluster b/c its all pretty much base.

Well damn, I just spent all my money to get this gear. So now Ive got the level it up as well?!? Alright, lets get to work at the forge.

Opps! I suck at forging because I don't have the MPR to make it even close to effective. So lets go flush this hard earned money down the toilet with the blacksmith.

Oh, I hear the naysayers... why don't you get someone to do it for you?

Simple, I like the feeling of accomplishment when I do something, when I bust my hump and overcome the odds, when I get to the top of the hill and reflect on what a journey it was to get there. Besides why should I pay someone to do something that I can do for myself?

This is one way of looking at it...

On the other hand I can see how those that have put in their time and have excelled in the current system would be reluctant to see a change like this as it would take away from the hard work invested over however long its taken to get to their current stature.

I understand this viewpoint, this change could seem a huge shortcut.

But I would expect such a change would be a major rewrite in code in order to achieve a balance. But Ill let smarter ppl then I figure all that out.

my 2cent...

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] August 5 2012 4:54 PM EDT

"Besides why should I pay someone to do something that I can do for myself?"

Why do you buy a house instead of building it yourself?

Why do you buy clothes instead of sewing them yourself?

Why do you pay for internet when it was made to be free and you can navigate it yourself?

The answer to all these is because it is easier to pay someone than do it yourself.

As for getting higher weapons to fight people, there is a lot of rentals you can try out thanks mostly to Natasha. Also, doing insta deals where you can skip the forging wait are pretty easy to find too.

Dudster4 August 5 2012 4:57 PM EDT

I'd like to fight and forge at the same time but it would need rebalanced properly. Like EoD said if you bumped up the forging fee for a 'dedicated' forging char that'd be a simple balancing.

Zenai August 5 2012 5:12 PM EDT

The answer to all these is because it is easier to pay someone than do it yourself.

The Flip side is why should I have to have someone else do it when I am perfectly capable of doing it myself. Some just happen to simply like to doing things themselves on their own schedules.

Now add in that a lot of the players are also fighting it completely takes the option away. Forge or Fight......not so much fun when you are one of those people who knows how to do both but must sacrifice one in lieu of the other......


Also of note I would say that some would have a much higher appreciation for Forgers and forging themselves if this were implemented.

Kefeck [BlackSmith] August 5 2012 6:15 PM EDT

Anything that gets players more involved will always be a good idea in my book :)

{WW]Nayab [Cult of the Valaraukar] August 5 2012 6:43 PM EDT

As a player suggestion, the idea has merit. It adds in additional gameplay for all users in the game should they choose to utilize it. I feel it would also improve what little retention rate we still have.
But it would take an awful lot of time to implement. So however good the idea is, unless Jon or NS is willing to dedicate days of man hours to figuring out the nuances of putting this together and altering the current system, its unlikely to happen.

On the other hand, if you are just wanting people to have the chance to forge, why not have a public forging initiative where the forging efforts people do affect items going into the auction houses but instead of costing BA to do just have an arbitrary daily limit on the amount of forging they can do there.

{WW]Nayab [Cult of the Valaraukar] August 5 2012 6:45 PM EDT

Sorry for the double post, but i realised i didn't address the main point.
A dedicated spot for Tourney characters would genuinely be nice though GL and EoD have a point regarding the item space issue. There is very few users who would need a set space for a Tourney character if they had more room to carry items on a single character.

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] August 5 2012 7:01 PM EDT

Plus adding an item increase feature could be an easy way to generate more money. Where as the whole forging idea would require more work and not really generate any money.

Zenai August 5 2012 7:03 PM EDT

Where as the whole forging idea would require more work and not really generate any money.

Although I understand where you are coming from the proposal was not meant to add money but rather give players another option.

However if money is the issue I would be more than happy to start putting money into whatever account necessary in order to pay for this change to happen.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] August 5 2012 7:44 PM EDT

First off, I would advocate the options to buy additional item slots as well as additional character slots. I hope someday we have the option to run multiple tourneys at once and a dedicated tourney slot would only allow for 1.

As for the forging having a separate ba, this would not work unless you made forging nearly superficial, otherwise it would require people to compete in both if they wanted to be a competitive player.

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] August 5 2012 8:15 PM EDT

I don't think that is necessarily true Natasha. After I certain point, pumping more NW into weapons and armor doesn't make that much of a difference. Plus, it would allow for free people to compete against USD users since USD people would probably be more unlikely to forge themselves.

Also, it would create a much needed money sink as forge costs would be 40-50% higher than they are now.

TheShazbot August 5 2012 8:38 PM EDT

I'm pretty apathetic about the idea. these days I only log in to forge so I can pay off my debts. More fancy games have piqued my interest once more.

Haloki August 5 2012 11:34 PM EDT

Before we worry bout this souls we not fix AP first?

Haloki August 5 2012 11:35 PM EDT

Shouldn't*

dj1914 August 6 2012 12:04 PM EDT

I would like to see a forging slot.

SuiteStuff [C and S Forgery Lmtd.] August 6 2012 2:23 PM EDT

I dont think forgin should gets it own slot persay, but still like an idea of more tournaments maybe longer with less restrictions so we can mess around more often...tournaments should be a place for people to go practice and learn from that what they need to do with their mains. Maybe more char slots for more item equipping...I don't know why people have item issues...what is it 10 ar,or and weapons per character...if you save a slot for tourney you come out with 30 slots free for amor and 30 slots free for weapons...I understand it being rares and all but you can get more rares for nothing they are so cheap, so why not redistribute the cheap rares in the inventory....please tell me what use do people out of Ncb use base armor in inventory. If I ask in chat for item I'm missing, I can find it for dirt cheap. I honestly think rewards system should stop and auctioneer should stop spawning new items other than bmvg to make rares rare again..
.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 6 2012 2:33 PM EDT

Heh, lots of thoughts here, some not really pertinent to the thread.

First, I've been asking for multiple tournies for ages. For a single reason. To ask for a permanent tournament.

This would be exactly like playing CB, only with no USD/Transfers. WooT!

Seperate forging BA is a bad idea, as is any sort of seperate BA pool. As everyone would then all have to use all this extra BA to compete. And to be honest, not everyone likes forging.

Rares being rares. I've always disliked 'rare' items. Take the Junction change for example.

Hi, I'm new to the game, and would like to run a Junction based Familiar strat. Sounds awesome! What? There are only 10 Junction Amulets in the game? And I have neither one of those, *nor* the familiar I want to use?

So I can't play the strat I want? Oh well, guess it's time to find another game...

Power/Strategy should *never* revolve around rarity. That's a bad mechanic. It's exactly like 'microtransactions' in games. Neither should have anything to do with in game potency.

Imagine a new item I put into the game;

GL's Finger of Death

There's only one of these, and I have it. It allows me to beat any team in the game, before the first ranged round.

Awesome!

OP you say? Nah, it's balanced by rarity. It's *so* rare, so that makes it ok.

;)

A great idea for microtransaction has been the ability to purchase additional item slots, or charcater slots.

As for hitting walls, or lack of CBD, it depends on your strat. Not got a lot of CBD? Have no intention to spend USD on CBD? Then don't run a NW intensive strat.

Like aiming for 400+AC, or really, using any weapon. :P

But, this wouldn't be an issue in a permanent tournament. *cough*

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 6 2012 2:36 PM EDT

Forgot to add.

There's a reason that the tournament store (can) stocks everything, for every tournament player.

It would suck to start a tournament, and find out that there's only 1 item you need in the store, and somene else beat you to it.

You can kiss that tournament good bye.

General CB play is no different.

Josh [Cult of the Valaraukar] August 6 2012 3:55 PM EDT

I am fine with the idea of adding a tourney character slot. I disagree with any need for forging and regular characters. This economy is oversaturated as it is, we do not need more.

Waldo August 6 2012 4:04 PM EDT

Because I was asked to voice my opinion about this.

***First I will address tourney characters:

I think that a dedicated tourney character slot is a great idea. It would not negatively interfere with regular play in any way since tourney characters can't interact with regular characters anyway.

On the positive side however it would take away the need to retire/unretire characters simply for a tourney. Why is that a big deal? Two reasons:
1) Almost everyone has storage characters that are needed to hold onto all those rares the gods throw at us
2) (which IMHO is much more meaningful) a lot of people on here have characters that are there just to give decent opponents to new players and NCB runners, with the low player base the game would fall apart w/o these characters being there

So, to sum up Negatives: 0 Positives: 2

Is this part really even a discussion?

***Second point to dedicated Forging Characters:

Why didn't I think of this?

I think that it should be set-up so that an existing regular character can be moved into the forging spot but can only be removed by retiring the character, the forge characters can NOT attack (they would not be true forgers if they did) but still can be targets, and (pay attention, this is important) that the forging character does not affect BA regen rate but should pull from the same BA pool as regular characters. This way several things happen

First: it opens up those running a NCB to be able to forge at only the cost of using BA, as opposed to being gimped by having the forge character stagnate the regen rate while the NCB still gets 10 regen rewards

Second: new players would still be better off battling (and thus learning about the game) so will argue with me about this but I started this game just under a year ago...if I had forged then I would have wasted my time and energy & probably left very soon after

Third: by having the forge characters still able to be targets it further increases the available targets for those climbing the ranks, especially at the mid-upper range where targets start to thin considerably

Fourth: (this will be the last I promise) it gives an option for those that ran their N*B into the ground. Maybe you got sick, work picked up, or a major RL event (marriage, divorce, death of a loved one, etc...) took you away from the game and you couldn't play for a while does that mean that you should just give up 4 months into a N*B? NO! Make them a forger that way you get use from any character even if you didn't make it to the "Big Time"

There is my 2c (even though it took way more than 2c worth of my time)

Sickone August 6 2012 7:50 PM EDT

I really don't have much of a strong opinion on either of those.
On one hand, I seldom bother to hang on to enough items to need more than a couple of extra chars, and I don't even participate in many tourneys, so I really wouldn't need any extra slots at all.
On the other hand, completely separating forging and tourney from everything else would probably be nice, but in that case, forging could become overpowered (if forgers get separate BA too, that is).

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] August 6 2012 8:07 PM EDT

"Seperate forging BA is a bad idea, as is any sort of seperate BA pool. As everyone would then all have to use all this extra BA to compete. And to be honest, not everyone likes forging."

Actually this isn't true for several reasons GL. First, having a dedicated forger would increase the forge fees. So in turn they are only getting a small gain, maybe 5-10%.

Secondly, a 5-10% NW increase doesn't amount to much. Plus as you get into the higher ranks, NW matters less compared to MPR, tatoo, and a good strat.

Compared to the NW increases of USD users this would be paltry.

"This economy is oversaturated as it is, we do not need more."

Yes, all the more reason we should implement a separate forging pool. If you make the forging fees higher than 50%, say around 60-70%, you would then have a 20% NW sink every time someone used a dedicated forger.

Note: My reasoning comes from my idea of a separate forging pool outlined in an earlier post.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 6 2012 8:40 PM EDT

EoD, even if it's a 10% gain, everyone would have to do it, and spend another full set of BA every day just forging, just to now compete with everyone else.

There was an old post from Jon summing this up quite well.

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] August 6 2012 8:48 PM EDT

Then why doesn't everyone have to use USD to compete with everyone else who uses USD?

I fight people whose NW is way more than 10% of mine and I still win. I fail to see the logic GL.

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] August 6 2012 8:55 PM EDT

Here is an example.

I secure myself an indefinite forger who will forge for me for 60% so long as I pay him. Now, everyone else in the game will be at a disadvantage if they pay 70%. Under your logic, everyone now has to spend time and effort looking for a forger at 60% or they are screwed.

Zenai August 6 2012 9:07 PM EDT

EoD, even if it's a 10% gain, everyone would have to do it, and spend another full set of BA every day just forging, just to now compete with everyone else.

Not really GL. Not everyone runs an NCB and it gets ever higher on a daily basis. This is a simple thing that only requires one thing: Balance. There is always a way to balance things IF you are willing to look for it. So far EoD has come up with, in my opinion, a fairly good way to balance it.

Besides let's get real Carnage Blender is a COMPETITIVE game it's about time you put some competition back in it. A small possible 5-10% gain just might be enough to get ppl back into the game because it is something interesting to try out. Besides that more ppl can forge and it would put another cash sink in the game via fees for NW. You want to limit NW spikes well lower ENC a bit more to compensate. See not difficult GL just think it through :-)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 6 2012 9:23 PM EDT

Here is an example.

Yup. ;)

Just like gimping/trading characters, suiciding, the old account sharing.

The list goes on.

;)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 6 2012 9:25 PM EDT

This is a simple thing that only requires one thing: Balance. There is always a way to balance things IF you are willing to look for it.

Zen, hunt out Jon's old post.

The only balance is everyone has to do it, or no one has the opportunity.

To stay competitive with the guy that burns *all* BA daily, everyone else hs to spend all BA daily.

To stay competitive with the guy that hits 100% challenge bonus, you have to hit 100% challenge bonus.

To stay with the guy that's got a 95% win ratio...

I don't need to go on. ;)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 6 2012 9:28 PM EDT

I fight people whose NW is way more than 10% of mine and I still win. I fail to see the logic GL.

Strategy. ;)

Can cover an inbalance in other ares of the game. That's not to say those areas *aren't* inbalanced. ;)

Like a far lesser NW EXBow countering vastly more than 10% NW difference in another Tank.

USD still wins though, by a long shot.

One of the reasons I'll jump for joy and kiss Jon/NS if we get a perm tournament.

I'd leave the 'old' CB behind and only play that.

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] August 6 2012 9:35 PM EDT

Um but GL I don't have to spend all my dedicated forger BA to stay competitive to the guy that does.

I could simply just buy 10% of my money with USD.

Or I could come up with 10% of my money through merchanting or finding good deals or making low level characters that people lose too.

Unlike your other examples, there is more than one way to stay competitive to someone using forger BA.

Zenai August 6 2012 9:36 PM EDT

Heh, lots of thoughts here, some not really pertinent to the thread.

Just like gimping/trading characters, suiciding, the old account sharing.

You don't say...........

Those are issues that needed to be balanced a long time ago. We all knew that sooner or later those loopholes would get abused just like every other one out there.

Point of the thread is IF we think this "Possible Change" through we can find a GOOD way to balance this and make it work in a way to be beneficial and bring in a new competitive edge.

Anything that gets players more involved will always be a good idea in my book :)

I couldn't agree more.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] August 6 2012 9:49 PM EDT

Honestly a challenging way to get more involvement for a 5-10% gain in nw would be just fine. However you would need to flesh this out a lot more before I would go for it. Even if you made forging a 70% fee that is still a 30% gain over the blacksmith. It also would pretty much make the BS a useless accessory other than for salvaging and DEing.

You may say that it wouldn't be any different from the current rate of forgers now, but they are limited by market value as well as requiring coordination between multiple players.

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] August 6 2012 10:26 PM EDT

Do people actually use BS? I mean I figured USD users would use the BS and maybe NuBs, but I figured almost everyone either used a forger or did an insta.

Maybe he gets used more than I figured. In that case, I have a 30% NW advantage of everyone who uses the BS. They need to start using forgers if they want to stay competitive with me ;).

Zenai August 6 2012 11:18 PM EDT

However you would need to flesh this out a lot more before I would go for it.

A Skill was worked out for the most part with even a completely separate MPR Type and a Different Pool of BA. On top of this I do think there should be more Cash Sinks before it would work better.

Items: Gloves, Tongs, Aprons, Hammers, Anvils, Bellows etc All of these I believe should have a generic version and a bought version like Special Items that help with Viciousness, Accuracy and RPM %.( I suppose they could have a Forge of their own as well or their own Section of the Forge.)

I think a caveat should be that there is Specialties in Forging. One for Weapons and One for Armor. This way they should have to pick one to do better at instead of doing both equally as well. (Of course you could take it even further and say type of Weapon and Armor like Edged and Footwear.)

Sickone August 6 2012 11:33 PM EDT

Do people actually use BS?

An Elven Long Sword [80x3000] (+0)
An Elven Long Bow [6x20000] (+0)
A Pair of Beleg's Gloves [3] (+15)

All unforgeable.
So, yes, some people still use BS, at least every now and then.

I suppose I could scrapyard the elven weapons with something forgeable, then give it away to somebody else for heck knows how long (meanwhile fighting with junk or rental gear) and then scrapyard it back (if I can find a fresh base ELBow), but that's way too much trouble than it's worth, losing two rares in each cycle, plus maybe getting less rewards (especially since replacement gear is likely to be of less x so I might lose targets and of higher + so rewards for targets are lower, and it's doubtful I'd add many new targets), and what I'd need to pay a forger wouldn't be that much cheaper than the BS anyway.
So I'd really rather use the BS.

Sickone August 6 2012 11:51 PM EDT

Here's a thought.

...

Make all items spawn in store, auction and as fight rewards at base level.
No upgrades at all, under no circumstances.

Remove the scrapyards.
They will no longer be needed.

Remove the option to disenchant for cash, transform disenchanting 50% cashback amounts into 90+% BS/forge credit.
BS/forge credit always gets used first before cash whenever you use the BS or forge.

Remove all limits to number of items one can have in its inventory.
You will never actually need a mule character. You could use one for storage partitioning if you like, but you won't need it.

Make item transfer fees flat, not depend on NW, just on item type.

Revamp rentals so that people are more likely to put up items in there.
For instance, let people select any durations they like and only charge cash as percentage of rentals (with a minimum value of a similar-length direct transfer) when a rental actually happens.

You can now separate forging from combat completely if you like too, if you did all of the above already.

Zenai August 7 2012 12:13 AM EDT

I agree with everything but the removal of the Scrap Yards as no matter the state of the Forge/BS there will always be a need to change weapon types.

As far as disenchanting and forge/bs credits well I think it should be an either/or kind of thing. The player earned that NW and should have the option of what to do with it.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] August 7 2012 1:26 AM EDT

Oh how much I would've cared about this 5 years ago. I dont even have time to forge anymore, let alone use 320 BA in a sitting! In saying this, I am all for it, because I know there are some people out there that would be willing to use that much BA.

However, I believe this would cause more sellouts. They are able to fight, make money; forge, and make money and high end items. In turn, they make double USD.

Another suggestion, if it were to be 320 BA, 160 for fighting, 160 for forging. If you were to forge 100% of the time, make it to where you can trade in 160 fighting BA for 80 forging BA.

Sickone August 7 2012 1:50 AM EDT

[...] The player earned that NW and should have the option of what to do with it.

Then bump the credit amount from 90+% to 100%, and voila, no more need for scrapyard, as the BS/forge credit granted fulfills the exact same purpose but even more extended (you can even shift NW from a melee weapon to a ranged weapon or an armor).

Sickone August 7 2012 1:53 AM EDT

P.S. Forge cycles should be reshuffled and improved, optimal efficiency would need to be altered so that all items can have the same peak efficiency, otherwise everybody would keep on forging whatever the peak efficiency one is and keep swirling it around.
And make all items forgeable.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] August 7 2012 2:31 AM EDT

So basically end the economy.

Sickone August 7 2012 3:25 AM EDT

So basically end the economy.

Call it whatever tickles your righteous rage sensors, but yes, basically do that.
Alternatively, what economy ?

Zenai August 7 2012 6:07 AM EDT

Well the economy does need a reworking that is for sure. However not having some kind of a money sink for use of services? I do not agree, nothing should be free.

Sickone August 7 2012 9:04 AM EDT

Scrapyards are not money sinks, they're item sinks. They don't really affect the money supply at all.
Disenchanting for cash is a huge cash SOURCE, eliminating it would actually be good thing.
With the "disenchant to credit" feature, not only you're basically replacing scrapyard functionality, but making it more versatile, so it would end up used more frequently ; putting the return on that close to but not quite at 100%, you're actually adding a NW sink, which is indirectly a cash sink - and with it being more convenient, if you put the "vanished" NW percentage at a low enough value, a lot of people will just ignore it for convenience's sake.
Forging past the credits limit remains a cash sink as usual. You can increase the forge fee percentage to a higher value in order to gobble up the credit faster, and with forging separated from fighting, it would become more frequent, thus also sinking more cash.
The BS will get used slightly less often with fresh cash, so that's a sink reduction, but I'm fairly confident that the overall balance when taking the rest into account will easily result in a net decrease of available money instead of an increase.

Zenai August 7 2012 10:23 AM EDT

Good explanation(I actually like it), however, wrong point taken. I wouldn't do this without it Costing 10-15% therefore being a cash sink. DE to 100% BS/Forge Credit would be far too much. I feel you should pay something to get something. SY well I think it is a good feature same as the Tat Artist. With your proposal for a change to how the economy works then SY would still be pertinent just not as much as before.(Still 98 -100% NW exchange( with fees?) ;-D )

Sickone August 7 2012 12:45 PM EDT

I think 96% to 98% "creditback" (2%-4% withheld) would be a decent compromise.
Let's say some arbitrary rare you want to scrapyard would sell for half a mil, with a 3% withheld on "creditback" you're actually better off using the "creditback" for a total item value of up to 16.6 mil NW rather than using the scrapyard.

Zenai August 7 2012 1:24 PM EDT

Honestly that would not be something I would compromise on. Forging should cost, so should DE'ing of any form and 2-4% is just not enough imho. The original thought EoD had for 5-10% Boost to forging should also cost 5-10% in extra fees of some sort and Forge/BS Credits is as good a place as any to direct it to. Truthfully I think that SY and TA should cost a little more but that is just me.

Sickone August 7 2012 1:52 PM EDT

Forging should cost

Still costs the same, could cost even more if you want it to.
Just because you get a "creditback" from other existing NW doesn't mean it costs less.

so should DE'ing of any form and 2-4% is just not enough imho.

It's not really DEing, since you never actually get any cash from it, it's basically an enhanced scrapyard with different fee schedules and an option to reflow value into forging.

Zenai August 7 2012 3:55 PM EDT

To be honest I like the Idea of having DE AND Forging/BS Credit(@80-90% Max before actual Fees). The main reason I say this is because of the fact that I may not want to Forge/BS an Item. I should be able to use my CBD in any way I choose it is mine I earned(or bought) it. Now IF there was say another Crediting System that I could use say for Character/Item procurement then I wouldn't have a problem with it per se. However I think that should be a Topic for another thread. ;-)

I have to iterate though that I am a person that believes in having options. As of right now CB does not have as many options as I think it should. Which is one of the reasons I made this thread in the first place. Options can bring about any number of ways to make things interesting for the player base and generate cash for the Developer(s).

Sickone August 8 2012 12:53 AM EDT

Well, the crediting system could extend to also include BA purchases.
Basically, yes, able to use it any way you like, but only as long as it's directly used by you, instead of sent to other people ;)

Zenai August 8 2012 6:24 AM EDT

mmmmmm a complete stand alone system cries die interaction . Lack of interaction is a part of what is causing problems bro. I would rather not have something of that nature be instituted and even more players end of leaving. I like the general idea of what you are presenting but interaction of you fellow CBer is a must.

Sickone August 8 2012 7:06 AM EDT

You can still transfer value by moving around items full of NW, nothing changes there.
And you COULD keep the old 50% disenchant in too, and have this new "97% disenchant to credit" be optional as opposed to mandatory.

Zenai August 8 2012 7:29 AM EDT

Now that is something I can agree with for the most part. I still cannot see, much more than 80-90% back in BS/Forge Credit though. SY is only for Weapons we do not have one for Armor. I believe a direct conversion is more to a players need than a long painstakingly hard transition back to what their weapon was before. So for the armor I can understand we have way to many items that could count as a "Top 5" in the Armor area so an Insta is better than nothing at all. Just my opinion on it.

Angel of Death [Hell Blenders] August 8 2012 8:12 AM EDT

i say either forge or fight but not both
well i used to fight till sunday morning till clan exp was over and forge for a day but you cant do both
the only bad part about this is that the real forger wont get a forge job anymore

this is my opinion, you asked for it zenai and now you finally see it

Zenai August 8 2012 9:47 AM EDT

well i used to fight till sunday morning till clan exp was over and forge for a day but you cant do both.

With My proposal you could and it wouldn't hurt the growth of your Fighting Character.

the only bad part about this is that the real forger wont get a forge job anymore

Not really since you cannot forge multiple items at once AND not everyone would like to do Forging. Some would rather have someone else do it for them. All this really does is open up an option to be able to do it yourself. Nothing worse than standing in a Loooooonnng line waiting to get something forged. Especially if you can't get it taken care of because the Forger is going to take the highest bidding job. Where does this leave joe schmo? Not everyone will be as good or as efficient ax a dedicated forger but at least this will give them. an option that will allow them to compete in a better fashion.

this is my opinion, you asked for it zenai and now you finally see it

Took you long enough :-P

Zenai August 11 2012 8:15 AM EDT

I got to talking with another player and they reminded me of a good point on here. I really really good point I believe. Even if the character holding capabilities were expanded to hold more items there is still the need for more targets. Some players have farms just for that and not only holding items although they do serve that function as well....lol

Point being is that with the Expansion of a Dedicated T-Char Slot and the advent of Forger Slot there would STILL be a Want/Need to have Char Farms. Right now TP has the LARGEST pool of Char Farms out there and yes I understand TP is special but it would be nice to have more open slots for things such as this.

I know,I know MOAR OPTIONS!!!!!

So recap:

T-Char Slot(or slots if there were multiple tourneys at once)
Forger Slot(with Skill,BA Pool, Items & BS Crediting System)
Farms Slot (at least a few more slots than normal)
Item Expansions(or Vault via purchase)

Thoughts?

Underage Drinking [Battle Royale] August 11 2012 10:19 AM EDT

Now that all the blowing wind has died down Ill chime in again. All I could stand behind would be the dedicated T-char, and the micro-transaction for inventory slots available through the new special features page.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] August 11 2012 12:04 PM EDT

farms are generally horrible targets.

Zenai August 11 2012 12:23 PM EDT

RD: This doesn't mean they have to be. With a bit of initiative a TON of viable targets can be easily made. These target can be a boon to both owner and opponent alike IF people simply THINK rather than say "Oh it's too much to ask for 5 Minutes of my time." It can be done.

/Begin Generalized Rant

Don't get me wrong I am not attacking in anyone in particular I am pointing out a simple fact: Many are complacent. This should NOT be the way CB is played. It is a competitive game and should REQUIRE players to be COMPETITIVE.

So many times I hear: "Oh this can never happen or that is not plausible.", yet I have found a way to explain things out or someone else came up with a better way to make it work. Why is it so hard to get out of the complacency rut and actually get back into the game?

Every Idea and Suggestion I have come up with has had at least a few good points and even more so when players get behind it and flesh it out. Aside from that they do NOT lean to just one type of player but rather gives OPPORTUNITY to become competitive for all. Why in all fairness is that a bad thing in a game that at it's core is based on COMPETITIVENESS?

/End Generalized Rant
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=003JKZ">Feature Request: Dedicated Char Slots</a>