Range To Hit Penalties (in General)


Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] June 3 2013 2:05 PM EDT

So I know this page exists somewhere on the wiki but I can't for the life of me find it. Does anyone know where the to hit penalties in range rounds are listed on the Wiki?

Bounty Hunter June 3 2013 2:08 PM EDT

under "Various Formulae" then "to hit calculations" hope that helps

Viole June 3 2013 2:11 PM EDT

I swear, I just checked there.

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] June 3 2013 2:33 PM EDT

Nope, I am looking for the penalty of range weapons to hit in range rounds.

Thug [Sponge] June 3 2013 2:50 PM EDT

look under archery

that might be the info you are looking

I might be right

you might be crazy

Sickone June 3 2013 2:55 PM EDT

Maybe it's just evasion that's more effective in early ranged ?

Sickone June 3 2013 2:57 PM EDT

...meaning that if the enemy has no evasion, maybe the chance to hit is exactly the same from the first to the last ranged round.

Viole June 3 2013 3:04 PM EDT

EliteOfDelete and I both feel as if we've seen the specific numbers somewhere in Wiki. Go forth and search, Sickone!

Xenogard [Chaotic Serenity] June 3 2013 5:16 PM EDT

AFAIK There are no To-Hit penalties in ranged rounds (discounting using a bow without archery trained or under 1.0). To-Hit penalties for Ranged weapons only kick in during melee.

I believe all damage in ranged is based off the Dex CTH Calc. (Excluding the archery thing obviously)

I could be wrong though.

Underage Drinking [Battle Royale] June 3 2013 5:20 PM EDT

This page?

http://www.carnageblender.com/wiki/To%2dhit

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] June 3 2013 5:21 PM EDT

Xeno, are you sure about that? There is quite a bit of empirical evidence that supports my thoughts.

For example, it is not uncommon for me to miss the first round with an HoC but always hit the last round of range. I could be wrong tho.

If there are indeed no to hit penalties in range rounds then there is a massive bug floating around for bows, which I could easily prove :).

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] June 3 2013 5:23 PM EDT

I was thinking something along the lines as to what is found on the direct damage spells page, but for range weapons and hitting.

Ranged penalties for Magic Damage

Without a Helm of Clearsight 58%/55%/52%/49%/46% reductions in rounds 1/2/3/4/5 respectively
With a Helm of Clearsight 58%/55%/52%/49%/46%/0% reductions in rounds 1/2/3/4/5/6 respectively

Xenogard [Chaotic Serenity] June 3 2013 5:26 PM EDT

Lol no I'm not sure about it at all, I just cant recall seeing any formulas for that in the wiki. I've definitely observed that during combat as well, but I've chocked it up to other factors rather than To-Hit calcs. Perhaps it is a bug.

Xenogard [Chaotic Serenity] June 3 2013 5:27 PM EDT

^ Yeah I knew about those, but I've never been able to find one for ranged weapons, so I was under the assumption that they weren't under the same penalties.

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] June 3 2013 5:33 PM EDT

See I remember coming across it and seeing penalties for range weapons. I thought it was stupid because why does a range weapon have a to hit penalty for being a range weapon. Like it is suppose to shoot in range.

I kinda got upset about it when I saw it so that is why I remember it. I think it is only for the first two rounds tho, three if using an HoC.

There is obviously some penalty though (or bug) since Elbow fighting against someone with no dex, so 100 BTH, can miss the first round.

That shouldn't be happening if there were no penalties.

Xenogard [Chaotic Serenity] June 3 2013 5:37 PM EDT

It's quite possible, hopefully NS can shed some light. Personally I don't remember seeing that in the Wiki before, but it's quite possible its in there just hidden somewhere completely irrelevant to where it should be.

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] June 3 2013 5:41 PM EDT

Or maybe it was in a change log post when the range rounds got extended.

Xenogard [Chaotic Serenity] June 3 2013 7:49 PM EDT

The best explanation I could find was from a super old change log

Evasion is now more effective during ranged combat: x4 during the first ranged round, x3 during then 2nd, and x2 during the last.

Archery is different: it no longer affects being able to fire during round 2 of ranged combat. Instead, it affects the ability to use a bow during all rounds -- without archery you will have about 20% of the chance-to-hit that you would have with maxed-out archery. Interpolation between these extremes is linear. (That is, 20% of both DX and non-DX based chance.)

Bows (with maxed out archery) now have 90% base to-hit in the 3rd round of ranged combat, except the ELB which has 100% to-hit. Odds are still slightly lower in 1st and 2nd rounds.

Also this in a later change log:


ranged 4: 2 attacks @ range 4 penalties
ranged 3: 1 attack @ range 3 penalties
ranged 2: 1 attack @ range 2 penalties

NOW:

ranged 5: 1 attack @ range 4 penalties
ranged 4: 1 attack @ range 3 penalties
ranged 3: 1 attack @ range 2 penalties
ranged 2: 1 attack @ range 2 penalties



So I'm guessing there is some sort of penalty, though it's certainly not in the wiki anywhere that I can find.

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] June 3 2013 11:35 PM EDT

Hmm maybe I never saw it in the wiki and it was only hinted at from those change logs.

Still though the "small" penalty sounds very subjective because Viole has a ~226 CTH yet can miss in round one.

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] June 3 2013 11:41 PM EDT

And here you can see the Elbow on the Hal failing to hit properly. I think this is more of a bug though than the range penalties but still.

http://www.carnageblender.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=003Jb0

Viole June 3 2013 11:57 PM EDT

To clarify, with ~230 CTH, I occasionally fail to hit more than once for each of the first two rounds, every now and then though the odds today were particularly large. Perhaps DBs are boosted during the first and second rounds as well? Though it'd have to be less than two times.

Sickone June 4 2013 1:13 AM EDT

" Evasion is more effective during ranged combat: x2.2 during the first ranged round, x1.96 during the 2nd, x1.72 during the 3rd, x1.48 during the fourth round, and 1.24 during the last round.

With the Helm of Clearsight, these multipliers become: x2.2 during the first ranged round, x1.96 during the 2nd, x1.72 during the 3rd, x1.48 during the fourth round, 1.24 during the fifth round, and 1.0 during the last round. "

Sickone June 4 2013 1:17 AM EDT

DBs grant extra effective evasion levels on top of any other evasion sources, so it's quite conceivable they would also get enhanced, if the effectiveness boost is calculated for the sum total of existing evasion regardless of source.

Sickone June 4 2013 1:20 AM EDT

Hmm, nope, apparently they get added at the very end, and only trained evasion is boosted (by ranged round) and/or penalized (by lack of DX), and it's boosted XP-wise, not effect-wise... everything else is flat addition afterwards (still XP-wise though).

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] June 4 2013 11:13 AM EDT

Dbs are not boosted in range rounds. They are just a flat evasion.
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