Newbie bonus out of control?!? (in General)
June 18 2005 12:12 AM EDT
i dont know about you....
You are awarded $280 and your Minions receive 12 exp each. Clan bonus: 12.1%
but i have a pretty good sized clan bonus, have been plaing since Jan first, and here is what i found today...
i have fought approx. 90k battles
Aco (newbie started 6 weeks ago or so) has fough 36k battles
i have fought 2.5 times more battles then he has
he has 10k less mpr then me
he earns twice as much money as i do, and over double the exp...
he can forge easier, his ba costs less...
and some people have this until september? october? december of 2890? when will it end? when a newbie that starts today earns more then ranger...im scared.
but to top it all off...the real clincher..it that i found out, that if i started over today. this very moment. i could pass my character in under 26 days with my current devotion.
under 26 days!!!! id pass ranger, and still have a newbie bonus by the end of the summer!!!
is this fair? should i sell out and start over to prove this?
what is going on here!? tell me that im not crazy...
June 18 2005 12:22 AM EDT
Are those your stats or Aco's?
The newbie bonus is a good thing for new players, but the duration it lasts for is far too long.
IMHO, one month of these "bonuses" is more than enough.
June 18 2005 12:48 AM EDT
I do have one question. How many times have you untrained extensively/fired minions? I'm barely under your MPR, and though my character was created Jan 1st, it wasn't even played past 5k PR until about 40 days ago.
I do notice newbie bonuses are a bit overdone, because it seems they do seem to last for quite a long time, but the actual rates do seem to give them a fighting chance at reaching extremely close to the top, not just a chance at the top X%.
June 18 2005 1:10 AM EDT
newbie bonuses should get longer over time, they are meant to give new players a chance to catch the big guys.
June 18 2005 1:28 AM EDT
Yes, he will be able to reach Ranger.
That's the point.
i think +120% is way too much even for a newb...
Maybe 120% for one month I'd be fine with, but not 3 or whatever it is now...=/
June 18 2005 6:29 AM EDT
imo that bonus should get lower slowly with the duration it lasts...
so starting at x% (which is 120% now) and slowly going to 0% in the, what now is 3 month, duration of the bonus.
so after 1 month the bonus will be 80% and after 2 months it will be 40%.
that way they can also get used to getting the normal rewards instead of face a sudden drop in them
June 18 2005 10:45 AM EDT
I would be very happy if the newbie bonus resulted in more competition up here at the top. Go Newbie Bonus!
June 18 2005 12:40 PM EDT
Undertow, come on:
BURN THE BONUS!!!!!
June 18 2005 1:38 PM EDT
Personally I do like the bonus, very much to try to keep new players in the game. Ever since the NW/PR thing I feel less and less are staying since they are so confused with all the rules. Then they have to figure out why their rewards suck when they rent that nice weapon.
But I digress. I feel the new user bonus should apply to all starting users till about 100k PR. From there, they should have a nice handle on the game.
June 18 2005 1:38 PM EDT
Referring to what almuric said, thats what the point of the bonus is... Basically, a new player that is playing with the same devotion as someone in the top 10 should be close to the top 10 after his bonus period ends, if not even pass them. IMO, this is the smartest addition, as it provides lots of dynamicity to the game, not the static top players CB1 had some time ago, which is pretty much the reason why i quit playing CB1. The bonus % will only get bigger, or else it would be useless, or serve a different purpose... This is crucial to the game, as there is no max level.
June 18 2005 1:40 PM EDT
Just wanted to add that all that is IMO, for example the point of the bonus being for newbies able to catch up with ppl who've been playing longer.
June 18 2005 1:44 PM EDT
I disagree, why should someone who starts 5 months after me or Chet or Bast, be able to catch up to us? Should not our accomplishments/time we put into the game already account for something?
The new user bonus should allow a character/player to get a nice start. Get some money to be able to actually compete, but not to catch the top 10. Thats not fair to those who already spent lots of time and effort getting there.
June 18 2005 1:47 PM EDT
Well, there is no way they can catch up to the top 10, but maybe land nicely in about the upper half of the total players...
June 18 2005 1:48 PM EDT
Because of the new user bonus I have been heavily contemplating "Funding" a friend of mine. With a previous players cash (Cb2 for USD) and the new user bonus he could easily catch up and take the lead.
as i 113% newbie I am not complaining.
It does give me incentive to play.
I could go for a bonus that decays over time.
I am going to go into shock when it gets cut off.
Looking forward... I would like others to catch up quickly.
It will give me more equals to fight/barter/etc..
Isn't it lonely at the top? Giants should say "bring em on!".
This allows experienced players to stomp big noobs by using strategy.
ill do it! :P
BURN THE N00BIE BONUS! =P
Who needs a Newbie bonus when we have Fire Familiars? :)
June 18 2005 2:45 PM EDT
I think a couple of you are blowing the bonus out of proportion. Activity levels plays a major part of how fast you can grow. I grew fast but That is just cause I rarely ever have maxxed ba's from Regeneration, and i buy my allotment of ba's per day.
the bonus Drops quite fast, I'm only getting a +105% bonus and have have been playing under a month. In fact it was only at 110% in my first week or so.
I tried tanking, the spoils sucked, So I went back to my cheap EEMM setup. Now i"ll start all over that I have a better understanding of the game.
So with that said, you must take all aspects of the newbie bonus into consideration when you are looking at it.
June 18 2005 3:51 PM EDT
And to think I've never had the 110% bonus, I even started out with the 75%.
June 18 2005 4:16 PM EDT
And to think, I have never had a newbie bonus of any %
i got one for two days.... i maybe got 2 FULL ba in...... and Mikel, your ONLY getting 105%?????? that's over double as fast as any of us w/o it grow.
June 18 2005 5:08 PM EDT
I sound some what mean, but I am in another game where I'm sitting all alone at the top with no one to beat on, and you know what? And I'm careless and lazy over there because no one can touch me so I have no need to keep my army sharp. Basically, I can afford to have my Power Score inflated by having extra $ making buildings so I can keep ahead by generating $ instead of earning it via wars.
Is this what is happening to some of you? You reached a point and got complacent and now feel threatened by newbs who can potentionally overtake you if they know the tricks and trades that you do? Maybe the dev thinks that if you've been playing this long, you should be higher than you are? Maybe you slacked off or changed tactics in mid-stride and that hurt you? There's alot of Maybe's either way.
mikel what game is that? i bet it isn't the same kinda thing....
June 18 2005 6:54 PM EDT
Also, anyone who has a newb approaching them, take a look, your NW probably trumps there's. You've had time to buy and sell, and make a profit that way as well. You've also been through the change months that these guys haven't.
I agree that the bonus is a bit out of control. A few newbies with less than 1/2 of my total battles had gone past me in terms of score and mpr. I hope this will be in the agenda for the next change month.
June 18 2005 7:25 PM EDT
The game is called FaitH.
The only thing USD is used for in there is to buy credits so you can play as a premium member and get a few bonuses that the Free Trialers don't get. Otherwise, you have to use a strategy to get on top of everyone in the game.
Back to the topic at hand:
Undertow is correct in some ways, My MPR is lower because I am new and haven't participated in 100k fights. Just guessing here, that at the top where it's harder to hit up than it is to hit down, so with that in mind why would I want to hit down when I can hit up at the level that I'm at? This will not always be an option as newbs climb the ranks, but it does give us a better understanding of the game and gives us a chance to get some $ generated so we can work our way up to the next level.
June 18 2005 7:29 PM EDT
OK well I am a happy recepient of the NUB so ya I will be the first to admit I am enjoying it. I just think it is sad that members that have been here since the beginning of CB2 are whining about this bonus when the top player in the game actually encourages it. As for it staying 100+% for 3 months that it doesn't do. Anyone that claims it does is speaking out of ignorance. Mine was 102% for like 2 days then was lowered to 92% for about 2 weeks then it went down to 82% which is where it is now. What I really don't understand is that alot of the mid ranged players that have been here for so long have allowed themselves to get pawned so proficiently by the top players like Ranger even though yall have been here as long. Does Ranger have some special insight or a 6th sense that allowed him to become so much more powerful than yall? My NUB expires in the beginning of September so I am going to buy and use every single BA that I can get my hands on between now and then as to keep an advantage to catching up to the top players. If I am able to catch and pass Ranger in that time great if I don't then I will keep pawing away at him til I am able to take him. Now if that makes middle and higher lvled players uncomfortable that I am able to catch them and start farming them in a short amount of time then perhaps you should become a bit more dedicated about getting your strat built. I am not even going to be a bit bashful when I say this but I will not be happy until I am sitting up there thumping on Ranger so unless everyone wants to become a stepping stone for me to get there you better spend a bit more timing fighting and less time worrying about mine and all other newbs bonus'. I fully expect to be put on quite a few ppls favs list after this and actually if that will make you feel better than so be it. I am just really tired of all the whining about the new players have some sort of an unfair advantage over members that have been here 5 months longer than myself and other newbs. I can't count the number of times I have gotten "advice" from the more experienced players on this game about a certain strat to go for or whatever and then when I go to Ranger and ask him what he thinks of it he tells me its a completely wrong thing to do if I ever plan on contending with him. Now if he was really worried about my NUB do you think he would actually be honest enough to tell me that and explain why it is wrong. Thank You.
raijin.... anything he tells you is an oppinion... it's just how HE would run it not you.
June 18 2005 8:00 PM EDT
I really have to reply to that.
I will help anyone who asks because its the right thing to do. Ill give my opinion to anyone who asks to keep the competition going.
Right now Sefton and I have a nice friendly competition going which makes the game very interesting to me.
Now about the NUB;
I have been talking with RaijinBull (RB). He has started on May 12th, fought only 46k battles and already has a MPR of 177k.
Now look at Ranger. Started on Jan 1, hour 1, almost never missed a BA and has fought 201k battles with a MPR of 515k. True I have untrained and retrained, even fired a minion but my MPR is 2nd highest and my battles as attacker is second also.
So RB has 1/3 my MPR, playing only 1/6 the time I have, with only 1/4 the battles I have fought. And guess what, his NUB continues up till Sept 9th. At that rate he will have a MPR of at least 515k likely more since as your MPR goes up, so does your rewards/xp/$.
So I'll ask the masses, is this fair to all of us who started in Jan, did not get the NUB and had to plod their way through the game that a new player can get to the top 20 or so in such a short time. Reminds me a statement "you have to pay your dues to achieve".
I am in favor of the NUB until 100k MPR or so, to let new players get started on the right pathway, then they should have to plod along like the rest of us had to.
June 18 2005 8:01 PM EDT
Just to clarify, did we get newbie bonuses when we CB1 first came out? I remember getting like $10 and 3xp for a while.
June 18 2005 8:03 PM EDT
Argh, I'm out to lunch (literally and figuratively). When CB2 came out. Derp!
June 18 2005 8:04 PM EDT
In order for new users to ever have a chance to reach the top, and not have a run away victor as we did in CB1, you either need something akin to the new user bonus, or you need a regularly timed restart.
Which do you prefer?
June 18 2005 8:18 PM EDT
ok Shattered I will address your comment first. Ya I know ranger advise is just an opinion but is there anyone in the game with better insight on strats than Ranger. So whenever he gives me advise I pretty much take it as a good thing and move on. And as for what Ranger says ya I agree it shouldn't go for as long as it does and whose to say that it won't gradually deteriorate as my MPR and time here goes up? I am not sure what will happen tommorow I just know that until that day when it is gone I am gonna use it all I can. Now yes I agree with Ranger he and the other"elders" ( I don't mean any offense by that term for yall) shouldn't have to worry about newbs like myself. But by doing this NUB I believe it just added a whole new dynamic to the game and basically made the elders raise up off their laurels and get going. And not get to 100k MPR or so then go to camping or forging (not that there is anything wrong with either profession).
I joined since June 3, I got 109% NUB and last till first October. I still only fought 8567 times atm. I also untrained, retrained and even fired my minions a few times. That NUB is helpful until now. My NUB is still at 109%.
As a newb, I really enjoy al the benefit of NUB. In other hand, I think it's correct that NUB is unfair. The only reason to keep this NUB is to let all newb not enjoy their stay (and struggle) until they now how to enjoy this game. And I think most player start to enjoy this game after reaching 100k MPR. My reason is, at 100k MPR is a starting point to enjoy all cb2 feature. Forging is one of the most common example. That's why I tend to agree to limit NUB until 100k MPR. After that all newbs are on their own. I don't mind if NUB were removed from cb2.
And I do think the reason of "Eliminate rid of NUB" is only unfairness. No one afraid of being caught by newbs, being caught by newbs will make more interesting gameplay.
Any proof that newb will tend to leave if they have no NUB?
Edit: Eliminate Newbie User Bonus.
June 18 2005 10:09 PM EDT
my main point of this is...
if im not missing one ba ever, buying all the ba i can, and fighting up over 375k over my mpr, 225k over my pr, how is it fair that a newbie who doesnt know anything can fight anyone he chooses, and pass me like im standing still?
he makes more money, he maks more exp.
it makes me feel like im standing still
i started jan 29, got a bonus for about a week or so, and then went at it. i think the 100k mpr limit is a great cap for the bonus, or everyone should get it, except for the top 10 players, so that its all about strat and not time. that could work as well.
i like the idea that the game helps you so you have a chance to catch up, but then what about the people who dont have the bonus who are behind? are they screwed? maybe the bonus should last to 1/2 the mpr of the highest mpr, and this bonus is given to everyone until they reach that point.
i just dont see why newer players get all the benefits, when the older guys who were here from the start are stuck. should i sell off my account for USD, take what i know about the game and read the changelogs without an account and wait until september of this year, then make a new account? id have the bonus forever! it would also be huge! in a month or two i would be on top at that rate...how is that fair? (dont give me the speech that life isnt fair either...none of us have lives, so we dont know what we are talking about :P )
June 18 2005 10:10 PM EDT
I couldn't stand Adrian's post with it's spelling errors making it almost illlegible. I edited it, I hope you don't mind Adrian, or anyone else:
I joined June 3rd, recieved a 109% NUB that will last till the first of October. I still have only fought 8567 times. I've also untrained, retrained and even fired my minions a few times. That NUB has been helpful. My NUB is still at 109%.
As a newb, I really enjoy all the benefits of the NUB. On the other hand, I think it's correct to say that NUB is unfair. The only reason to keep this NUB is to let all newbs enjoy their stay (and struggle) until they know how to enjoy this game. And I think that most players start to enjoy this game after reaching 100k MPR. My reason is, at 100k MPR a new player can start to enjoy all of cb2's features. Forging is one of the most common examples. That's why I tend to agree to keep the NUB until 100k MPR. After that all newbs are on their own. I wouldn't mind if the NUB were removed from cb2.
And I do think the reason of "Eliminating the NUB" should only be unfairness. No one afraid of being caught by newbs, being caught by newbs will make more for interesting gameplay.
Any proof that newbs will tend to leave if they have no NUB?
Sorry Adrian if I misrepresented anything you meant to say, but I think that's the jist of it, and much more readable.
Thank's UndertowSacraficesBabies, English is not my native language. You didn't misrepresent it.
Just look at :: Slicer... He is pushing 11k in 3 days....
Or look at This Guy
40k pr in 5 days
June 19 2005 5:53 AM EDT
just ignore undertow, he's on my fight list :P
Also, you don't have to worry Soulcalibur, by the time you read this my noob bonus has ended
I'd still take Myth's strategy advice over anyone else's anyday... even Ranger's or Seftons. Myth has tried ALL the strats in Cb1, he is intelligent and he reads the game very well.
I disagree completely with NUB; CB was designed so that those that put in the effort remain at the top... that includes time. With NUB it may as well apply to all players if it aims to encourage competition to the top, otherwise any cb1 vet is at a severe penalty by not starting late, and also it encourages people to sell accounts, and start new ones (effectively an incentive to multi)
After reading most of this post, and finding out newbs are making over 800 a fight, while I'm barely breaking 100 at most. I find this so frustrating.
I started day 1. And "retired" because Real life was kicking me around. After coming back and being at a measly 20k pr, I tried to grow... Such a slow process. With an average exp gain of 50 on a single tank. (you should notice by now I don't have the "newb bonus"
It was a slow process trying to grow. I sort of gave up.
What pisses me off, Is a friend I referred to the game not 4 days ago, is already at 20k pr with minimal effort.
If we both spent the exact same BA on fighting, he would (will) pass me in under a week. (within the day actually)
And while I can sit here for weeks spending hour after hour on this game, I will never be able to catch up.
How is this fair?
After talking with bartjan, I can't delete my account, and start over with this bonus... how would this be illegal? I'm 23k pr. If I was to delete this account, and make a new one, I would get the bonus, and could grow 100x faster...
Considering the newb bonus was intended to give the new players a fighting chance at the top, why can't I delete and have that same chance, considering I'm such low PR? I would be getting no more of a bonus than any of the new players...
But after being told no, I've decided to payoff my debt to bones, Sell off my items, and quit this game once again. I'll check in, and maybe when and if this is ever resolved, play again. No point in playing now though. Considering it will take me months to accomplish what a mere newb can do in under 2 weeks.
What is more important, New players staying? or Vets Staying?
is this fair? should i sell out and start over to prove this?
what is going on here!? tell me that im not crazy...
--SoulCalibur, June 18 2005 12:12 AM EDT
Btw you can't do this, I tried. we would be "abusing the newbie bonus" and deleted for breaking the policy we signed upon joining carnage blender.
Or so says Bartjan. So good luck.
NUB should be kept, PERIOD!.
For the NUB to be beneficial enough to allow them to catch up they will need huge devotion and to buy a huge amount of ba along the way so technically they will be putting more devotion into those 3 months just to catch up than top players would be putting in the whole time (you have all rested once in a while).
New players also are new (see where I am coming from?) and it takes them enough time (usually a couple of days minimum) to be able to get the hang of the game, followed by rubbish strategies and little knowledge about who to fight also a good reason for NUB. They also in general play this part time, I haven't seen many full time, all day new players.
I also agree that just because you found the game earlier does not mean you should necessarily be overpowering, a player who finds a game 6 months down the line shouldn't be made to sit at the bottom, the time investment is irrelevant since that player has had no time to invest in a game which has not been found so for a new player to invest more time than top 10 players and get nowhere for the effort is unfair.
Finally I agree with the others about not having overriding forces in CB, I see even with NUB (which I think as time goes on either needs to be increased or lengthened) that there will be a small handful of static top players as we saw in CB1, it is inevitable but at least this is a way to try even it out.
June 19 2005 10:22 AM EDT
Cranium Basher, if your basing $800/fight on me, then I have to say that getting $800+ in a fight is quite rare - I usually average $400-$500. I doubt many people with my 89% newbie bonus will be getting more, but some of the people getting a newbie bonus greater than 100% maybe.
I personally that the NUB should be capped at about 80% and that only the duration should increase. There are two reasons for this:
1) BA buying costs: I earn ALOT more money per fight than my BA cost. I am earning more than 200k a day even after buying all my BA. This means that not only does my MPR grow alot but my cash grows alot as well. I recall seeing Jon saying somewhere that a Newbie with the bonus could reach the top if they bought all their BA but they would be sacrificing NW in the process, however with the NUB at over 100%, people can buy all BA and still generate alot of cash.
2) The NUB should allow newbies to gain on the top players, but it should take ALOT of time to do so. I personally think the NUB should last as long as CB2 has been going at the time of the Newbie joining, (currently about 6 moths). At say 80% this would get newbies close to the top but it would take alot of work.
NUB should be kept, that's true to get newbies to play and have a chance of catching up. But, it should be limited especially the validity period (3 mths is too long) and the bonus should be reduced. Also as Ranger suggested the bonus should stop at 100k PR or at least reduced significantly.
I'm surprised that the newbies received so much money from fighting, no wonder there are so many players selling CB$ for USD. CB money is too easy to earn.
When jon increased the amount of BA we could buy I asked whether the NUB duration would be changed, of course this was ignored until moose brought it up again later in the thread commenting
" I am wondering one thing... with new user bonuses reaching to September now, and with more BA available, and with the fact that New users nets positive, by buying BA...
I can really easy see a guy starting now, and fighting constantly being at the absolute top in September... "
"that's really the point of the NUB
although always buying max BA wouldn't necessarily be the best path given that sometimes NW is better than MPR"
I don't get the second part as if you are buying BA at a profit you increase NW and MPR through doing so.
The biggest character which has benefitted from a decent NUB is Death Spawn, MPR 400k battles fought as challenger 84k. Created march 23rd the NUB ending on 5th June. About 2.5 months of NUB with only 20 or so days at the higher bought BA rate....
Why should I be getting out-done with ease and passed like I'm sleeping because someone is new and I happened to not have the bonus?
I was here day one. The excuse for my size, is I retired, and now that I'm back I can't compete with THE NEWBIES!!!
You are all forgetting that it's not impossible to catch up if you show the same devotion as the top... why?
Because most of you are getting 10 ba every 10 minutes, whereas the top are only getting 6? 7? So the NUB bonus NEEDS to be changed... either change it to size... anything below 100k pr sounds fair...
Or get rid of it, because there is already counter-measures in effect...
Just tell me how more exp and money is helping newbs understand the game better?
It's not, it's giving them an unfair advantage that I don't qualify for because I happened to join day one.
June 19 2005 11:40 AM EDT
I don't think BA regen rate has anything to do with it, those on 7 BA regen rate get greater exp/$$$ to make up for the less battles, or so I'm led to believe......
1. Newb's are getting spoon fed here.
2. I think Jon just doesn't want to make a new CB3 because Ranger will get too strong :p
3. Newbs aren't getting challenged like they should be, it's making the game horrible because they fly up the charts and don't even need to be that good, they get huge rewards.
4. as much as I am addicted, I might leave with the rest, it's just not fun if theres no challenge with newbs flying up with you.
June 19 2005 11:48 AM EDT
Although I agree the NUB is a little overpowered, it must be noted that only about 2 characters is the top 35 MPR are actually created after February.
lol, now I get it why I can't catch up to Death Spawn even after buying so many BAs per day. The newbie bonus seems really overkill.
Death Spawn does not get the bonus. New User Bonus, his user signed up Jan. 1st
June 19 2005 1:57 PM EDT
The current owner of Death Spawn was not its creater.
Check out Evolution for the first owner. There was a major transaction yesterday.
If a new player buys a char from someone out of NUB then using that char negates their NUB until they use their own char so buying a char gains no advantage.
June 20 2005 5:12 PM EDT
Not being able to delete your account and start from scratch is retarded.
How is a noob starting from zero and me starting from zero with no outside help any different?
So I sell out, how long before my account auto deletes?
supporter accounts never get deleted =(
June 20 2005 5:23 PM EDT
If my price to buy ba is 250, and I earn 275 a fight, and 200 xp (rough numbers.)
160 ba: 275 *160 = 44,000 gold; 200 * 160 = 32,000 xp; roughly 4/3 gold/xp
736 ba: 275 * 736 = 202,400 - (576*250) = 58,400 gold; 736 ba * 200 xp = 147200 xp. Roughly 1/3 gold/xp ratio.
Your PR far outgrows your NW, and as one of the few people on this end of the scale (so few in fact, that our voice never gets heard) this can be pretty bad as well.
I get 7 BA every 10 minutes, and only receive 30-45 Exp (50 if I'm really lucky, and tbh, 35-45 is even lucky at times...=/...)
This is not even close to the people much lower than me receiving 70 Exp minimums...=/
June 20 2005 6:04 PM EDT
*coughs* 4 minion team *coughs*
Don't forget to multiply your 35-40 by 4 next time ^_^
June 20 2005 6:06 PM EDT
Yes, but the people he's quoting getting 70 xp are 4 minion Noob teams with the NUB.
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