Oversize tattoos (in Changelog)


AdminJonathan July 26 2005 8:38 PM EDT

(Since my first try addressing this problem didn't work out so well. :)

Oversize tattoos will not gain experience. "Oversize" is calculated generously; exactly how large your tattoo may be will be displayed in the UI somewhere after I take my son to the pool. He's going absolutely ape over here.

Update: max tattoo level is now shown on your "home page."

3D July 26 2005 8:40 PM EDT

Lol sorry i just wanted to get first post. never happened before.
Whats a UI

TheEvolution July 26 2005 8:40 PM EDT

NO! /me dies :|

3D July 26 2005 8:40 PM EDT

what constitutes as an oversiezed tattoo?
as said by ranger in chat

TheEvolution July 26 2005 8:42 PM EDT

Bad Change!

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 26 2005 8:42 PM EDT

HOO RA!

Stephen Young July 26 2005 8:43 PM EDT

Super Awesome Change.

TheEvolution July 26 2005 8:43 PM EDT

I may quit now..

Maelstrom July 26 2005 8:44 PM EDT

I'm assuming UI = User Interface.

Very good change :)

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] July 26 2005 8:45 PM EDT

pool sounds nice...=P

But what does this say for the people who used this to their advantage for quite some time before this change?

Anyhow, beautiful change...=) Just wish it were sooner....=X

Stephen Young July 26 2005 8:45 PM EDT

Maybe you should come back once you learn how to consolidate thread posts, DL.

Blarg July 26 2005 8:54 PM EDT

great change Jon :)

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 July 26 2005 8:57 PM EDT

Wh00t :P

QBRanger July 26 2005 8:57 PM EDT

I think one can look at Bast to see what the perfect size of a tattoo should be.

She has never loaned her tattoo, rented it out, or changed it.

Her MPR is 635k and her TOJ is 662k. However, I dont know how much untrained xp she has. So I would assume a 1:1 ratio would be a perfect match.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] July 26 2005 9:02 PM EDT

mine...

MPR 372,242

A Tattoo of Augmentation lvl 359,720

Never loaned mine out either.

[T]Vestax July 26 2005 9:04 PM EDT

No real danger for me either, guess that's bound to happen when you grab a tattoo when it's level 20 and just hold on to it.

Cylo July 26 2005 9:08 PM EDT

Or be like me and just don't use a Tattoo!! lol

BrandonLP July 26 2005 9:10 PM EDT

Hush before a true UC character schools you, Cylo. Kidding. ;)

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] July 26 2005 9:14 PM EDT

How about rewards based on Huge tattoo levels vs. low MPR?

[-war-] July 26 2005 9:26 PM EDT

Jonathan will probably just come up with something that restricts the highest level of the tattoo you can wear compared to your mpr.

Chargerz-Back July 26 2005 9:49 PM EDT

this isn't really a nerf, just letting people MPR catch up with their tats. good change =)

Duke July 26 2005 9:51 PM EDT

the rate seem to be around 6/1

AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] July 26 2005 10:07 PM EDT

Hey Jon, while you have addressed the serious issue of crazy tats with crazy chars, one thing you haven't addressed is, what incentive is there for people to accumulate wealth (fighting or camping) to spend it, if nothing except cash retains any value. You haven't given us lowly CB'ers any means to extract CB from a item that you've rendered useless. The items we have coveted and invested time and money into are not worth anything to either us, or anyone else. (selling high value rare items to the store uses some very skewed numbers)

Give us that means, give us a means of lowering the NW of a item to extract money from it. Otherwise I will sadly sit here with my money, and I won't have any good reason to spend it any any item at all.

Undertow July 26 2005 10:14 PM EDT

So don't spend it on an item, spend it on BA :p

AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] July 26 2005 10:27 PM EDT

I think the focus is more on incentives to join and play the game then player retention as witnessed by the last couple month's changelogs.

3D July 26 2005 10:51 PM EDT

when is he comiing back from the pool? =P

LumpBot July 26 2005 10:52 PM EDT

I think this is an excellent idea. I have to comment on Jon's ability to make these creative changes that no one else thought of.

SaintMichael July 26 2005 10:52 PM EDT

W00T! Nice one.

Mikel July 26 2005 11:09 PM EDT

whoop :)

I like the word "generous".... Still waiting for the UI to show it somewhere, not that I'd change my tattoo anyways :P

Arorrr July 26 2005 11:22 PM EDT

So now I can't be like Mikel? Start over with NUB, buy a large FF and save all exp and buy all of BA at cost plus and shot to the top in like a month?? IT IS NOT FAIR!!!!

Someone calls the whambulance for me, please!!!

3D July 26 2005 11:25 PM EDT

ill call the WHambulance for you.
whambulance?!?

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 July 26 2005 11:38 PM EDT

Max tattoo: 431,820


---fancy :P

QBRanger July 26 2005 11:40 PM EDT

Max tattoo: 1,349,000

Generous indeed.

LumpBot July 26 2005 11:41 PM EDT

Wow...not many people can complain now =D

Relic July 26 2005 11:45 PM EDT

/me thinks the allowance is too generous still, if you tat is over your allotted allowance, I think it should become that level, until it can be higher...

Special J July 26 2005 11:46 PM EDT

the average ranges from 150% to 160% of your MPR.

Relic July 26 2005 11:48 PM EDT

My allowance is 178% of my MPR.

TrueDevil [AAA] July 26 2005 11:58 PM EDT

Max tattoo: 114,170

This is going to take a while.. ;)

Duke July 27 2005 1:12 AM EDT

it give 1.33 of my MPR.My tat wont level for few week.How can is be that ranger is well over 2 time is MPR while i am at 1.33

TrueDevil [AAA] July 27 2005 1:14 AM EDT

It seems the limit doesn't update until you train your exp. Is it possible for the limit to update according VPR ?

Jason Bourne July 27 2005 1:17 AM EDT

/me thinks the allowance is too generous still, if you tat is over your allotted allowance, I think it should become that level, until it can be higher...

--Glory, July 26 2005 11:45 PM EDT


exactly what i have been championing all along :D id rather have it just stuck at 100% of your mpr. i dont really see how you can train something to be more powerful than you....and still control it that is.

after it passes you, it just acts as if it didnt.

Mikel July 27 2005 1:34 AM EDT

Guys the change isn't designed to stop people from using a Tattoo, it's designed to stop people from loaning out Tattoo's to NUB's and small players to get it leveled up.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] July 27 2005 1:38 AM EDT

I think that was dealt with a while ago Mikel.....like when xfer fes for tattoos became outrageous.

[T]Vestax July 27 2005 1:44 AM EDT

From what I have gathered the rate is not flat as everyone automatically assumes. Rather it appears that the higher MPRs also get a higher percentage of allowance. Everyone should know by now that Jon has a flare for using exponentially growing numbers wherever he can.

This means that there are probably people who have a tat level cap (or as I would call it TLC!) equal to MPR if you go low enough. I wouldn't complain about Ranger having that huge allowance. I mean what is he going to do? Insta Up?!

Mikel July 27 2005 1:51 AM EDT

smallpau1, I have to disagree with your statement.

People were still doing that, the loaner was charging the loanee the x-fer fee, in most cases.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] July 27 2005 1:54 AM EDT

Ok, but you werent here when *every* single person loaned theirs out to every person who came into chat with "Welcome again, BlahBlah." So yea, it has died down ALOT since then. And notice you said lonaer....you won't see anyone else doing it...=X

Blarg July 27 2005 2:43 AM EDT

mmmm, exponentially growing numbers

AdminShade July 27 2005 5:41 AM EDT

wow! :) nice change

[Banned]Monty July 27 2005 6:32 AM EDT

Good Change =)

Evolution, get over yourself :P

Reebok July 27 2005 9:20 AM EDT

I agree with Glory. It would suck having to sell my tat or insta it down (that I personally trained, and named) if I want to make a new character.

I would like to see that added.

Quark July 27 2005 9:38 AM EDT

Quick question - if a character's tattoo is oversized and not growing, should the minions get more EXP per battle since the tattoo isn't using any? Or is that "lost" tattoo EXP a penalty for trying to use an oversized tattoo?

I can see both sides - losing the EXP says you shouldn't have the oversized tattoo. But letting minions grow faster could allow them to catch up to their tattoo size.

Thoughts?

[T]Vestax July 27 2005 9:40 AM EDT

You can keep your tat, it isn't unwearable. It just won't grow, rather it will wait until your MPR can handle it. This is far from the nerf you think it is.

bartjan July 27 2005 9:47 AM EDT

G_Max: wearing or not wearing a tattoo does not affect the amount of XP your minions get, so it's not more than logical to expect the amount of XP your minions get is independent of the tattoo being oversized or not.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 27 2005 9:47 AM EDT

1 PR teams can still equip, use and gain massive rewards from a 600K FF. The FF just won't increase in level itself until the MPR of the team catches up.

This just stops vets loaning out their Tats to new users to get the new users to level them.

Manta July 27 2005 9:52 AM EDT

I think that for LESSER tattoos this PR limit should be removed: otherwise, a non-base lesser tatto is nearly worthless.

[T]Vestax July 27 2005 9:59 AM EDT

G Maximus, the point is that your tattoo is overpowered if it can't gain xp. Given the generosity of the level cap there is no way a person could argue that the tattoo is a bit to big for you MPR if you can't add level it up.

To then take that xp and give it to the minions would not only defeat the purpose of the nerf, it would exaggerate problems that it solves even further. First let's be clear about what is and is not nerfed.

1)Gaining levels with overpowered tattoos so they become even more powerful. NURFED.
2) The incentive to trade down your tattoo to NUB players so as to gain levels in your own tattoo at a new players expense. NERFED.
3) The ability to equip an oversized tattoo in order to gain an upper edge against people with much higher MPR and gain amazing rewards. NOT nerfed.

New players would want to barrow oversized tattoos, and would spend a good amount of USD for them, just to get the awesome xp rewards that you want to give them on top of a New Player's Bonus. The incentive does still decrease for the veterans, but it's still in know way fixes anything that is broken.

To be honest, the first suggestion Jon presented is the change we should all be routing for, not this one. The only part I would change is that battles should remain just as they have been when the familiar is on the defending team.

Quark July 27 2005 11:31 AM EDT

I see differing opinions between bartjan and Vestax on the rewards gotten via an oversized tattoo. Which one is correct - does the character get more EXP for using an oversized tattoo and defeating higher score targets or do they get the same rewards as if they didn't use a tattoo and fought lower score targets?

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] July 27 2005 12:04 PM EDT

You are reading Bart incorrectly. He is only saying that any XP gained while using a tattoo is not divided by (# of minions + tattoo). Your tattoo does not "take away" minion experience you would be gaining if you were winning without it. He is _not_ talking about the quality of your rewards, good or bad.

"Quick question - if a character's tattoo is oversized and not growing, should the minions get more EXP per battle since the tattoo isn't using any? Or is that "lost" tattoo EXP a penalty for trying to use an oversized tattoo?"

Answer: 1 battle earning 100 total XP = 100 XP for one minion, plus Y XP to tattoo. 1 battle earning 100 total XP = 50k XP for each of two minions, plus Y XP for tattoo. 1 battle earning 100 total XP = 100k XP and no tattoo.

Thus: the tattoo was never sucking up some portion of the team's XP, so you should not expect that "lack of tattoo growth" should give the team more XP.

Vestax's point goes to quality of rewards, "good" or "bad", as they relate to your PR/MPR/tattoo-size relative to your opponents'.

mchaos July 27 2005 2:45 PM EDT

I may only be adding to the confusion here but...

As I understand it, a 10k PR character fighting similar-PR characters receives much smaller rewards than a 100k PR character fighting similar-PR characters, leaving out score and clans, and BA allocation rates. (If I am wrong and this is only an effect of BA allocation rates, please tell me and stop reading.)

I think the question is, even though the oversized tattoo doesn't grow, if a 10k PR character equips an oversized familiar and now has a PR of 100k, and fights 100k PR characters, does he get the same rewards as if he were fighting 10k PR characters, or does he get the "normal" rewards for his PR level.

If the character does get the higher rewards, there might still be some incentive to buy a huge familiar to accelerate the growth of your character, even though the tattoo won't grow.

mchaos July 27 2005 2:58 PM EDT

...and the new tattoo cap just rendered this moot. Nice change Jon :)
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