Spell changes (in Changelog)

Two changes:

• MM is now range 4, and attacks in reverse fight order (back to front)
• New skill: Phantom Link

The new skill bears a little discussion.

PL "[a]llows Minion to absorb damage dealt to a companion at reduced rate." More specifically, for each level a minion has trained in PL, he can absorb 2 points of damage done to a teammate. "Reduced rate" means that for each 10 points of damage absorbed, he only loses 9 HP.

The other part of the description is, "interferes with life-drain attacks." This means that

• A minion training PL will get no benefit either from VA or MH/BTh
• Damage absorbed by a linked minion will not count towards an attacker's VA/MH/BTh.

Example: if minion X hits minion Y with a MH for 10000 dmg, but minion Z on Y's team has PL trained to 1000, the results are

• Z takes 1800 dmg (90% of 1000 x 2)
• Y takes 8000 dmg
• X gains 1600 HP (20% of 8000, instead of 20% of 10000)

Two more things to know:

• PL has no effect on GA or TBF "retaliation damage," or on AMF
• PL will redirect the effects of stat-draining weapons (axbow, exbow) to the linked minion, but only if the PL would absorb more than 1/2 of the damage dealt

I think that about covers it!

Update:

• You can train PL now (oops)
• If you train PL on multiple minions, only the highest one will be active. (Then if that minion dies, the next highest.)

Wow... that stirs things up quite a bit. If only Todd were here to exploit it! =)

Train --> Descriptions page: Says MM has "range 4" but still says it attacks the lead minion first.

very interesting. this will help walls a lot.

nice change especially to MM

this is crazy... i love it though.

updated desc for bast

perfect to make for more wall strats!, thanks Jon, Uberest change yet i think in cb2!

* When will PL show up in train?

* Is it true that you've written Phantom Link as a oneliner in Perl?

how does Phantom Link work if you have a 4 minion team. Does the minion with Phantom Link link with the 3 minions left or just one of the three minions that are left. Thanks

What if you train it on all minions? you would get 10% less damage for each and 20% gain for each. Maybe make it so only one or two on a team can train it?

i take it PL is worthless for a one minion team, or can it be used on the person who has the skill?

good question cylo, i was thinking that too.

Its only use in my eyes is to be for a wall, who is only used to take damage anyways.

Well I think wall strats will have to change. LOL. If a person trains Magic Missle. The wall basically becomes useless. Since the wall would be the last minion standing doing 0 damage.

Can PL absorb damage dealt to a familiar?

finally!

How does the the PL decide which minion gets it's damage absorbed? random or all of them in a 4 minion party?

Only 1 minion with PL will absorb damage. It will absorb an amount of damage up to its PL level every single round for each minion that gets hit. There is no real benefit to having a ToE on your PL minion, then, because it will absorb the damage the other minion takes fully, with no damage reduction (be it armor class, protection, ToE, or whatever)

Combat example (with a PL level 722):

FireFreed takes damage from his own Fireball (3646)!
FireFreed's Fireball hit Troop Carrier [3801], ActionFigure StorageTruck [4434], Troop Transport [6069], Gunhaver [2401]
Troop Carrier absorbs damage [722]
Troop Carrier absorbs damage [722]
Troop Carrier absorbs damage [722]


Side note: And now my magic missiles are back to not firing at all :(

I trained new skill on my E ( ? ) and it shows 4 options i dont see BL on that list.

YOU: enough XP to afford BL?

Bartjan : I feel stupid.

*thinks new strat will be coming out, WMW

Yep, MM is going to be the new Fireball.

Oooooh, I absolutely love it! Thanks for the changes Jon!!

MM is now range 4

What was it before? What difference does this make?

/me adds people his list.

yep no damage reduction
Phantom Link: 11,591/12,879 (23,182) Phantom Link: 7,133/7,279 (14,266)
yet the small one is getting used first for me, not the larger

fixed scanning for "larger"

I got a change I like for my birthday! I got a change I like for my birthday!

/me does happy, singing monkey dance :)

Maelstrom: Wiki has a history ;)
Previous range was 3. The difference is 1, the first ranged round in fact.

So, how does ToE play with PL?

Cherry Bomb pulverized Phantom Link : 879,326 with A Vampiric Hammer [455489]
Ablative Shield:1,387,620 absorbs damage [-308244]
Cherry Bomb draws strength from his weapon! [329241]
Phantom Link : 879,326's Guardian Angel smote Cherry Bomb (47997)

/me wonders if anyone can see how far out in left field this came from...and a MM change...astounding.

fixed

Thanks for the clarification on PL's effect, and thanks for fixing my magic missiles ;)

Brilliant! :D

PL rocks, and is very weak to FB! :D (Well, weak as in expect your PL minion to die very quickly facing FB! ;) )

You don't want to train your PL very high, as your minion will die and you lose the effects. You want the minion to live as long as possible, providing an overal 10% damage reduction to your other minions.

:D

Although... PL does seem to give more power to the 4 minion RoS + AS teams. 4 Minions, 3E 1T/M. Stick PL on your E's (with everyone bloated from RoS AS) and keep your damage dealing minion alive that much longer to cause more damage.

Did someone remove my post? Or did I just not post it? lol.

Well, I don't see an answer, so perhaps. Question was basically can a minion 'absorb' more damage than his HP, or is it 'capped' at how much HP is available?

couldnt a single FB with PL be good since it deals damage to it self?

wait...i understand now.

Will the minion that has Phantom Link trained take the full 90% damage if they have say high AC or endurance? And where does the PL damage redirection take place in the order of MgS/AC/Endurance/Protection? Is it the same for the PL minion and the minion having damage taken away from it?

Well so much for the value of exbows or axbows, now both worthless pieces of trash.

Since the highest damage from an axbow or exbow will be less than 60k, just train a 30k PL on another minion to have your tank immune from the draining effects.

This due to: PL will redirect the effects of stat-draining weapons (axbow, exbow) to the linked minion, but only if the PL would absorb more than 1/2 of the damage dealt

SuperNova takes damage from his own Fireball (90602)!
SuperNova's Fireball hit Plague [146494], Death [122071], Conquest [101793], War [15744]
War absorbs damage [47902]
War absorbs damage [47902]
War absorbs damage [47902]

Jon,

Is this correct, given that Death and Plague only have 20 hp each. So War is taking almost 48k damage even though the minions he is linked to only have 20 each?

Very nice change on both MM and PL. Make it more interesting. Now, everyone will suffle their strategies.

Very good change.

I agree with ranger on is conclusion axbow/exbow have take a severe hit.

Until the cache flush, there probably won't be a list in the Characters->Attributes page... but here is the list it'll run off of.


Phantom Link List

Also, I noticed the drain redirection isn't working quite right in a fight with Off Air..


Trent Delisario hit Silence [10087]
Noise looks weaker!
Noise absorbs damage [4510]
Silence's Guardian Angel smote Trent Delisario (5515)


And another example... against Phantasy Star


Trent Delisario hit RaCast [14772]
FoMarl looks weaker!
FoMarl absorbs damage [424]

PL - I don't like it.
MM - Nice.

PL is a waste of time. Admittedly it's an interesting idea, but it doesn't really add anything to CB strategy. Most people would be better off ignoring it completely, there are plenty of simple ways to do exactly the same thing without having to train another stat.
In other words, it might be interesting a little down the track, but at this point I think it adds very little.

MM, I want to see how this one plays out. Nice work.

PL is the new UC - it'll be unloved until someone finally proves its real worth... :)

What the MM change giveth, PL doth taketh away.

GL can create a UC/PL NCB char!

PL rocks for single minions. SWEET!

Nightmare: fixed

MrChuckles, The MM change was good, but the PL change is the only way I've found to resolve 2 weaknesses of my team. Trust me, it adds something.

An interesting note in that DX boosting/reducing items affect PL - my TSA & MgS bring it down, but my EC & EB boost it...

PL is a skill, and gets adjusted the same as any other skill :P

I don't understand why my PL minion absorbs damage when my GA kicks in against the enemy minions.......anyone care to enlighten a blind man?

633(12)/10 takes damage from his own Cone of cold (29644)!
633(12)/10's Cone of cold hit The Loden [50648], Elyssidel [88799], Walker Boh [47312], Tannaquil [25821]
Elyssidel absorbs damage [12138]
The Loden's Guardian Angel smote 633(12)/10 (7028)
Elyssidel's Guardian Angel smote 633(12)/10 (7876)
Elyssidel absorbs damage [12138]
Walker Boh's Guardian Angel smote 633(12)/10 (6818)
Elyssidel absorbs damage [12138]

someday I will learn how to make a clean post..sorry everyone :(

Fixed the formating of House Shannara post. What your looking for is the <br> tag. Insert it whenever you want to add a carriage return.

Seems to me the GA thing is just a wrong order. The PL is working on the initial COC effect/spell but the GA damage is interspaced in there.

As a note, PL is kicking in because you took damage from the CoC. The GA is also kicking in because of the CoC. The battle log is just organizing these two effects per minion.

Finally, the magic has been added to my missile. I think both these changes have for once helped my team.

does AC mgs tsa reduce damge taken from pl? Will u need hp for pl to active? Also just like ranger say PL totally trash AX and EX unless u plan on giving a huge damge boost for them which is not possible.

once the minion with PL dies, PL is no more for the battle

i know that but in the round that he still alive for example my E have 20hp with 300k PL trained is he gonna absorb 600k damge? also if enemy using elb and did like 3 600k hit 1 round my E going to absorb all 3 round?

ignore me just tested.. it wont absorb more than what the minion have....but can someone answer me will mgs or ac reduce damge of pl and most important my AX!!!!

MM is a HUGE twist and helps some so it is fine I have figured out ways around it

PL is a odd one I like it to an extent...

And the funny thing is just yesterday I was saying to my self that this month has been a really weak change month but this is a giant change with some really odd strats having to be made... which makes the game more enjoyable and difficult...

Wow, I'm still wondering if the Pl minion gets it's AC as reduction to the damage, or the minion getting hits's AC.

Walls RULE!

So the TJK is also going to train this right?
Anyone have an example of using this with a ToE to
create a damage black hole?

been looking at that myself novice, I think that is one of the critical weaknesses in PL - when PL redirects damage from a minion, that amount that is redirected is dealt to the PL minion regardless of AC.

I believe that was noted before. That makes it more of a meatshield skill rather then a wall skill.

wow big change, me don't understand to well.

is PL basically just a 10% reduction but put onto another minion.

i read through the posts, can anyone simplify it for me?

Jon's example is clear enough.

lol - I'm only just understanding DM

Looks like a good skill though - my wall was gonna be the last minion trained so it looks as though I have loads of time to absorb the way it works and learn from others

i haven't checked previous posts but it seems that minion with PL will stay on 1 HP or 0, that being only from PL.

also seems very similar to warcraft 3 spell spirit link.

but all in all PL is a great spell!

So I guess decay would loose any use it had when it comes to fighting a opponent who uses PL.

Stephen, March 23 2006 10:03 PM EST
GL can create a UC/PL NCB char!


BWUHAHAHAHA! :D Maybe, but PL works best on a 4 minion RoS + AS team. If you're just using it for a 10% Damage reduction, you're wasting it's potential. PL's main use is to keep your damage dealer alive longer.

And UC on a 4 minion team without a ToA... :/

Ranger, it's not just A/EXBows effected by this, Seeker ammo has taken a big hit. (ignoring the new MM) If you wanted to hit a Mage behind a Wall (Or 20 HP E's) seekers would be able to take the Mage out. Now PL will lessen this by redirecting seeker damage back to the Wall again.

WMW seems to be a very sold Strat now. Both Walls with MgS and back wall with PL. Front wall with Evasion.

Stops Tanks from the front, MM from the back and Seekers.

The faster your PL minion dies, the bigger the damage you receive from CoC and FB :D Great plus indeed

to Jon:If you train PL on multiple minions, only the highest one will be active. (Then if that minion dies, the next highest.)

From my fight, PL works down to 1 HP and it won't die [unless it got direct hit]. Is this how it supposed to work?

I'm sure he just used a > or < somewhere when he should have used a >= or <=. Or something to the effect.

as long as he doesn't use the is-not operator we will be just fine ;-)

fixed

any chance u gonna do something about the AX EX problem?

I think you would have to identify the 'problem' first before he fixes anything.

well AX and EX do such low damge that even the biggest in game will do around 60-70k damge only... so a 15-20k PL can transfer the effect .... if i have a tank and more than 1 minions no doubt i will train at least 30k PL to advoid dx or st drain since 15-20k require so little xp. Therefore AX and DX become indirectly useless

Okay, now give me a good reason why it is important that the axbow and exbow remain effective. Things become useless and sometimes become useful again. Things get nerfed while others get a buff. You need to understand this risk whenever you invest in any item/spell/skill/stat. Learn to roll with the changes.

Think about all those people who invested in powerful ELBs right before the great Archery nerf of 2005. The value of the ELB dropped and the axbow went through the roof.

Should I get a negative bonus to make up for the buff I got to my SF? I sported MM long before it was cool. Now is that spells time to shine. Don't worry so much about it, I'm sure the axbow will be in the spotlight again one day.

The entire effect of an item being negated by a spell that require almost no investment is more than a little harsh man.

You guys are so close to formulating a comprehensive argument but just not fitting all the pieces together. Keep working at it. I want you to note that this is not sarcasm.

With the highest range damge in game also chance to outdamge DD with multi hit,Elb kept it place in range weapon after nerf. True that demand and price dropped after nerf but elb still are weapon of choice for many. I am not saying we should change PL to the point that AX and EX will stay fully effective, but maybe make it like 50% less effective or so, so that it wont become completly useless. Not like archery change, PL will make AX EX totally out of range weapon choice.

I will say that this is a strong argument for belegs if you want your huge AX bow to work. I had really good results with them on a ToA tank at lower levels.

hmm maybe wiki is worng?Ii thought BG give .6% to each + only. From most valuable items u can get maybe +20 top?
which give 10% extra damge. Still low don't you think? 60k + 6k damge.

Well it's possible I'm either mistaken or one of the changes to the belegs nerfed them beyond what I saw when I was running a tank.

Personally I think it's just more cause for a damage buff for the special ranged weapons. Eliminate the damage done from the drain (thus ending the ability to take someone below 0) and increase the base above the ELB.

i dont think raising the base damge will slove anything actually it may cost more problem. It had low damge cause its drain ability which should stay that way.

For those of us who have a tough time adding 2 and 2:

Is it right that only 30k levels into a skill, not trained on the minion in question, can completely negate an item's special power?

Since one had to choose between using a regular bow vs a speciality xbow, the PL ability basically takes that choice away. Now the only choice is a compound or elb. Why use an ax or exbow when the real reason to use it is defeated so easily. Sure, use BGs. I will up my PL to 40k, big deal.

The speciality xbows used to give a great choice for tanks, that choice is basically moot. Not via another item such as DBs which give these xbows a CHANCE of missing, but via a spell, not even trained on the minion involved directly. And the spell only needs 30k or so effective levels to be 100 percent effective.

That, is the basis of the discussion.

i wouldn't think 20-33k per hit on xbow is that much big of a deal when main tank is hit.

my real question is : minion A got hit but minion B have PL and huge DB's. Weapon to hit A is considered enough + but wouldn't have enough to hit B . Is B 's PL still work then?

You,

The armor/DB's/TOE etc... on the minion using PL does not matter.

IE on TAB right now I have DB's on my wall that is using PL and CML's on my TOA tank. If my TOA tank gets hit with an axbow, my PL is high enough that my TOA tank does not lose any dex. Even vs the highest axbow in the game which Lorenzo was using.

i think that's a mistake on Jon 's part if that's the case. PL supposed to shift the damage and damage alone. If it works like that then ...someone better fix it.

"PL will redirect the effects of stat-draining weapons (axbow, exbow) to the linked minion, but only if the PL would absorb more than 1/2 of the damage dealt"

"PL will redirect the effects of stat-draining weapons (axbow, exbow) to the linked minion, but only if the PL would absorb more than 1/2 of the damage dealt" --Jon

From the horses mouth.

Post 100th. My mistake. Well...it's only 730am sorry about that.
WoW on a change. I feel new item is coming

PL "[a]llows Minion to absorb damage dealt to a companion at reduced rate."


Okay so basically what this means is it's more like a protect person type of thing than a drain life.

Zach, its a combination of protection and damage reduction.

Jon, any chance the PL will be added to the Stats page?

http://carnageblender.com/minion-stats-spells-all.tcl?field=94&title=PL&realm=Gondor

oOo look! I'm in the number 3 spot! =D

After trying the ability, I think the skill is a good one. But I would recommend that it cost more per point of affect. After spending a days worth of experience on it, I already got it to whee I want it.

PL is another huge tank nerf as it takes away VA and also takes away the advantages of seeker arrows against mage teams. there is no longer any way for a tank to take out DD quickly if they have PL trained on another minion

After some experience with PL, both using it and fighting against it, admittedly at rather low levels in some cases, it doesn't seem to nerf Tanks any more than it nerfs Mages.

And if something 'nerfs' both sides of an equation, it's not a nerf.

It's a balance.

That's cute, but in actuality, mages' DD spells do NOT have the special effects that the tank weapons and skills mentioned do. Because of this, PL is not balanced. It does not absorb more damage from DD spells to make up for its massive reduction in the aforementioned effects. It would be nice if it did, however. A change that nerfed mages and tanks equally would be nice, if not reasonable to expect.

Perhaps a PL reducing item is coming as our next supporter item. ^_^

You mean the one that's now two or three changemonths late..

Well, we got Jig, then MgS, then TSA over about a 1 year period.


So about 4 months between each item. I'd say the next one comes next changemonth. Perhaps Jon just slowed down?

VB? RoE? cmon OB.

d'oh!


You are right, someone needs to hit me.

*Zoglog carps the Knave

Asura, how could PL nerf mages as much as taking away VA and Seekers, i dont see it hurting mages near that badly

Regarding a new supporter item: it seems as though Jon waits until about 200 of the current item have been "sold' before introducing a new one...

That's probably true, if more than a little sad.

But why does PL absorb GA damage in this battle? I've seen it do some funny things, reading these logs...

Melee Combat

Hung Mung scratched Arathorn [2739]
Hung Mung scratched Arathorn [2348]
John Dillinger grazed Arathorn with His Legendary Piece [41180]
John Dillinger scratched Arathorn with His Legendary Piece [33983]
Adam Weishaupt's Cone of cold hit Arathorn [33117], Boromir [39983], Aragorn [27051]
Arathorn absorbs damage [33494]
Arathorn absorbs damage [27051]
Malaclypse the Younger's Decay hit Arathorn [106698]

Aragorn takes damage from his own Fireball (2055)!
Aragorn's Fireball hit Hung Mung [34845], John Dillinger [15820], Adam Weishaupt [30472], Malaclypse the Younger [40350], Arathorn [9390], Boromir [9331]
Malaclypse the Younger absorbs damage [118]
Hung Mung's Guardian Angel smote Aragorn (10215)
Malaclypse the Younger absorbs damage [118]
John Dillinger's Guardian Angel smote Aragorn (6884)
Malaclypse the Younger absorbs damage [118]
Adam Weishaupt's Guardian Angel smote Aragorn (9945)
Malaclypse the Younger's Guardian Angel smote Aragorn (10493)
*Arathorn absorbs damage [9331]*

That line there doesn't like right. Am I wrong about the way PL works here, and if so, why isn't Arathorn absorbing damage all the way up the chain of GA retaliations? Maybe I'm just confused about the source of the damage being PL'd here, but maybe not.

A screen shot instead of a CnP job might help, things don't hold up well enough...

Hmmm.....looks kinda like Malaclypse was absorbing FB damage, which was happening 'after' the GA was triggering...maybe?

Aragorn takes damage from his own Fireball (2055)!
Aragorn's Fireball hit Hung Mung [34845], John Dillinger [15820], Adam Weishaupt [30472], Malaclypse the Younger [40350], Arathorn [9390], Boromir [9331]

(So, the FB hits six targets. Note it hits Boromir for 9331.)

Malaclypse the Younger absorbs damage [118]
Hung Mung's Guardian Angel smote Aragorn (10215)

(Hung Mung took 38485 - 118, and your GA strikes.)

Malaclypse the Younger absorbs damage [118]
John Dillinger's Guardian Angel smote Aragorn (6884)
Malaclypse the Younger absorbs damage [118]
Adam Weishaupt's Guardian Angel smote Aragorn (9945)

(Same for John and Adam. Malaclypse is the one with PL, so no absorb here; however, he still has GA working for the damage dealt directly to him.)

Malaclypse the Younger's Guardian Angel smote Aragorn (10493)

(Those are the four targets on your team. Then, FB also hits Arathorn and Boromir with splashback, remember 9331?)

Arathorn absorbs damage [9331]

(Arathorn fully absorbs Boromir's FB splashback damage, essentially taking the entire splashback for the team.)

Ahhh, FB splashback, not GA, is being PL absorbed here. Thanks a mil, chernobyl.