Ilúvatar needs some strategy talk: (in General)

AdminShade August 10 2006 9:18 AM EDT

Well I have made a table below containing the details around my character. Any other things you would need, just contact me and I will let you know.

IlĂşvatar   PR / MPR: 1,320,456 / 972,002      Max tattoo: 1,584,000      Battle Allocation: 116 Cash: $786,596
 Your Minions    
 Ungoliant 'Gloomweaver'  EXP: 9,721     HP: 174,000/174,000     ST: 20    DX: 23/20    AC: 130  
 Phantom Link: 80,500/70,000 (144,900)   Antimagic Field: 857,097/731,000 (?)  Ablative Shield: 857,755/731,000 (428,887) 
A Mithril Chain Mail [28] (+42)
A Shadow Cloak [11] (+11)
A Pair of Elven Boots [10] (+15)
A Pair of Elven Gloves [3] (+10)
Dark Webs of Gloom [0] (+8)
 Melkor 'Arises in Might'  EXP: 5,003     HP: 890,653/890,653     ST: 893,265/200,000    DX: 679,167/400,000    AC: 93  
 Bloodlust: 212,000/200,000 (0.60)    Protection: 47,030/50,000 (18) 
Fëa 'Boots of the Aratar' [0] (+50)
A Pair of Elven Gloves [3] (+10)
Iron Crown 'The Crown of Morgoth' [6] (+12)
Ancalagon 'Mightiest of the Winged Dragons' [20] (+38)
Glaurung 'Golden father of Dragons' lvl 1,137,000
An Amulet of Invisibility [0] (+10)
5,788 Bolts [10x2] (+2)
Grond 'Hammer of the Underworld' [84x2500] (+50)
Angainor 'The Chain of Melkor' [4x342] (+65)

bartjan August 10 2006 9:37 AM EDT

Why PL on the first minion?

For how many battles is AMF needed? (roughly, if the indirect DI is higher than HP remaining, AMF was needed).

QBJohnnywas August 10 2006 9:58 AM EDT

The main question I have is 'What/who is causing you most problems in battle?'. If you're looking for improvements that's the first thing to consider.

But the main thing I would be looking (regardless of opponent) at would be upping the damage output.

So pumping some money into the Morg is the first step. There is no excuse to not pump the X on a weapon now. Of course it depends on what you want your cash for, but you can pour money into the weapon in the same way as you would xp into a DD spell now. And if that is an option then I think you should take it.

Secondly I would be looking at maybe changing the DB's for EBs instead. DB's at your level really need to be much bigger to be truly effective. If they're below par then they're worthless. And they're only of use against other tanks. EB's would raise your dex, increasing the amount you hit - therefore increasing your damage output. And that is useful against ALL opponents. They would also increase the AC on your tank, helping reduce the damage you take.

And raising your dex - I would say it's worth the xp. Again it's useful against all opponents so there is no wasted xp involved.

And finally, with damage output in mind, I would consider using an ELB if you can get one, rather than the axbow. More damage is better.

Your team is quite defensive, and in a good way, which is why it's never really dropped below where you are now. But since the changes I personally feel more damage is better.

These are all quite small things to consider, and they don't really involve changing what you have, just changing the direction of the team slightly.

QBJohnnywas August 10 2006 9:59 AM EDT

BTW, is it just me or has the formatting in this post gone a bit strange?

Xenko August 10 2006 10:18 AM EDT

No. It's not just you. The formatting is messed up.

AdminShade August 10 2006 10:25 AM EDT

fixed formatting, sorry my mistake, i copy pasted most of the source code CB gave me though it didn't work for making posts with it.

AdminShade August 10 2006 10:31 AM EDT

PL on the first minion to absorb Magic Missile damage.

The DI on my Enchanter usually is 0, except against mages of course in which it varies a lot. Most of the times my HP is at around the same as the DI inflicted.

The DBs do however protect me from quite some hits, alont with the Amulet. I have tried putting EBs on and it didn't make any difference, with a bit higher DX I didn't hit more and evaded a bit less attacks.
Also EBs won't make me do any more hits against mages, since they have low DX and I already outpass them and there is a cap on the double hits from DX sources.

I mainly had difficulties with high DX using tanks and single mages, but due to the recent changes the problems with mages have become a bit less.

QBJohnnywas August 10 2006 10:40 AM EDT

ok, if the main problem is high dex tanks, then increased damage isn't really the answer. You have a handful of options:

Again - upping your own dex in some way. Where EB's are concerned - from my own experiences - they're only really effective when they're +20 and upwards.

Upping the DB's. Pricey if you really want to make a difference.

Upping the PTH on the Morg.

Upping the PTH on the axbow. Or replacing it with a high PTH ELB.

I'm presuming we are talking the likes of Failure and Stalker here? You're going to need to at least double your dex to compete in that particular arena.

The two minion set up limits you somewhat with other alternatives. I would say train up an EC as well, but you've only got the tank for that and you don't want to dilute your tank's power.....


bartjan August 10 2006 10:40 AM EDT

Without your AMF, whatever you do in indirect DI instead will be subtracted from your HP remaining, *plus* the fact that your battles against mages last longer. So if you see that in battles against mages you have a lot of HP remaining, you could consider switching from AMF to something else.

With the PL in front, it's pretty useless against other types of damage...

QBJohnnywas August 10 2006 10:48 AM EDT

I might consider evasion on the enchanter rather than PL. If it's big enough then you at least stand a chance at cutting the hits she takes from other tank teams. With the increase in physical damage it's possible to take her out in two rounds or less. Which means another tank can start on your tank in ranged. And although you're hitting them with the axbow, it's not necessarily doing the damage you need.

I just fought you, and even with the lessening of my dex I could still hit triple strikes against your enchanter. Some of that was because of the PL minions I've got absorbing some of the drain. But plenty of people are using PL.....

QBJohnnywas August 10 2006 11:01 AM EDT

I can't see any other ways around this one. The strat is good and solid as it is. It works well. You could insta up your tatoo so that it is bigger than your max - which would give you some extra st/dx and some more PTH. But then you have to find somebody who wants to do that....

You could be a bit more extreme and get a big ELB and go archer. If you can't be faster than them, then at least hit them for more rounds. But, as I say, that's being a bit extreme.

AdminShade August 10 2006 11:22 AM EDT

I could get the Enchanter to the background, this would block damage done from normal sources also in addition to only taking 90% of this damage.

This could be a good change indeed, making my Enchanter worth more.

About AMF: I think my I should continue to train in it because when I fight higher 'ranked' mage teams, my AMF DI is much higher than the HP my Enchanter has, so I would need more AMF.

Using another tattoo is out of the question, if only for the name. Getting an upgrade would cost too much for hardly the benefit. (60% ST from 1.6 mil level tattoo is 960,000. Adding this up with 200,000 would make 1,160,000 which is only 260,000 more than it is now. As you need 4 times the ST to deal double the damage, this 260,000 is only a 30% increase, which would be only an increase in damage I estimate it would be 15% or less.

As for the DX increase, this would be some 150,000 or so. Something which I can also manage with training some more DX instead and using the money to upgrade AC to 'create' more HP.

QBJohnnywas August 10 2006 12:10 PM EDT

My preference would be training the stats rather than getting the tattoo. I'm just shuffling in the style of an MP3 player through the various options! :)

AdminShade August 10 2006 2:07 PM EDT

Which is a good thing, and I share the same preference as you.

AdminShade August 10 2006 2:20 PM EDT

And what about raising the X and + of my Axbow?

It would make up for a part of the DX gap, or increase the DX gap I have some more wouldn't it?

And it would do some bit more damage also.

AdminShade August 11 2006 9:49 AM EDT

So it all comes down to increasing my damage output.

Other thoughts about item upgrades?

Upgrading the EBs on my Enchanter from +15 to +20 costs $465k
Upgrading the Cornuthaum an additional point costs $1.5 mil
Upgrading the Shadow Cloak 7 points costs $620k

With some of these upgrades, I could make the Enchanter have more HP in effect, by blocking more damage. An additional idea?

Radiskulle August 11 2006 2:19 PM EDT

Just a comment about saying that if the indirect DI > remaining hp, then AMF is worth it. I think this is over simplifying the situation... since AMF reflects damage, if that reflected damage causes the mage to die one round sooner, than if indirect DI + 1-2 rounds of damage from DD > remaining hp, then the AMF is worth it. Also, as far as raising AC is concerned, wouldn't your best bet be an amulet?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 11 2006 3:43 PM EDT

I'm a big fan of not having PL on a high AC character, the AC is just wasted when a low AC charcater is hit, and that damage transefered to your high AC PL minion.

In your case, the AC difference is only 37 or about a 7% reduction, so you're gaining from the 10% DR from PL.

Have you considered moving your E to the back, and your Tank to the front with a AoI? Physical damage and MM will hit the E, plus you'll still have PL to suck FB/CoC damage off your damage dealer.

Another thing to consider would be dropping the AoI from the Tank, and having him take all the physical attacks, using Dex and DBs to lower the number of hits per round you take, which will then be PL'ed away.

AdminShade August 11 2006 4:18 PM EDT

Silly GentlemanLoser, my tank is now at the front (i forgot to update the table).

Atm I am indeed using it with the AoI.

The only damages my Tank takes directly are CoC and FB damage, the rest goes to the Enchanter...

So the only damages my PL now absorbs are the CoC and FB...

hmmm, good or bad?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 11 2006 4:50 PM EDT

Can't be bad. ;) But you could consider dumping PL for Evasion, to make you E hardier to physical attacks.

If, you're fine with your tank (your main and only damage dealer) taking FB/CoC damage.

I think that there should be no reason for your E to outlive your T, so leave PL on the E. :)
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001sP5">Ilúvatar needs some strategy talk:</a>