Please Jon, fix the clan system. (in General)


AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] August 12 2007 3:36 AM EDT

The top users in the game can dominate the clan system fairly easily, week after week, after week, after month, after month, after year. The clan system is not a challenge to see who will win anymore, it isn't much of a contest to see who is the best, and frankly it seems like the clan system doesn't work in it's current incarnation.

Ok, let me give you a couple numbers to help understand why the clan system is broke and needs re-working.
  1. There are 308 clans.
  2. There are 7 clans with over a million clan points in the yearly standing.
  3. There are 11 clans in the sub-million to 100k CP yearly range.
  4. There are 19 clans in the 100k to 10k CP yearly range.
  5. All the rest of the clans (271) are in the sub-10k CP yearly range.
Of the players in the top clan (battle royale) one cannot lose CPs at all, three of them only have one viable opponent and it is the same one for all 3, and one is within hitting range of other people.

This is stupid, this kind of dynamic is okay when we are talking about the "score" and "power rating" stat screens, but when we look at the top clans, we expect to see a fiercely competitive game to see who can stay on top. What instead we have is, the top players in the game win in the clans, all the time.

The "clan bonus" is around to reward those who can stay on top of the clan system. In theory this system sounds fair and pretty fun. In practice, in a game where we have infants battling battle hardened warriors, there is no contest, and therefore no reason for any kind of reward it seems.

Let me put it to you another way, have you ever heard of a high-school baseball team playing against a professional baseball team? No? You mean it wouldn't be fun to watch? Exactly the same thing here, this is boring. Please change it Jon, so that top players can play, and novice players can play, and both can have fun and be rewarded, not just the top players.

AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] August 12 2007 4:00 AM EDT

BTW: This was discussed previously in length both here and here, but no action was taken, so I cry a little every time I look at clans.

1 MINUTE 1 August 12 2007 6:03 AM EDT

Yeah I agree why should ranger get max bonus when he's leagues ahead of anyone else?

lostling August 12 2007 6:12 AM EDT

hmm well because he put in more work then most :) dont see how this can be an issue lol... the more work you put into the game the more you get out of it...

verifex has a point... maybe a seperate clan list for people not in gondor? maybe that will help ^^

Flamey August 12 2007 6:19 AM EDT

lostling, that's not the point. A lot of people (now, because of the BA change) put in the same effort as Ranger but get farmed half their CPs, unlike Ranger.

I can make 4k a day, and only see 2k of it, while Ranger makes 4k a day and sees 4k of it.

Gandalf August 12 2007 6:26 AM EDT

Maybe if NCB was fixed, there would be more competition on the top

players behalf? only a suggestion :) Making it harder for the top guys,

and therefore being able to kill a few of BR.

1 MINUTE 1 August 12 2007 6:40 AM EDT

Well haven't poison or dolphin worked just as hard if not harder than ranger? they have like a million battles challenged that seems like hard work to me.

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] August 12 2007 6:51 AM EDT


Lostling, you will have to offer your personal definition of "work" for your point to have merit. ;)

Lumpy Koala August 12 2007 7:17 AM EDT

I have this crazy idea of combining challenge bonus into clan point reward that maybe can help out in the dynamics.

For instance,

I am 100k PR winning a 300k score dude, which gives me 100% challenge bonus. If I were to get 2 cp, I will get 4 cp. Maybe we can cap it to max of 5 cp, so fighting top 3 clan and win will still be beneficial if challenge bonus is huge. We can round them up to nearest integer for easier calculation.

Also, to make top team like BR at least get points for being active, every win will guarantee minimum of 2 CP. Also every draw gives a fixed 1 CP to both party.

Flamey August 12 2007 8:30 AM EDT

No, that's ridiculous, I've basically been getting from 0% to -5%, you want to give me even less CP, The people around me are the ones getting farmed the most, so you want to hinder them even more?

Sorry, that helps the really low players who get a ton of CPs anyway, because of high BA regen.

QBRanger August 12 2007 9:43 AM EDT

Certainly the fact that all of us at the top in BR have put a lot of time and effort into our characters (my definition of work) should not mean we get the most bonus.

Of course people with 1/2 the MPR of the top characters should get the same if not more bonus then those at/near the top.

Please make the system more communistic and equal for each and every player.

Like I proposed in the past, give every N*B character a 3M MPR character with a 5M tattoo to level the playing field. That way work (time and effort into ones character) will mean nothing and everyone can just be 100% equal.

I, for one, would find such a game quite boring and droll.

For those not used to sarcasm, please read above.

Of course in any game there will be people at the top. BR is lucky enough to have 4 of those people. And yet again, others would like to punish BR for it. It seems people always want the quick/cheap way to the top. Why put in effort and time (work) into ones character when bitching and moaning about things will work more effectively?

And those that again persist on saying BR was made with USD, I give you Little Devil who has not put any USD into his character and is doing just fine, in fact was a NUB character. I also can state over 10 others who have put more USD into this game who are 1/2 as effective as Koy. So those arguments have no merit in this clan discussion.

QBRanger August 12 2007 10:06 AM EDT

"Let me put it to you another way, have you ever heard of a high-school baseball team playing against a professional baseball team?"

No, but the Tampa Bay Devil Ray's play against the New York Yankees about 20 times a year.

The Atlanta Hawks play against the San Antonio Spurs 3 times a year.

The Phoenix Cardinals play in the same league as the Indianapolis Colts.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] August 12 2007 10:54 AM EDT

maybe we could just change the name of the game to diplomacy blender. that way we are rewarding people for not fighting which seems to be in line with the current system.

in short, change the clan system to bring back carnage or make a pink fluffy bunny theme for all the pacifists!

QBRanger August 12 2007 11:33 AM EDT

Maybe we should make it so the top 10 mpr cannot be in the same clan, but why stop there.

Let us make it so you cannot be in a clan with anyone you may possibly ever fight.

Or make it so there are only 1 person clans.

But, certainly let us not reward people for the work (time and effort) they put into their characters and in making a strong clan. It took me a while to gather those in BR, but let us just make it moot, since others are upset BR does so well.

48Zach August 12 2007 11:43 AM EDT

The clan system seems fine to me.. The clan i'm currently in (Damage Inc.) hovers in the top 5 regularly, and none of us even have 1mil MPR..

Spawn August 12 2007 11:45 AM EDT

Yeah We Rule!! hehe...

Fanta [Fanta's Forge] August 12 2007 11:47 AM EDT

I agree with Ranger, BR shouldn't have a disadvantage just because they're at the top.

Nerevas August 12 2007 12:01 PM EDT

What other clan has every member hitting 100% of their BA everyday? What other clan has every member hitting 100% clan opponents at all times?

Now name a single clan where people attack their own clanmates? None, unsurprisingly. I don't see how that can be held against them then.

And they just happen to all be in 6ba refresh (minus Mem's NCB) which is a significant disadvantage on their part.

Naa, I think the clan system is just fine. What is being asked, and continually asked at that, is to punish them for being better than us. Is that not why they deserve first place? And all that gets them is .1/.2/.3% bonus over the next highest clans. Big whoop.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] August 12 2007 12:09 PM EDT

this always seems to be taken personally by the ones at the top, in my mind it isn't about any one clan or person. the question that needs to be answered is should top mpr's in the game be allowed to all be in the same clan? br just happen to be the ones in that position.

i have been tracking the highest mpr in game in relation to my own since may 31st. we are in the same refresh rate bracket. i use a roe when i am fighting and use a defensive tat when not. i am in a single person clan and usually have over a 10% bonus. usually it is between eleven and twelve though. i remove people from my fightlist if i cannot beat them with one attack, no draws or stalemates. i rarely miss ba. with all of that being said, i am slowly and steadily losing ground in comparison to the top mpr.

other people may have different results but i don't see how that is possible. i think the only ones who could actually gain ground would be those in the top clan with the top bonus. without using a roe though that may not even allow it. also with the nub/ncb hosed, the top mpr spot is untouchable. if that is the way jon wants the game then i am cool with it, i have other goals and am happy to continue on. i just thought that cb2 wasn't supposed to be like this.



QBsutekh137 August 12 2007 12:13 PM EDT

Also discussed here.

That was a discussion of the fact that not only is BR "locked in" at the top, but that they result in stagnation because, as Ranger likes to put it, they are such great, awesome, dedicated players -- but they don't fight each other. Instead of having a wonderful C;ash of the Titans, we get Stagnation of the Clanners.

My viewpoint was met with dismissal, admonishment, and a surprising amount of community vitriol directed at me for my "how dare you bad-mouth BR!" tone. My option was lain out for me by Ranger, him telling me to "put up or shut up". Never mind that it would have cost me several hundred USD (if not thousands) and the fact that I wasn't going to spend any more USD. Ranger couldn't get his head around that. He had seen me spend money before and so could not understand why I wouldn't spend more. The idea of private choice is generally lost on Ranger, I'm afraid, and thinking differently than him is generally met with "you should be quiet".

So, it was no surprise to me when I read the same song and dance from Ranger on this thread. We get to see words like "work", "worth", and Ranger's version of sarcasm which almost invariably involves the words "communism" and "socialism". The regular sycophants also come 'round, having drunk the Kool-Aid concerning how much more work Ranger has put into the game than anyone else.

In a recent thread, I told Ranger I didn't want to have a "worth" argument. Well, now I do. I very seriously wish to know how spending a lot of USD, buying a large character (with USD), buying a large tattoo (with USD), and buying huge gear (in some cases simply to exclude adversaries from attaining it, with USD) is "hard work". Enlighten me, please. As a fellow USD spender, I can assure you that the easiest portions of my CB career involved plopping down USD, and that goes for both CB1 and CB2. There is nothing simpler -- it is the very absence of "work", and any greatness achieved from spending USD is certainly no moer worthy than any other style of play or dedication.

Show me where the work is, otherwise please stop using it as the lynch-pin for your entitlement logic. We can go from there. Verifex is making a great point, and you are sweeping it under the rug with the same, tired logic you always spout. Let's just get it dismissed once and for all so we can have honest, constructive dialogue.

48DangerZone August 12 2007 12:43 PM EDT

I agree.

QBRanger August 12 2007 12:46 PM EDT

Sut,

From someone who spend over 80M CB2 on minions, who are you to try to goad me into a USD discussion.

I have played since I returned and hardly missed a BA. I have not went weeks without missing a BA. That is the "work" I refer to. Not the USD as you try to put into the clan discussion.

You seem to be really upset about me buying those DB's so you could not get them. Well, I seem to be using them now and I need them. At the time, I knew if you got them you would be unbeatable. But I did sell a lesser pair, about +130 or so and you refused to bid what they were worth so Central Bank won them. They were there for you to buy, you did not even though at the time you had the money.

Again, there are at least a dozen people who have spent more money in cb then I have. And where are they? I managed to get the top tattoo from Jayuu because NOBODY else bid on it.

The hard work you speak of is playing Koy as I have. Adapting to adversaries, even losing MPR in the process by untraining/retraining. Something you will not do. Others in the top 10 stand pat and let their strategy stand. And complain when others beat them. Well perhaps that is why Jon made the penalty for unlearning so low.

When Edyit, Little Devil and even Mikel all joined BR were they at the top. NO, they were not. But via USD or dedication (LD) they got into the top 6 score. But now, since they developed their characters to where they are now, you wish to penalize them because they are in the same clan.

When people want everything equal such things as communism of course come to mind. That is intuitively obvious to the most casual observer.

With retraining you may not be able to beat Koy, but you certainly may be able to beat the others in BR. But you refuse to even try retraining. Did not 2 people in BR unlearn almost all their ED spells in response to your massive DM? But you do not counter that. Again and again you bring the same discussion to the table but refuse to try to counter those in BR to beat them. And yet again you will ask me "how can I beat the Great BR?". But I will again not tell you how to do it.

So PLEASE, do not type about the inadequacies of the clan system when you stand pat, sit in your solo clan and watch the proceedings from the sidelines.
In BR we lend items to each other, lend cash to each other, etc... If you were in a clan with some others that do the same, some of us in BR would certainly be beatable. So you and Verifex wish to punish those in BR for doing what the clan system wants, a bunch of friends playing in a clan helping each other out.

Mem August 12 2007 1:39 PM EDT

I don't know if anyone recalls a time about, say, a month ago when BR had a hard time staying in the top 3, let alone the top clan. Just give it some time for me to get my character where OB's was, and you'll all have what you want-- competition. Although, we certainly aren't just going to hand it to you.

P.S. It seems to me as if there's a lot of jealousy going on around here. It also seems that instead of whining about it to some higher power, it would behoove you to take matters into your own hands. Is not that the only thing we can truly control?

Mem August 12 2007 1:44 PM EDT

P.P.S. I don't believe personal disagreements are grounds for an argument either way on what Verifex proposes here.

P.P.P.S. Re: Verifex's statement-- "The top users in the game can dominate the clan system fairly easily, week after week, after week, after month, after month, after year." A weak point of merit indeed. Would it not follow that the top players are those that fight the most? Would it not also follow that these players fighting the most get the most amount of clan points? If you're proposing a smaller clan limit come out and say it, man. Don't hide behind your feeble attempts at an argument.

1 MINUTE 1 August 12 2007 1:54 PM EDT

you're an idiot

Mem August 12 2007 1:55 PM EDT

Yet another Post Script: The clan system is originally what got me hooked on this game. The clan I was in (Battle Royale) when I got hooked made it hard to leave. The clan system got me back into this game. If you ruin the clan system out of jealousy you ruin my reason for staying here. (Although, perhaps, to some that may be a good thing...)

(Please forgive the plenitude of posts I've consecutively contributed...)

QBRanger August 12 2007 2:31 PM EDT

"you're an idiot"

Exquisite retort.

Care to elaborate? Or will your words show your true intelligence?

MissingNo August 12 2007 2:39 PM EDT

I think the arguments in this thread are a little too personal and need to be against or for the general clan system as a whole.

QBRanger August 12 2007 2:44 PM EDT

Unfortunately the thread is mostly directed towards BR in that "Of the players in the top clan (battle royale) one cannot lose CPs at all, three of them only have one viable opponent and it is the same one for all 3, and one is within hitting range of other people."

Without BR being on top most of the time, I doubt threads like this would exist.

When OB was in BR, we did not have the top spot at all. in fact, we were lucky to be in the top 5 some days. In fact, I personally like to have 4 people in BR, but we took in a 5th just to see if once BR was not on top, if people still thought the clan system was broken. And guess what? The clan system worked just fine as no thread like this one were created.

But now that we have lost OB and are back on top, threads like this are born. So yes, this is a personal attack on BR, no matter what others say/profess. And I will defend BR as best I can, as we have done nothing wrong and worked entirely within the system as it was created.

1 MINUTE 1 August 12 2007 2:58 PM EDT

Yeah ranger spoken to mem in Chatmail.

AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] August 12 2007 3:23 PM EDT

My god, I really shouldn't have mentioned BR in my post, I didn't mean to single out any one single person or clan, I was just using examples to prove a point. I don't think that Rangers work or anyone elses work should be dismissed, far from it!

All I want is a clan system where his work he puts in daily and say.. my work that I put in daily (of course I'm not in a clan, but lets not split hairs here ;) ) both equate to some semblence of competition, that if won, is rewarded. Currently, some users start a week of clan points from a place where they can only gain points, while others start a week of clan points from a place where they can only hope to break even. I don't really think that is much of a competition, do you understand?

Mikel August 12 2007 3:25 PM EDT

Wow, this thread is going downhill.

Let's back up, before this BA rate change, we were easily in first most of the time simply because we fought as much as possible, and then the BA rates changed and made it a little more competitive. All we did then was just fight more effectively; and that wasn't enough was it??

There's nothing stopping any of the rest of you from joining into one clan other than yourselves.

Sut, we discussed it as well as to how you could beat most everyone in BR, you refused to retrain because you wanted your cake, ice cream and eat it too. You were arguing that you wanted to beat BR, some of us told you how, but you wanted to keep your current fight list and beat BR and we said that might not be possible.

Sut, what is your goal exactly? Beat BR, beat everyone else, or both? I would suggest you start with beating BR then work your way around to tying up the other holes.

DT (Dreaded Tiger) beats 3/4 of the top MPR players in BR, but he's very weak to mages. He obviously feels that it's more important to him to beat BR first and worry about everyone else later than having one that beats everyone but BR.

I don't even mind that one person that's not from BR can beat me, he's only one, and I don't see a major need to go changing my strat all around to stop him. In time, he will get added to my fight list, but there's no real rush.

QBsutekh137 August 12 2007 3:39 PM EDT

Who is an idiot? I'm not even clear on where that was directed?

Ranger, you managed to write a lot without addressing a single one of my points. I'll summarize what you did do, in an effort so that, if you are interested in a looking-for-common-ground discussion, you can maybe avoid it in the future):

-- Made it sound like I was jealous of BR or still trying to beat them. Good grief, man! Get OVER yourself! I could not possible care less about beating a single member of your clan. I cannot beat them now, nor will I ever be able to. That is 100% OK with me, and has been for many, many months (hence my intensity and bewilderment that you _still_ insist that is an issue). VERIFEX started the thread, and I agree with his sentiment and well-worded post. There is NOTHING in my post to make it about me (I don't even really clan!), yet you insist on making it about me. Then, folks come on wanting to shut down the discussion because it's "too personal". I did not make it that way, you did, a tactic you have used over and over again. Stop lying about me and my intentions.
-- Made my USD expenditures sound like a detriment to my argument even after I explicitly ALREADY GRANTED that my spending of USD was nothing special and is meaningless to the "worth" conversation. Allow me to clarify: I did not say you don't have worth. I asked what worth you have above and beyond anyone else so as to make you immune to imbalance/stagnation discussions? If many people have worked as hard as you, and the rest of BR, and yet are locked out of certain aspects of the game, how do you justify that?
-- Went right back to telling us all how hard you have worked to get where you are, completely side-stepping what it is about YOUR work that makes you so much more worthy to the current CB clan dynamics. You didn't work hard with Koy, Ranger. That's a lie. You BOUGHT Koy after he was already the largest MPR in the game. And you BOUGHT into the largest tattoo. That's not any kind of work any more than what Bast or PoisoN have put into the game (in my opinion, it is actually less).
-- When all else fails, you simply state something to the effect of: "I am right, it is obvious", as you did with the "When people want everything equal such things as communism of course come to mind. That is intuitively obvious to the most casual observer." statement. Fairness = communism? What? Do you even know what either word means? It is, in fact, not obvious at all. That's why we are trying to have a civil discussion about it (I am, anyway). There is a fairly standard name for someone who simply says whatever they want in threads and then tacks on, "Anyone can see that, and if you can't, you are wrong." That person is called a troll. You are using trolling tactics to side-track a relevant discussion that Verifex took time to initiate, and you are offering nothing constructive to the discussion.

These are your tactics thus far on this thread.

And you still haven't discussed any of the issues I brought up. Probably my fault for asking too many questions at once. To remedy that, I'll start asking things one at a time. I'll start with a simple one:

Do you think you have worked harder in this game than anyone else, and if the answer is "yes", please define "work".

(Justification for question: Ranger bases many discussion points on a "worth makes right" basis. I am trying to establish where that sense of entitlement comes from in his particular case so as to better understand it.)

QBRanger August 12 2007 5:28 PM EDT

Sut,

You rant and rant and rant some more. I addressed your points but you do not read what you do not want.

But I will address this. Yes, I bought Koy when it was Cosmos with its top MPR. But I also sold TAB with its number 2 MPR. I paid 3M more for Cosmos then I got for Koy so IMO that is a wash.

When I sold out, I had the highest tattoo, I paid almost exactly what I got for Steeds when I bought Jayuu's tattoo, so no extra USD there.

You CANNOT and NEVER AGAIN should say that I got Koy to where it is and Steeds to where it is via USD. So get over that point.

Again, BR does not have a lock on the top spot. If you would retrain, yes I will bring that point up again and again, you may be able to beat 4 out of the 5 in BR.

You spout of fairness, but what about fairness to those who have played and raised their characters? Where is the fairness to these people when we reward mediocrity?

You spout about my USD, yet a great deal of my NW is via low % instas.

IE, My tattoo is worth 100M, I essentially got it for a wash when I sold my other tattoo when I sold out. I leveled this tattoo without a challenge bonus from about 3M to its current 4.5M. Hardly any work there-NOT! The MH I am using I got at less then 1/3 its NW. The DB's I got about 40% of their NW. Right there is 400M NW I paid less then 100M for. About the same as you paid for your 3 minions.

So you cannot say "Made my USD expenditures sound like a detriment to my argument even after I explicitly ALREADY GRANTED that my spending of USD was nothing special and is meaningless to the "worth" conversation." and walk away from things. You spend a lot of money on buying minions, I spend money on my items.

Now the work on Koy! When I got Koy it was about 1.6M MPR, now it is almost 3M MPR. That alone is a lot of time and effort considering I have never gotten more than a 3% challenge bonus and never had a NUB/NCB with it. That is 1.4M MPR I achieved with Koy. If you cannot see the effort in that, you are blind. Bast did a NCB and her effort is remarkable as well. PoisoN has done wonders.

But if you look at the battles I fought with TAB and Koy, it is near the top 3. That, sir, is effort.

So do not EVER tell me I am lying, when you certainly do not know the facts or are blind to them. And do not call me a troll when I am defending my clan and myself from people who believe that things should be just handed to them. Let us change the clan system since BR is doing so well. But no threads on the subject when BR was struggling with OB. Then the clan system is fine.

AdminNightStrike August 12 2007 5:53 PM EDT

"When I got Koy it was about 1.6M MPR, now it is almost 3M MPR."

Just for the record (and to find a use for my calculator....)

1,599,999 MPR = 81,530,222 XP
2,936,737 MPR = 174,191,389 XP

Difference = 92,661,167 XP

...wow. Seriously.

48Zach August 12 2007 5:55 PM EDT

Clans are fine as they are.. Leave em alone!!

Go Damage Inc.!!!

Spawn August 12 2007 5:55 PM EDT

Clans are fine as they are.. Leave em alone!!


Go Damage Inc.!!

AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] August 12 2007 6:36 PM EDT

Ranger, stop it with this straw man defense. You have a great character, and a great clan, and this post is NOT JUST ABOUT YOU, or your clan. This is about all clans in general.

The point is though, that in clans, it is always a matter of the higher PR/Score clan will beat the lower score clan (unless of course one of the clans simply isn't battling).

What would make the clan system fun, would be to mix it up a bit, make it so that both super-power chars and newb chars can participate in the challenge, something which I would think you would even half-support.

I like the idea that Avoid had, when he talked about making the CP's you gain from a battle a function of multiple factors (including score/PR) or something. That would make it a little interesting, it also might be interesting to make the negative CPs a function as well. If you battle someone, and your challenge bonus is negative then you shouldn't necessarily give that person a negative CP to their clan.

QBRanger August 12 2007 6:50 PM EDT

Verifex,

I would believe you if there had been posts like this when BR was not number 1.

But alas, that is not true. Only when BR is number 1, then garbage like this post come about.

All I know is that if it looks like a Duck, sounds like a Duck, tastes like a Duck, it sure ain't chicken.

You just cannot start a thread like this and not expect people to disagree with it. And to use that pathetic "straw man" link is funnier then Robin Williams on crank.

If you posted this when BR was out of the top 5, I would have believed you were not specifically typing about BR. But you refer to BR quite a lot in your first post and I feel obliged to respond in kind. How is it not about BR being in the top spot now?

Please feel free to quote something else from the wiki and put words into my mouth. You are not alone in your attempts.

What exactly are clans supposed to do? I believe they are doing just that. A group of friends/people who fight for a common goal. BR is now just better at it then most other clans. And you wish to penalize us for that. A very typical American way.

AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] August 12 2007 6:55 PM EDT

I can't believe you are taking the stance that I made this post because I have something to gain from this. I am not even in a clan, have not been in a clan for a very long time (not anywhere in the CPs gained for a year), and I don't even have enough time to be in a clan. I'm simply restating what I said a long time ago, because no action was ever taken on it. If there was another clan at the top, or whoever it wouldn't have mattered.

The point being, nobody listened the last 2, 3 or 4 times this same post was made. Listing off your clan and members in your clan as data points does not mean anything at all, I just wanted it to be looked at and even addressed.

QBRanger August 12 2007 7:02 PM EDT

Veri,

It was addressed in the past. The failure to take an action on something means it was addressed.

Perhaps it is not the result you want, but it still was addressed.

To continue to make posts like this, especially referring to BR will continue this type of thread. A very non productive thread that degenerates into what it is now. But I cannot stand by and let stuff like this go unnoticed by me.

stoner14 August 12 2007 7:15 PM EDT

your arguments, Ranger, are the same as the ones the rich use to explain why there are still millions of people dieing around the world from starvation and lots of cureable diseases. plus, you do not 'work' harder than everyone else. If someone works as hard as you do or harder then where is the fairness in them never able to even get close to you?

J[Hybrid]Schnappes August 12 2007 7:23 PM EDT

In the majority of online games I have played there is always a player/players who are the best and are looked up to by other players. This game needs Battle Royale because they are what will keep new players playing or at least I believe it will. What is the point in playing if you can become part of the best clan almost immediately the top 15 players are Idols to CB, the are the cornerstones of it...(yes I know all 15 corners) ;).

It's just like Nightstrike, And his fortune. I know I want to have all of that money like him but it is never gonna happen, But it will sure as hell keep me playing until I get close to the amount of money he has. Soon you will be saying. Shouldn't there be a max limit on money you can have at any one time.

You'll keep changing and changing the game until it becomes pointless. The game is only fun if you have goals and Currently some of my goals is to have Koy's score and Nightstrike's money. There needs to be some sort of Hierarchy within the game, Therefore you will notice when you become better. If there is no Battle Royale then the Hierarchy is disbanded and the game becomes relatively goal-less.

QBRanger August 12 2007 7:24 PM EDT

Well, stoner.

My dad was a middle class employee of a shipping company in NY. He never made more then 40k a year.

However, I worked hard to get where I am now. Should I give it all away to help those starving all over the world? FYI, I do donate a lot of time and money to my Temple so I try to do my part. Should I give all my xp away to new character since i am doing well. Or give away some of my NW as a "tax".

It is not my fault Jon lowered the NCB so people cannot get near my MPR. I have advocated numerous times since it was lowered to raise it.

But you, as well as others, fail to realize the amount of battles in total I fought, and the time I put into CB. But o'well. It is human nature to want to see the top dog go down.

stoner14 August 12 2007 7:38 PM EDT

What a productive life, you became the top dog on a browser based internet mmo. Why is it even that big of a deal, not even 6k people play this game, probably way less "370 users active in the last 7 days", you are defending it like it is your prize possession in life. well, ok then you have fun. =)
And yes, im argueing on here too, but just for laughs i hardly fight or anything else anymore.

48Zach August 12 2007 7:39 PM EDT

After all this has been said, what can we really do, to even make a difference into the game? Sure, people have said some valid points here and there, but really, it's all just arguing and no one is getting to the point. People want a clan system change.. I only have one question though.. I can only express this soo many times, so this will be my last, as nobody really seems to be listening.

Why change the clan system?

Every clan can and will be taken out of the top spot from now and then. Every clan has at least one person who can be defeated by numerous people, which make them lost CP's.. To back up Battle Royale here, in the past week, 6928 CP's have been taken away from them.. Sure, It's not as high as other clan's, but it still makes it possible to subtract from them.. Why change that?

4 out of 5 members in BR have a 6 BA Refresh Rate.. This means they receive LESS BA per day than most of the other clans, which makes it almost needed for them to pay to buy BA daily.. Sure, you say that you buy all your BA daily already.. But most people don't. Easily, 4/5 of clans don't have a character that has a 6BA refresh rate in it. So, that being said.. The other clans get more BA per day, to spend on getting CP's, as long as they choose to come on and spend it.. Thats what dedication is called.. and as far as I am concerned, Battle Royale uses a fair bit of it..

And for the last point.. ALL clans, and that is EVERY clan, has the opportunity to be in the top 5, and take over the top spot.. Look at Pallotta Family. They were in first place for a little while there, because they came on and spent there BA.. Now, to counter that, you might say "Well they have a lot of members".. Well then look at clans like BR2, or Damage Inc.. They both have taken over top spot from BR from time to time.. All clans have to do, is get their members to come online and spend their BA, and that will give them a good ranking..

As for the clan bonuses.. Between Rank 1 and Rank 5, there is a 1% bonus difference.. ONLY 1%.. and there is also 70-72 clans receiving a bonus! So, can I really ask.. What is 1%? Say you get $1,000 from a fight.. By having 14% and being ranked 5th, you lose a whopping $10 from not being in 1st.. Now, most people that I know, consider that junk-change.. If you find $10 a lot.. Try forging.

Thats my $0.02 -- Flame Away on me.

QBRanger August 12 2007 7:40 PM EDT

Well stoner,

Thanks for putting my life in prospective. I'll just quit now that you gave me an epiphany.

U da man!!!

Mem August 12 2007 7:57 PM EDT

If all the members of 12 members of the Pallota Family were using most of their BA every day they'd quite easily eclipse BR. Think about it-- these 12 "novice players" would be getting round about 36k cps per day if they were all as dedicated as the members of any veteran clan out there. There is room for these so called "novice players" to have fun and be rewarded within the current system. Why should we make it any easier for them? What if a clan that has that many members actually does start using all their BA? Are we going to be calling for a nerf on them because they're getting 15k more cps per day than the second best clan? And if you give a clan like that an added bonus they could be scoring 50k cps per day... Now who would think that was fair?

QBsutekh137 August 12 2007 8:15 PM EDT

Ranger, you didn't answer my question.

And I will continue to say whatever I want (just not any more in this thread). But forums were open last time I checked.

You state: "You CANNOT and NEVER AGAIN should say that I got Koy to where it is and Steeds to where it is via USD. So get over that point." Sorry, but that's another roundabout untruth (the kind you are VERY good at). By saying that, you are insinuating that I stated you got Koy where it is via USD. I never said that. Here's what I did say (not that you'll ever understand *sigh*): I said you have used USD, and that using USD is not "work". Other people have built very nice empires without using any USD, so isn't that more "work"? What about a new user who wants to put in all "work", no USD, and still can't get close to the top or put any sort of dents in BR?

In other words, you attribute something to me I have never said, skew it a bit, and then make a big deal of it (that's one type of straw-man, as Verifex so aptly pointed out). And in my world, those who depend on straw-man arguments are, in fact, not telling the truth. That's my opinion. Continuing with straw-manning arguments even after a couple of people have pointed out that is exactly what you are doing is even more deplorable.

You aren't going to answer my questions, you don't wwant to reach common ground, and your viewpoints are, in your opinion, obvious and correct to anyone with a brain (damn, that makes it hard to talk to you!). You even appear to be able to get away with non-PG language in other threads (I don't think you were talking about female dogs, were you? *smile*) You're a wall. No wonder your team is so good at damage reduction.

It amazes me that so few people can get through that wall...

Verifex, thanks for posting, and good luck on the thread. I'm out.

48Zach August 12 2007 8:27 PM EDT

Sorry, but I have to post this --

Sutekh, USD = NW.. Thus, meaning he did not use USD to build up Koy, as you cannot buy experience and Cosmos had 4 minions when he was bought.. That being said, again.. people will say "Well you can buy BA to help raise your character".. So what if you can buy BA to raise your character?

USD may have helped a little bit with that ($20 worth) but not as much as you seem to beleive.. I am not one to argue much, but I really have to defend Ranger on this subject.

Miandrital August 12 2007 8:34 PM EDT

How about this idea to make clans more interesting:

At the end of every week (right before or right after the cache flush), the top 15 clan points earners get placed into separate clans. Then the clans are opened up sense, and people can join whichever clan they want for that week. After joining a particular clan, you are not allowed to join another clan during that same week (this would, of course, only apply to fighting clans).
Clans would have unlimited space, and the bonus would be 15% for the top clan, and 1% for the last place clan (15 clans total).

I think this would be interesting because it would bring about a new sense of competition and would be more fun than the current system.

I know I haven't thought this through completely, and it will likely get blown apart, but if anyone else has suggestions it would be nice to see them.

And please, stop the bickering. It is just annoying.

QBRanger August 12 2007 8:37 PM EDT

Mian,

Very nice idea, but you would have to have a limit on clan members as everyone theoretically join one clan and get the max bonus.

Mem August 12 2007 8:45 PM EDT

Not to mention the fact that the camaraderie that currently exists between clan members (at least in my experience) would never get to develop. I think there has to be some sort of stability otherwise you run the risk of alienating a lot of people.

QBRanger August 12 2007 9:01 PM EDT

I have met quite a few great people in BR and would hate to see us not still be able to fight as a team anymore. All for a measly 1-2% more clan bonus. Mem has it 100% correct.

Fine, if it will stop all this bickering, then change the whole system. Just do not change the people I can fight alongside.

lostling August 12 2007 9:20 PM EDT

sheez all the games I've played... top clan with top people pwns everyone else -.- thats the way these games work...

theres already NUB(yep jon should get around to fixing that) and stuff y bother changing the system to make new players a little more happy -.- Zzzzz....

i kinda dont really see any new players complaining... not that im against change... but i don't see the point of flaming everyone in sight over this matter...

i think the (loss of regened BA) problem should be fixed first before we change anything else

AdminNightStrike August 13 2007 12:27 AM EDT

"How about this idea to make clans more interesting:"

I had suggested something similar, but it was refuted pretty much for Mem's reasoning -- you lose the ties that being in a clan creates. You lose the team atmosphere.

Personally, I think you could attain it if you used longer timeframes. People could be on teams for whatever time frame... x days, y months, whatever. If it's at least a month or two, those ties will develop. Ask any management development team.

AdminNightStrike August 13 2007 12:28 AM EDT

"sheez all the games I've played... top clan with top people pwns everyone else -.- thats the way these games work... "

Until they either reset because people get complain because the game isn't fun, or they die from stagnation because people leave because again, the game isn't fun.

AdminNightStrike August 13 2007 12:32 AM EDT

"What a productive life, you became the top dog on a browser based internet mmo."

stoner, you totally missed Ranger's point. He was showing that in *real life* he started from a low point and made it to a high point through hard work and determination.

He then made an analogy from that to this game, where again, he started from zero and worked his way to the top using hard work and determination.


I think the point that needs to be understood here is that no one else will have that same opportunity until Ranger decides he's had enough of people attacking him on the forums and he quits.

AdminNightStrike August 13 2007 12:34 AM EDT

Actually, it should be noted that that is what happened last time the #1 position changed hands.... Ranger's current character was previously owned by someone who made it to the top simply because Ranger stopped playing with TAB..

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] August 13 2007 12:40 AM EDT


Check your history, NightStrike.

ScY August 13 2007 12:51 AM EDT

Cosmos, which became Ranger's character Koy, was Mantra's NUB character which he took up to (i believe) 1.7M + MPR by fighting, buying BA, and of course, he got the last few hundred k mpr by hiring two minions (his second was hired at ~800k MPR I believe).

The character surpassed TAB (ranger's character) in MPR before Mantra sold out (mostly) to ranger. Ranger then took Cosmos as his own first as a 4 minion CoC strat which was later replaced by his current EC/tank strat. Ranger put considerable time into Koy, and as NS said in a previous post, fought and gained 92M exp, which is certainly nothing to scoff at.

(Feel free to correct me at any point if I am wrong, but please, lets keep it civil and no flaming)

ScY August 13 2007 12:53 AM EDT

Also i should mention that TAB was surpassed in MPR only through Mantra hiring minions (I am 98% sure, ranger can check me here), however i believe that TAB still held the #1 spot, as Mantra lost to Ranger (you can check me here too).

AdminNightStrike August 13 2007 12:59 AM EDT

As I recall, and maybe I'm wrong, Ranger decided to quit and sell out when Jon called him something so inappropriate that G fined Jon... and I do believe that this was well before Mantra surpassed TAB. In the interim between when Ranger decided he'd had enough and Mantra got to #1, Ranger's fighting was obviously not what it was. In fact, I distinctly remember that for at least a few days, Ranger fought only Dawg, purposely losing to help Dawg out. It was during this time that Mantra was able to attain #1 (if I recall correctly).

ScY August 13 2007 1:10 AM EDT

That was a part of the history that i chose to omit, only because it really casts a poor shadow on CB history, and preferred to only state the positive. Such is the talent of historians, eh? ;)

ScY August 13 2007 1:16 AM EDT

And, just to confirm, that did in fact occur. To further clarify by what i meant by positive, I mean "non-negative" ;)

QBRanger August 13 2007 6:59 AM EDT

Cosmos passed TAB about 2 months before I left CB. He bought 2 minions to do it. When he passed TAB there was a 120k MPR difference between the 2 characters that was down to about 100k when I left.

I left because some of the admins at the time were, IMO, very weak. I will not use names but one in particular decided to fine DAWG and myself arbitrarily for something others did many a time in the past. Did we deserve the fine, yes. But this admin at the time was fining people when he felt like it. When we called him on it, Jon stated something in the forum that I felt inappropriate. So I sold out. The sequela of that is the FS/WTB is only usable by its creator. It used to be anyone could post in those thread.

After a 4-5 month hiatus, I came back and rolled all the money I made selling out into buying Cosmos (now Koy) and a few of the items I currently have.

QBRanger August 13 2007 7:22 AM EDT

How about this:

Have Jon or Beee put up another poll,

Have it ask "Should it be possible to take the number 1 MPR spot if the top character fights all his/her battles?" or something similar.

If CB thinks it should be so, then fine, I will shut up.

If CB thinks not, then no more posts like this and the others like it.

Deal or no Deal?

Angel of Death [Hell Blenders] August 13 2007 7:24 AM EDT

lostling, BR is only so strong cuz they use a lot of usd with exeption of mem

and why make a fuss about that bonus??? it barely adds exp to it, i don't care about the bonus, i rather have fun with the clanppl then argue about a dumb bonus thingy

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 13 2007 8:51 AM EDT

"Have it ask "Should it be possible to take the number 1 MPR spot if the top character fights all his/her battles?" or something similar."

So its never possible to lose the top spot until the number one drops a BA, goes on holiday or thier internet connect goes down?

I thought this was a strategy game.

QBJohnnywas August 13 2007 8:53 AM EDT

Nope. Never has been. It's an endurance test.

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] August 13 2007 8:56 AM EDT


We call it the battle of attrition.

QBOddBird August 13 2007 9:04 AM EDT

AoD, that's actually quite a load of crap. =)

QBRanger August 13 2007 10:45 AM EDT

BTW,

LD has not used any USD in this game and does just fine thank you very much.

He is able to be beaten by 2 or 3 characters in the whole game, including those in BR right now.

ScY August 13 2007 12:00 PM EDT

"lostling, BR is only so strong cuz they use a lot of usd with exeption of mem"

Unfortunately that couldn't be more wrong. BR is not only the number 1 clan because they have 4 of the top 6 MPR characters in the game, but because of how much all the members help each other out.
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002BZN">Please Jon, fix the clan system.</a>