Re-theme of Home (in Changelog)


AdminJonathan November 1 2007 10:12 AM EDT

If your minions are overlapping, your browser is caching old css.

Go to Home, right click, select This Frame -> Reload Frame

Dark Dreky November 1 2007 10:14 AM EDT

woot!

mollevitteN November 1 2007 10:21 AM EDT

Ah, thank you! That really helped a lot!

QBsutekh137 November 1 2007 10:31 AM EDT

(Some of this is from the other thread...sorry for the re-post, but this is for idea consolidation purposes):

OK, don't laugh, my GIMP skills are...gimpy. But I thought I would actually try some styling to help show what I would envision as good visual elements for distinguishing home page areas:



(NOTE: I show four different styles here to give a taste, but would obviously want all four minions to have the same highlighting.)

For the first example (minion "Joe"), just a pale color offset. The second (minion "Hubbell Man") involves a gradient, not sure if that is feasible in the new theming (I know zero about CSS). The third example (minion "Dave") has a simple line...don't really like the look of that. And the fourth example uses simple italics for an offset.

Indenting works too...just indenting the items under the minion names would go a long way. As far as the above methods, I like the pale-color background the best (minion "Joe"). The color could even be paler, but still match the overall color scheme. The gradient is kind of cool too, though might be even cooler if it just graded into the background color itself.

Anyway, my visual skills are far from great, but these are some ideas... Here is another image just using gradients to background color:



As Jonathan said on the other thread, we'll wait for Pixel to REALLY turn this baby out! *smile*

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] November 1 2007 10:43 AM EDT

Winning auction notification is coming through with the <a href tag.

SNK3R November 1 2007 11:12 AM EDT

Is there a 'Heal' button anymore?

QBJohnnywas November 1 2007 11:43 AM EDT

Hadn't noticed that: I've been training HP all day as well. No healing? Or are we being auto-healed/charged now?

AdminJonathan November 1 2007 11:48 AM EDT

Heal is gone. You always autohealed before a fight before but maybe this will make it more obvious.

Eventually I will be changing it so that you heal at the end of a fight instead of at the beginning.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] November 1 2007 11:50 AM EDT

what about battles fought against you? Heal at the end of that too, or just the challenger?

Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] November 1 2007 12:28 PM EDT

Saves me some time healing...Thanks Jon.

AdminJonathan November 1 2007 12:30 PM EDT

> what about battles fought against you?

that's never been affected by your Heal.

Talion November 1 2007 2:03 PM EDT

Looks great, but 2 things are a bit annoying...

(1) The "(23)" part of the following information is wrapped on a 2nd line: "Unarmed Combat: 975,404/330,276 (74) Antimagic Field: 290,644/330,278 (?) Protection: 89,440/100,000 (23)". Maybe the font should be small enough or narrow enough so that everything always fits on one line.

(2) The drop down list boxes are a bit too big. I think they are the ones wasting the most space on the page. If they can be made a bit smaller, it would be great.

drudge November 1 2007 2:33 PM EDT

jon, hi, is there any reason we coudlnt be using custom themes right now if we make them? the old/new theme is clashing hard and is too noticeable while at work.

Talion November 1 2007 3:11 PM EDT

Also, if you look at the screen shots posted by S137, you will notice that some listed items need to be wrapped on two lines. It would be better if that never happened.

Yukk November 1 2007 5:11 PM EDT

Can you allow the page to be a bit wider ? Lines are wrapping because of limited space and now my 3 minion team goes below the fold.
It may also be partially due to the new layout, but even that small change would help.
I'm on LCD monitors at work, so I can't put my resolution above 1280x1024 for each screen. I'd guess this would be a fairly common limitation about now.
Just a little more "compactness" would improve usability.

AdminJonathan November 1 2007 5:56 PM EDT

> is there any reason we coudlnt be using custom themes right now if we make them?

yes, it's not really ready yet. if you made a custom theme it would probably be broken next week.

after the sidebar is done it should be relatively stable.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] November 1 2007 7:43 PM EDT

btw is the the new home page going to fit on my 17" monitor running 1152*864 or do i need to buy a 19"?

drudge November 1 2007 8:27 PM EDT

> after the sidebar is done it should be relatively stable.

gotcha! please give us a official 'go-ahead' when we can begin to skin the new theme.

Maelstrom November 1 2007 11:39 PM EDT

Here's a screenshot I took, and oh-so-artfully added comments to with good ole Paint.

Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us

My main complaint is the tiny font size throughout, and generally how the stats are so crammed together. There's LOTS of room to space things out. (I'm using a widescreen laptop now, so there's extra greyspace to the right, but regardless, there's lots of unused space.)

Also, please increase the width of the "equipped armor" column, at least to accommodate the length of all un-named items. You couldn't possible accommodate all the names people give items, but at least let the default names each fit on one line.

The unequipped armor and weapons section headers seem unnecessary to me, especially when there are no items unequipped. Can those headers be removed completely (we know what the item types are!), or at least hide them when there are no unequipped items?

Also, I'd prefer it if the borderlines were tweaked a bit to seem less heavy. Maybe remove some of them, too?

AdminJonathan November 1 2007 11:45 PM EDT

you can stop commenting on the page width because i am am not making it wider.

lostling November 1 2007 11:58 PM EDT

maybe verifex can add it as an addon?

QBsutekh137 November 2 2007 12:28 AM EDT

Here's an idea -- think like a player...

What we all log into to see is BA. BA should stand out, even if nastily. It should be right by the character name. That's just one example. Think like a player, then add visual elements to accommodate.

The "bunching" comments are about distinguishing things. Pixel might have some ideas... If you aren't going to make it wider, then business rules need to dictate better segmentation. This can't really be compromised upon. We'd rather have more rows of more logical delineations (and concomitant highlighting) than have wrapping. You can't "get used" to something that doesn't follow the business rules of the game. Well, you can, but it will only hurt in the long run.

It's like data normalization, Jonathan. You wouldn't compromise your data model just to accommodate some other scheme, would you? These visual elements are our data model. They need to flow as such.

[P]Mitt November 2 2007 12:46 AM EDT

Hey Jon, did you get rid of healing costs? Because ever since we got the new homepage, HP has been a number, not a fraction.

And before the change, I would fight a battle (lose some HP) and come back to Home and at the top there would be a "Heal - ($4)" or something like that. And now when I come back to the homepage after a fight, there is no heal button

TheHatchetman November 2 2007 12:52 AM EDT

"Hey Jon, did you get rid of healing costs?"

I think he just removed them from sight and had CB assume you always wanted to be healed... Remember, Jon's an illusionist. He made challenge bonus appear before your very eyes. He can make healing cost do just the opposite as well ;)

QBsutekh137 November 2 2007 12:53 AM EDT

Mitt, I think Jon already addressed that up above... Healing is going to change, no button required.

AdminJonathan November 2 2007 1:43 AM EDT

> If you aren't going to make it wider, then business rules need to dictate better segmentation.

I never said I wasn't going to improve it. I'm just tired of explaining why we're moving to a fixed-width layout.

Flamey November 2 2007 1:56 AM EDT

Shields, or the BoM appears under the armour side again, I thought we had a vote to get it changed to the weapon side, unless I remember wrong? But I do remember that it changed.

Fanta [Fanta's Forge] November 2 2007 2:01 AM EDT

I always liked it on the armor side anyways :P

Hyrule Castle November 2 2007 2:28 AM EDT

From: system (1:59 AM EDT)
Your student PyroBob has achieved: Place an order at the <a href=/wiki/Blacksmith>Blacksmith</a> business
From: system (1:55 AM EDT)
Your student PyroBob has achieved: Defeat <i>Feralro</i>
From: system (1:54 AM EDT)
Your student PyroBob has achieved: Achieve a <a href=/wiki/Score>Score</a> of 500


Seems system mail for mentors is a lil goofed up...seems to have some html in there thats not workin right :P

QBRanger November 2 2007 2:31 AM EDT

Perhaps those messages are not sent in HTML but rather Plain Text.

Flamey November 2 2007 2:34 AM EDT

Looks exactly the same as if it were in chat, but I'm pretty sure it got brought about 4 times already.

drudge November 2 2007 4:29 AM EDT

they are delivered as HTML so if they appear on home page, it is in HTML. if they are delivered to chatmail, it only shows code cause chatmail cant parse HTML into what it should be.

Flamey November 2 2007 5:04 AM EDT

I know how they're delivered, but I think you mean how they're delivered in chat and not how they're delivered in chatmail. People are saying it's broken and it's displaying like it would in chat, just in plain text.

QBJohnnywas November 2 2007 5:24 AM EDT

I've had 24 hours to get used to it. And I think it looks good. But I'm sort of with Sut with viewing it from a playing point of view; fonts are kind of small, which if you're spending a lot of time logged on can be a bit tiring on the eyes.

Although it does make it harder for colleagues at work to look over my shoulder to see what I'm doing....;)

But yeah, I like it. I can remember logging on to CB2 after being used to CB1, this isn't quite as drastic as that change. And we all got used to that. I seem to remember people not liking the sidebar very much, the loss of the active threads that we used to have etc. And now people obviously like it and are used to it; otherwise you wouldn't be getting negative comments. People will get used to this and like it I suspect.


:)

QBsutekh137 November 2 2007 9:51 AM EDT

Indeed, I am getting used to it as well. Just setting off minion names a bit and helping with the wrapping (which I have no doubt will be done and will look great!) will pretty much make it perfect!

Last Gasp November 2 2007 11:39 AM EDT

Could we have fixed width on the drop down boxes? If it could just determine which is the largest and then set ALL of them to have that same Width, I think it would make things much neater and a bit easier to read.

Godpanda November 2 2007 12:21 PM EDT

TABS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TABS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TABS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TABS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




I love it =D

AdminJonathan November 2 2007 12:23 PM EDT

Added tabs.

Make sure you have the latest css again before complaining.

"Go to Home, right click, select This Frame -> Reload Frame"

Otherwise it will be pretty ugly.

Khardin November 2 2007 12:26 PM EDT

Get an error when I try to change my equipment... I reloaded the page a couple of times to see if my page was outdated.

krasko November 2 2007 12:26 PM EDT

Evasion: 73 / 66
Magic Missile: 1,133,078 / 1,291,708
It used to be like 300k evasion and 2mil MM ...

krasko November 2 2007 12:28 PM EDT

Oh sry that are the effects not the lvl of the spells...i guess it showing now effects ,not levels...

48Zach November 2 2007 12:28 PM EDT

Krasko, that is the effect of each.. I said this as well.. Levels must be viewed from the Train page..

I didnt like this either.

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] November 2 2007 12:29 PM EDT


Where's the tab for "I have a mousewheel & I'm not afraid to use it!"? For anyone balancing stats or equipment between minions, we can't just see them all on one page and scroll up & down?

AdminJonathan November 2 2007 12:34 PM EDT

I took out the tabs for now since they were too broken under IE7.

Gigan November 2 2007 12:36 PM EDT

I agree with Bast. Though the tabs look very organized, they make balancing stats/ equipment frustrating. I appreciate all the effort, but maybe we could have the choice to opt out of certain tabing.

Thank you.

48Zach November 2 2007 12:36 PM EDT

For while the tabs were there, I came across this..

Evasion shows the boosted effect on the left side like so : Evasion: 115 / 95 (115 being the effect AFTER items, and 95 before)

While Enchantments and DD spells show it on the right, like so: Fireball: 331,655 / 364,820 (364,820 being the effect AFTER items and 331,655 before)

Is there a reason for this? It had me confused until I thought about it.. The boosted effect is on the right for my Dispel Magic aswell.

Tabs are gone for now, but for in the future.

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] November 2 2007 12:37 PM EDT

Tabs may be 2.0 and all but... on home they just do not look very good.

I like to new no-tab version though.

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] November 2 2007 12:38 PM EDT

*the

48xVanished48 November 2 2007 12:49 PM EDT

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/429/cbtabbedsi1.png

48xVanished48 November 2 2007 12:50 PM EDT

^^ Takes you to the link of the Tabs, Just in case someone didn't get to see them. :)

QBsutekh137 November 2 2007 1:10 PM EDT

My opinion would be "no" on tabs, since I like to see everyone at once to decide how to dole out equipment. Lots of folks experiment with minions, equipment, etc... If you can't see them all at the same time, it's hard to compare who best to give the Corn to, for example. Lots of clicking back and forth in the tabs...

Maelstrom November 2 2007 3:03 PM EDT

I missed getting to try the tabs. It's a really neat idea, but (as Sut said) not very usable.

Underage Drinking [Battle Royale] November 2 2007 6:26 PM EDT

hey the new home page with my minions being tabbed are nice!! gj jon!

48Zach November 2 2007 6:28 PM EDT

THEIR BACK!

AdminJonathan November 2 2007 6:28 PM EDT

Tabs are back.

Tab nay-sayers: give it a couple days, it may grow on you.

Or if you are really impatient figure out how to create a user css file (not a theme! something you load in your browser) to override it and de-tabify it. :)

Underage Drinking [Battle Royale] November 2 2007 6:30 PM EDT

maybe if there was an option to expand all tabs to see your team as a whole rather than having to go through 'manage characters' to get the same idea with out the item stats you know?

xDanELx November 2 2007 6:30 PM EDT

The tabs are so cool. But I think impractical. I want to see an overview of my team, not just one minion at a time. This may be something that can be turned off and on in the Settings page?

AdminJonathan November 2 2007 6:33 PM EDT

> maybe if there was an option to expand all tabs to see your team as a whole

that may be really easy, or it may be really hard. i do not really have a deep enough understanding of jquery yet to know which. maybe verifex can help here.

Iluvatar[NK] November 2 2007 6:42 PM EDT

My tabs don't all fit on one line. Is that intentional?

csraven November 2 2007 6:42 PM EDT

im not liking the changes to the home page at all... i really like this style for the shops but not for the Chars...

drudge November 2 2007 6:48 PM EDT

why would you put AC in a new column next to HP? why not just at the top or the bottom of the other ones....?

this tab idea is whack. just because you CAN, doesnt mean you should.

why dont you want us to see all four minions at once? why dont you want us to do that??

SNK3R November 2 2007 7:01 PM EDT

One-minion teams, FTW. ;)

drudge November 2 2007 7:01 PM EDT

i got an easy 5 inches to the right of everything on the main page thats just grey, meanwhile my weapon/armor names are "too long" and all the stats are undearneath them! let us use that free space!

why are you making everything so cramped together when there is all this free space to the right? why do you hate us so much??

SNK3R November 2 2007 7:04 PM EDT

Because he wants fixed-width! GET OVER IT! IT WON'T CHANGE!

...

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] November 2 2007 7:08 PM EDT


The tabs are fine, as an idea, so long as I can collapse/expand them, so they're either like a stack of notecards, wherein I can only see the top one, or they are laid out one after the other and I can scroll up and down the column of notecards to compare them to each other.

On the little notecards themselves: my AMF is now, somewhat unhelpfully, ?/?. My Decay is now, somewhat unhelpfully, 0.5/0. My AS wraps. The AC reporting seems to float about, left to right -- if AC has to be on its own, it should be right justified, so HP can be whatever number and yet AC always shows up in the same place.

QBJohnnywas November 2 2007 7:21 PM EDT

Team One Minion, Tabs Good. Johnny like tabs.

Dunno how I'd feel if it was more than one minion though...

QBJohnnywas November 2 2007 7:22 PM EDT

Are we going to be able to view all of our teams on one page then? Maybe with a drag and drop for moving items or money between teams. Or am I hoping for too much for this upgrade to CB?!?!? ;)

QBJohnnywas November 2 2007 7:24 PM EDT

hmmm. Is all this re-jigging to make us more Facebook friendly by any chance?

Jason Bourne November 2 2007 7:31 PM EDT

i would like a supporter feature to be able to un-do all of this and make it go back to the way it was...where it fit my theme...please?

Wasp [Demon Forging] November 2 2007 7:37 PM EDT

These tabs look awful. Sorry to say.

AdminJonathan November 2 2007 7:52 PM EDT

> Maybe with a drag and drop for moving items or money between teams

dnd is still amazingly painful. sorry.

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] November 2 2007 8:00 PM EDT


I'm having issues with the buttons, too. I can get used to the different shade of red, but ... compare the buttons on the clan page to the buttons on the home page:

The ones on the clan page seem to resize based on the size of the word in the button, which makes the word seem centered.

The ones on the home page do not resize, and the label on each is left justified.

Suggestion: My preference would be to figure out which is going to be the largest, make them all that size, then center the text on all. I assume this is pretty difficult, given that the work is done one page at a time, so make all the buttons like the ones on the clan page.

QBJohnnywas November 2 2007 8:05 PM EDT

dnd was wishful thinking :)

Talion November 2 2007 8:06 PM EDT

The tabs are not a good idea. It is really painful to use. Sorry.

AdminLamuness November 2 2007 8:10 PM EDT

I agree. The tabs are not going to work here. The way the information was being presented previously was more useful.

Talion November 2 2007 8:15 PM EDT

Yes, please start displaying the levels again. Please.

phrog November 2 2007 8:19 PM EDT

Each character on an individual tab could be good. Minions on tabs is not a good change.

AdminLamuness November 2 2007 8:21 PM EDT

Also, by "squishing" everything in, you're making it seem as if there is more data than it actually exists. It just appears more convoluted.

noneedforthese November 2 2007 8:22 PM EDT

At the moment I cant see wat the lvl of my evasion is.. it just tells me the effective level

phrog November 2 2007 8:32 PM EDT

AMF only shows ?/?
Decay only shows 0.5... It was previously 6,000 (1).

Bartman November 2 2007 9:32 PM EDT

Guardian Angel shows ?/? as well.

I'm going to go against the group in saying I like the tabs! It's a lot easier to read than the way it was this morning.

AdminJonathan November 2 2007 9:45 PM EDT

As I've pointed out in chat, spells show effect now, not level. So spells that have always shown (?) as effect show... wait for it... ? still.

AdminJonathan November 2 2007 9:46 PM EDT

train still shows level, as always.

QBsutekh137 November 2 2007 10:37 PM EDT

Tabs are terrible. Every time I want to check my Junction to see if it is below 1.00, that's an extra click.

How can that possibly be good? Can you explain the upside? I see none, and I don't know why that viewpoint would change with time. This isn't a new look, this is a less-functional interface. Loss of function for aesthetic purposes is a tragedy in UI design.

Flamey November 2 2007 10:38 PM EDT

Jon can we have it that the stats and all appear as a bar going across, and then have the armour and weapons beneath it how it used to be? It basically makes it look similar to how it is before, separating weapons and armour into the two columns. I hope I'm making sense and you can understand me.

Did the Armour and Weapons column on unequipped items get intentionally switched?

phrog November 2 2007 10:42 PM EDT

Sorry, wasn't in chat to catch that bit of info. So, what is the point of having anything showing next to AMF (the ?s just take up space now)?

Also, why did decay change from 1 to 0.5? I did not train any different amount.

AdminJonathan November 2 2007 10:53 PM EDT

> How can that possibly be good? Can you explain the upside?

Take a deep breath. Now hold it for a couple days. :)

Can you picture people complaining if this is the way "it always was" and I changed it to the way it was a week ago? "Oh noes now I can't see my unequipped items and my minion at once, I keep having to scroll back and forth, this is so unusable!"

Sometimes you have to make tradeoffs.

> Jon can we have it that the stats and all appear as a bar going across, and then have the armour and weapons beneath it how it used to be?

No.

> It basically makes it look similar to how it is before

Which is a terrible reason. :)

AdminJonathan November 2 2007 10:54 PM EDT

> So, what is the point of having anything showing next to AMF (the ?s just take up space now)?

At least it's consistent. It's not like you were going to fill that space with anything else. :)

> Also, why did decay change from 1 to 0.5?

0.5 represents what it does a little better. Either one is essentially arbitrary.

Flamey November 2 2007 10:55 PM EDT

Well it was just so all the items didn't have to appear under the one column, but thanks for the response.

What about when I asked this, "Did the Armour and Weapons column on unequipped items get intentionally switched?"

AdminJonathan November 2 2007 10:56 PM EDT

> What about when I asked this

I think you can figure that one out all by yourself. :)

Flamey November 2 2007 10:56 PM EDT

I see you just made them tabs as well, question still stands, did the order get intentionally changed?

Flamey November 2 2007 10:57 PM EDT

Gah, posted when I was posting. Well, I guess it was intentional then, I was just wondering seeing as it doesn't make a difference, but it got changed anyway, something you don't like doing. :P

Maelstrom November 2 2007 11:01 PM EDT

Not sure why, but on the home page, the "Save Changes" and "External Transfers" buttons don't show up for one of my smaller characters.

After playing around with the tabs, I do see how I could get used to it. And it does look very nice and organized. But it's new, and of course anything different is bad ;)

Really though, I think with a bit of tweaking, it'll be great :)

Flamey November 2 2007 11:04 PM EDT

Seeing as the Auctions thread got closed and I'm guessing you don't want to her anymore on it, but curiosity got the better of me.

Do you plan on making tabs in Auctions when you view all auctions separating into the armour type like in the store? It just seems consistent to do that :)

AdminG Beee November 2 2007 11:06 PM EDT

Heh, poor Jon. You're damned if you do, Hitting Head Against Wall 2 and you're damned if you don't.

Can I have a tartan background and bagpipe music after every battle won please.

AdminJonathan November 2 2007 11:06 PM EDT

> Do you plan on making tabs in Auctions when you view all auctions separating into the armour type like in the store?

No.

> It just seems consistent to do that :)

Yeah, well, Emerson had consistency figured out a long long time ago. :)

chuck1234 November 2 2007 11:11 PM EDT

i kinda like this new arrangement, but that's because my new NCB char is single minion, no tabs to worry about; my old char is 4 minion, and I can see what the multi-minion people are griping about....maybe there should be a choice of views, since the older format allowed full info on all minions in a single frame.

The Cornerback23 November 2 2007 11:16 PM EDT

I think that it should show how much experience you have trained into your skills and what not and how your items are affecting its level not just the 1.00/1.00 for example in archery because it is frustrating to find out the actual level of your skills after all of the equipment modifications.

phrog November 2 2007 11:22 PM EDT

Thanks for the answers Jon.

Some of the reaction, I'm sure, is due to not seeing info we are used to seeing. Changes come, we'll deal. Even with the changes in the stats, I still prefer seeing the full team at once.

chuck1234 November 2 2007 11:31 PM EDT

we can always check the amount of exp trained into any skill/ spell on the training page, the new config appears precise and compact.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] November 2 2007 11:38 PM EDT

i can see my trained level on amf on the training page, where can i see my adjusted level for it though, after the corn and the aof's boosts to it?

chuck1234 November 2 2007 11:42 PM EDT

btw, an AoF will boost the AMF cast on your minion [which is somewhat self-defeating], it will not boost the AMF your minion casts on the opponent [like the Corn] :)

QBRanger November 2 2007 11:45 PM EDT

Dispel Magic: 480,262 / 487,576

Just a min ago I noted a change.

The first number is normal size, the 2nd is far smaller and all items equipped are in a smaller font then before.

QBRanger November 2 2007 11:47 PM EDT

And this is a problem with not seeing the true level after items are equipped

Unarmed Combat: 26 / 1.

By that you can see the trained level is 1 and the level after items is 26.

However, how is someone supposed to know how close they are to level 27 without seeing the actual after item level? So they know how much to train?

Are they to just pick a small number, train and relook at the homepage. Quite tedious.

QBsutekh137 November 2 2007 11:52 PM EDT

Explain to me how time (or deep breathing) is going to save me from having to click one extra time, every time, to check Junction on my second minion? That will never stop being an issue, a waste of a mouse move/click.

Unless you are planning on showing how Junction is doing on the training page? I could get behind that.

As far as how to better see the whole team when doing lots of gear rearranging, I am not sure how that will ever be easy? But yeah, I can give it a few days.

NSFY November 2 2007 11:59 PM EDT

Hobgoblins RULE! That is my second most favorite thing to be after ombudsman. HOBGOBLIN!! PH34R!!

QBRanger November 3 2007 12:02 AM EDT

I concur with Sut and Dudemus in that somewhere the effective level, after items, has to be displayed.

Perhaps not on the homepage to keep it clean, but somewhere one has to be able to see it.

(CB1)logan666 [Jago] November 3 2007 12:19 AM EDT

I'm still undecided about the tabs on the home page but think after a few days that I will grow to like it. However, like some I would like to be able to view my current/base levels on spells/skills somewhere. If not on the home page then the training page would be the next logical choice. Knowing what level some skills are at makes it easier to know what level you need to train them too for maximum benefit instead of just guessing what they need to be at. Can we please have this at least somewhere easily accessible for us?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] November 3 2007 12:21 AM EDT

perhaps in the manage characters section we could see it. that would probably mean that others could as well, but i tell all who ask what my stats are anyways.

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] November 3 2007 12:24 AM EDT

>> So, what is the point of having anything showing next to AMF (the ?s just take up space now)?

>At least it's consistent. It's not like you were going to fill that space with anything else. :)

>> It just seems consistent to do that :)

>Yeah, well, Emerson had consistency figured out a long long time ago. :)

So sometimes we are doing things just for consistency's sake, despite the general unhelpfulness, and sometimes we are being inconsistent because hobgoblins suck?

QBRanger November 3 2007 12:24 AM EDT

I would believe the most logical place would be on the train page under the Train button itself.

Under each minion, have the modified/base level of your skills and spells as your stats are shown on the homepage for now.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] November 3 2007 12:28 AM EDT

the training page would be fine for me as well, except for the fact that even if i don't train, once i open that page i can't do much else for several minutes now.

i am not saying that is a reason not to put it there though. :)

Lord Bob November 3 2007 12:30 AM EDT

I could get used to the tabs, so I won't knock them now. I'll wait to see if they become a problem in the next week or so.

Eliminating the level of trained spells on the Homepage? Terrible, terrible change. I do hope this gets changed back.

If you're going to change the way any stats are displayed, why not change AC to read enchantment AC/total AC? At least that would help us keep track of how much AC goes to combat DD spells.

QBOddBird November 3 2007 12:30 AM EDT

Hm. Gotta agree, I'm not a big fan of being unable to see my effective levels, since I have all this stat-affecting gear on and I'm unsure exactly what level my BL is. It's all about laziness here for me, 'cuz every item I'm wearing here boosts or penalizes my stats in some way - I don't want to have to make all those calculations.

I guess that was my post for the month. *chuckles*

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] November 3 2007 1:43 AM EDT

"> How can that possibly be good? Can you explain the upside?

Take a deep breath. Now hold it for a couple days. :)

Can you picture people complaining if this is the way "it always was" and I changed it to the way it was a week ago? "Oh noes now I can't see my unequipped items and my minion at once, I keep having to scroll back and forth, this is so unusable!"

Sometimes you have to make tradeoffs"

Bad tradeoff. I get to see my unequipped items and 1 minion at the expense of seeing the team as a whole. If I hit F11 or minimized chat I could see the items and minions previously. Even if I have to scroll down to see unequipped items that seems preferable to this.

Sure it will grow on me, I can live with it. Still going to be worse than the way the info was presented before this change. The ability to view the team as a whole seems like such a basic no brainer function I really don't understand it.

QBOddBird November 3 2007 1:51 AM EDT

That I don't mind so much, being a single minion. However, being unable to see my effective BL level bothers me (all I see is BL: .60/.55) since I don't know exactly how much more ST I can train. I'm sure this'll be a problem for Archers/Junction minions as well.

Additionally, though I'm not sure if it'll have an effect - do armor penalties apply first or item bonuses (to Skills)? It'd be important to know if, from now on, we have to calculate this stuff from our Train page.

Relic November 3 2007 2:23 AM EDT

Antimagic Field: ? / ?

We need to see the effective level of our stats with equipment. The train page does not do that. Is this forthcoming or a change we will just have to get used to?

QBJohnnywas November 3 2007 2:25 AM EDT

Jon,

if your intention here is to re-arrange us to make us more Facebook friendly (you did state a little while back your interest in getting CB onto FB) then the tabs IMO work far better than having to scroll around in that oh so small FB application window. I play a couple of games on there - Warbook and Mobile Weapons Battle Stations - and navigating around the site where you have to scroll down to see things or find the link to another page is incredibly awkward . Having everything within a certain area would be so much better and make me enjoy those games a whole lot more. But that's me, playing with either a touchpad at home and an old mouse without scroll wheel elsewhere.

I'm not sure about the ability to see exact figures of stats on the home page. I don't actually think about numbers too much so it doesn't affect my own gameplay. However you've a main hardcore of players here who worry about the numbers an incredible amount. Some of the time I think it's unnecessary. But some of the bug fixes that occur do so because people can see the numbers.

But if you're planning on expanding the player base I guess the percentage of people who worry about the numbers is going to drop considerably......;)


Mem November 3 2007 2:41 AM EDT

These tabs are unbearable. Why do we have to create code of our own to view our whole team at once when that's been the status quo for nearly three years? It doesn't even make it look better... unless you're into huge, tacky buttons.

I suppose my opinion doesn't really matter in the long run, but there hasn't been a change to the interface that I've liked yet. This game is beginning to wear on me.

Iluvatar[NK] November 3 2007 3:03 AM EDT

Agreed with mem. I have not heard a single cogent argument favoring tabs (no, putting it on facebook is not good enough), whereas the anti-opinion is quite strong.

I throw my lot in firmly with the conservatives. The initial modifications were.. well, I didn't like them, but I could get used to them. Tabs for minions though? Zero use, simply hassle.

And not 3 years - like nearly seven? -_-

drudge November 3 2007 3:51 AM EDT

please get rid of tabbed minions and use the tabs for characters instead.....and also,if you can, quit cramping and smooshing everything, let us use our montiors and not only 1/2 of it.

QBJohnnywas November 3 2007 4:12 AM EDT

"I have not heard a single cogent argument favoring tabs (no, putting it on facebook is not good enough), whereas the anti-opinion is quite strong. "


If Jon is planning a move to Facebook then I think from Jon's perspective the following figures might be the strongest argument for his current format direction:

Carnage Blender: 387 active users from the past 7 days
Warbook: 126,473 daily active users


Just a thought....

TheHatchetman November 3 2007 4:18 AM EDT

I can't imagine CB with so many players...

QBJohnnywas November 3 2007 4:32 AM EDT

But imagine if Jon could persuade 10% of that amount to become supporters.....

drudge November 3 2007 4:36 AM EDT

facebook? what? i dont follow....

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] November 3 2007 5:08 AM EDT

"Carnage Blender: 387 active users from the past 7 days
Warbook: 126,473 daily active users

But imagine if Jon could persuade 10% of that amount to become supporters....."

And if he did convince 10% of them.. then he would be $126,473 Richer.
Oh and as for the tabs for home page... I hate them and thats the last I will say on the subject.

Thanatos November 3 2007 6:13 AM EDT

Suggestion
Could you make the training page like a box
please no tabs here.

1 2

3 4

Would be easier to look at, it gets pushed off the rightside of the
monitor. With the control box to the left and the chat at the bottom. Would look better too.

Tabs take a little getting used to. But I Like them.

Thank Thanatos

miteke [Superheros] November 3 2007 8:29 AM EDT

I would prefer a tree view that allowed the user to selectively open the minions details, with the default settings stored under the character permanently. So if you open minion 1 and 4, next time you view the home page, minion 1 and 4 are shown in full with an open tree node, while minions 2 and 3 are shown in summary with a closed tree node.

The Pope [Serenity In Chaos] November 3 2007 8:35 AM EDT

my character American Solo doesn't have the external transfer button at the bottom how do i transfer cash?

The Pope [Serenity In Chaos] November 3 2007 8:43 AM EDT

I had to buy a dagger to get the external transfer option at the bottom of the page, which shouldn't that always be there to transfer cash?

Fanta [Fanta's Forge] November 3 2007 1:17 PM EDT

I like Miteke's idea, if what he means is like the menus on the sidebar where you can open/minimize them...

Lord Bob November 3 2007 1:53 PM EDT

I third Miteke's idea.

th00p November 3 2007 3:36 PM EDT

Pure hatred.

QBBarzooMonkey November 3 2007 5:52 PM EDT

It would earn me a forum ban if I were to accurately describe my contempt for the new tab setup. That's all I have to say about that.

Sfx23 [Dark Knights] November 3 2007 8:18 PM EDT

I think its pretty cool the new them. Good Job!

BluBBen November 5 2007 3:36 PM EST

From: system (1:13 PM EST)
Your student madhatr has achieved: Defeat <i>Ubudamia</i>


Something is wrong with this code, please change it.

Adminedyit November 5 2007 3:41 PM EST

Everyone should say thanks for the Show All Minions button.
Thanks a lot Jon!!!! :8^)

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] November 5 2007 3:47 PM EST

Indeed. Things are definitely looking up.

So, of course thanks are in order. For all who work on the re-theme, even though not everything is 100% to my liking.

Thanks, people, the show all option rocks :P

Lord Bob November 5 2007 4:00 PM EST

I do like the show all button, but would like the option to set it as default.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] November 5 2007 4:01 PM EST

Loving the show all options now, but what is up with the lag?

AdminShade November 5 2007 4:01 PM EST

What lag do you mean? It loads instantly for me...

IndependenZ November 5 2007 4:03 PM EST

I'm actually starting to like the tabbed home and train page! It looks way more organized than "show all", for now. Anyway, I don't know anyone has brought this up before butナ

On the home page, on the minions, can there be some kind of item slots? Right now, all items are a bit cluttered. For example:

Body Armor: A Combat Gi [1] (+75)
Cloak: An Elven Cloak [4] (+12)
Footwear: A Pair of Elven Boots [10] (+30)
Gloves: A Pair of Helm's Gauntlets [4] (+14)
Headgear: A Helm of Ecthelion [6] (+17)
Power shield: None
Shield: None
Amulet: An Amulet of Focus [0] (+11)
Melee weapon: None
Ranged weapon: An Enforcer's Crossbow [4x930] (+93)
Ammunition: 1,349 Bolts [10x1] (+0)

Maybe it's too much text for one page, but I think it would clarify it. I have no idea whether this is hard to code or just easy to theme, but it's just an idea.

Lord Bob November 5 2007 4:33 PM EST

"What lag do you mean? It loads instantly for me..."

Yeah, mine loads pretty fast.

AdminJonathan November 5 2007 6:14 PM EST

> On the home page, on the minions, can there be some kind of item slots?

I mocked this up before going with the current design, but I didn't like it. Sorry. :)

Cube November 5 2007 9:51 PM EST

Carnage Blender»Auctions» A Helm of Clearsight [&#8209;5]

^That's what appears at the top of the page in auctions when a HoC is auctioned and you click on the auction link

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] November 5 2007 10:04 PM EST

Im getting lag again, =/ It was back to normal, but after i bought BA, BAM, lag.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] November 5 2007 10:06 PM EST

and its back to normal again, lol, nevermind.

Underage Drinking [Battle Royale] November 7 2007 6:28 AM EST

i wish to ask for something to be added. when the tabs are expanded and we un/equip items or training xp, once the page refreshes from the change is it possible for it not to revert back to tabs again?

phrog November 7 2007 9:15 AM EST

Yes, yes, that is my request, too.

QBRanger November 7 2007 9:29 AM EST

I think most of us would like the option to keep "show all minions" on both the home and train pages as the default.

From what I heard from Jon in chat, this will not occur at least until the entire Re-theme of CB is complete.

Underage Drinking [Battle Royale] November 7 2007 9:34 PM EST

yesh, default no tabs, tho i like the unequipped weapons and armor tabs. maybe add tabs for each minion to hide their gear and stats in tabs stats/weapons/armor?

Underage Drinking [Battle Royale] November 12 2007 11:18 PM EST

maybe you should have a look at this. i know its been addressed but not sure if its been fixed.

From: auctioneer (5:42 PM EST)
You won A Mithril Shield [20] (+1) for 402029 -- <a href="/gc/view-one.tcl?classified_ad_id=107394">details here</a>

This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002GQw">Re-theme of Home</a>