New users are GREAT! But... (in General)
January 26 2008 8:13 PM EST
I don't think we need to keep *everybody* that comes onto the site.
What I'm saying is that those who are obviously unwilling to adjust to the lack of graphics and the PG rule in chat (and the rest of the game) most likely are not going to change their views... CB is a strategy game. With strategy, comes depth... Depth = lots to learn.
I know if I don't like something, I'm not going to be willing to learn it... Those who show no interest in learning it, have no business here (IMO). They don't like the game, they will not learn how to play properly (which is probably the only thing able to change their mind). They will come in, annoy others, spout off with non-PG and/or rudeness and/or try to pick up 320 lb amazon gender unknowns. They will fail. They will leave...
Why are there so many trying to keep people like this? Yes, it's true that more people would show more appreciation for a game if they were to learn it. But has there ever been a case where someone has come in, made a donkey of themselves, been disruptful and rude to all around, then was redeemed by someone else's act of kindness, took up an interest, and actually became anyone that anyone would ever care to see log in again?
Seriously, if someone shows interest, by all means, help them. Slip ups will occur, stuff happens. But if someone is obviously uninterested with no intentions of changing, let them go. If you want to be nice about it, wish them the best of luck in finding a game more suited to their interests...
You will not change their interests, just as they will not change yours.
Just my 2 cents.
I agree, we don't need to go out of our way to try and keep new players that don't have any interest in the game.
January 26 2008 8:27 PM EST
I didn't read the above message, but for those who were there, DEADMAN.
I will forever LOLz him
January 26 2008 8:42 PM EST
Yes, such people sometimes do become good members of the community.
I agree with you that some people just aren't going to like it and aren't willing to learn it. However, that's no reason to be rude or demeaning towards them in Chat until they make up their mind. It isn't OUR decision whether or not they will enjoy the game, it is theirs, and we shouldn't be actively discouraging them.
There's -my- 2 cents.
January 26 2008 9:05 PM EST
I assume you were referring to the conversation below. Most of it was taken out of context, but nothing important to the conversation was deleted.
"DEADMAN> y dont you run around with a guy killing people
ignignokt left the room.
<PyroFlamer> its a text based game..
<OddBird> You do run around with a guy killing people. It's more like reading a book than watching a movie, DEADMAN.
<DEADMAN> this is so [non-PG] wat r we soposed to do here"
Sounds like that mind was pretty made up.
"<DEADMAN> how is it fun siting here cliking a button that says fight "
Moreso... (this is the point where I let him know the game was not his type of game, and requested he find something more suited to his own interests)
"<DEADMAN> are there any girls here chating"
"<DEADMAN> not like that you dorks how old r u people
[deleted a bunch of age posting here for the sake of longevity- and here's where i get demeaning]
<The_Hatchetman> we're the dorks, your the poop-for-brains searching for a love connection at a site called carnage blender...
<Armageddon> it says 1862
<DEADMAN> holly crap im 14
<OddBird> wow! That snuck up on ya, eh?
<PyroFlamer> no wonder your looking for graphics
<GummyBear> take it easy on him, "carnage blender" is a very permiscuous game, could easily be mistaken
<Esoteric> Oh makes sense, can you read? Maybe you need a visual game.
<OddBird> no need to be demeaning.
<Esoteric> Im being honest
<The_Hatchetman> demeaning fits in some scenario...
<Armageddon> you should read a sweet book called I Am Legend
<Armageddon> that has some graphics
<The_Hatchetman> we're dorks, losers and playing a game that lives an alternative lifestyle (PG ftw!)..."
I don't think there is anyone that knows me who can say I show intolerance, or impatience for anything other than blatant retardation and/or rudeness... But in those scenarios, I stand by my saying "<The_Hatchetman> demeaning fits in some scenario..."
DEADMAN was not the only reason for this thread, only the most recent. There have been many others I've seen people aggrivate themselves trying to help in a fruitless effort that will lead to nothing more than name-calling, non-PG, and a kick/kill...
We don't need players like this, and I don't know who wants them.
No matter how much you try to tell me about soccer and how cool it is, I will never go to a game. Should you somehow convince/force me to go to one, I will likely misbehave. Same concept with CB and people like DEADMAN...
When they show they obviously don't want to be here, why try to keep them?
January 26 2008 9:13 PM EST
Now that we've had that conversation from your side, let's have it from mine.
DEADMAN> ANY ONE WANT TO TALK
OddBird> not in caps, we don't.
edyit> easy on the caps please
severthrak> Lose the caps.
DEADMAN> now does any one want to talk
severthrak> Cool. We're the chat-op tenors.
DEADMAN> wat is this game
edyit> whats up deadmna
edyit> this is Carnage Blender@
edyit> 2 even
DEADMAN> wat is it about
At this point, he looks interested to me. A short while later, you meander back into Chat. A short discussion about Playstations ensues, and then he says -two- more lines:
DEADMAN> y dont you run around with a guy killing people
DEADMAN> this is so [stupid] wat r we soposed to do here
which are shortly followed by:
The_Hatchetman> this obviously isnt your game type
The_Hatchetman> move on and find something more enjoyable for your standards
The_Hatchetman> nope... 'tis been my experience that there is too much to learn to draw in the "i need graphics" crowd
Yes, I took out all the filler convo. You can paste it here if you think it is relevant.
If you ask me, that's someone being -very- presumptuous. He didn't understand the game yet, and so he was frustrated and said it was stupid. I mean he's 14. Come ON. That doesn't mean that YOU know what he will or will not like.
Maybe he would have liked CB, and perhaps not. But I think maybe a little friendlier, more understanding environment from a few of our less patient veterans might foster a stronger desire to play, don't you think?
The kick itself was not without good cause, mind you. I'm not disputing that at all, he'd already been warned about slurs. However, like you said, this isn't the first time.
Just try being NICE to the newbies, even if you don't personally think they'll like the game, eh?
January 26 2008 9:14 PM EST
the following is merely my 2 pennies:
I totally agree with the idea behind hatch's statements but wanted to point out that there are more than likely a fairly large number of "noobs" that come to check out the game and may play and WATCH the chat but not necessarily take part. I think the basic idea of having tolerance for the intolerable is to show people who do like the game (and are lurking) that it's a nice place to be and that it's filled with, for the most part, tolerant people who are friendly and willing to help. people who don't want to be here WILL find their way in and surely find their way out. patients is sometimes the best way to deal with ignorance.
having said all that, can we make hatch a chat-op??? I'd like that.
KICK KILL KICK KILL KICK KILL!! FTW.
January 26 2008 9:22 PM EST
I understand the need to type fast, and make a few mistakes you don't care to correct in the process, but typing something that only barely resembles "English" in the first place... ouch.
January 26 2008 9:27 PM EST
Well, well, aren't we elitists :P.
Hatch, I completely agree that someone who isn't willing to follow the rules, and whines a lot about how this game isn't flashy enough for him/her shouldn't be given extra attention in an attempt to coerce him/her into the playing game.
However, we've all been noobs at one point or another - some with proper grammar and sentence structure, and others with.. not-so-glamorous vocabulary. How long has Deadman been here? How much time has he been given to better familiarize himself with the game?
That being said, it's not like you can't point out the obvious cases of disinterest. Not that we have any of those, of course, and it's not like they'd ever, ever, see Hatch's, or any of our posts :P. Some aspect of the game appeals to people who have joined, who have stayed, who are reading this. Not all hope is lost, Hatch :3.
Maybe you're just having a bad day?
January 26 2008 9:34 PM EST
Keep in mind that new players drive the economy. CB would become stagnant real fast without a steady flow of newbies. I applaud all of Jon's effort to publicize the site and it makes sense to make that a top priority.
With regards to the occasional pre/mid pubescent idiots, poster child of the pathetic public education system here in North America and the emotional immatures, I think a little patience is in order. I am not a frequent user of chat so I do not face the annoyance that these kids can cause. However, I don't think Jon should hold back on the newbie recruitment. Just bear with the occasional dim light bulbs who like to make their lack of intelligence known. I am sure the problem is no where near endemic enough to render chat intolerable. Forge on newbies, keep coming :).
January 26 2008 10:11 PM EST
Forsaken: nope, not having the best of days... Perhaps my tone is a little off due to this, but my ideas are not. I have never understood the need to try to keep someone who only wants to whine about how much the game sucks. And grammar is far from an issue... keep three things in mind, and all is well. Letters are letters, numbers are numbers, caps lock is annoying. :P
Ulord: I never said holding back on recruitment was a good idea... I am all for having many new players come and experience what the site has to offer. I am all for helping those who show any interest. I am not for keeping those that pretty obviously don't want to stay, but don't have the common sense to just log out... Like i said in the first two sentences of the thread (including the title) "New users are GREAT! But I don't think we need to keep *everybody*...
This is not your standard cookie cutter game, and therefore will only appeal to some. Keep them. There are others it doesn't appeal to who are still willing to keep an open mind and try something new (like me when i started). Keep them. There are some who this game does not appeal to, and the only thing keeping them around is the hopes of using the chat to annoy, disrupt, and possibly even "hook up" with others... Drop them...
January 26 2008 10:20 PM EST
This is my viewpoint: If you're patient enough to help them - the players who don't know anything about text-based games, the newbies who haven't a clue, etc - then you should help them. But if you're just going to harass the newbie, then stop "helping"...after all, Jon's working hard to try and get new players to join the game.
Again, you aren't the one deciding if they like the game or not, -they- are.
haha i agree.. hey wait a minute im a new person... oh yeah i like this game... and yeah deadman was funny
January 26 2008 11:44 PM EST
When did I harass anyone? I made one slick remark to counter several...
I particularly like this:
"<DEADMAN> holly crap im 14
<OddBird> wow! That snuck up on ya, eh?"
i have to tell PyroFlamer that I'm 13 and i don't need graphics, so the assumption that us 'young' people need graphics isn't correct, i think having [more] graphics would be nice, but that's not necessary for making the game cool/fun
January 27 2008 12:08 AM EST
I think CB can be choosey. And it should be.
If you embrace that ideal, truly, there is never any need to get frustrated or...anything. Hatch, you are "good stuff". I'll say it, I can read it in a poster or chatter 17.8 miles away. Let's find an "in between".
You are correct -- let's have pride and be Jif. Let's face it...Skippy sucks. So we'll be Jif. But don't lose any sleep over enforcing peanut quality. The community will do that, sooner or later. And you are a big part of the community (I mean that).
It's not wrong that sometimes "punks" turn out pretty well. Sometimes CB helps them. I was powered by one for a time, and that was important. Your sentiment is important. Extremely so. Just be sure to temper it with two things:
-- Maybe some extra time can help a seeming lost-cause out.
-- Maybe one should step out and let someone else handle, to make sure one is not taking this personally.
Then you *smile*.
i think that we should try to include/invite newbies into chat, e.g. at 1st, i was a little hesitant to talk in chat cuz i didn't 'know' u guys, and mostly just communicated through CM, and chat is pretty nice to have, and using CM can take a long time to receive depending
January 27 2008 12:14 AM EST
wow... apparently i missed an entire section of replies looking through this thread... Apparently, i missed the earlier part of the conversation. Seems he was interested for a brief moment. His interests quickly shifted. My earlier responses were not meant as rude, and it seems only one person took them as so. Best part is that it wasn't even the person the comments were speaking to...
I perticularly enjoy this line:
"Just try being NICE to the newbies, even if you don't personally think they'll like the game, eh?"
Y'know... I've had some issues with that, big ol' meanie that I am. But I'll try to keep this in mind...
January 27 2008 12:05 PM EST
To be honest, I've never found CB to be a particularly... Open game. And it's quite sad. I never got one line from my mentor. I'm pretty sure I was kicked multiple times in my first week of CB. And, once or twice, an op apologized for it. Or at least explained it. Don't remember which, but I do remember if it had been any different, I wouldn't be here. If that op hadn't had the decency to explain, to talk, I wouldn't have bothered trying to like a game that at first glance seems impossible to figure out and has no graphics to entertain me. Oh, and maybe the game would be better off without me, but I contributed my ten back (In CB to someone else) to the game, so blah.
There's Bast, giving up at someone's grammar. That's grand. Really. We need more people being eliminated from CB because of spelling choices. By the way, half the people I've made a point of letting them know how it works here, that proper spelling is appreciated, immediately set about doing better. So, maybe less being better than them, and more helping them? Just a thought...
I have for so long marvelled at the "The kick is a warning, and so isn't serious". The first time you're here, you have -no- idea how serious a kick is. And most ops don't care to find the time to let a new player know it's not really a big deal. I'm not saying don't punish people, but let them know it's a crime first! They say an un-pg word, and they're kicked. No one told them it was against the rules, and when they come back, they're annoyed, or angry, or whatever. Kicks are not warnings. Warnings come -before- punishments. A kick is a mild punishment, and should be treated as such.
But I'm not really trying to blame the ops. The "normal" chatters do the same thing, without the /kick. They get annoyed with a new players, and aren't trying to explain. I'll be the first to show a new player the little X in the corner... But only after I've showed them every other button on the sidebar.
While the chat thing is great for new players to have, players need to remember it's the very first real impression players get of this game. And you can lean back in your chair, or bed, or whatever, and tell yourself they were doomed anyways. But if a new player leaves, like DEADMAN did, the chatters were the reason (in his mind, I mean. Honestly, not sure I would do much different than Hatch...), not the game.
My 2 cents. And I'll get your change.... Of both kinds.
January 27 2008 12:08 PM EST
There will always be rotten apples in a basket of nice and juicy ones...
January 27 2008 2:43 PM EST
Nope! Skippy has more protein!
January 27 2008 3:07 PM EST
Funicello for the win! Dastardly!
When I first approached this game several years ago, I have to admit the lack of graphics really turned me off. The whole BA thing was something I didn't understand, how come we can't just let people play all the time? I wanted a game that could keep me entertained for hours. I wasn't interested in strategies, I wanted running and jumping and hacking and slashing.
But several years later (after my account had expired from inactivity) my friends drew me back into the game, I've matured much since then. Playing games like DnD and MMOs, I have been obsessed with strategy, and wanted a game with great game balance and a variety of combat options. CB has all that and more, plus a very mature community. People here are very close knit, and willing to help, from my experience. This game requires thinking, and many people who join this game and leave, leave because that bothers them. From my past MMo experience most people just want to look strong, meet girls, and feel stronger than they really are, by sticking themselves in a world where they're not half the nobody they are in real life.
January 27 2008 4:09 PM EST
I've been burned by several idiots over my time here. But I think everybody coming in deserves the same attention, the same chance. We're standing on the brink of a potentially huge influx of new players; the odds are in favour of there being a larger number of idiots than we've ever seen.
But...possibly, just possibly, if they are idiots a few people treating them as if they are not may change them. It's slight where some are concerned. But I think it's always worth it.
If they want to leave after that, well, that's their choice. But at least then I, anyway, know that I wasn't the reason somebody left and that I lived up to the sense of community that kept me here.
Elitism does nobody any favours.
Carnage elitism at it's finest.
I didn't meant to sound elitist, but the whole MMO world is driving me insane.
I am dying inside....
January 27 2008 6:42 PM EST
You should go work out so that your muscles dying on the inside will come back bigger and stronger :D
I know I am.
January 27 2008 7:35 PM EST
"There's Bast, giving up at someone's grammar. That's grand. Really. We need more people being eliminated from CB because of spelling choices. By the way, half the people I've made a point of letting them know how it works here, that proper spelling is appreciated, immediately set about doing better. So, maybe less being better than them, and more helping them? Just a thought..."
Incorrect. Bast was my pre-mentor, as I got a NUB sell-out, she eventually directed me to my mentor. She had many a CM conversations with me. This was all the while I was 13, and still spelling without much spelling/punctuation/grammar. She didn't even point anything out of the sort and just helped me with what I needed.
In fact, I came to spelling properly, using grammar and punctuation on the internet because of CB. All the respectable players typed well, so I thought I may as well join in.
January 28 2008 6:37 AM EST
People change, Flamey, even idols.
I didn't make something up about her. She said it herself. Guess you just happened to find her on a good day. I don't put down what she's done for many of the players in this game. I know she's helped many, and even I'm not so blind as to go around calling her evil because I've had different experiences with her. But her comment, in this thread demonstrates more of how I've see her interact with new players than how you personally were treated.
January 28 2008 7:10 AM EST
I had spent a lot of time in the NP chat room when it was alive. In this time, Bast would still help out the new players. Yes, she made that comment. I can guarantee you, players have come in spelling worse than "what" as "wat" and she still helped. She probably would've made a comment about them not tying properly but so what? It's like us speaking idiotically when we know how to speak perfectly fine.
Flamey, you can't argue with The Great Tin Ear. ;) Unless you really don't have anything better to do.
January 28 2008 7:49 AM EST
/me w00ts for new players! No matter how bad their spelling is, as long as they don't break any rules, they should either be helped or left alone. There's no need to discourage people. CB's just a game, it is meant for people to have fun. If you think a new player is a threat to your fun, in any way, go hide in a corner and come back to apologize. Newbs should get a warm and fuzzy welcome :D
January 28 2008 10:39 AM EST
Lay off Bast. NOW!
All chat op have good and bad days, however, we are entrusted by Jon and the senior admins to keep chat civil.
While some ops give a shorter leash then others, we all try to do what is best for the game itself. Otherwise we would not be ops. And... if one of us oversteps his/her bounds, Jon or the admins can admonish us, or even remove the ops status.
That said, there are some people who first come into CB that are beyond help. CB is not the game for them and no amount of help will change that. Some get very frustrated, others just want to spam as it is their nature.
However, now with the FB interface, why not go back to 2 chatrooms. One for new players and one for more experience ones. That way, certain people can interface with the new influx while others can be with the "old friends" they know.
January 28 2008 10:42 AM EST
Epiphany, I hope you will continue to express your opinion in these open forums.
I miss both Bast and War in chat :P
January 28 2008 11:15 AM EST
Haha, good ole Bast.... come back to chat!
sum1 has 2 korect meh spellin
January 28 2008 12:35 PM EST
Have you forgotten already, Ranger, only 2-3 people ever in NP to deal with the influx while everyone else stayed in carnage Chat? I definitely like it better the way it is. It doesn't bother my conversation to answer a newbie's questions.
January 28 2008 1:55 PM EST
I have no forgotten, but if FB is going to give up a new huge influx of people, then 2 rooms certainly will be needed.
January 28 2008 3:20 PM EST
I understand what you are saying, but look at it from my point of view....
Which is better:
1 room, carnage. Many newbies come in, flooding the room with questions, comments, and etc. Many vets are there, too, to answer the questions. Normal conversation may be more disrupted, but the newbies will always have help available.
2 rooms, carnage and New Players. Many newbies come in, flood new players with questions, and there's still just 2-3 people there to answer them.
it has been many moons since i have been in chat, but can supporters not still create their own rooms? if so, then i fail to see a problem with the current setup as if and when it gets crowded just start up a new room for chatting.
Or require all mentors to spend at least 12 hours? a week in New Players or lose their Mentor status....
January 28 2008 3:37 PM EST
I'd prefer if you had to spend a percentage of your time online in the New Players room instead, if that kind of procedure were implemented - I don't always have 12 full hours to dedicate to CB per week. I usually do, but not always. :)
January 28 2008 3:59 PM EST
"Or require all mentors to spend at least 12 hours? a week in New Players or lose their Mentor status...."
I had 15 mentees at one time and I had trouble spending 15 minutes a week helping for the simple reason that only a couple of them ever communicated with me.
January 28 2008 6:01 PM EST
eye bin a weigh sew dint sea this. If gnucomers dont like it hear they wheel leeve off there oan accord. At leest give em a chance to not like it.
This game will (wheel) die if we (whee ? ) dont keep a sense of humour (you americans can take the 'u' out of that if you like).
I 4 1 dont want 2c it dye.
January 28 2008 10:24 PM EST
Haha, very nice, Freed xD and a good point made, as well!
This thread is closed to new posts.
However, you are welcome to reference it
from a new thread; link this with the html
<a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002KrV">New users are GREAT! But...</a>