Sunday afternoon strategy talk - Children of Hurin (in General)

AdminShade March 23 2008 10:03 AM EDT

Hey there you strategy builders, my character might need a bit tinkering or just want to talk some strategy through...

Score / PR / MPR: 1,785,559 / 1,663,459 / 1,437,007
Max Tattoo Level: 2,981,508

Turin Turambar:
HP: 1,625,000
ST: 1,039,500 / 550,000
DX: 2,100,000 / 1,400,000
Bloodlust: 210,000 / 140,000

Named Vorpal Blade [63x3500] (+109)
Named Amulet of Might [0] (+10)
Named Trollskin Armor [22] (+47)
Named Elven Cloak [4] (+11)
Named Elven Boots [10] (+26)
Named Elven Gloves [3] (+12)
Named Helm of Ecthelion [6] (+16)
Named Mage Shield [0] (+45)
A 2007 CB T-shirt [1]
Total AC: 166

Nienor Niniel:
Antimagic Field: 1,681,500 / 1,475,000
Haste: 855,000 / 750,000 ( 583,214 effect)

A Cornuthaum [0] (+7)
A Rune of Enlightenment lvl 20 / A Jigorokano Familiar lvl 6,928

Basically yes, I don't use a ranged weapon. Why? Because I don't like to be standing there switching my weapons in the first round of melee or missing some other rounds. Therefore my build needs to live through ranged. Tough!

Any ideas on what to keep on training, what to improve armor / weapon wise?

AdminShade March 23 2008 10:04 AM EDT

Oh, and if you need more information, prices of upgrades or anything, just let me know. :)

ActionAction March 23 2008 10:21 AM EDT

Oh, those upped ST and DX values are so nice and pretty :D. I also love your theme ~__~.

Anyway, I'm sure you've thought of this, but have you tried an Amulet of Focus instead of your Amulet of Might? If you were to make the switch, I would swap out the Elven Gloves for Tulkas' Gauntlets :). You'd get more AC, a boosted BL, more DX, and a bigger bonus from your Haste, at the cost of losing X% amount of ST bonus - unless you were really keen on upping a pair of TGs to +20 o.o.

lostling March 23 2008 10:21 AM EDT

personally i think a MH would serve you better and prehaps DBs to help you survive earlier rounds

AdminShade March 23 2008 11:28 AM EDT

How would I get a higher DX with Tulkas' and an Amulet of Focus? EG's and EB's give much more DX, not?

Amulet of Focus: at same stats it would give me 33% bonus to any skills, so 33% higher BL, which isn't needed because I get enough bonus already.

Tulkas' instead of EG's would be a waste of the DX also imo because with this I can both evade and hit more often. Would perhaps give me some 15% more ST which would result in 7% more damage. Instead now I have the chance to train a bit more ST and still do that damage.

A Morgul Hammer could do more damage, but I would lose a LOT of DX then. 2 handed weapon + Mage Shield = not a great combo for this.

Displacement Boots could help perhaps, though I'd have to pump too much money into it I think...

BluBBen March 23 2008 11:35 AM EDT

I don't have much time to think about this and write a good response. But if you are to upgrade anything I would get that Corn to +8.

Ulord[NK] March 23 2008 12:02 PM EDT

Hey Shade. Good old school melee tank build. Let's face it, you are not gonna be beating good archer teams. You might as well go for the mage kill. Slap on a ToE and watch mages fry themselves. I wouldn't even worry too much about landing a hit. I think Hatchetman's old build is something to consider. Go with a heavy melee tank. Slap on heavy armor and forget about dex. Heavy AC + MGS + ToE + large Amf. Clean up with VB after they are done frying themselves.

Also, you might want to start an ncb. You can easily get to 6/20 in 4 months. You are not getting anywhere near 6/20 in 4 months with your current char.

AdminShade March 23 2008 12:13 PM EDT

Nice ideas Ulord, but I'm not going to hit 6/20 in 4 months with a NCB either. Also I dislike the idea of a heavy armor tank. This makes my build a bit more unique ;)

I'm using the jig to make fireballs and such spread their damage more, to live longer. Perhaps a ToE could also help... would need to be huge though :(

Brakke Bres [Ow man] March 23 2008 12:23 PM EDT

Surviving ranged, big evasion or a decent amount of armour, you currently have none, so work on that one first, your best bet is to get more armour protection on that tank.
For the Tattoo , ToE works nice but maybe get an RoBF in the back for those DD spells and you get a free melee attack.
If you decide to go RoBF maybe get a MS for decent AC?

Ulord[NK] March 23 2008 12:24 PM EDT

A ToE would help big time, especially with the recent buff due to longer ranged rounds. 75% damage reduction on top of all that layers is no joke. You can get to 6/20 with the current ncb in 4 months. I got to 2mil mpr without using RoE. With RoE, you will be able to squeeze out 200k more to hit the magical number.

Ulord[NK] March 23 2008 12:30 PM EDT

Now I know you said you don't want to use a ranged weapon, but this is so good I can't help suggesting it. Slap on an exbow, a big one. Now you are take out all tanks without huge DB (should be fairly easy as you have above average dex) in ranged and clean them up in melee. You should have a huge edge against mages anyways due to the large amf, mgs and if a ToE (Just use it, ToE is currently the top tattoo imo due to the ranged buff).

AdminShade March 23 2008 1:15 PM EDT

Surviving Ranged with regards to huge bows isn't going to be possible for me in ways of getting huge AC, they will kill me anyway.

Still most of them only hit me 1 time anyway and I can pick on the people who I want to fight. Maybe more mage teams are for my targets.

RoBF imo is overpowered and should be nerfed, not going to use (read abuse) it.

Also I used to have an Exbow, didn't work anymore as I needed to put in money into that as well. I'd rather put it in 1 big weapon than 2 small ones. My MBP atm is ~700k

QBRanger March 23 2008 1:25 PM EDT

1,377,118 / 1,005,196
My dex with a MH/MgS/MSB equipped

1,377,118 / 1,005,196
With just a MH/MgS, no bow

1,417,326 / 1,005,196
With a Katana/MgS, no bow

Equipping a bow does not change my dex.
I only lose 40k dex using a 2H weapon vs a 1H weapon. About a 3% drop in dex for the 2H weapon-Well worth it!!!

Cube March 23 2008 7:35 PM EDT

You need Evasion or DBs. There is no way around that because any bow with a plus can hit and kill you despite your large dex.

Tyriel [123456789] March 23 2008 7:43 PM EDT

You'd probably be best off targeting mages. Increase your HP, turn some of that Haste into AMF (do you really need the Haste at all?). That's all I can really say.

Ulord[NK] March 23 2008 7:52 PM EDT

You can try renting a Exbow. Something along the line of x200+100 would do and that's only 35mil or so. That means it'll cost you about 18mil to build up to one, amount that you can easily make if you start an ncb and work your way up. CBD isn't what it used to be... Also, ncb means you don't have to (or can't afford to) buy BA, so more money for upgrades.

lostling March 23 2008 8:20 PM EDT

well you could always use BOTH... but i would strongly suggest untraining haste and learning VA :) with 40% life leech from either MH + VA or BOTH + VA and additional damage from your BL you would be that much harder to kill... considering you are using a TSA and train a decent amount of HP... i would strongly suggest using that... If you want to survive archers DBs are the only logical choice....

ActionAction March 23 2008 8:31 PM EDT

Oh, wow, silly me o.o. I totally overlooked the fact that the AoF doesn't boost DX :(. I could've sworn it did.. x__o.

Cube March 23 2008 8:32 PM EDT

^Well it'd boost his haste, giving him more dex.

lostling March 23 2008 8:33 PM EDT

on a side note its high time we get an amulet of agility shouldnt we?

three4thsforsaken March 23 2008 8:45 PM EDT

the biggest weakness is by far the unnamed CB-T, it throws the whole strat out of whack :P

But anyway, there needs to be a tat here. ToE is a viable option, but also consider RoBF on the back minion. Retraining Haste into HP will allow it to spread damage over a few rounds, while protecting from MM quite nicely. The RoBF damage would also go front to back, and with a little decay on the back, a wall will take a VB, Decay, and RoBF damage in the kisser.

I know people don't like RoBF, but this definitely is another way to use it that isn't quite abuse.

j'bob March 23 2008 8:51 PM EDT

ACK! All that named gear and an UN NAMED CB-T???? Shade??? What's going on in your head? ;p

forktoad March 23 2008 9:19 PM EDT

You could add a new minion up front and train only evasion on it. Arm it with a ToE (if not an RoBF) and it could last long enough for you to attack. I use a similar strategy without any armor and can still compete with a lot of guys.

j'bob March 23 2008 9:36 PM EDT

A new minion in front with evasion...
I'd say definitely with a ToE. Mostly because of the damage reduction that lasts even if/when the wearer dies. That is if another minion is a consideration.

AdminShade March 25 2008 4:12 PM EDT

I'm proud of my unnamed CB T-shirt!

Anyway, I'm making this into a Wednesday musing also!

AdminShade March 25 2008 4:14 PM EDT

On a side note:

The 'cheap' extra minion will cost me 6 million CBD.
The 'overly expensive' extra minion will cost me 15 million CBD.

Both options are a no go imo... :x

Ulord[NK] March 25 2008 4:22 PM EDT

Again, I'm assuming that you are buying all the BAs you can now (if not, your MPR growth would trail even further from the top. The solution to your money trouble comes easily if you would just start an ncb, without even buying BA. That means you keep all your money earned from fighting. You will earn 500k a day at least from fighting alone if you maintain 100% CB for quite a long time. That's 3.5mil a week and 14mil from fighting alone in a month. Think about it this way. Since you have majority of the gear you need, a 4 month ncb will take you to 6/20 (some RoE use is necessary), provide enough fund to hire at least one minion and get you a big tattoo to use. It's hard to let go of what you have, but with these benefits, sticking to the old character would be irrational.

Lumpy Koala March 26 2008 5:35 AM EDT

On top of that, you can repeat the cycle over and over again and still achieving the same result or better each run hehehe (theoretically)

lostling March 26 2008 5:59 AM EDT

you seriously earn 500k a day from fighting at 100%? somehow i dont seem to do so lol

Sickone March 26 2008 6:19 AM EDT

Sample from my most recent fights... my single minion 200k-ish MPR NCB team.
BA cost : $2,857 apiece.
Challenge bonus 100%
Clan bonus 13.9%
NCB (xp only) 438%

All below fights are against the same opponent, scores relatively unchanged during the fighting.
Numbers obtained, sorted by magnitude and frequency.

$345 (*4)
$431 (*3)
$517 (*9)
$603 (*2)
$689 (*2)
$775 (*5)

lostling March 26 2008 11:43 AM EDT

average is around 500... lets say 600 for the sake of argument you would need 833 BA to earn 500k

worse case scenario
10/20 rate
1 day = 24hrs
24x3 = 72 BA
you only get 720 BA a day... and your telling me you can earn 500k a day?

Ulord[NK] March 26 2008 11:51 AM EDT

Notice he's only 200k MPR? Optimal level will be 600k-800k (with use of RoE, that period can be maximized). That's where you can still earn 100% and get the most reward. That's also 8/20. That's 24*24 = 576 BA/day.

The average reward is 750 there ( I have no hard data for this, just from memory).

576 * 750 = 432000

For argument's sake, I'll revise my estimate down to 400k a day. That's still 2.8mil a week. or 11.2mil a month, from fighting alone.

I made 15mil cash from my ncb run in the first month last year (with some missing BA and a lot of trading). So the estimate can't be too far off.

lostling March 26 2008 11:53 AM EDT

then wouldnt it make sense to keep staying at that level instead of 4ever restarting your NCB?

lostling March 26 2008 11:55 AM EDT

15mill / 4 = 3.75mill a week = 500k a day :)

Ulord[NK] March 26 2008 11:57 AM EDT

If your sole objective is to make money. I'm sure your income does fall as your CB goes down, but remember your reward goes up as you fight higher so that effect is partially offset. It'd be interesting to find an optimal zone for cash reward.

Then again, what is cash for? If you are not a usb sellout, cash is for empowering your character to a higher level of competitiveness. By restarting ncb over and over, you are not really advancing your character's mpr. Besides, expensive items are not viable until you hit 6/20 anyways. Before that, you want to minimize your PR to maximize reward. After 6/20, taking down as big an opponent as possible would maximize reward.

Ulord[NK] March 26 2008 11:57 AM EDT

that's including my trading profit, not just from fighting. If you look at my auction log, you'll notice I traded... a lot.

Ulord[NK] March 26 2008 11:58 AM EDT

Did I say usb sellout? x.x I meant usd sellout :P

Lumpy Koala March 26 2008 10:32 PM EDT

if only someone would buy my freaking bulky UC char, I would keep doing different NCB runs every quarter hehehe

Ulord[NK] March 26 2008 10:47 PM EDT

Are you selling? :P I'm sure people want to pay for the greatest monk in the game :)

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] March 26 2008 10:57 PM EDT

Lumpy... I'm sure if you offered to sell it someone would come buy and buy it/retrain it and buy 3 more minions... that would be one heck of a coc mage if one wanted ^_^

Lumpy Koala March 26 2008 11:04 PM EDT

hehe most likely will... I am quite bored with the limited fight pool I have everyday :P My fight list can only dwindle not increase, sigh.

Maybe you can check the sales section 3 days later hehe, I still have rentals, so can't transfer :P

AdminShade March 29 2008 9:10 AM EDT

Well my goal isn't to make money out of this, and basicly I'd need to know if I'd be able to use all the items I have now also...

Should I keep the strategy pretty much the same as it is now?

Light DX Tank
Jig / ToE

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