The Goal of the NUB. (in General)
So, as I do from time to time (when my head isn't filled with garbage), I was thinking. And I happened to be thinking about why I love the idea of the NUB, but in practice, I absolutely despise it.
Since Jon hates long posts (or just doesn't read them), I'm going to come to the point first.
The NUB's goal should NOT be to topple the current highest MPR. The goal of the NUB should be to bring the player into position where it is possible to do so. AKA, bring him to the 6/20 range. Preferably, comfortably into it.
Frankly, you cannot condense years and years of work into 4 months and then expect people to simply accept that. It's unfair to everyone involved. And you say life isn't fair. Well, I say this is CB and should be made fair as possible.
So, LA, you're in the crosshairs for this. I hold no real ill will towards you, as some NUB would have done it eventually. And I do NOT mean to say you haven't played extraordinarily well in the past 4 months. But the top players (who you now are ahead of) played just as hard as you did during those 4 months. And the 3 years preceding you ever knowing about this game.
Even you, LA, do you really believe your effort outweighs their's to the point where you should be ahead of them?
The current system is just going to become a leapfrog of NUBs, as one surpasses the other and the NCB becomes simply outrageous to contemplate, and the game is dominated by players who've been playing for 4 months.
Now, I love the NUB. I feel it's great there is a system in place to that players don't have to feel as if they're destined to just being a peon among kings.
So I say combine the two ideals. Combine the dedication required of Ranger, and all the players in the 6/20 with the desire to give new players a chance at achieving victory.
I propose the NUB's experience percentage be lowered to allow the NUB to reach 75% of the top player's MPR. This mean even with mistakes a player should be able to reach the 6/20 and from there compete. REALLY COMPETE. It may feel as if it's just a grind war there, but as more and more players reach the 6/20, competition will increase. Dominating would not be so easy, and with more targets that high, the vets who've been grinding at the 7/20 wall will finally have people above them they can beat to pull themselves up!
NUBs right now shoot up so fast. Their score and low MPR can't be easily used to help the veterans. And then because of their rate of growth they become unbeatable soon after the veterans starts attacking them, and then the NUB becomes just another person farming them as the MPR between them grows.
To cap it off, the NUB should be lowered. Allow them to compete, give them encouragement and the oppurtunity. But do not hand them the largest character in the game with reasonable effort and intelligence.
The NCB does not apply to this, though. And it needs to be clarified. The NCB's cost is ridiculous, and the vets have proven themself worthy of the oppurtunity if they can get past the cost to gain victory.
You all may not agree. But I feel very strongly that this would be the best way to work on this game.
Feedback would be wonderful. I don't want this to be a flame war. I want you to really think about a game in which the 6/20, 7/20 wall doesn't exist with such bleakness, a game where every NUB is a competitor, a friend, a comrade, not someone who had the game handed to them with free BA, and incredible rewards.
Eh. Thanks for your time. Here's hoping the goal of the NUB is re-evaluated.
April 6 2008 5:19 PM EDT
Well this is from a NUB so bear with me. LoL
I have to totally agree with Vamp. My goal is not to be the top dawg in 4 months but to be close enough to be a challenger. It sucks to find a game that as good as this one and finding it so established to just set at the bottom of the pile and never get noticed for my skills and strats. I like the idea of having nub to get to 6/20 and then have to bust butt to stay there and give some of the 7/20 another person to shoot after to help them climb.
April 6 2008 5:54 PM EDT
The MAIN problem with "NUB vs NCB" is the sheer difference in cash... one of them is practically swimming in it, the other one can't even break even if it wants to compete in growth rate.
So, from the very start, something IS terribly wrong, either with one, the other, or both as a concept... remains to be decided which.
Second, as I was already nagging about for quite a while myself too, the idea of compressing the "catch-up" phase in a fixed 4-month interval is simply put, a bit presumptuous. Especially for NUBs that are not allowed (normally) to proceed as NUBs even if they barely logged in enough to keep the account from vanishing.
Simply put, for starters, I see absolutely no reason to keep BOTH the NUB cash bonus *AND* the free BA at the same time. It's simply just too much "free stuff", and to be quite honest, not even remotely fair for older players.
In the current setup, I am actually feeling tempted to get a bunch of real-life friends interested in the game, and just tell them "ignore the tutorial, do not hire any extra minions, train 1/3 HP, max FB, and keep fighting like a madman... then 4 months later sell all your CB$ to some crazy dude for real money and never come back"... if for nothing else, then just to prove a point (hey, if some decide to stick around, good for them... if not, hey, free cash, cheap CB$ for the rest of you, etc).
So, my proposal would be to simply eliminate the concept of NUB/NCB altogether, at least in its current form.
Want to grant cash bonuses ? My opinion is that it's a mistake, the "free BA" daily are far, far more than enough of a bonus already. If anything, give the "future NUBs" a higher limit of daily free BA rather than a flat cash bonus.
As for the XP bonuses, the solution is so bleedingly obvious I have no idea why it wasn't done like this from the very start.
Simply have everybody (and I mean, each and every account) get an XP bonus according to how far from a certain percentage of the top MPR they are.
This way, you can ALWAYS catch up to the top, but the closer to the top you get, the slower you'll be catching up.
This way, the dedicated veterans get to ALWAYS keep their MPR advantage, while the dedicated newcomers can ALWAYS surpass the idle veterans, and get close (but not over) the dedicated veterans... how close, and how fast, that depends on the level of dedication and the magnitude of the bonus.
But, eh... this is just a rehash of stuff I've been "preaching" for a while now, and not many listen (or care). Some do, just not many.
it is only possible to leap frog with 150M cb$ (600+ usd for LA I guess) for a NUB, another 100M+ for an ncb so I doubt it will happen that often.
Buying 3 minions you can add 1/3 mpr so if the NUB is set to get you anywhere near the 95% this will be possible.
If LA continues to use the RoE and the n*b rate changes on the fly or Jon adjusts it in line with LA's MPR manually then the rate will skew more and more against those using tattoos further down the ladder. Ranger, Poison etc could face the situation you describe lower down the ranks where n*b chars can pass without buying minions.
I've already posted enough opinions on the n*b and have nothing new to add other than I think Jon has done a pretty good job of managing the n*b one way or another. In the beginning I thought by now it would have been a prime mover in the death of the game but it has helped keep it alive.
April 6 2008 6:09 PM EDT
I think the NUB is where it should be from my PoV.
If it was POSSIBLE to bust their butts and catch up, I'd agree with you. This is not possible with a 6/20 refresh and either zero or negative challenge bonus, along with the top players being in the top clan.
April 6 2008 6:15 PM EDT
Well, another interesting sideways issue is the way challenge bonus and/or character score is determined on one hand, and the fact that there's "hidden subtiers" within the BA regen tiers (based on BA purchase cost), and the lower tiers have a WORSE overall performance compared to the higher tiers.
So, want it or not, a revamp of the N*B system should include a major revamp of either one of these subsystems too.
April 6 2008 8:40 PM EDT
i think 6/20 BA regen should be what the N*B be targeted at...
April 6 2008 8:53 PM EDT
I would like to point out that if I'm going to spend 100m+ on BA, I'd better be getting hella close to the top. Characters don't sell for that much.
Additionally, NUBs get a 1-time chance at that price for the top, and most can't take advantage of it and they get right to the spot you are suggesting the N*B actually target.
One example of dedicated playing does not a problem make.
April 6 2008 8:53 PM EDT
I would have hoped someone within the top 25 MPRs.
Give them a top character and let them get where they can. If you look at where LA was/is right now and before, you can see he is about 3.75M MPR. Koy is now fully trained if you want to compared. What LA did was very unusual and will rarely happen again.
He gained how much per minion? I would think maybe 500k in total. Not too generous.
So he really got to 3.25M MPR and bought minions. And still just too over the top spot. I recently unlearned about 40k MPR this week.
At a cost of a high level tattoo since he used a ROE the whole way.
I know there has been discussions about buying minions and how to titrate it into the N*B. Well the way things are now, without a 0 buying option, there is no solution that we all could come up with.
I say, overall, the N*B is close to perfect where it should be. Getting someone who uses it well to the 6 regeneration level (about top 25). Getting a fanatic to the top. I would however like to see it extended at least to 6 months now that CB2 is 3 1/2 years old.
unfortunately, most NUB can't even get to 6/20 even with all these bonus. Bad builds (say 4 minions too early), repeated retrain, wasted BA, not "buying" BA all contributes to lost XP. Little Anthony gets to be that big because he plays almost perfectly and have some good understanding of the game (I believe his last account is purged by the system), which means a near 100% utilisation of the NUB bonus. That is more of an exception then a rule to me.
April 6 2008 9:03 PM EDT
i dunno :) i just dont like to see the sky get so high... but the point is... that i have repeated TONS of times...
N*B should be varied base on TIME... not bonus... make it a set bonus of say 300% and then vary the length of the bonus according to length of CB
April 6 2008 9:05 PM EDT
"Little Anthony gets to be that big because he plays almost perfectly and have some good understanding of the game (I believe his last account is purged by the system),"
Whoa, I did not know that. So he did have some prior knowledge of the game, its mechanics and how to start/grow quickly?
April 6 2008 9:07 PM EDT
"Whoa, I did not know that. So he did have some prior knowledge of the game, its mechanics and how to start/grow quickly?"
Speculation, not fact.
April 6 2008 9:13 PM EDT
sometimes i wish i could get my account purged from the system... but then i look around at my items and money and i cant bear too.. (granted that i would probably get in the region of 300mill-400mill from a NUB if i had one for 4months) keep in mind that my items and money dont come(at least directly) from USD at all... havent spent a single USD simply because i dont have any lol...
if i ran a NUB = 300mill -> 400mill?
current status... 200mill? probably... and thats including my items...
with 100mill i can buy back all my current supporter items... and then im left to ask... what is there for a vet as compared to a NUB?
April 6 2008 9:15 PM EDT
Too bad supporters never have their accounts deleted.
Your not the first to "suggest" doing that.
It is not allowed.
And being allowed to do just that is a huge loophole that should be closed quickly. Though perfectly ok for now.
April 6 2008 9:19 PM EDT
"but then i look around at my items and money and i cant bear too.. "
more like i cant be bothered to :) but yea... im just listing the pros and cons... and i find that vets just lose out.. simply because we were lucky/unlucky to discover the game earlier... and i find that kind of sad (yes i consider myself a errm vet?) (yes im kinda old now)
base the NUB off how long the "Elders" have been here for.. longer = more exp more cash.. just drunken rambling, but that seems fair to me...
April 7 2008 1:41 AM EDT
Hi, I am vampire's mentee and still I cannot agree lowering the bonus.
I have played only 2 full days, but I like being competitive and I like to stay when I know I can reach around the top group by joining late. Unless the account restarts every quarter like Utopia, I don't think I will stay if I know I can never play within the top group. Reading from most topics in this forum, I have a general feeling that everyone is quite content of the bonus now. I applause to the game master for creating such a bonus for newbies. Seriously this is the first online game with permanent attributes and daily limit that puts a lot of attention on new players.
Also I have browsed most available links in this game, and found that for those in top 50 has huge amount of N/W and huge amount of items in their teams. And those items cost a bomb when I compare prices in auction. And I even know some items will never get new stock. So honestly, new players need all their bonus, and I would ask for more if I can. From whatever earnings I have in the past 2 days, I still cannot believe why some people say NUB can earn 300million in 4 months.
April 7 2008 2:07 AM EDT
Like you said, you've only played 2 days - your cash bonus will increase given a little more time.
I agree with you, though. Newbies have a lot to catch up to, and I think that the bonus is fine where it is.
April 7 2008 3:39 AM EDT
"From whatever earnings I have in the past 2 days, I still cannot believe why some people say NUB can earn 300million in 4 months. "
First off, for best possible results, you need to be in a bonus-earning clan (up to +15% rewards bonus for the best clan, but +10% is relatively easily doable) and you need to fight opponents with high score (best bonus, double rewards, is for a 100% challenge bonus, which you get if you fight opponents with a score double or more of your PR).
Looking at your score and PR, I'd say you're only fighting at around 40-50% challenge bonus most of the time, but at least you have the clan thing down... so there's still room for improvement.
Not only that, but as a NUB you earn almost 6 times (well, 5 and a half times) more CB$ than a NCB or a regular character.
On top of it all, you get an additional 1/3 of your daily max possible BA for free, which means an extra "multiplicative" +33% bonus compared to a regular player (or NCB char).
In other words, you earn right now around a bit more than 7 times of what a similar non-NUB character would be earning if he'd be fighting just like you do, and you could be earning up to 10 times more if you increase the "quality" of your battles.
All in all, a NUB should be able to earn 2 mil CB$ per day easily, and a thorough NUB might even go over 3 mil CB$ per day in the mid-stage of his climb to power.
Still, an average of around 2.5 mil CB$ per day over the course of your 120-day NUB is quite feasable, if you play it right (so, 300 mil).
April 7 2008 3:45 AM EDT
Leave it as it is.. How many others have been as dedicated to their New User Bonus as Little Anthony that they reach the top?
April 7 2008 3:47 AM EDT
dont forget money time :) as i said 300mill is easily gotten...
April 7 2008 3:50 AM EDT
"Newbies have a lot to catch up to, and I think that the bonus is fine where it is. "
But the fact they HAVE to catch up in the first 4 months after their sign-up, or never catch up again (since, instead of 300 mil CB$, they'd be lucky to earn 40 mil CB$ on a NCB, assuming they don't buy any BA at all, and end up with a quarter less total XP compared to a NUB).
Removing the whole triple-bonus idea from NUBs (compared to the single bonus of a NCB) and more or less balancing the potential of a NUB with that of a NCB is paramount.
Yes, a NCB might or might not have the "financial backing" of his previous runs (could just as well be you're dirt poor and have a sub-100k MPR char when your NUB expires due to inactivity), but IF you plan to even come close to what a NUB can acheive, you don't only need the extra spending power to buy all those insanely expensive BA (I mean, come on, I'm at 8/20 on my NCB, and they cost almost 4k CB$ a piece already, that's 3/4 mil daily right now, more later on, the NUB get them for free, ON TOP of the cash bonus).
To put it mildly, the NUB is overpowered, NCB is underwhelming, and the mere concept of TIME-LIMITED bonuses gives me the shivers.
April 7 2008 3:53 AM EDT
i dont know :) my take on it is... keep bonus fix and vary the time... so they have to put MORE then 4 months to get the kind of results NORMAL(ignoring NCB) players get over the course of errm 2 years? and pointedly... why bother with an NCB since the top will keep getting bigger... if you NCB up soon there will be another N*B who will over take you
April 7 2008 3:57 AM EDT
"How many others have been as dedicated to their New User Bonus as Little Anthony that they reach the top? "
As far as I could tell, LA is either a "black swan" (see last episode of Numb3rs), a genuine exceptional NUB... but it's far more likely he's somebody with previous CB experience that had his last character deleted for inactivity (or worse, a very clever multi).
Sure, it's all speculation, and it's not the point of the thread... but the problem is, for those who have a clue, NUB is far too powerful... for those that don't, they can't even begin to use its power properly.
Like I've said several times before, given the current state of CB's NUB, I might just as well be tempted to NOT get supportership, NOT login at all for the next weeks/months/whatever is necessary to be deleted for inactivity, THEN start a NUB run to the top "a' la' L.A.".
The mere fact that even somebody with a decent character and decent accumulated wealth (i.e. lostling) would even ponder this alternative should tell you VOLUMES about how simply BROKEN the system is.
But, like usual, seems only a very small handful of people is listening.
In closing... just because the NUBs might be genuinely new players, SHOULD they get such a huge advantage over most other CBers ?
I mean, what have THEY done to deserve it ?
And what has a "veteran" done to deserve the humiliation which is the NCB (when compared to a NUB) ?
Especially if that veteran is not that well-situated to begin with ?
Pleas, do tell, I'm all ears. Or eyes. Whatever.
April 7 2008 4:05 AM EDT
"i dont know :) my take on it is... keep bonus fix and vary the time... so they have to put MORE then 4 months to get the kind of results NORMAL(ignoring NCB) players get over the course of errm 2 years?"
Wouldn't a progressive/rolling XP bonus based only on MPR vs some average of some top MPRs make a LOT more sense ?
And absolutely no time limits whatsoever ?
That way, the time needed to catch up to the top is always somewhat dependant on the time and effort the top CBers did spend, and the closer you get, the tougher it gets to catch up... but you ALWAYS can catch up, to a degree.
And it wouldn't matter if you're a vet or a newbie, you need exponentially more effort to climb the ranks the higher you get, but, like we know, strategy at vaguely similar MPR values IS the key... not just sheer MPR.
And with the latest changes (encumbrance, etc), the importance of NW on the top char was severely diminished too, so there's even less of an incentive to justify the cash bonuses.
The only bonus the NUBs would need at all is the "free BA", and not much else. If anything, vary the number of free BA one gets daily as a NUB, but fer chrissakes, hands off the rest of the overpowered bonuses.
April 7 2008 4:57 AM EDT
I don't know what/who is LA. But for someone who is really completely new to the game, I don't know how are you going to expect them to know how to pick enemies and perfect strategy to max out every single thing both of you said. For me, I find it quite challenging to find good targets with much higher score than my PR given the experience I have so far.
If you ask me, I would suggest to start giving bonus on the third day of joining or something. Then you will see either the guy left the game for good, or continue with some planned strategy or good advice to compete.
April 7 2008 4:59 AM EDT
some people have suggested 1 month of normal time :) but yea...
April 7 2008 5:56 AM EDT
Some people suggested the "delayed" bonuses before, indeed, some going so far as saying a month of no bonus would be ok too.
Another alternative was to slowly ramp up the bonus is the first month or two, keep the bonus at a high level like it is now for a couple of months, then ramp down the bonus again near the end of the NUB for a month or two.
That would partially solve the problem of "getting your game on" as a genuine NUB, since you'd have plenty of time to learn the ropes and experiment at the low score/PR regions where expensive gear is usually not used much at all (so experiments and retrains are cheap/fast)... and would actually benefit NUBs even more, since the "free BA" period would have to be a bit longer (even more fights under your tail before being reduced to a "regular" status means more experience).
But, like I said, nothing of the above would solve the issue of gross inequities between a NUB and a NCB.
A NUB not only has roughly the same chances as a NCB to "make it big", and it brings you a net profit... trying to mimic the performance of a NUB with a NCB would actually result in a NET LOSS of cash due to insane BA cost and lack of any cash bonuses.
Ryosuke, let me rephrase this for you.
If for some reason, during your first 4 months as a CB player you find yourself in a situation where you can't play much, but later on you have all the time in the world... tough luck, your ship already sailed, you will never get another chance at getting at the top, because it would be prohibitively expensive to do so with a NCB.
Ok, you can always shell out 500-1500 USD and buy all the CB$ you need for that second attempt (BA only, or BA+gear, also depending on CB-USD exchange rate), but that's already bearing on the ridiculous.
Still sounds fine to you now ?
I don't know why people keep coming up with rolling bonus. It merely changes the scale of XP, not giving a chance to catch up for the newer players.
April 7 2008 8:59 AM EDT
"I don't know why people keep coming up with rolling bonus. It merely changes the scale of XP, not giving a chance to catch up for the newer players. "
It gives a chance for ANYBODY to catch up with the top group, not just the new players.
The lower in MPR you are, the more XP per battle you gain, means the faster you climb.
But, the higher you climb, the lower the bonus gets, and the growth rate slows down.
You won't catch up overnight (2 months, 4 months, whatever), but if you do keep up the work at the same "BA burn rate" as the top ranks, you will get eventually CLOSE ENOUGH to them.
It ensures that everybody CAN eventually get near the top, if they put in enough effort... yet only those that remain active STAY there.
April 7 2008 9:03 AM EDT
The rolling bonus means new players will actually have to play the game, burning most of their BA for months to years instead of weeks to month to catch the top ranks.
But it also gives older players a chance to play hard and get to the top as well, given enough time.
Sickone it may seem like only a handful are listening but you are rather late to this argument, those that care have mostly left or shut up ;)
I doubt you are right about NUBs earning 10 x normal players since Jon nerfed the cash rewards quite a bit recently.
The rolling bonus will probably be seen in CB3. As for now, NUB2 is here. Because I've played longer and have more experience I'm penalised and have no chance in *ever* reaching the top. Great incentive for me to carry on playing.
April 7 2008 2:19 PM EDT
"(since, instead of 300 mil CB$, they'd be lucky to earn 40 mil CB$ on a NCB, assuming they don't buy any BA at all, and end up with a quarter less total XP compared to a NUB). "
Please do note that for any ordinary player that doesn't bother buying BA (which is free), 40 mil in 4 months is completely possible. The math has been done before.
So if a NUB is 'lucky' to earn 40 mil on their NUB, they haven't been playing much at all. Especially since they get their buyable BA for free.
And yes, the rolling bonus would be nice, and poor Hejin will never have a chance at the top unless it or some variant gets implemented, simply because that character was started in January of '05 and every single day was not hit.
April 7 2008 3:32 PM EDT
all i can say is thk god for the NUB bonus........im not about to play a game where "seniority" determines how much of a chance i have at the top ranks....that would be a waste of time...only way then to get to the top is for the "elder" players to quite or retire.
from what ive seen this game is VERY balanced......and i love it ;)
April 7 2008 3:49 PM EDT
As stated I think the NUB is fine where it is.
However, the "loophole" allowing a NUB to those who have their accounts deleted needs to be closed yesterday. The NEW user bonus is for people NEW to the game, not those with experience, even if their old account has been deleted.
The N*B is not however, The main problem is the cost. Perhaps lengthening it to 8 months for older players, who have been here at least 4, would help with the costs of the NCB. Or perhaps longer-12 months?
I want to clear up a few things about nub, having just recently finished mine. I was able to take advantage of both the nub forging bonus and the huge boost to nub that occurred. I gained a total of around 120 mil from my entire nub. This is with burning around 95% of my ba throughout my entire nub.
When n*b got ramped up I had a bonus that was just under 1500% During that time at burning 100% ba, with a nub forging bonus, a 1mil mpr char and forging on an item with the best forging properties (like the + on vb, or mage shield) I could make around 4.5 mil a day.
As nub forging bonus no longer exists I will explain about how much it was worth in terms of profit. With a nub forging bonus in terms of profit it was about the same as if I was fighting at about 100% challenge bonus in a good clan (10%+).
A nub run perfectly could probably net around 150-160 mil, actually doing this would be quite hard, likely requiring staying at the 600-800k mpr range and taking advantage of the 100% challenge bonus.
April 7 2008 3:55 PM EDT
How do you propose closing this loophole, Ranger? It would add quite a lot to the load to keep every account created, be it active or in some 'retired' form.
AFAIK, that's not a loophole that is taken advantage of often - in fact, I've almost never heard of such a thing. But I know my sister, as well as a friend of mine, both tried CB back in 2004/2005 and stopped playing and their accounts were deleted. If either thought 'Hmm, I think I'll try that game again', with the number of changes that have occurred since that time they would have no more experience in their restart than would any other CB1 vet.
So if you have a solution, by all means, propose it. But from what I see, this is just one of those cases where the solution produces a more bothersome problem.
April 7 2008 10:10 PM EDT
you can simple NOT delete ANY accounts :) problem solved :) as someone said... at 2mill a day... and 3mill on money days.... in any week you can earn up to
16mill a week... so say we make it worse... 15mill a week... 4x4 = 16 and 16 x 15 = 240mill over the course of a whole NUB :)
say if we cut the number by around say 40mill(starting basic equipment and stuff)...
you can earn 200mill over the course of a NUB as compared to some of some of the older players :)
but yep... i stand corrected... its not 300-400mill but perhaps 200mill
I don't think NUBs make 2 million a day. During my forging Frenzy, I made 6k PROFIT per BA (1551% bonus). Now this was for a bonus condensed over 2 weeks.
I remember Forsaken with a gigantor bonus as well, was making 2million CBD a day during the huge bonus time, though she wasn't being optimal, her bonus is nothing to be ignored.
I seriously doubt a NUB can make much more than my years forging NW + 20M (roughly my liquid assets prior to forging)
April 7 2008 10:50 PM EDT
lostling - that's the only solution, right, but any clue just how much server space that would absorb? There have been a -LOT- of accounts purged. As a mentor, think of all the newbies that show up and then stop playing. Just as your mentees. Now add in 30x that number for the other mentees around, and multiply it by 3 years...we're talking about holding *thousands* of accounts' data.
Granted, Jon got a new server after the whole DAWG bit, so I don't know if he's got the room for that - he might - but why in the world would we bother filling up enormous amounts of data on a new server to solve a problem that I've only ever heard of happening ONCE, and on suspicion rather than hard evidence!
April 7 2008 10:54 PM EDT
dump all accounts with less then a certain amount of fights(total fights) :)
April 7 2008 10:58 PM EDT
Now there's a good potential solution :D
April 7 2008 11:05 PM EDT
but ;) i believe thats what jon is already doing... so yep
April 7 2008 11:10 PM EDT
It may be; we don't know for 100%.
If that is what he is doing, then this should be a moot issue anyways. I'm thinking that really it is.
April 8 2008 4:59 AM EDT
"I don't think NUBs make 2 million a day."
Well, I make around 450-500k a day *right now*, and I'm a NCB, not a NUB.
A NUB will have 1/3 more "free BA" (so 600-666k per day "base"), and then you have to apply the actual bonus they get (say around *5.4 right now, for 3.2-3.6 mil CB$ a day).
Yup, would I have been a NUB right now and not a NCB, I'd be raking in well over 3 mil each day right now.
April 8 2008 5:05 AM EDT
3 mill a day with exp time would equate to around 4mill 3x5 + 4x2 = 23mill a week @.o whao
lets make it 20mill a week...
20 x 16 = 320mill HA i was right!
April 8 2008 5:19 AM EDT
Well, eventually you do hit the "challenge bonus score wall" at around 1 mil MPR, where you can no longer find enough opponents with 100% challenge bonus, and it takes a good while before you can "break through" MPR-wise to start getting high challenge bonuses again.
But, yeah, if you follow a strategy similar to the one you use right now, lostling (just train/untrain to keep at the "edge" of all-100% challenge bonus while simultaneously staying as close to the top as possible), I think you could easily rake in up to 24 mil a week on average (384 mil total)... problem is, you'd have a 1 mil-ish MPR character when your NUB is over.
For a "regular hardcore" NUB, one that would try to get to the top (a' la' LA), he'd probably be earning "only" around 300 mil, and spending 100-150 mil of it on extra minions, thus ending up with "only" 150-200 mil at the end (but also with a very, very high MPR).
April 8 2008 5:23 AM EDT
:) we shall talk in chat one of these days :) either taht or add me on gmail chat... email@example.com ;)
For a "regular hardcore" NUB, one that would try to get to the top (a' la' LA), he'd probably be earning "only" around 300 mil, and spending 100-150 mil of it on extra minions, thus ending up with "only" 150-200 mil at the end (but also with a very, very high MPR).
I would say you are smoking a lot of stuff and you have no idea what you are talking about and these numbers are coming out of your ears.
April 8 2008 6:19 AM EDT
Fine, so how much cash DID you earn during your NUB run, if "I'm talking out of my ears" ?
Maybe the minions cost you a lot more than I thought, no idea, or you wasted a lot of cash in the process (I know I did waste a lot of cash I got during my NUB on various strategies I ended up abandoning).
Sickone the bonus is not *5.4 to cash rewards, it is not the same as the N*B %, Jon reduced the cash bonus when he made BA free and then did some jiggerpokery to reduce it some more.
April 8 2008 10:11 AM EDT
Oh, in that case, I stand corrected, maybe not quite that high as I first thought.
Still, it's a bit weird, I remember earning far above 1 mil a day on the days I actively fought in the begining of my NUB, and that was in the "low bonus" days (around 220% or so IIRC).
On second thought, near the end of my NUB days, the "superbonus" days, I was only earning around 2.5 mil tops daily, so I guess the change must have happened somewhere in between ? Maybe when the "recalculated" bonus was introduced ?
So, anybody know what the exact cash bonus NUBs get is ?
April 8 2008 11:06 AM EDT
If a NUB can earn 1M+ a day for a month of his NUB, and we'll say with challenge bonus dropped he'll make half that every other day of his NUB, he'll still come out with ~75M total. That's a goodly sum, but nowhere near the amount suggested.
All of this is always based, however, on "If they are earning this much..." - a much better way to approach this would simply be to get the rewards of various NUBs that are currently playing.
April 8 2008 12:16 PM EDT
I wonder if the admins would allow an experimental NUB multi for a week or so, that would be abandoned at the end of the experiment week, with all proceedings going to central bank when done.
That way, we could at least KNOW for sure :)
April 8 2008 12:24 PM EDT
rewards at a low MPR are much lower than rewards at a higher MPR, even at equivalent challenge bonuses, and not entirely due to the 10/20 regen rate.
If you've run a couple of NCBs and tourney characters, you know this well.
April 8 2008 12:29 PM EDT
Look at my NCB's growth rate :)
You'd only need a week to reach some decent MPR, high enough to get a good approximation.
Ok, let's say two weeks, tops, more is not needed for a rough result.
April 8 2008 12:45 PM EDT
Nevrmind, found it.
"[...]The NUB money bonus has been reduced to 1/2 what it was in July, or 1/3 what it was before that. [...]"
Ok, I can only assume that means 1/3 of the NUB XP bonus.
The current NUB XP bonus should be somewhere around +450% I guess, therefore the cash bonus should be at around +150%.
Or is that +83% ?!?, as in 5.5/3 ?
Current nubs will be making about 1.3 mil a day at the 100% challenge bonus in the 600-800k mpr range.
"Ok, I can only assume that means 1/3 of the NUB XP bonus. "
i am fairly sure that would be an erroneous assumption. it doesn't say anything at all about being tied to the xp bonus and as far as i know it never was tied to the xp bonus. it is separate and designed on a magic number that jon wanted nubs to get if they used all of their ba. when it was changed to give them free ba, then the cash reward was reduced to compensate for that. this was to reduce the amount of cash nubs had to sell and thus the temptation to do so.
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