SFBM - way overpowered or quite the opposite ? (in General)
May 10 2008 6:25 AM EDT
While running a SFBM NCB, I came to some startling realisations.
First, all a SFBM really needs is a HoC *and* a RoE, to a lesser degree a pair of AGs or NSCs in order to grow.
Picking another tattoo is actually worse than picking no tattoo at all, since (if used offensively, not just for pure defence) it will only slow down your growth.
Second, while a token-level Protection and either some AMF or some DM help, you could just as well pump HP 25-50% and 50-75% in FB, and it will work wonderfully.
You can still find enough opponents that can be beaten for a decent enough challenge bonus (or, should I rather say, a decent enough XP gain) to keep growing LINEARLY in MPR with respect to battles challenged.
Third, if you care at all about clan points, you will get a few defensive items... but you will always keep switching them on/off for defence/attacks.
A ToE and DBs used defensively can work wonders, as ilustrated by my NCB... I'm usually on the positive side of clan points.
Sure, switching to ToE+DB used on the offense also meant I almost halved my growth curve compared to the previous growth rate, but it leaves me in a good position to have the tattoo leveled nicely for a possible second NCB run (or a third, or a fourth, I see no reason why I couldn't transform my tattoo into the largest tattoo in the game if I keep it up for a couple of years, speeding through NCBs to the point of MTL, then fighting with it on until the end of the NCB, then repeating the process).
Fourth, with the introduction of encumbrance, a SFBM means you suddendly have the BEST possible encumbrance-wise situation. All your HPs go towards encumbrance 100%, and your DD is boosted by the AGs before getting applied towards encumbrance.
I'm not even at 1.5 mil MPR yet, however my NW allowance is above 80 mil already.
Fifth, later on, you can swap to evasion plus EB instead of DB and get a nigh-immunity from physical damage, while your high DD level insures you "pierce through" any AMF that's raised against you.
Finally, for all it's worth... I see no reason why you shouldn't keep on fighting as a SFBM with RoE forever... the MPR growth curve (or, should I say, growth LINE) can obviously be maintained indefinitely, and it's higher than the growth rate of other, non-RoE-using characters, even in the top five... eventualy, the MPR difference would become too big compared to all the rest, and nobody would be able to beat you without a strategy that would focus on beating you and only you, at the expense of losing battles against all others.
So... what say you...
SFBM : overpowered and a must for NUBs... or way overrated ?
May 10 2008 6:32 AM EDT
May 10 2008 6:32 AM EDT
As you could probably notice, I'm not the only SFBM that started as NCB recently.
And pretty much all of them followed almost identical paths, with almost identical results.
The only differences lie in when or if they decide to drop the RoE, or what other items they chose.
Basically, it's the same strategy, with minor variations.
Is it only me who thinks this is a bad thing ?
I mean, if a single strategy is "the best", what's the point in all the other strategies then ?
May 10 2008 6:40 AM EDT
May 10 2008 6:51 AM EDT
20hp SFBM FTW =s
May 10 2008 6:56 AM EDT
AMF destroyed me. Anyone with any at all, really. 20hp bleah
May 10 2008 8:21 AM EDT
Evasion 1,000 1,000 (6)
Fireball 4,629,275 4,133,282 (680,194 ; 607,316)
Protection 88,812 90,000 (23 ; 23)
An Amulet of Invisibility  (+10) -> rental
A Pair of Displacement Boots  (+90)
A Pair of Alatar's Gloves  (+14)
A Helm of Clearsight [-5]
A Tattoo of Endurance lvl 1,754,465
Works quite nicely for me ;)
still lame, most peeps start a single fireball mage, because they don't have a clue what strategy they want in the end or don't really have any money for a proper strat. Same as for lame robf users (like myself!! wootah!)
i have had up to 7mil FB effectively. It's pretty crappy in the end.
i think about 2m mpr you will start to see that finding targets giving a good challenge bonus gets much tougher. it did for me, but things can change and it likely depends on the number of targets in that zone, which has likely increased. if it worked that good all the way through though, i would still be using it.
May 10 2008 11:44 AM EDT
I'm still fighting so that my MPR growth is almost linear.
I'm in past 1.9 mil PR, with score climbing over 2.1 mil at times... and my growth is still linear as far as I can see, with me being attacked by people above the "score wall" every now and then.
The only change was when I decided it's time to switch to the ToE to grow it... and a while later, that it was too much of a bother to keep switching between offensive and defensive setups (HOC/AG/RoE on offense, switch RoE with ToE and add DB plus some rental amulet for defence).
No... the point was, you CAN easily find SOME targets... even if just a handfull, but you can find them... that can keep you growing until 6/20. And then, it doesn't really matter who you attack anyway... if you can hit somebody above the "score wall", good... if not, everybody else is almost equally good. And with the RoE on, you can stil guarantee that your growth is faster than the other's.
IF you ever decide to switch from a SFBM strat, while expensive, that +33.33% XP boost you get from the extra minions, while insanely expensive, should guarantee a nasty advantage... even if all you use them for is enchants.
May 10 2008 11:46 AM EDT
Down low UC is way more powerful, get to 100% quicker
Even Halidon + AMF/EC was more powerful
Def. not overpowered, down low or up high
May 10 2008 2:42 PM EDT
This is why I made a character that beats SFBM hands tied behind it's back. So many targets.
May 10 2008 3:08 PM EDT
SMFB is a great way to start, to be able to switch in a ROE and maintain a high challenge bonus. And to use a TOE or S/FF in defense (if you have one). I do not like that option, using a tattoo for defense, but it is one available at this time.
The problems do occur at a higher MPR where multi-minion characters do best.
However, for quick growth, you could do far worse then a SMFB.
Just look at Little Anthony. He started out as one and look where he eventually ended up. Not too shabby.
May 10 2008 4:33 PM EDT
"The problems do occur at a higher MPR where multi-minion characters do best. "
I doubt the fact you're getting to 6/20 (right now, a bit under 2.4 mil MPR) automatically means you're beating any of the guys "above the score wall".
Actually, there's 10 people (count them if you think I make any mistakes) that barely hover around 1.9-2.4 mil score that should be in the 6/20 refresh already.
Heck, B Ark is hovering pretty much in the same score range, and most of his targets are in the 1.9-2.2 mil score range.
However, his MPR growth is pretty darn linear too.
Not only that, but his average MPR growth line is pretty consistent with the "top people" MPR growth lines except for King of Pain in the recent past, and to a much lesser degree Koyaanisqatsi's growth in about the same timespan.
In other words, if B Ark can maintain (at 6/20) a steady growth rate, consistent with the growth rate he had from the very start of CB2 more than 3 years ago (by the looks of the graph), what's there to stop somebody from doing the exact same with a "lame" (as some of you called it) strategy of a SFBM ?!?
Heck, with this, it's not a miracle Little Anthony managed to get the top MPR spot... it's a miracle nobody else did it before, or that no other NUBs do it on a regular basis !
I think a lot of Nubs could do what Little did but then again a lot of nubs don't start the game and automatically know that SFBM and RoE are the best way to go. Then in the end they would also have to be willing to spend a ton of USD in order to buy their minions.
the truth is, SFBM is simply medicore in terms of effectiveness, what makes it lame is that it is used to death.
It is simply used to grow, then people tend to branch out from there.
In terms of growth, the RoE capabilities are what makes it work best, while having a few targets of reasonable score to farm. But if you think about it, many other strats could do the same, but SFBM is single minion, and allows nice hiring capabilities.
B ark? Isn't he a Jan 1, 2005 character? Yeah he has steady growth, cause he never really had to deal with the dead zone...
SFBM is so good at the early stage. even at the beginning of dead zone (1.5m MPR), I still have 5 targets at 40% or so. I guess the alternative is like 50% DM and 25% hp, 25% FB to mop up those multi minion AS teams. I plan to move to a tank strategy as soon as I enter 6/20 (yay, no more -ve challenge bonus).
May 10 2008 8:17 PM EDT
Created SFBM wiki page.
Linked it in game strategies page.
Feel free to revise, comment or reformat as you see fit ;)
Sickone, while I DO admire that page and the work put into it, you only allow your personal experience to tint what you say. First of all, I have +11 NSC and +12 AGs. I beat more people with NSC, and it's just that simple. Telling people to use the AG is your choice.
Presenting them as equals would probably be better.
Secondly, SFBM was incredibly popular before the changes to how experienced worked, probably more so.
Secondly, lol, there is NEVER a point where you stopped getting farmed so much, unless of course you reach a 3 mil MPR... And even then....
Woah... There are ALOT of subjectives facts here....
Most mages would say that evasion eventually becomes a MUST. Literally. Tanks hit too hard without it. And while some evasion will cut down on multiple hits, using a RoE, one hit is all it takes.
Bah..... Too much subjectivity *dies*
I don't think it's very NUB friendly as well.
May 11 2008 4:08 AM EDT
"Too much subjectivity "
I can only speak from my own limited experience, as a more-than-half-idle NUB who forged a couple of DBs at the end of the NUB instead of doing something else, and then created a SFBM NCB right after NUB expired.
I am bound to be inexperienced, biased and have a couple of wrong ideas.
And hence the public invitation to correct, adnotate or rewrite the things I could not be objective about ;)
You forget one important detail.
I'm too lazy to do it myself.
And, more importantly, I figure by pointing it out, and instead of simply ripping you down and correcting it all, I would point out the errors and give you the chance yourself to go back through and open your mind =)
I have actually made a "summary" on that page. feel free to correct me.
This thread is closed to new posts.
However, you are welcome to reference it
from a new thread; link this with the html
<a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002Qu2">SFBM - way overpowered or quite the opposite ?</a>