Damage adjustments (in Changelog)


AdminJonathan June 18 2008 3:07 AM EDT

AdminJonathan June 18 2008 3:07 AM EDT

Taking suggestions for new spells (ED or otherwise).

Realistic suggestions preferred. :)

[P]Mitt June 18 2008 3:08 AM EDT

When you reduce MgS resistance, does that mean we have to get it to +11 before it starts reducing damage? Or that a +10 MgS will reduce 9% of damage?

AdminJonathan June 18 2008 3:10 AM EDT

the latter

Daz June 18 2008 3:39 AM EDT

Some basic ideas (Didn't say good). I mostly wrote these out to give ideas or inspiration.

Sanctuary - gives some kind of protection (invisibility or AC) unless the minion attacks this round.

Righteous Aura - gives some kind of protection IF the minion attacks this round.

Wall of * - Negates the enemies first ranged round. Effect relative to enemy minions *. (Negation could also be damage reduction of some kind for the first round only)

Wall of * - As above, except for melee.

Soul of Fire - protects against fire damage and causes additional damage when attacking with fire. Could be replicated for other elements (Heart of winter)

Blind - Blinds enemies, reducing PTH (Okay, not going to happen :P)

Web/Entanglement - Reduces evasion/dex

Bolster / Band of Brothers - Like AoL, except that all minions that started in the combat have to be alive for it to be effective.

Frost June 18 2008 3:44 AM EDT

spell that adds to pth for melee

spell that negates ranged pth

regen spell

Vaynard [Fees Dirt Cheap] June 18 2008 3:50 AM EDT

Is it okay if we post ideas for spells here? Feel free to delete or move this post if not. Anyways, here goes:

ED:
1) a) Barrier: reduces damage dealt to your team by 5% of effective level. Just an idea for something if you were looking for a new way to try Protection.
Or b) Barrier 2.0: absorbs a set amount of damage to your team up to 50% of trained level before failing. Just a second take on one idea. Gives a little protection for a turn or two maybe.
2) Sight: increases all of your minions accuracy.
3) Deflect blades: lowers accuracy of (all) blade weapons
4) Deflect maces: lowers accuracy of (all) blunt weapons
5) Deflect projectiles: surely you know where this is headed.
6) Drain Magic: lowers all magic damage slightly.

EO:
1) Death Aura: before the start of ranged rounds this lowers the HP of all minions (both sides) (would be after AS, would be similar to effect of DM on AS). Would have to be tiny effect to avoid overpowering, just something to take out little enchanters from the start
2) Poison: coats your minion's weapons with poison, causing each hit to deal additional damage equal to 30% of effective spell level on the next round. Also cancels HP regen effects.
3) Mana Field: makes enemy minions take additional damage from every spell hit.

DD:
1) Inversion: targets first enemy minion. Melee only. Deals 1 + % of damage reduction, then multiplied by spell level. (for example: 40% magic damage from AC and MgS would be 140% * spell level). Basically more damage against more armored / protected minions. Would definitely be interesting to watch play out.
2) Lightening: Deals damage to 1 random enemy. Basically the same as MM but randomized! CB needs randomizing!

Okay sorry, that was a lot more than I expected to do but I was really having fun! If you would like me to flesh out any of these ideas or come up with any others please let me know! Or if I'm just annoying say so too and I'll stop! Thanks!

Colonel Custard [SeeD] June 18 2008 4:17 AM EDT

Vaynard, I love those ideas. Poison to disable HP regen? Brilliant! Other ideas I read, loved, and forgot by the time I typed this sentence? Awesome!

I would like to point out, though, that the "alternative to protection" thing you suggested, in its second incarnation, where it contributes 50% of its level to absorb damage, would be a less effective investment than straight native HP, which absorbs damage at 100% of effective level. It also seems similar to AS, as it's distributing what is basically extra HP.

I really like the inverted DD spell. That would be a great thing to add to game dynamics. It's another one of those "specify to do well... but wait, don't block *too* much physical damage, or you'll be vulnerable to something else" things. Haven't mages been asking for some sort of "Vorpal"-type thing, anyway?

Why did I just forget everything I read 3 second ago? I can't even think of the names of things!

three4thsforsaken June 18 2008 4:22 AM EDT



DD: spells

(Dramatic name): 80% to back minion, 40% to self

Tankseeker spell: aims at tanks

Noldroin's Spell: something with AMF resistance

Melt: starts off low damage, grows proportionally

Summoner: deals damage indirectly though familiar, or something familiar based

I would like a spell that brings back the quick win feeling.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 18 2008 4:23 AM EDT

New DD Ideas;

1: A Front hitting DD spell.
2: Chain Lightning. Hit's First minion for most damage then a few next in line for reduced amounts. Would do average Damage around 3 minions. Less overall for lower minion counter, more for higher.

"max dx-based chance to hit is 100 + base to hit (140 for 2h, 160 for 1h, 200 for elb). was 160 for all weapons."

That would be 150 for UC?

three4thsforsaken June 18 2008 4:26 AM EDT

how about a spell that gives greater benefits during offensive battles. It helps deal with the win or stale mentality.

Colonel Custard [SeeD] June 18 2008 4:47 AM EDT

"(Dramatic name): 80% to back minion, 40% to self"

Take Down: Arcanine does 30 damage to itself

I like the 80:30 ratio. I trust the Wizards of the Coast cardmakers to know what they were doing there.

Greyfeld June 18 2008 5:08 AM EDT

Skills:
Combat Mastery - Increases PTH for equipped weapon
Natural Armor - Increases the amount of AC received by armor by X% (so, if your armor would give you 100 AC, and your skill was at 20%, you'd have 120 AC instead)
Rend - Attacks made with melee weapons rend the opponent's armor, causing it to damage its wearer, and have a chance to deal (enter damage multiplier here).
Caltrops - Causes opposing minions to have X chance of fumbling their attack every round.
Poisoned weapons - A successful attack as a chance to inflict poison on the target, applying a DoT (Damage over Time) effect which deals damage every round for X number of rounds.

DD:
Lightning - Hit front character, ignores 50% of armor (VB effect)
Vampiric Touch - Melee only. Transfers health from target to the caster.
Necromancy - Every round(2 rounds? 3 rounds?), summon 1 skeleton to attack your opponent. Skeleton is treated as a melee fighter. Skeleton stats are dependant on level of DD. Skeletons use a minion slot while they are alive (which means if you're a single minion team, you can't have more than 3... the spell would be worthless on 4 minion teams, unless allowed to summon if a minion was dead)
Landslide - Earth damage, has the same area-of-effect rules as fireball (though less damage than fireball). Has a chance every round of stunning a minion, rendering them unable to attack that round.

EO:
Mana Leech - Reduces DD on the opposing team, and increases your own (basically stealing power from the other team. Does not work if you don't have DD to "leak" the power to)
Hall of Mirrors - Creates mirror images of each of your minions around the opposing team. This causes the opposing team to have an X% chance to hit a mirror image instead of one of your own minions. Once an image is hit, it shatters. The % chance a minion has to hit a mirror image is directly related to the number of images currently in existence in the battle.

ED:
Amplify - Increase DD of all your minions by X
Mystic Armor - Increases the armor of all your minions by a flat amount per level
Troll Ancestry - All minions regenerate X% of health
Eagle Eye - Increase PTH of all minions


That's all I have for now, it's rather late. I hope somebody likes some of my suggestions :)

Gunny Pew Pew [Red Permanent Assurance] June 18 2008 5:21 AM EDT

Bird shot of ideas.....

Combat Casting: Skill, Allows DD to fire twice a round. 1.00 when trained to 1/3 of DD lvl. Base Decay buff I know....

BL having a first round cleave. A Cleave skill would nerf CoC and Ranger doesn't need a buff.

Work around to AoL + VA = team shares drain. There's your regen spell. A Regen spell + TSA(which we buy direct now) + MH/BoT = OP! Even with a cap at max HP it's still bad. sry draco

Psionic Ray: DD, ignores AoI and hits the first two minions. Inflicts the least total damage of the ranged DDs. Not standing by this one so don't argue it ppl, is different from the push for chain lightning is all. Do see this with combat casting could be better than FB or MM in cases with tuning.

RoS teams should not be effected by MoD.
Having RoS 2x the lvl of DM casted fuels the wearers casting ED to a degree.

Poison be best as a wep not a spell, the poison damage would stack slightly with each hit so would act at the end of round like progress GA in a ways. We usually have one tank anyways, so push for that and dual welding 1h. ;) With that said....

Poison Cloud: EO, the cast against all would start very small but build over rounds, death by poison would be delayed 2 rounds after 0 HP. Effect(first round damage) would be 1/200 of lvl and increase by say .3% of that minions actual HP onto that each round. A far more complex equation is needed. Increased by AoFs of course. Decay "light" for when you can't hit every round. Would favor strats that hate stalemates.


Bring Back Cause Fear!

Greyfeld June 18 2008 5:29 AM EDT

Gun > Referring to your combat casting idea, i was considering something like that, but applied slightly differently. I've played an MMO recently where DEX effected casting speed. I think it would be cool to allow DX to allow for multple shots per round. It wouldn't have to be as high as a tank's DX, but if it was like, at least a certain % of the target's DX, you would get 2 (or 3, etc) shots per round.

Applying it this way would discourage sinking all EXP into the DD, because you could ultimately pull out more damage per round by increasing the number of shots you get, rather than increasing how hard you hit.

Ancient Anubis June 18 2008 6:50 AM EDT

can i ask why u removed protection i liked it quite fine

How about a spell like Strength Transfer. Transfers a % of a minions encumbered to minion with least difference between nw and encumbered. eg effect 10 transfers 10% of a minions encumbered from like say a mage with 100mil unused encumbered to a tank with little unused encumbered in this case an extra 10mil encumbered.

Gunny Pew Pew [Red Permanent Assurance] June 18 2008 7:08 AM EDT

1) No way should they be allowed three hits a round.

2) There is enough mess over DX & CTH as is. Find a random sub DX skill for rapid fire mages off putting.

3) Change my 1/3 to 2/3.

Was throwing it out there without a care. Jon would never make it so. Easy to see why we can't have rapid fire mages. An FBer could get some twenty 200k hits in before melee. SFBM could train HP, FB, & CC like a tank would train HP, ST, & DX and not need to BS his SoD or buy exp shots. Only way to hinder the early victory would be unfizzled GA, huge AMF, and/or EC. Not much different than our problems with evasion mages, but tanks shouldn't have a 2nd worry and spend millions on Mageseekers to get around the evasion wall for a stalemate. If limited to melee only, few would use it. The mage BL only cool with CoC and Decay.
Let's forget I brought it up.....

QBRanger June 18 2008 7:56 AM EDT

Excellent changes,

Evasion is now much more powerful, given the top weapons now are all MH's.

First an increased dexterity penalty for using a shield, and now -20% CTH.

Evasion RULES!!!!!

Greyfeld June 18 2008 12:08 PM EDT

Gun, I think you're kinda ignoring the part where you would have to massively deflate your DD to get off those 2-3 shots a round. It's not like you'd be losing 50 damage and getting a whole extra round... I'm talking about losing probably about 40% of your damage for a multiple shot.

In any case, it's not my game to decide choices that get made, it was just an idea i was throwing out, to tack onto yours.

j'bob June 18 2008 1:24 PM EDT

jon, protection seems to have played a small part in my fight list. All I would like to know is, do you have something still in store as a replacement or will it be a while? I don't mind finding somewhere else to sink the xp I had in protection but if there's something new on the horizon I may wait a bit. Thanks.

QBsutekh137 June 18 2008 1:32 PM EDT

How about a concomitant effectiveness drop for PL, TSA, and RoBF?

Damage keeps getting reduced per round (especially for ranged DD), and yet all the threshold-based mechanisms (PL level, TSA regeneration, RoBF flat reduction) stay the same. I'd say the same for GA, but it already has a foil in DM.

For the other things, the only foil is "hit harder".

That's kind of hard when damage keeps being reduced.

It is clear you are aware of this since you did reduce the ToE and MgS effectiveness, but what about the other stuff?

(I assume AMF backlash and FB splash damage already have the 10% reduction built in since they just go off potential damage anyway...)

AdminJonathan June 18 2008 1:33 PM EDT

ToE and MgS were actually a kind of mini-nerf since they're percentage-based

AdminJonathan June 18 2008 1:35 PM EDT

but in general i would like to see battles go a couple more rounds, that is why no drop on the ones you mention sutekh

Mikel June 18 2008 1:37 PM EDT

"Evasion RULES!!!!!"

So does DB's with Junction.

QBsutekh137 June 18 2008 1:38 PM EDT

ToE has a threshold, it is not entirely percentage based, unless something has changed?

So, no change for the other stuff? Not even the RoBF? How exactly am I supposed to get through that flat reduction? And even when I get through, how to overcome that very tiny PL investment and the now-plentiful TSAs afoot?

In lieu of any more changes, can we have a new DD spell then, something like a melee only MM? There is honestly no need for FB and MM in their current incarnation any more, at least not in the top 20 people or so... It's pretty much just become "go CoC or go home", as Conundrum has now shown with the old ToE damage reduction model and now novice's newer, Ablative model.

QBsutekh137 June 18 2008 1:39 PM EDT

Sorry, I replied before seeing your second post. So, can we have a new DD spell? Or are we all just meant to go CoC with damage reduction? I guess we all might as well just go pure damage reduction and just fight it out in melee?

AdminJonathan June 18 2008 1:47 PM EDT

the toe threshold is also a percentage :)

> can we have a new DD spell then

good idea

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 18 2008 1:53 PM EDT

stuff it in your ear Mikel... you just got a +40 to your CTH (going to cost ~100m for me to make up) and you have the gall to bring my mess into this...

AdminShade June 18 2008 3:00 PM EDT

Nice change to list the to-Hit % in post battle stats!

AdminNightStrike June 18 2008 3:14 PM EDT

"> can we have a new DD spell then

good idea
"

Vaynard's lightning!

QBOddBird June 18 2008 3:15 PM EDT

Counterspell: For the dueling mage. Identifies the opponent's largest spell at the beginning of a battle and becomes that spell. As a DD.

Banish: When trained equivalent to the level of an opponent's familiar, that familiar is banished to the dimension from which it was summoned. As an EO. (ouch for my team)

Horn Blast: Blasts a magical horn, deafening and injuring hearing opponents. Equal damage to all minions on an opposing team (low % of level spell), does not affect the non-hearing familiars.

More to come. These are totally un-thought out, and I have no idea what they'd do as far as game balance goes...good thing Jon's such an intelligent man!

Greyfeld June 18 2008 3:38 PM EDT

awww... and here i was hoping for positive responses for my Necromancy idea :P

AdminLamuness June 18 2008 3:55 PM EDT

Skill / Spell / Enchantment Ideas:

These ideas are all double-edged. Why? If you've looked at most suggestions people have made, they're all basically "boosts" with no consequences. So here are ideas that I think seem pretty viable and offer some more randomness to the game:

  1. Skill: Berserker
    Dramatically increases ST (thus dmg) / DX but minion targets all friendly/opponent minions including self. (if you went berserk, you'd probably damage yourself somehow :P )
  2. Enchant Offense: Lichen
    All minions lose hp (constant rate?)
  3. Enchant Defense: Blood Coating
    In exchange for HP, increases one's AC (the exchange will have to be substantial)
  4. Spell: Cyclone
    Randomizes opponent's minion ordering each turn. (Since it's a DD...guess you could add a tiny amount of damage)
The exact mechanics can be figured out by Jon.

QBOddBird June 18 2008 3:59 PM EDT

/me trains a base cyclone for defensive pwnage!

Suqataqus June 18 2008 4:03 PM EDT

Although I like the concept behind Cyclone, I hope to never see something like that implemented. It would eliminate a large amount of the strategy in setting up your team.

Lord Bob June 18 2008 4:31 PM EDT

"I guess we all might as well just go pure damage reduction and just fight it out in melee?"

That's what I've had to do.

Cube June 18 2008 4:33 PM EDT

How about a self DM? Something to combat EOs.

three4thsforsaken June 18 2008 4:36 PM EDT

I don't think EOs need rebalancing, finding a way to combat them would be dangerous IMHO

Lord Bob June 18 2008 4:49 PM EDT

I agree with 3/4ths.

three4thsforsaken June 18 2008 5:40 PM EDT

wait so the ToE nerf that means that the 40% auro effect is 10% less or that the 75% damage cap reduction is 10% less? or both?

Wizard'sFirstRule June 18 2008 6:05 PM EDT

a DD that can work with melee weapon in melee rounds!!
so it does similar damage to a MM, and only fires in melee rounds. but you also hit with melee weapon normally!!!

KittehShinobu June 18 2008 7:18 PM EDT

ED: Enchanted Flint- Raises PTH and Damage of Edged weapons
ED:Purify- a Dm like enchantment that dispels EO's casted on your minions
ED: Mirror Wall- Cuts damage of DD spells in half and deals half to the enemy caster
EO: Enfeeblement- Lowers the PTH of enemy minions
DD: Poison Gust- toxic fumes that drain enemy's hp per round regardless of AC and reductions

^_^ I hope these things'll make ya think, do whatever ya like with em, just some ideas for new spells.

Tyriel [123456789] June 18 2008 7:43 PM EDT

DD - Shocking Grasp (D&D ftw!). Damage reduction INCREASES its damage. Low base damage. Melee only, even with HoC.

EO - Corrupt. Any health gained during battle is negated when you train an amount relative to the health gained (or a portion of it, or whatever).

Skill - Spirit Release. When a minion with this trained takes damage, it stores what it takes up to an amount based on the level. When the minion dies, it releases a portion of the damage as physical damage among all enemy and allied minions. (It's so random, it just might work! :P)

My ideas are baaaaaaaaaaaaaad. :P

Brakke Bres [Ow man] June 18 2008 7:54 PM EDT

How about a skill that allows you to train pure PTH or CTH for that matter.

Something called "Accuracy"

However there is a catch not to make this cry overpowered in a heartbeat, it can be trained up to 1/4 of the minions DEX. So 100 dex means 25 max in skill.
Give it an upgrade curve like UC (probably less) and allow those new items, like the MenC and the GoV, to give it a boost.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] June 18 2008 7:55 PM EDT

ow and for EO a spell called Cause Fear, you know that oldy from CB1, I loved that spell.

Sacredpeanut June 18 2008 7:55 PM EDT

DD Spells

Name: No Idea
Range: 4
Max Targets: 2
Training Cost: 12
Other: Effective DD Level increases by 4% per round. (Initial damage around 20% less than FB)

Name: Channeled Bolt
Range: 3 or 4
MaxTargets: 1
Training Cost: 12
Other: Carnage Blender's first group DD spell (DD level is summed across all minions in the team training the spell). So if one minion has channeled bolt at 50k and another at 100k, the first minion in the opposite team will be hit by one channeled bolt of effective level 150k rather than a missile of 50k followed by one of 100k. AMF and GA damage are returned proportionally to each of the minions/familiars training the spell (eg. the minion with the 100k DD would receive 66% of AMF/GA damage while the minion with 50k DD receives the remaining 33%).

Last Gasp June 18 2008 8:39 PM EDT

"Name: Channeled Bolt"

Modify that with Leadership so that the spells are combined through the minion wearing Amulet of Leadership and are "enhanced" by the + on the AoL.

QBOddBird June 21 2008 11:01 PM EDT

So what will our new spell be? I'm anxious to see!

King June 21 2008 11:20 PM EDT

Random skill/dd/enchant suggestions spawned from boredom

Skill: Feather blow
reduces melee damage inflicted by 10-20% increases pth on a curve twice the size of evasion, caps around +60.

DD: Meteor
range: 2 ( or whatever casts 2 turns later than fb but before melee)
targets first minion with splash damage similar to SoD slightly higher damage than fb.

EO:(Name TBD)
Cuts opponents effective ac by x% dependant on opposing minions ST caps at 30-40%

ED:Disenchant
casts something similar to DM on your own minion reduces your own ED and opponents EO effectiveness on a % similar to amf capping at .6

QBRanger June 21 2008 11:21 PM EDT

Finger of Death anyone?

Thraklight Resonance June 21 2008 11:30 PM EDT

Please, no! I'm afraid that AoD will starting telling "pull my finger" jokes in chat if we bring that back.

Colonel Custard [SeeD] June 22 2008 2:03 AM EDT

Shin: Mirror Wall sounds unnecessary, as we have AMF already.

King: Feather Blow is capped at +60, meaning 60% reduction in damage? This could be the physical-damage equivalent of an MgS, in that case. And, in the typical fashion, it demands EXP (because mages can't spend money, right? :P)

Greyfeld June 22 2008 2:48 AM EDT

"DD - Shocking Grasp (D&D ftw!). Damage reduction INCREASES its damage. Low base damage. Melee only, even with HoC."

That's essentially what my idea was for "rend" under skills. Well, similar anyway. I've always loved the idea of an ability that turns your armor against you XD

Greyfeld June 22 2008 2:52 AM EDT

For the record, considering the serious lack of mage-related gear, I would love to see mages able to take two DD abilities... one from the current list, then a "utility" spell from a second list... giving them an edge of utility, instead of just raw firepower.

King June 22 2008 8:42 AM EDT

Colonel it's your own damage that is reduced eg. I hit you with my VB I only do 90-80% of my regular damage for a pth bonus

Wizard'sFirstRule June 22 2008 11:16 AM EDT

EO and ED are the utility spell. unless you mean a new "skill" slot that are trained to a % of the DD.

Dark Dreky June 22 2008 11:24 AM EDT

Chill Touch (D&D, ah yes) - Less damage but DX and ST draining? Maybe even skill draining? Take your pic.

Greyfeld June 22 2008 6:11 PM EDT

"EO and ED are the utility spell. unless you mean a new "skill" slot that are trained to a % of the DD. "

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Like each primary DD spell can be put in its own "damage type" category. Then once you decide that's the element your mage is going to use, you get the opportunity to pick up a secondary "utility" spell that fits into that same element. The utility spell wouldn't do any damage, it would just bring more utility to the team.

Example:

Magic Missile would be considered an Arcane spell. Since you've chosen Arcane, you get the choice of one of 3 utility spells. Spell 1 is called Blink, giving the mage, say, a 10% chance to teleport himself out of harms way each round (basically, the spell/attack misses). Spell 2 is called Amplified Power, giving the caster X% chance each round to launch a magic missile that does double damage. Spell 3 is called Mage Shield, that has a chance to, maybe, make the mage cast a shield of magic around his team, nullifying all damage for that turn, but casting no Magic Missile that turn.

This is just an example, but I think it gives you an idea of what i mean by "bringing more utility to the mage table."

QBOddBird June 23 2008 1:17 AM EDT

"Reduced ToE effect by 10% "

Was this a reduction to the Tattoo of Endurance specifically, or the Endurance effect itself? I'm curious as to whether this was an indirect mini-nerf to the JKF.

lostling June 23 2008 1:26 AM EDT

chain lightning
dealts highest damage to the 1st minion in line and reduces as it moves along
100% 50% 25% 12% 6%

if opponent team has lesser then 4 minions the last minion of your team gets a feedback damage of (missing minions x 6)%

example opponent's team has 1 minion
(3x6)% = 18% feedback damage

King June 23 2008 9:22 PM EDT

I'm not sure how many people still care about the skill suggestions but my list goes on >_>

Skill: Weapon Finesse
Damage inflicted by weapons is calculated with the DX stat instead of ST. Needs to be trained to 1/3rd DX level to avoid pure DX tank abuse. Not usable with 2h weapons.

Skill: Extend Spell
Inflicts residual damage the Next turn for FB and CoC showing up like RoBF damage(so and so burns from whatever) trains like GA or PL maximum effect 15% damage taken.

example FB hits a minion in round one for 1m damage with extend spell skill trained to 1m, Round two the minion takes 150k residual damage.

D&D ftw there are so many things to rip off and twist just watch out for the ghost of Gary Gygax and his +3 mace.

Also, Gygax should be added to the dictionary.
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