Why do people save up XP instead of training ASAP? (in General)
September 23 2008 6:48 PM EDT
The rewards multipliers, BA purchase costs and BA regen bracket depends on VPR not MPR as far as I know, so there's no reason NOT to train it all, you already get all the benefits and drawbacks wether you have it all trained or saved up.
You also get a better chance of beating new people, and less chance of some people beating you with more XP trained up instead of "just left out there".
The only reason I can even remotely think of would be that you have a lower PR and therefore a slightly higher challenge bonus... but then again, training up that XP and beating people higher up in score/PR would more than compensate for that increase in your own PR.
So why would anybody ever want to save up millions of XP ?
Is it lazyness or a mistaken belief saving up XP helps you somehow ?
one word well actually two, challenge bonus.
1) More satisfying to train in a chunk
2) Training exp during a changemonth could result in lost exp if your strategy changes soon
3) If you're not sure what to train, you don't want to risk having to untrain later to get the exp back
September 23 2008 6:49 PM EDT
According to "Stryfe's Strategy" in the wiki, the rewards are based off "Your PR" versus "Their Score".
September 23 2008 6:52 PM EDT
thats totally wrong i'm fighting someone who has a score around 1million but only has 8k mpr and power. I'm getting an 100 percent challenge bonus?? So really it is score i think.
your VPR... not PR.
the benefit of not training to pr is to reduce the effect of AC NW.
It also allows you plan who you'll beat next... that being said I almost always train unless I intend to retrain something later.
September 23 2008 6:52 PM EDT
September 23 2008 6:56 PM EDT
So it is NOT VPR? It's regular PR that affects rewards?
September 23 2008 6:58 PM EDT
No its your score versus there power. thats the main factor.
September 23 2008 6:58 PM EDT
Challenge bonus couldn't possibly be based on ONLY your VPR, as that would mean increasing PR above MPR when MPR is aprox equal to VPR wouldn't matter... so I can only conclude challenge bonus is only based on PR (or, at worst, on MPR * total NW weight penalty + VPR).
Yeah, VPR comes into play, but only in the hidden reward multiplier sections...
if it concerns about challenge bonus yes, VPR is for calculating forge effectiveness and the hidden 'base' rewards you're getting.
A 1mil mpr character, with all its stats untrained will have 1 mpr, but it will still forge as well as a 1mil mpr.
September 23 2008 7:01 PM EDT
"No its your score versus there power. thats the main factor. "
*sigh* from the "Wiki - battle rewards " link above:
* the most important factor you can control in Battle Rewards is your Power (PR) versus their Score. The exact bonus that you receive for fighting a particular opponent is called the Challenge Bonus (displayed in the post-battle stats), and maxes out at +100% when you fight opponents with a score double or higher compared to your PR
if you are a member in one of the Standard Clans, you can also gain a
* Clan Bonus (displayed in post-battle stats). The maximum value is +15% for the best scoring clan and decreases the lower in score your clan is. Only the top 25% clans with positive clan points receive bonuses
* fighting opponents with a higher Power (PR), as it also yields increased rewards. The exact amount/formula for the bonus is unknown, since this bonus is not displayed anywhere
* there is a bonus for fighting opponents that are members of a standard clan when you are a member of a standard clan yourself. The bonus is also hidden, but we know it's +5%
* two separate random factors are also applied to both CB$ and XP rewards each battle, to further mask the exact rewards
* new users and new characters receive a huge bonus during their first 6 months (new characters only receive an XP bonus, no CB$ bonus). The bonus value is determined at character creation and always displayed in the post-battle stats. The amount of that bonus is calculated from the highest Minion Power in the game at that time
* rewards are also increasing the higher in Virtual Power your team is. This exact bonus value is also hidden, but you can determine roughly how high it is by looking at your Battle Allocation purchase price, as it is proportional to that (the NUB/NCB is also included in BA purchase price, so you have to adjust for that too if present)
September 23 2008 7:05 PM EDT
Besides, like I said in the original post...
"The only reason I can even remotely think of would be that you have a lower PR and therefore a slightly higher challenge bonus... but then again, training up that XP and beating people higher up in score/PR would more than compensate for that increase in your own PR."
The only reason you wouldn't want to train your XP would be if you're so high up the PR ladded that training that XP up will not gain you any new opponents and would not make any current attackers fail their attacks (especially important if in a clan trying to earn a bonus).
September 23 2008 7:24 PM EDT
Like Novice said, one of the main reasons people save experience is because of changemonth. Another reason, also like nov said, is that people are planning a retrain in the future and don't want to keep putting in xp into a stat that would lose 5% on untrain. Challenge bonus is affected by your VPR so not training doesn't affect this. Also, your base rewards are based on your opponents PR so not training doesn't hurt you either, other than the fact that you might not beat higher opponents. I have upper of 12M exp saved, and all these apply to me.
Also worth noting is that many like to hold exp in order to keep their MPR at a nice number. Mainly 2 million or 3 million, and yes I'm serious.
Another big reason is as people reach the top scores they realize that training a little bit at a time won't change anything, so the save up until they are very sure what will add a potential target since they're not many left.
"Another big reason is as people reach the top scores they realize that training a little bit at a time won't change anything, so the save up until they are very sure what will add a potential target since they're not many left."
i think this is correct, but i also think it is flawed logic. if you wait until you can absolutely beat them to train a chunk that will add someone to your fight list. however, during that time you were saving xp, they were likely beating you. if you are in a clan, training the xp as you received it may make it to where they draw or lose occasionally and thus remove you from their list, which would probably make your clan bonus higher.
September 23 2008 8:17 PM EDT
i train everyday :P
Nothing wrong with that. And I guess it matters :P
September 23 2008 8:39 PM EDT
ok. For sick one that seems to sigh because nobody is reading his comment about the wiki. Do you understand the wiki is made by the peole of the game and not from the creator of the game. Look at the changes made and who made them... They aren't from Jon. Most of the info in the wiki is correct and can be counted on but some things are as close to correct as people that have tested can provide. Jon has not made all equations in the game public and therefor not everything in the wiki is as true as people think. I notice when I train every day my challenge bonus changes for the lower faster than if I save my exp for when it will actually help me. Up higher in mpr it takes more than 1 run thru your ba to get enough xp to actually help vs other people. It can take weeks and months of training a stat to actually help.
Oh and other reasons for saving ba is when maybe you are going to make some crazy change and want it to go for a full effect and cause people to wonder why they can't beat you anymore. I personally never save it up but have over the last few days because I wanted to get enough to make an impact and change my fight list instead of just training every run thru ba and not really seeing a difference. Thanks.
September 23 2008 9:01 PM EDT
I was testing challenge bonuses today and my challenge bonus actually DROPPED by a couple of percentage points when I untrained a chunk of XP and increased again when I retrained it.
September 23 2008 9:47 PM EDT
If it doesn't make a difference in who you beat, there's no reason to train either.
September 24 2008 10:28 AM EDT
Yesterday I was fighting and I could beat "Shadow Lord" with no sweat. About 15 minutes later from my 1st BA of that set, he jumped about 100k MPR (from untrained EXP because he has 1 minion still) and then I couldn't touch him. However, I had been farming him consistently before this mpr jump, which in turn actually lowers his bonuses. I had been fighting him, lowering his clan score, therefore lowering his whole clan's bonus. Sure, now he can beat me, but if he just trained each day as opposed to holding the xp, I never would have been able to farm him, keeping his clan scores higher.
I rarely train. If I am still beating my opponents, why bother? Keep the XP in reserve so that when someone else changes a strategy, you have room to adapt. Also, when you want to add another person to your fight list, you will actually be able to.
September 24 2008 12:32 PM EDT
not training for long periods can have adverse effects on your challenge bonus....
i remember when i trained my challenge bonus went up
September 24 2008 1:08 PM EDT
Tells me it's VPR, not PR.
The link to fighting rewards are saying it is PR, not VPR.
I think we need an absolute authoritative answer
September 24 2008 1:33 PM EDT
The thing is untrained experience is not multiplied by armor PR weight, so if you have some massive DBs on or such, not training gets you a slightly higher challenge bonus.
September 24 2008 4:16 PM EDT
Phaete, you are getting confused, VPR affects challenge bonus, PR of you opponents affect your base rewards, tell me if this helps you. :)
actually AG... Jon seemed to correct the notion about opponents PR effecting base rewards...
The person who did the original testing seemed to have done a really good job, but I think we need to find a high PR low score opponent to test if he or Jon was the one who was right.
September 24 2008 5:12 PM EDT
Ok nov, I was just going off what I have personally experienced. If you want to wait for about 2 weeks, I will be untraining about 80% of my exp, and my score will be tiny so you can test on me before I fight if you wish, since you don't have to worry about the negative bonus.
September 24 2008 5:22 PM EDT
I don't train because I don't need to. *shrug*. The people who beat me will never get touched by me since I can't deal enough damage to get through PL. And the people I beat, in many cases because of my DM, I beat easily. So there's not need to train, it's not like I'm close to beating someone new.
Just FYI, I haven't added to my FB nor DM in...gosh, something like a year? I'm training a little more often these days since I am building a bit of AS and GA, but otherwise there isn't a whole lot of point to it...
September 29 2008 11:50 PM EDT
Just to bring up an old topic - what I've noticed from not training is that my cost for BA has not risen. Granted, this would be different if you are using a regular tattoo, but I'm using an RoE.
September 29 2008 11:52 PM EDT
If I remember right BA costs are adjusted at cache flush, did you save past then?
September 29 2008 11:53 PM EDT
Oh, I have only been saving recently. We'll see!
September 30 2008 12:16 AM EDT
The BA cost only goes up in "brackets", not constantly.
Past a certain MPR, you need far more than a day's worth of XP to make a difference.
September 30 2008 12:20 AM EDT
Oh ok. Darn, I thought I found a glitch to the system! =P
September 30 2008 12:22 AM EDT
I've been at $1,035 per BA for a long, long time myself, for instance.
Also, LA/FTW claims his BA cost is under 1400 if I remember correctly, and he's almost double my MPR.
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