Help forgers Eliminate the blacksmith (in General)


Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] February 17 2009 6:23 PM EST

As title says. I also suppose we would need to make all elven gear forgeable again. I know this may be a farfetched idea, but maybe not in some respects let me know what you think =).

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] February 17 2009 7:13 PM EST

i suggested this over 2 years ago, and look where we've gotten to, nowhere, =(

Lord Bob February 17 2009 7:14 PM EST

Why would we want to eliminate the blacksmith?

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] February 17 2009 7:16 PM EST

So forgers get a decent compensation for not getting exp means:

More money per job
Still no experience

Lord Bob February 17 2009 7:18 PM EST

I know exactly why he would want to eliminate the blacksmith. My question stands.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] February 17 2009 7:20 PM EST

/me has an idea:

If we were to see this idea actually implemented:

Make it so if people still want us to forge there stuff in mass quantities ('x') there could be an option in the forge window (2x, 3x, 4x, 5x forge efficiency) and forge fees would increase accordingly, hence costing more from the person paying the forger.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] February 17 2009 7:21 PM EST

Ok, if you put it that way, Im a forger, I want all standard fighters to lose their experience gains per fight. Either that or, have little to no money gains, maybe enough to heal, but that's it. We don't get exp, why should you get money?

Lord Bob February 17 2009 7:22 PM EST

...and sparing you the BA.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] February 17 2009 7:25 PM EST

umm...?

Lord Bob February 17 2009 7:28 PM EST

"We don't get exp, why should you get money?"

1. It's the only way cash is generated in this game to begin with. Economic growth would cease altogether. In fact, cash would vanish at an alarming rate.
2. You would take a hit too. Less cash means we pay you less.
3. Putting fighters at the absolute mercy of forgers for their NW is the dumbest idea ever.
4. It's called Carnage Blender, not Forging Blender. The core of the entire game is fighting.

That said, I do think forgers need a boost of some sort. Scrapping another feature of the game, however, is an incredibly poor non-solution.

Lord Bob February 17 2009 7:31 PM EST

"umm...?"

How is this difficult? If you're forging at 2x forging efficiency, you're getting twice as much for the BA invested. More at your proposed 3x, 4x, 5x, etc.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] February 17 2009 7:47 PM EST

i guess you missed the part where i said we pay forge fees at that 2x, 3x, 4x, ... more as well?

Lord Bob February 17 2009 7:52 PM EST

Forge fees are different than BA. If you're including that, then yeah, I'd be all for it.

I know it's been shot down before, but a forging skill would also be rather good.

Sickone February 17 2009 7:59 PM EST

Nah, just:
* make all items forgeable
* put forge fees to ZERO for common items
* put forge fees to 15% for rare items
* put forge fees to 30% for elven items
* increase blacksmith fees to 150% of network increase

BarCap February 17 2009 8:25 PM EST

what about the unforgeables that aren't elven gear, would they be 30% as well?

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] February 17 2009 8:34 PM EST

Unionize and standardize fee's at 80%, petition to make it easier to loan items inside an econ clan to make group forging possible.

That's the way to defeat the blacksmith.

Sickone February 17 2009 9:34 PM EST

"what about the unforgeables that aren't elven gear, would they be 30% as well? "

You could as well have different fees for each individual item, and not necessarily just 0%, 15% or 30%... anything up to disenchant value would be ok.
And the BS fees don't need to be fixed 150%, they can be different for each item too, anywhere from just the standard 100% (on stuff that has 0% forge fees) up to even 200% for stuff you want to be usually (or almost always) forged rather than blacksmithed.

Wizard'sFirstRule February 17 2009 10:13 PM EST

actually, no. taking away cash gain per battle wouldn't cease economic activity. Money would still flow into the game via disenchant. (although it would be much, much slower, but at least it will be proportional [roughly] to the number of active player as well)

deifeln February 17 2009 10:17 PM EST

Disenchant would not put a DROP of cash into the game when compared with the amount of cash that fighting brings in.

QBOddBird February 17 2009 10:37 PM EST

Indeed...the differing rates of cash flow are too great to really count that in. It's sort of like saying "if I lose my job, it'll be okay, 'cuz look how many pennies I pick up when I'm out walking!"

QBRanger February 17 2009 11:48 PM EST

And what about tanks needing their x up 1k at a time to keep up?

Do they go weaponless or try to find a comparable weapon during the forging?

Ernest-Scribbler February 17 2009 11:51 PM EST

Someone may have already said this but, If there was no blacksmith the forgers could make things very very lucrative for themselves. newer players would not be able to improve there gear AND improve there char forcing them to pay possibly hiked up forging fees. The blacksmith gives a rate to compare the fees against, without this, well as i said very very lucrative. Not that many people want to sit there and forge, those who do would do a little to well.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] February 18 2009 7:11 AM EST

Forging efficiency *cough* raise it *cough*!

Brakke Bres [Ow man] February 18 2009 7:28 AM EST

BTW Ranger, if a tank all of a sudden needs 1k on their weapon, then they haven't been paying attention in a significant time span.

AdminShade February 18 2009 7:52 AM EST

Henk, he doesn't mean it as an all of a sudden but as a continuous issue.

lostling February 18 2009 10:58 AM EST

theres a reason this game is called carnage blender instead of forging blender =x not that i disagree or agree... just pointing this out

QBRanger February 18 2009 11:25 AM EST

One way to help forgers is to find a way they can forge items that other characters equip.

That way characters will not be without their items while they are being forged.

Wasp [Demon Forging] February 18 2009 11:45 AM EST

An easy fix would be to just raise the forging efficiency. Some items are as low as 0.6. You can't forge these items for other people and expect to make money from it. Maybe make all items efficiency 1. Or around that. Or add .2 to every items efficiency then forgers will get a bit more.

This said, I don't think Jon implemented forging as a way to earn money.

But if you're trying to play at the top then you can't afford to waste BA on forging. So what he's trying to create is nullified :s

QBRanger February 18 2009 12:12 PM EST

And at the top you cannot afford to be without your high level gear for weeks at a time to get it forged.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] February 18 2009 3:34 PM EST

For all you people who say it's called carnage blender and not forge blender are dumb. Who cares what the name of the game is? Tic-Tac-Toe has nothing to do with Tic-Tacs or Toes, Noughts and Crosses is a perfect name for it (which was it's original name on the computer, where it was rumored to be one of the first computer video games). But you only hear it called Tic-Tac-Toe, why? WHO KNOWS!

But fine with me, if nothing can come to help us forgers better compete with fighters, get rid of forging all together, let's see how much BSing you guys do before complaining about no more forging. I think i see it already, "Forging was part of the game, why was it gotten rid of?!?!111" This sound familiar? OH YEA, "Camping was part of the game, why did Jon get rid of it?!?!111" Puhlease people. You know forging is/has been/will be part of the game, so give us a break and try to help us out, you don't see us asking Jon to Nerf the RoS because it's too powerful, why are you doing it to us here? I really don't understand.

/rant, more will come I'm sure.

BarCap February 18 2009 3:36 PM EST

I have answers to most of those questions but I'm not sure if you're really asking for them.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] February 18 2009 4:15 PM EST

What workaround can you possibly propose that would eliminate everyone waiting for months to get their stuff forged? I mean, there's already very few forgers. And there's ALREADY lines.

Multiple BA sets without the ability to fight until you don't have loaned items to give you multiple BA sets. When a fighter sends their item to be forged, underneath where it asks you how long the loan will be for is radio buttons asking if the loan is for fighting or forging. You can only forge loaned items with extra BA sets. Only way you can forge your own items is to use your original BA set of 160, so you can't gain by using multiple BA sets to forge your own stuff. For every loaned item, you get one more set of BA to fill to 160.

And what about items that have horrific forge cycles? Like Corns?

Have options to choose 2x-5x forge efficiency at the same price, 2x-5x, increase.

Goodfish February 18 2009 4:18 PM EST

Speaking of the forge, let's get rid of it. It's a stupid system that doesn't allow for the volume of cash that needs to be deleted from the game to be deleted. Short-sighted people (read: not me) think of it as an easy way to upgrade their stuff at a reduced price, but ultimately it hurts the entire game.

The forge sucks. I don't know why people whine about it. It's completely counter-productive.

I wish I could lock threads, man. Maybe I'm just in a really terrible mood.

QBOddBird February 18 2009 4:20 PM EST

smallpau1, the community would be more receptive if you offered solutions to the problems pointed out rather than ranting.

Neither I nor anyone else is impressed or whatever you were trying to accomplish with that rant...however, solutions and improvements to your idea could help sway attitudes.


For example, as Ranger said: what if an item that is necessary to a player's strategy needs to be increased? The player with a MHx3000 can't fight without it, and a base weapon is simply unacceptable. Do you have a solution or workaround?

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] February 18 2009 4:24 PM EST

I am pretty much the only one in this thread trying to figure out ways to help us, don't ask me why fighters (who never forged a day in their CB life) are in here naysaying our ways. And i guess you clicked new reply before i posted that last post?

Goodfish February 18 2009 4:28 PM EST

If somebody can give me a legitimate argument for why the forge is a good idea in the first place, I might be more receptive to ideas about how to make it "better".

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] February 18 2009 4:33 PM EST

Why is using a MH better than using a BoNE, seriously, come on. It's whatever one chooses to do, what yo enjoy/like, isn't going to be what someone else likes.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] February 18 2009 4:35 PM EST

i have tried to find the post where jon stated that he never meant for forging to be an alternate play style. i think that is the way he put it, but unsure until it can be located.

with that being said, it is much like the disposable state of teams in the game. unless jon has changed his mind then it is all just wishful thinking. i do wish ya luck though!

BluBBen February 18 2009 4:37 PM EST

I know from inside information that Jon actually wants forging to be a way of playing, but he is yet to come up with a good solution for this.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] February 18 2009 4:40 PM EST

i trust jon's former posts more than the elusive "inside information". if jon has changed his mind he can certainly state so in the forums, otherwise we have to go on what he has stated in the past. now if i could just find that darned post!

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] February 18 2009 4:42 PM EST

He made Economic clans, you dont think he meant for forging to be part of the game? I remember him making that statement too dudemus, but why would he introduce eco clans? I know it wasn't with the loan sharks in mind.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] February 18 2009 4:52 PM EST

oh, i never said he didn't want it as part of the game and that is far from what he did state which was an alternate play style. i would take that to mean that he never planned for that to be all that someone did within the game. not that you cannot play that way if it floats your boat but expecting changes to be made to the system to make it more fulfilling as a play style when jon doesn't view it that way will only lead to disappointment.

Goodfish February 18 2009 4:58 PM EST

Why is using a MH better than using a BoNE, seriously, come on. It's whatever one chooses to do, what yo enjoy/like, isn't going to be what someone else likes.

To me, this argument seems more like "Why is using a MH better than using a Dagger?" You aren't supposed to use a Dagger. I feel similarly about forging.

And if fighting isn't what you enjoy, then there are plenty of other games where forging/crafting/item creation is integral. CB is all carnage, all the time. None of this pansy forging stuff! ;)

Wasp [Demon Forging] February 18 2009 5:07 PM EST


Antifish 4:28 PM EST
If somebody can give me a legitimate argument for why the forge is a good idea in the first place, I might be more receptive to ideas about how to make it "better".

Because it saves money. It keeps money flowing through the economy (Both good and bad lol). Ask the person, who wants his gear forged at 65%, why he thinks the forge is a good idea.

Forgers offer a good service. Problem is they are being held back. To be honest I'm not sure of a way around this other then allowing a forger to work on someone's gear without having to have it in their own inventory :S
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