Untrain/retrain score adjustment bugged (in General)

Sickone February 21 2009 5:05 AM EST

Just wanted to let you know, if you untrain a good deal of your XP and train it back up, you end up with FAR LESS score as you started with, much lower than the small "XP fee" could possibly account for.

Think "around 2.5 mil MPR with aprox 4.4 mil score, untrain about half XP, retrain it all, end up at 3.2 mil score".
Of course, score is easily regained by attacking new targets, but the score "pool" gets drained by a good amount in a single move.

I'm guessing there's a couple of kinks to iron out there...

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] February 21 2009 5:08 AM EST

I had assumed it was like that on purpose

Sickone February 21 2009 5:10 AM EST


Sickone February 21 2009 5:13 AM EST

"will now be scaled like MPR when training -- if you untrain half your MPR you will lose half your score. If you double your MPR you will double your score."

In other words, I expect to see a drop in score between aproximately 2% at best and aproximately 5% at worst, depending what you untrain (mostly 98% or mostly 95% back stats).
Observed score drop however was far, far larger.
Therefore, bug.

AdminShade February 21 2009 6:30 AM EST

in other words, don't untrain if you don't need to. Your score should only rise again when fighting after the retrain so why bother?

Sickone February 21 2009 7:40 AM EST


The score is (as per Jon's words) supposed to rise back to nearly the same levels if you untrain, then retrain.
The only score loss is supposed to be proportional to the MPR loss which comes from the slight XP loss when untraining.
Again, like I said, this means "bug".

As for the reason why that's a bad thing (as if the fact it's a bug is not good enough to call it a bad thing), it's score out of the system at the higher levels for absolutely no good reason whatsoever.
Everybody involved gets some degree of score loss in the long run, and it cascades both upwards and downwards, everybody gets slightly lower bonuses.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] February 21 2009 11:50 AM EST

added to "known issues" wiki page as a bug, i guess we will see.

Cube February 22 2009 1:23 AM EST

You forgot that there was a fix later due to people obtaining massive scores.

Sickone February 24 2009 5:41 PM EST

Well, yeah, but that fix apparently broke something else...

AdminTal Destra February 24 2009 6:04 PM EST

lol like my 101m score that i got on accident, and yes i have screenshots to prove it.

three4thsforsaken February 24 2009 6:25 PM EST

safe to say that retraining should hurt your score to prevent abuse.

QBOddBird February 24 2009 6:30 PM EST

I disagree, retraining is a periodic necessity in competitive areas of the game and to adjust to big changes.

The penalty to prevent abuse is already inherent in the EXP loss that comes with untraining; why suck score out of a system that already doesn't produce enough?

Sickone February 24 2009 8:05 PM EST

Like I already said in the original changelog thread, soft-top-capping the score to something like 2x MPR or even 2xPR would have been enough to prevent any significant abuse of the system while not "breaking" anything of significance, and also keeping the coding to a minimum.

No idea how that potential abuse was handled, but it was handled... in a not quite fortunate manner.
If the way it was handled would have been non-damaging, we wouldn't HAVE this thread at all, now would we ?

winner winner February 24 2009 8:36 PM EST

It was handled in a non-damaging way, if you want very close to your original score then just train 1/10 of your exp at a time.

Sickone February 25 2009 9:35 AM EST

If the cap is max 10% score gain, then what's stopping anybody else from doing the same on an insane score:power ratio character ?
In other words, problem not solved at all, just masked.
No, there should have simply been a softcap to 2x PR after XP train... and that's it... problem both solved (a reasonable max score due to training) and negative side-effects (the reason for this thread) averted.
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