Single Minion: Strat Me! (in General)

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] April 27 2009 8:07 PM EDT

Im Starting my First NCB this coming Saturday. I have been debating a lot of different things as far as my Strat is concerned. So I would Like to ask the Community what do you think?

HP/DEX/STR/DM Trained Evenly, Archery 1/5 of Str of course

Armor: HoC, BG's, DB's, BoM, 2008 CB T-Shirt, HF, & AoJ

Weapons: VB, MSKer

What would you change? What would this be weak to? How can I fix it?

I have a number of ideas but I just want to have my thoughts confirmed. Thanks for looking :)

Untouchable April 27 2009 8:12 PM EDT

these sort of Strats usually turn out well. I dont know too much about them personally, just watch out for the blasted GA teams.

QBOddBird April 27 2009 8:16 PM EDT

dump the VB, go for the BoNE, it will work better against every single wall and ToE you go against

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] April 27 2009 8:19 PM EDT

Actually, unless you get to round 10 or 11, the ELS is better than the BoNE, you also don't have the wasted DX that way too.

QBOddBird April 27 2009 8:20 PM EDT

what do you mean, damage-wise? BoNE is _always_ hands down tons more damage than the does 2handedness make it less useful for 10-11 rounds?

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] April 27 2009 8:23 PM EDT

"what do you mean, damage-wise? BoNE is _always_ hands down tons more damage than the ELS"

Yes damage wise, because 2h weapons don't hit in round 7, so ELS is more damage up until a certain round.

QBRanger April 27 2009 8:23 PM EDT

I think DM is very overrated in the early parts of the game.

In fact my character only has 25k learned DM.

I would go HP 2 : Str 1: Dex 1

GA is a pain, but avoid these characters.

I really dislike the MSB for numerous reasons, and would say go ELB.

No melee weapon, keep your missile weapon as high as ENC allows.

Untouchable April 27 2009 8:24 PM EDT


Zenai [Ministry of Pain] April 27 2009 8:28 PM EDT

What about a Bone for Melee, a SoD for Ranged, a ToA for Tat, TG's or EG's instead?

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] April 27 2009 8:28 PM EDT

err BoTH*

QBOddBird April 27 2009 8:44 PM EDT

Arty - not if the BoNE hits 2x as hard as the ELS.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] April 27 2009 8:47 PM EDT

It doesn't though, even if it would just tie at round 8 and out damage at round 9. If it does around 50% more damage it would tie at 9, but I still think it's lower than this, I think it's some where around 35% which would make it tie around round 10, and out damage around round 11, which is what I said.

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] April 27 2009 9:23 PM EDT

ok and Let's say I wanted to combat HP Loss if even a little that would mean a BoTH or a MH Which would you use?

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] April 27 2009 9:32 PM EDT

Umm not sure, I haven't ran statistics on those, but prolly BoTH would be your best bet.

QBOddBird April 27 2009 9:54 PM EDT

Both have lower damage than their base shows.

BoTH is a little stronger than a VB, MH is a little stronger than an ELS.

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] April 27 2009 10:12 PM EDT

Hmm ok So Toss up as far as Damage versus Penalty is what is being shot at here. Ill keep that in mind. What about the BG's? Should these be the be all or is there a better Choice like the TG's for the Str or the EG's for the Dx?

QBRanger April 27 2009 10:14 PM EDT

BG if your using a missile weapon as a major damage source, esp if your using a HF junctioned.

TG if your melee.

HG if your UC with a JKF.

NSC if your DD familiar.

EG is not even an option.

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] April 27 2009 10:47 PM EDT

I know the basics Im looking for the underlying factors like the penalties and the recuperation for said penalties. EG's could very well be a boon in a situation like this, so would the TG's for that matter. Penalties can be combated with the boost to the Dex from the EG's which is one of the penalties from Armor - Dx. The TG's could be a big boon as well considering that if my Tat is Bigger than my char can handle it can open it up more so it can do more damage. Last but not least remember that there are Bonuses for everything as well as Penalties. The Boost from Dex will not only help my percentages for CTH/PTH but boost my HF PTH/CTH considering the AoJ. Same goes for the TG's as they raise STR adding to my Damage in two ways. Allowing my Max Tat to open wider allowing it to hit harder as well as boosting the HF Str allowing once again to hit harder.

Tyriel [123456789] April 27 2009 11:16 PM EDT

Firstly, nothing affects Max Tattoo Level except MPR. Items will not increase it in any way. Seems like you're a bit confused about that.

Secondly, this is the point Ranger is trying to get at:

BG, HG, NSC, and in a few cases TG (when you absolutely *need* the extra STR to increase your ENC limit) will BY FAR provide more power than EG on a single minion.

BG will boost your damage by upwards of 30%, which is equivalent to essentially doubling your weapon X with a good pair. That saves LOTS of XP in STR and NW in your ranged weapon.

HG give a flat boost to UC (as well as a little boost to STR), which is TREMENDOUS at high UC levels, doubly so when junctioned to a JKF as well.

The flat AMF reduction of NSC is amazing for CoC and the IF, whose greatest enemies are GA and AMF. Not as good for the other DD spells, but still great.

EG... well, they boost your skill. Aside from the fact that you likely won't have as much XP in DX and Skill as would be necessary to compete with the bonuses of the above gloves, EG don't increase ENC, boost your attack damage, etc. I wouldn't recommend EG unless your training a large Evasion as a single minion.

Other than that, decide whether you want to end battles in melee or ranged. If you decide for ranged, get either a HF or ToA and the other gears, and pump up a huge ranged weapon.

If you want to target mages, train a large DM (most mages are either single minion (in which case you *should* be able to beat them as an archer) or multi-minion with plenty of DEs) and get that MsK big. If you want to fight *only* mages, you can get away with having very small DX, too, allowing more room for HP, DM, etc.

I don't really have much advice to offer other than that. :)

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] April 27 2009 11:27 PM EDT

Actually I wasn't confused(I read the Wiki long before this post :D) I intentionally goofed to make someone post/explain a little better than a tag and a few words. I wanted opinions and it seems as if the only way to get a good discussion going is to mess up. Thankyou for explaining things and giving your opinion Tyriel;)

As in the Last Line of my first post:

What would you change? What would this be weak to? How can I fix it?

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] April 27 2009 11:31 PM EDT

I would go no VB and Elbow.

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] April 27 2009 11:38 PM EDT

So do you think a BoTH and a ELB would be better then? I wondered about a Ax/Exbow as well considering that at the higher levels it is the "In-Thing" to use, should I have one of these on "Retainer" so to speak in these kind of cases?

I know I'll just be starting out but I am looking for application at higher levels. There is no use starting one way just to end up having to untrain or scrap a useless NCB because it doesn't work at the higher levels.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] April 27 2009 11:44 PM EDT

"So do you think a BoTH and a ELB would be better then?"

Well me personally would just go all out with the ELB.

Tyriel [123456789] April 27 2009 11:46 PM EDT

It depends on what kind of niche you want to fill.

Anti-tank, go higher DX and ExBow (maybe AxBow), and melee weapon of your choice. MoD, MH, BoTH, BoNE, it wouldn't make *too* much of a difference. Tattoo could be a ToA, HF... almost anything, really. XD If you can neutralize the enemy tank, it doesn't matter so much what tattoo you have. If you're short on money, a ToA is a great money-saver on PTH.

Anti-mage, go MsK, low DX, and plenty of DM if you want to go against multi-minion mages. Put that DM into HP if you only care about beating SFBM and other similar mages. RoBF would be good here, to reduce magical damage. HF, ToA are always options.

More general, I'd say go ELB, train fairly evenly in ST, DX, HP, needed Archery, and either HF or ToA. Melee weapon is up to you, but a MH/BoTH/nothing is always a good option. :)

For tattoos, if you don't have much money for a huge weapon, get a ToA and keep the PTH on your weapon at 0, and pump up the X. The ToA can provide a decent amount of PTH basically for free.

Really, it's all about how *you* want to play it. :)

Aera Cura April 27 2009 11:55 PM EDT

That strat sounds really familiar ^.^, I'm not really sure what ranger's beef with the mageseeker is, I used too use an ELB and sure it dished out quite a bit more damage, but it wasnt aimed at the damage dealer. Since then i have switched too a mageseeker and found it too be much more succesful (If you can afford the net worth), I"ve got a melee weapon equiped also it is a Bone and has about 120 million net worth into it. Its not doing a whole bunch, although i suppose its doing its goo job at clean up =), whatever i dont kill in ranged it seems too take care of.

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] April 28 2009 12:20 AM EDT

"More general, I'd say go ELB, train fairly evenly in ST, DX, HP, needed Archery, and either HF or ToA. Melee weapon is up to you, but a MH/BoTH/nothing is always a good option."

General is the Application I was wanting to use. My Idea is this my Hal is Junctioned so it gets pretty much everything I've got. With the DB's I lower the enemy plus to hit so I'm buying some time. With the HoC I get an Extra Round of Ranged, with the BG's I have more Damage in Ranged so a complementary set right there for Overall Ranged Damage. With the BoM I get more Str making my Enc larger and my Damage higher as well as adding to my much needed AC and boosting to my items through now available upgrade levels. Since my Hal has a ELB I'll Let it do it's thing for the General Damage while my Minion Uses a MSKer for those pesky Mages and my VB for those Pesky Tanks since it Ignores 50% of effective AC and Endurance. My DM would help take Care of those Pesky Enchanters.

What I'm looking at here is that because of the VB I'm doing less overall Melee damage same goes for the MSKer for the Ranged. Since I have low AC with this armor set I'm vulnerable to taking damage that way. If my DM is not high enough I'll get owned quickly by Enchanters. If I fight another Archer it'll be a battle of who has the best Ranged Weapon and has the most HP. So there are a few holes that need to be covered somehow, but, I'm kinda stuck on this.

Wow Scion you are right almost exactly the As far as the BoNE I was looking at the penalties for having a 2H weapon with a Shield. Would the BoTH be a good replacement in that respect since it has the life leeching effect or is straight damage more needed in this case for tanks?

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] April 28 2009 12:42 AM EDT

I forgot to add the UC fighters sorry guys no offense intended. I cannot forget them as its a matter of who has the most amount of Time/HP. They could be patient and pick me off in Melee if I can't do enough damage to them in the Ranged round to take them out. It would be a shameful pwning if they have a good Jiggy and a high enough AS to back them up.

iBananco [Blue Army] April 28 2009 3:11 AM EDT

The mageseeker is significantly more useful if you've got physical damage covered already and plan to go a significant number of rounds in melee, which is probably why Ranger, with a quick-kill strat, found it less than effective.

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] April 28 2009 11:02 AM EDT

Quick Kill Strats? Please Enlighten me :)

Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] April 28 2009 11:03 AM EDT

As the name implies, it's a strategy that's designed to kill quickly. (Usually before going into melee).

QBRanger April 28 2009 11:06 AM EDT

The major problem I had with the msb is PL.

Most people have PL at the level I am not fighting. With the lower damage the MSB does, about 2/3 to 1/2 the ELB, PL keep the mage alive long enough.

And vs RBF characters, I want to kill as fast as possible. Vs mage teams, I should have enough HP to live through a few missile rounds hoping to deal enough damage.

On a single minion, who cannot wear armor or a cloak, I want to do as much damage as quickly as possible.

I too used the MsB and found the ELB to be overall much better.

Which is why I traded my mageseekers for an elven long bow.

QBRanger April 28 2009 11:07 AM EDT

Most people have PL at the level I am noW fighting.

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] April 28 2009 12:38 PM EDT

Ahh ok now I understand why you said what you said....makes sense. So what would you think is a better solution in this just go ELB from the Start or do MSKer up to a certain point and then go ELB? I ask this because there seems to be a lot of Mages in the beginning of the MPR pool. MSKer just seemed to be the obvious choice to me as most of the teams have walls/enchanters/Familiars blocking/taking damage for them for them.

QBRanger April 28 2009 1:11 PM EDT

I would use the ELB from the start.

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] April 28 2009 6:59 PM EDT

Ok say I go ELB I think I would do a ToA instead just for the massive boost to my damage, would you use a AoM for more str or AoAC to help make up for the lack of AC?

DoS April 28 2009 7:00 PM EDT


QBRanger April 28 2009 7:01 PM EDT

AoM without a doubt.

AoAC should be used on a wall, or perhaps a mage.

AoM for any tank.
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002jjI">Single Minion: Strat Me!</a>