Decay hitting for more than half? (in General)


iBananco [Blue Army] May 11 2009 6:48 AM EDT

Penguin overshot Luke Skywalker
Frosty's Decay hit Luke Skywalker [745028]

Penguin burns from the flames surrounding Luke Skywalker (1162897)
Penguin's shot went wide of Luke Skywalker
Frosty's Decay hit Luke Skywalker [320362]
R.I.P. Penguin

Frosty burns from the flames surrounding Luke Skywalker (1202996)
Frosty's Decay hit Luke Skywalker [120838]
R.I.P. Frosty

Not taking GA backlash or RoBF damage, and no AMF is involved.

iBananco [Blue Army] May 11 2009 6:50 AM EDT

It's not damage reduction of any sort either, because I end the battle with exactly 120838 HP.

iBananco [Blue Army] May 11 2009 6:51 AM EDT

Target is wearing AGs.

iBananco [Blue Army] May 11 2009 6:57 AM EDT

(745028-320362)/745028=0.57000, implying a 14% boost, which is extremely odd, as the gloves in question are +12 named.

iBananco [Blue Army] May 11 2009 7:01 AM EDT

Penguin undershot Luke Skywalker
Frosty's Decay hit Luke Skywalker [613889]

Penguin burns from the flames surrounding Luke Skywalker (1201246)
Penguin's shot ricocheted near Luke Skywalker
Frosty's Decay hit Luke Skywalker [263972]
R.I.P. Penguin

Frosty burns from the flames surrounding Luke Skywalker (1070965)
Frosty's Decay hit Luke Skywalker [99569]
R.I.P. Frosty

Again, (613889 - 263972)/613889 = 0.5700004.

Sickone May 11 2009 7:06 AM EDT

And still always ending the fight with a HP amount equal to the last decay display ? That is very, very weird. You'd expect it to work the same in all rounds, why would the last one be any more special ?

Could you post all damage messages from the start, complete with final HP on you ? Just so we can sum up the damages being dealt, see if they come up to your total HP or over it (in other words, if it's a decay damage dealt bug or just a damage display bug).

iBananco [Blue Army] May 11 2009 7:21 AM EDT

Hit Points 57,108

Play-by-play
Luke Skywalker Pack Mule Service
Luke Skywalker cast Dispel Magic on all enemy Minions (1,439,475)
Penguin cast Dispel Magic on all enemy Minions (3,661,821)
Penguin cast Ablative Shield on all friendly Minions (298498)
Ranged Combat
Luke Skywalker hit Frosty's familiar with Eaglehorn [403166]
Frosty's familiar's Magic Missile hit Luke Skywalker [600853]
Frosty overshot Luke Skywalker
Rusty's Magic Missile hit Luke Skywalker [407964]

Luke Skywalker shot Frosty's familiar with Eaglehorn [410668]
Penguin's shot went wide of Luke Skywalker
Frosty's familiar's Magic Missile hit Luke Skywalker [548779]
Frosty's shot flew past Luke Skywalker
Rusty's Magic Missile hit Luke Skywalker [503225]

Luke Skywalker shot Frosty's familiar with Eaglehorn [616137]
Penguin's shot ricocheted near Luke Skywalker
Frosty's familiar's Magic Missile hit Luke Skywalker [885546]
Frosty's shot ricocheted near Luke Skywalker
Rusty's Magic Missile hit Luke Skywalker [479517]

Luke Skywalker hit Frosty's familiar with Eaglehorn [509977]
Luke Skywalker struck deep into Frosty's familiar with Eaglehorn [440844]
Luke Skywalker skewered Frosty's familiar with Eaglehorn [570672]
Penguin overshot Luke Skywalker
Frosty's familiar's Magic Missile hit Luke Skywalker [509276]
Frosty's shot went wide of Luke Skywalker
Rusty's Magic Missile hit Luke Skywalker [673029]
R.I.P. Frosty's familiar

Luke Skywalker hit Rusty with Eaglehorn [538844]
Luke Skywalker hit Rusty with Eaglehorn [488381]
Luke Skywalker shot Rusty with Eaglehorn [644137]
Luke Skywalker struck deep into Rusty with Eaglehorn [457048]
Luke Skywalker skewered Rusty with Eaglehorn [480492]
Penguin undershot Luke Skywalker
Frosty's shot ricocheted near Luke Skywalker
Rusty's Magic Missile hit Luke Skywalker [656396]
R.I.P. Rusty

Luke Skywalker's Cone of Cold hit Penguin for no damage
Luke Skywalker's Cone of Cold hit Frosty for no damage
Penguin's shot flew past Luke Skywalker
Frosty's Decay hit Luke Skywalker [704186]

Melee Combat
Luke Skywalker's Cone of Cold hit Frosty for no damage
Penguin burns from the flames surrounding Luke Skywalker (1014510)
Penguin's shot ricocheted near Luke Skywalker
Frosty's Decay hit Luke Skywalker [302800]
R.I.P. Penguin

Luke Skywalker's Cone of Cold hit Frosty for no damage
Frosty burns from the flames surrounding Luke Skywalker (1123027)
Frosty's Decay hit Luke Skywalker [114214]

Frosty burns from the flames surrounding Luke Skywalker (1287413)
Frosty's Decay hit Luke Skywalker [57107]
R.I.P. Frosty

Sum of damage to me prior to round 6: 5264585
HP Remaining: 1235415
Decay damage: 704186
Ratio: .5699996
HP Remaining: 531229
Decay damage: 302800
Ratio: .5699990
HP Remaining: 228429
Decay damage: 114214
Ratio: .4999978
HP Remaining: 114215
Decay damage: 57107
Ratio: .4999956
HP Remaining: 57,108

For some reason, the bonus vanishes after round 7.

Wizard'sFirstRule May 11 2009 7:24 AM EDT

I have a feeling it is just a typo in the codes.

QBRanger May 11 2009 8:46 AM EDT

The RBF does not lower decay damage.

AG's do not increase decay damage, they only raise its level to compare vs AMF. AG's on a decay mage is sort of laughable.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] May 11 2009 10:04 AM EDT

This is not a typo or an error. The boost to the decay damage is coming from leadership. penguin much have either AoL or BoF which is increasing the damage to decay. After all leadership gives a direct % increase to the damage done with spells or physical hits.

AdminShade May 11 2009 11:05 AM EDT

Penguin is wearing Boots of Fortitude, but they do NOT increase Decay damage. They only increase the 'power' of the spell of your _other_ minions.

Also Penguin does not use an Amulet of Leadership...

AdminShade May 11 2009 11:11 AM EDT

also this:

It's not damage reduction of any sort either, because I end the battle with exactly 120838 HP.


Isn't it 'kevlar's character' who needs to end with exactly 120838 HP?

QBRanger May 11 2009 11:28 AM EDT

Still does not explain:
Sum of damage to me prior to round 6: 5264585
HP Remaining: 1235415
Decay damage: 704186
Ratio: .5699996
HP Remaining: 531229
Decay damage: 302800
Ratio: .5699990
HP Remaining: 228429
Decay damage: 114214
Ratio: .4999978
HP Remaining: 114215
Decay damage: 57107
Ratio: .4999956
HP Remaining: 57,108

For some reason, the bonus vanishes after round 7.

QBRanger May 11 2009 11:33 AM EDT

I think I figured it out:

He is using:
Fusion Boots [12] (+26) worth $1,233,207 owned by kevlar (Pack Mule Service) on his first minion. Named that is +28 or 14% more to DD spells.

When the character wearing it dies, the decay goes back to 50%, before it is 57%.

1/2 of 14 is 7%.

I believe there is a bug in the program that is adding 1/2 of the DD bonus (as decay does 1/2 hp) to the 50%. Since decay is not a typical DD spell, there must be something programmed wrong given the decays 50% damage.

I would like to see if he removes these BoF, if the decay is back to 50% in all rounds.

AdminShade May 11 2009 12:02 PM EDT

Oh wait, it's about Frosty hitting you, well in that case:

You have 6500000 HP

Ranged Combat
Frosty's familiar's Magic Missile hit Luke Skywalker [600853]
Rusty's Magic Missile hit Luke Skywalker [407964]

Frosty's familiar's Magic Missile hit Luke Skywalker [548779]
Rusty's Magic Missile hit Luke Skywalker [503225]

Frosty's familiar's Magic Missile hit Luke Skywalker [885546]
Rusty's Magic Missile hit Luke Skywalker [479517]

Frosty's familiar's Magic Missile hit Luke Skywalker [509276]
Rusty's Magic Missile hit Luke Skywalker [673029]

Rusty's Magic Missile hit Luke Skywalker [656396]



You took: 5264585 damage during these rounds
You have: 1235415 HP left

Frosty's Decay hit Luke Skywalker [704186]

You have 531229 HP left after this, somehow you either took less damage than you were supposed to from Decay, OR you had more HP to begin with.

The Decay implies that you had 1408372 HP. that's a difference of 172957 with what your damage log shows.


Indeed, you seem to take more damage from decay than it should do, and that is leveled out suddenly at round 7 you say.


Frosty is the one with the Decay, and Penguin dies prior to that round. So the BoF's of Penguin do have influence in the damage which you take from Frosty's Decay.


A Flux Capacitor [0] (+11) this makes a +12 in effect, this would mean a 6% increase in enchantment level of his Decay spell, not in pure damage.



Could the Shield of Capacity influence the damage you take or does it only influence physical damage? I think not...

AdminShade May 11 2009 12:05 PM EDT

Ranger: I was about to come to that also :p

You figured it out.

The BoF's are named (+28 in total) and have a 14%

They are designed to increase the level of the spell, not the damage. But it seems like half of the BoF's effect increases your damage...

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] May 11 2009 12:12 PM EDT

Leadership is a direct increase to the damage done. That means that the decay would be doing 617707 damage. You take that amount and multiply by 1.14 to get 704186 or the actual amount done by the decay. This means that it is theoretically possible to kill with a decay mage if you were somehow able to get a 100 leadership effect. That is with no AMF effecting it.

QBRanger May 11 2009 12:57 PM EDT

Nem,

However, that is not how it is and was stated in the changelog.

It raises DD enchantment level by .5% per +.

It never stated it increased damage by that much, as with AMF we know that is not true.

It has to be a bug with the program.

AdminShade May 11 2009 1:08 PM EDT

nem: what are you talking about Leadership?

I don't see an Amulet of Leadership on kevlar's character anywhere or am I blind after my surgery? ;)

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 11 2009 1:12 PM EDT

bof grant leadership.

AdminShade May 11 2009 1:13 PM EDT

Why isn't this listed at the Basic information and stats part of the wiki?

Rawr May 11 2009 1:16 PM EDT

Primary effect: While your first minion is alive wearing these boots, it gives a bonus of 0.5% per enchantment level to the strength and direct damage spells of your other minions. Also grants +0.5 to-hit per enchantment plus to each of your other minions.

Is that not Leadership?

AdminShade May 11 2009 1:16 PM EDT

Neither the BoF's leadership nor the BoF's increase in DD spell level should give Decay the bonus though.

So then it's finding out which one is the perpetrator...
Do we have another Decay mage with either of those items?

AdminShade May 11 2009 1:17 PM EDT

Oh, the full effect of Leadership is stated instead of using the word leadership... sigh...

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] May 11 2009 1:35 PM EDT

I took this from the original post indicating the intro of the AoL

AdminJonathan February 8 2008 12:26 PM EST
> I take it the AoL 1% per enchantment increase to DD doesn't effect Decay

Actually it does.

Rawr May 11 2009 1:46 PM EDT

^

Yeah, BoF and AoL increase the lvl of the Decay DD, but I don't think he meant it would increase the percentage at which Decay "decays." ie, a 500,000 Decay with +20 BoF will be a 550,000 Decay. I don't think it means it would take 60% of the HP away...

QBRanger May 11 2009 1:47 PM EDT

Actually it does increase the DD LEVEL, not the DD damage.

So his decay is 14% higher than base. It does should only do 50% damage to a DM character.

QBRanger May 11 2009 1:50 PM EDT

Here is the post on the AoL:

http://www.carnageblender.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002LVC

AdminShade May 11 2009 2:00 PM EDT

so it's a bug of Leadership then?

QBRanger May 11 2009 2:30 PM EDT

Just added to list of known bugs/problems.

Colonel Custard May 11 2009 3:30 PM EDT

Can anyone test this with tank damage? It's supposed to increase ST level and DD level, but it may increase physical and magical damage. Since neither boost to levels actually appear in post-battle stats, it may be simply that it was not stated clearly exactly what leadership does, and a similar pair of BoF may also increase physical damage by 14% over regular. Obviously, though, the random factor of weapon damage would make this harder to test. Can someone try it out?

Or could someone try with other DD? See if you land any hits with Fireball that do more than 65% of your spell level in damage, or something.

AdminShade May 11 2009 3:45 PM EDT

but it may increase physical and magical damage.

It doesn't increase physical damage because it only affects trained stats / skills / spells and not weapons ;)


However it could boost one's UC even more perhaps... ?

Colonel Custard May 11 2009 5:07 PM EDT

Shade: I'm asking for data. Obviously, in the case of Decay, it isn't functioning as we understand it to be intended to work. I was wondering if this is something that happens across the board. If leadership is applied after damage is calculated, which it seems like it may be, then it may boost damage in a way that it isn't supposed to.

Beleg's Gloves give ranged damage a percentage increase, even though they're not supposed to boost the weapon, per se. Who is to know how it is actually applied in the equation and the code?

Cube May 11 2009 8:48 PM EDT

Leadership was always a boost to DD damage - this is because of AMF.

QBRanger May 11 2009 9:40 PM EDT

Huh,

that is news to me, especially after rereading Jon's initial post on the AoL.

Cube May 11 2009 11:04 PM EDT

The changelog on it was pretty vague

Well, AMF isn't calculated every round, so it was a straight boost to damage. I realized this as it doesn't change the AMF percentage, but you still get a damage boost.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] May 11 2009 11:06 PM EDT

I know that there is a thread somewhere stating that leadership is just a direct % increase to damage, I just can't remember where it was.

AdminShade May 12 2009 1:13 AM EDT

The increase to damage shouldn't make Decay more powerful though, 50% of HP is 50% of HP ;)

AdminShade May 12 2009 1:14 AM EDT

Would it also mean that a single Decay cast on a 1 HP minion would make it die?

kevlar May 12 2009 2:52 AM EDT

Wow, Frosty and Penguin are famous :) I don't know about Decay that much, but here is an attack without the boots of fortitude, does it help? Also, Ranger, why did you comment on the AGs?


Frosty's Decay hit Luke Skywalker [910980]
Luke Skywalker shot Frosty with Eaglehorn [593361]
Luke Skywalker shot Frosty with Eaglehorn [518238]
Luke Skywalker hit Frosty with Eaglehorn [546129]


Melee Combat
Penguin overshot Luke Skywalker
Frosty's Decay hit Luke Skywalker [455490]
Penguin burns from the flames surrounding Luke Skywalker (1340573)
Luke Skywalker swung wildly at Frosty

R.I.P. Penguin

Frosty's Decay hit Luke Skywalker [227745]
Frosty burns from the flames surrounding Luke Skywalker (1263826)

AdminShade May 12 2009 4:43 AM EDT

Frosty's Decay hit Luke Skywalker [910980]

Frosty's Decay hit Luke Skywalker [455490]

2x 455490 = 910980. Yup, it's the BoF's

lostling May 12 2009 5:59 AM EDT

Yes nem is correct... And i think jon named it as a feature rather then a bug...

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] May 12 2009 6:50 AM EDT

Ohhh...

Now I have a 2 minion team idea! Decay can kill! ;)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] May 12 2009 7:17 AM EDT

First, Leadership backed Decay still can't kill. :(

Secondly, I'm seeing some weirdness with BoF backed decay.

Percentages of health as damage done per round;

Without BoF
1: 50
2: 50
3: 50
4: 48
5: 50
6: 50
7: 50
8: 50
9: 0

(Looks fine apart from round 4? :/)

With +20 BoF;

1: 55
2: 55
3: 54
4: 52
5: 55
6: 40
7: 33
8: 50
9: 0

Totally strange. The BoF wearer was backed by PL, so didn't die during the fight. Why did the Decay damage go so low as 33% of the current health?

There was no AMF in play.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] May 12 2009 7:21 AM EDT

It seems to be rounding when you hit single figure Health.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] May 13 2009 6:23 AM EDT

Adding a +8 AoL (for +28 total)
I get;

1: 59%
2: 58%
3: 57%
4: 56%
5: 50%
6: 50%
7: 50%
8: 0
9: 0

It's it's 50% Leadership being applied to Decay, shouldn't we be seeing at least 64% damage?

This is working really strangely...

If anyone has some massive BoF/AoL they don't mind lending for an hour or so, I can see if we can get the Leadership bonus large enough to allow Decay to kill.

But I'm thinking it's a rounding issue. although I'm hoping we can get Decay high enough to kill. ;)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] May 13 2009 6:25 AM EDT

Gah, forgot it was 0.5 Leadership per plus for the Boots. 59% in round one is correct (20*0.5 + 8)/2 = 9.

blackshadowshade May 13 2009 7:47 AM EDT

So, how much net worth before it's possible to get a Finger of Death?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] May 13 2009 8:02 AM EDT

:)

We'd need +100 Leadership, spread across Amulet (at +1 per +) and Boots (at +0.5 per +). If no other Leadership items/skills are introduced.

But at +100 You should be able to inflict 100% (+50% to Decay's original 50%) of Current HP damage to your target. Ignoring AC, but limited by AMF.

I wonder if that would be able to actually kill though, or if Decay is limited to being unable to kll, regardless of how much damage it should inflict.

AdminNightStrike May 15 2009 6:23 PM EDT

I'm waiting for the post that summarizes the last big jumble of stuff...

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] May 15 2009 6:26 PM EDT

In Summary, 50% of your Leadership is sort of added to your Decays normal damage.

But it sometimes seems to work for less (sometimes even less than the usual 50%...) for no apparrent reason.

Also, it's possible tha Decay can't kill, regardless of the amount of Leadership you have.

AdminNightStrike May 15 2009 6:27 PM EDT

Just leadership from boots, or all leadership?

AdminNightStrike May 15 2009 7:29 PM EDT

Looking at what's going on, this is within spec, so to speak.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] May 16 2009 4:15 AM EDT

All Leadership.

It's cool that Leadership is supposed to increase Decay Damage alongside the other DD, but why at 50%?

Also, why, when using Leadership Boosted Decay does the damage you inflict fluctuate so much? Down to 30 odd percent of current life in some cases.

Also, is Decay allowed to kill, if you get enough Leadership? Or is Decay cast on 1 HP always programmed not to be able to kill?

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] May 16 2009 4:22 AM EDT

Leadership isn't increasing the decay effect by 50%. It is actually just increasing the damage by the % of leadership. That way it just looks like it is increasing the effect by 50% of the leadership. Also at 1 hp you will never kill with decay, because 0 multiplied by anything is still 0 so unless you have 100 leadership you will never kill with decay.

Good Luck getting 100 leadership though. It is like trying to get a MgS that reduces all magic damage.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] May 16 2009 9:42 AM EDT

Ah, so the +10% damage from Leadership is 10% of the 50% making decay hit for 55%.

But for 1 HP, depending on rounding, you wouldn't need 100 Leadership, unless Decay damage rounds down to the nearest integer.

It would be nice to know if that's the case, or if Decay is just programmed to never kill.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] May 16 2009 9:50 AM EDT

No, it wouldn't be that way for 1 hp. At 1 hp it would never kill no matter what the leadership because the damage it would originally be doing is 0 and any % increase of 0 is still 0. Since it will never kill when the hp is higher unless you have 100 leadership then the only way to kill is when you hit that point, in which case it would just be instant death.

QBRanger May 16 2009 10:05 AM EDT

Well if it works for decay, why not for everything else?

Let it increase physical damage by 1/2 the leadership amount, not just increase strength by that much.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] May 16 2009 10:08 AM EDT

Ranger, it already works the same for physical damage as it does on decay. For that matter it works on DD spells exactly the same way.

QBRanger May 16 2009 10:11 AM EDT

I thought Leadership increased strength by 1/2% each BoF + and 1% each AoL +.

Not damage as increased damage is not linear to increased strength.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] May 16 2009 10:14 AM EDT

That is correct Ranger, it does not increase damage by 1/2. Leadership affects ST and pth, not damage.

QBRanger May 16 2009 10:35 AM EDT

So tanks get another knife in the back?

Leadership increases mage damage linearly, including decay, while tanks get a boost to strength which is not a linear increase in damage.

Seems about right for CB now a days.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 16 2009 10:44 AM EDT

the cost for upgrades on leadership items is linear or just the effect? remember that melee weapons get linear damage upgrade costs and while effects from some items give mages linear upgrades the cost usually aren't linear. this is the limiting factor usually from my understanding.

iBananco [Blue Army] May 16 2009 11:15 AM EDT

Actually, since leadership also adds +, it increases damage on the order of +^(3/2).
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