Proof that forging needs a boost (in General)
May 13 2009 2:08 AM EDT
Alright so I bought a full round of BA (I am in the 6 regen rate) to see if it is worthwhile to buy BA and forge. I forged the x on my exbow. I do not receive the 5% forging bonus but I will factor that in in a second.
I added 20 x's with 144 ba so here are the calculations:
Total value added to the bow:
20 x 9,317 = 186,340 (assuming an extra 5% bonus if I was in an econ clan it works out to 195,637)
15% of 195,637 = 29,348
144 ba * 1,298 each = 186,912
So that works out to a loss of 216,260-195,637= ($20,623)
So if you BUY BA and forge you are in fact LOSING money. Not to mention that if you're forging for somebody else you're only getting say 70% of the income.
So you can choose to lose the growth of your tatoo and character, in return for throwing away money if you buy BA.
I understand buying BA if you're fighting because it is not intended to make money however this just seems silly.
May 13 2009 2:10 AM EDT
If you buy BA you will also be losing money while fighting. The tradeoff is that you gain more exp. The tradeoff here is that you gain more NW.
May 13 2009 2:11 AM EDT
oh and I just realized that that took me 144 bought BA as well as 12 normal regen just to receive the 20 x's. wow forging sucks.
May 13 2009 2:12 AM EDT
haha ya but my point is that it saves you 20k to just go to the blacksmith and upgrade it there. you LOSE 20k if you buy BA.
depends on efficiency... you get ~20% more nw than money spent on something like TGs or BoNE x, but you'll get somewhere around 68% of each dollar spent translated into DB nw ^_^
May 13 2009 2:37 AM EDT
Forging Efficiency = The amount of NW gained/Cost of BA
Also, if you are fighting, you typically lose money too when buying BA.
May 13 2009 3:01 AM EDT
oh for sure when you're fighting but the point of buying BA to fight isn't to make money. It is Illogical that you cannot make a positive gain forging for even yourself while buying BA and forging given the character/tat growth you are sacrificing.
I hear you, if you buy BA to forge, you're not gaining any EXP and the NW you gain is only marginal. But if you use the same amount of BA to fight with and BS the weapon you gain more then you lose :)
Yeah forging does need a boost in RPM
May 13 2009 7:27 AM EDT
spent 144 BA forgin LOL...you havent forged jack crap until you forge an item that gets .94 a cycle and spend a month or more on ONE single (X)...
The idea of the forge was not to MAKE you money, but for one without money to be able to build their eqpt up themselves and not have to pay the Blacksmith
how do you figure you lose money CB or otherwise in a free game?
Is what you are "losing" is your FREE TIME,,you gumby
"The idea of the forge was not to MAKE you money, but for one without money to be able to build their eqpt up themselves and not have to pay the Blacksmith"
He's demonstrating that it's more profitable, even just in a monetary sense, to fight and make money and pay the BS.
Of course, there is another factor involved there: how much money you make per fight. For example, if fighting through 144 BA (or 156 BA?) got you 187k in CBD rewards, it would show this forge rate to be absolutely abysmal. However, if you only make, say, 100k in that many battles, it does make sense to trade off between fighting and forging periodically if you only have to pay forging fees and you're using natural BA regen.
May 13 2009 12:07 PM EDT
My main point with this thread that I think it is pretty brutal that if you forge you CANNOt and SHOULD not buy BA!!!
It is not that forging makes you any more money but the point of forging isn't about money.
My point was that if you are forging buying ba is simply a waste of money. It is better to never buy ba and put that money into the BS instead.
That seems kinda sad.
May 13 2009 12:39 PM EDT
Do not forget that while fighting your tattoo grows.
Which increases its level/NW, giving more profit to the fighter over forger.
May 13 2009 2:50 PM EDT
and that's of even greater value in a game where tattoos are the most valuable items in the game - characters are throwaway, but tattoos last from NCB to NCB.
May 13 2009 2:56 PM EDT
I'm sorry, can you point to me where somebody said that you should buy BA when you forge?
Because I always thought it was common knowledge that you never should do this.
May 13 2009 2:58 PM EDT
well: OB in the post right above you had a forging thread a while back where he bought ba...
and I'm certainly arguing that their should be some gain from buying BA and forging. It should NOT be a lose situation as it stands now.
May 13 2009 3:22 PM EDT
I do indeed - and currently am in the process of - forging and purchasing BA for the client.
I don't do this for extra profit, as I know it is unprofitable, but it allows me to add more NW to an item within a given time period at only a small loss to my overall profit.
In other words, I do it so I can forge faster so they can get their item back more quickly. Especially when you're forging a weapon, people have to find replacements while you're forging those.
May 13 2009 3:34 PM EDT
Considering the idea of throw away characters, you should never buy BA to fight either as that means XP is worthless. So what's your point? If you could buy BA to make a profit forging, then everyone would have to buy BA everyday. Why? because there'd be no downside.
Cube, usually people buy BA to level tattoos, not characters.
May 13 2009 3:42 PM EDT
So, like I've been saying for over 2 years, BUFF FORGING PLZ
May 13 2009 3:44 PM EDT
That's not true either unless you are talking about the top tattoos because it costs more to buy the BA than to insta up.
It's worth buying BA if you aren't going to throw your character away though.
May 13 2009 3:46 PM EDT
Even mid ranges tattoos, those now over 5M levels, can be raised through buying of BA since an insta is very unlikely.
And as one gets higher up, the insta rate goes way up, sometimes over 100%.
May 13 2009 3:48 PM EDT
oh wow...a simple solution:
yes just boost the forging efficiency to MPR curve serving a duel purpose. Increasing character values and increasing forging efficiency.
wow so simple
May 13 2009 3:51 PM EDT
but characters that forge don't grow. :(
so the longer you do what you're good at, the worse you get at it. Already a problem, but exacerbated by the preceding solution.
May 13 2009 3:54 PM EDT
well you wouldn't get worse at it but you wouldn't get better either. Also forging shouldn't be such a long term thing that you run into that problem very often
May 13 2009 3:57 PM EDT
I actually kind of like the idea of a "Forging MPR", resulting in a model similar to physical damage (weapon x and ST) to create a linear growth.
how about "forging MPR" is applied to users rather than characters?
May 13 2009 4:00 PM EDT
I prefer that idea 3/4s.
Not sure how many of you remember, but a while ago, I brought up the idea:
When making a new char, you get to choose "Forger" or "Fighter." If you pick a forger, you start at 0 MPR, just like a fighter, but as you forge, you gain MPR. Now, I understand that forging at 0 MPR does nothing right now as it stands. But with this method, maybe have an (invisible) starting forging VPR of, say, 1.5 mil?
Or another method:
Like before, choose "Forger" or "Fighter." When choosing either, you get an NCB, at the end of an NCB, a "Forger" can no longer fight, he may only forge, but forging will allow him to continue gaining MPR.
Maybe an add-on to either:
Not to gain as much exp as a fighter would, but make it so, the longer the forger forges without the dwarf butting in, raise efficiency (or MPR) .01% everyday or something?
May 13 2009 4:34 PM EDT
Small then you could just create a fighting character and a forging character.
May 13 2009 4:42 PM EDT
What about those people who forge and fight?
Like Sefton did long ago.
May 13 2009 10:02 PM EDT
That was a lot more viable at the old BA regen rates than it is now, Ranger. ;)
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