Why the Rolling Bonus idea >>> NUB (in General)

QBRanger June 12 2009 6:16 PM EDT

A bit from chat:

<rrowland> I had fun until I had to move and then wasted hundreds of unrecoverable NUB BA over a week which meant I probably would get stuck in 7/20 or something so I didn't play another couple weeks and now it just seems pointless
<Ranger> no
<Demigod> rrowland, you're back in the game?
<Ranger> seems like he is selling out, given his 2 FS posts
<{CB1}Zenai_U'Lanya> there is a way to make up for it rrow
<Demigod> i hadn't checked the forums
<Ranger> now if we had a rolling bonus, this would not be an issue
<rrowland> The NUB puts an uncomfortable pressure on me, I don't really like it

Now with a Rolling Bonus (RB), things like this would not happen, and perhaps more people would play.

Now you have 3 choices if you mess up your NUB:

1) Leave, and sell out
2) Start a NCB and spend all your money in BA
3) Keep your crappy character and flounder

I still fail to get the argument that a RB would make people lazier.
How? Would people play less knowing in a week their RB would be fractionally higher? Would people miss some BA knowing this?

I dispute that saying the RB should not make up for lost time, but help counter it--To a Degree.

So please reconsider a Rolling Bonus!!.

Wasp [C and S Forgery Lmtd.] June 12 2009 6:19 PM EDT

Or remove (or even lower) the cost of Ba on NCB. This would be an excellent place to start as you are not making the players "lazy"

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 12 2009 6:30 PM EDT

Yes, lets make it easier for folks like that guy...

Does dedication mean nothing?

When he sends back the tat I gave him I'll consider that maybe he would have been worth keeping.

MissingNo June 12 2009 6:47 PM EDT

I agree with Novice.

Giving the game a rolling bonus won't stop secret multi NUBs from selling out either.

NooneKnows June 12 2009 6:50 PM EDT

another wasted NUB here. I enjoyed the game, but school came first, causing me to miss most of my NUB. now I just come back for a week or so every couple of months before I realize I'm just wasting my time (option 3).

I mean, I have fun with the game. but I could be having fun and being competitive.

oh well.

{WW]Nayab [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 12 2009 6:56 PM EDT

I thinks this idea became a better option recently when Jon changed it so you got fight rewards. It means players have to choose between being lazy and waiting for the RB to get higher or spend their BA in the hope they get a rare drop.

AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] June 12 2009 7:02 PM EDT

Hey instead, how about an on/off button on my bonus, so I can turn it on and off depending if I feel like using it, that way I can stretch it out longer. If I happen to leave for a while, I won't waste it.

And that way, maybe that can pave the way for future improvements that involve earning more bonus time for doing something.

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] June 12 2009 7:07 PM EDT

Mmmm Flounder... but I so prefer Carp...

But anyways along the lines of RB, I really do think it might help player retention... I even think it might make alot of the old vets come back... even if they don't play often...

An RB doesn't have to go all the way to the top... maybe even into 6/20 would be high enough... alot of people don't stay with their chars because they see no upwards growth on them... if you don't add alot of Exp to a char it doesn't ever look like its going anywhere.

I see Nov's points as well as Ranger's points... But this could be one of those test for a few weeks to see what happens... just a short 2-4 week period to see if it works or if it doesn't. I know I for one have added years of work to several different chars, and I would feel a little slighted if all my hard work went to naught... but it might always be worth a test.

Sickone June 12 2009 7:12 PM EDT

I have no problem showing long-term dedication, as in, trying to log in at least twice a day, and most days of the year, to burn BA.
It's not always possible to use all daily BA, and it certainly does feel uncomfortable whenever sleep of other RL-obligations cause you to miss a larger chunk of BA... and let's not even talk about vacation time, or short trips, or long shifts, or a weekend with your freinds and other such things.
I don't know about you, but I don't have a mobile internet-capable device, and even assuming I COULD use one everywhere I go (I seriously doubt that), I don't plan to get one JUST to play CB (because it won't do me much good otherwise).

But what the game requires in the N*B phase... that's _NOT_ dedication... that's simply _OBSESSION_

I have pondered several times over starting a NCB... and then I think to myself... one round of BA lost to sleep and job... one out of two or three weekends lost to visiting friends and family... if I start one now, I might miss most of one or two vacation weeks... but, wait, in 6 months, I might get another 1-week vacation and miss that again...
...the conclusion was always the same : the NCB is simply WAY too brutal to go through PROPERLY, too much to willingly put myself through. Because I know, once I start it, I _will_ feel compelled to skip sleep and be angry and tired (as if I'm not already skipping enough sleep unwillingly due to medical issues)... and I will postpone or skip on longer get-togethers just so that I can be near a PC every 8 hours or so... thanks, but no, thanks... I'm not doing that again.

The current situation is horribly annoying, especially since you know all you'd have to do would be to have kid press some buttons for you every few hours, just so he could enter the botchecks... because that's all there is to it most of the time... strategy and such things are issues you plan for weeks or months and slowly alter them, not something you change your mind about every dozen fights or so.

The N*B deserves to die a painful, fiery death, and then have its ashes dumped in a cesspool, filled with concrete and shot into the sun by repeated nuclear explosions.
Rolling bonus all the way.

And even if it pains me to say this, I can't believe Jon can be so blindingly ignorant of just how BAD his (N*B) system is, and how much better the system he opposes so much (RB) - out of some misguided idea that's not even remotely true - is.

Sickone June 12 2009 7:20 PM EDT

Just to drive the point even clearer (yes, I do have VERY strong feelings about it)... answer me this...
NCB : how exactly is 6 months of 80% BA burn (+ 33% BA "for free" for NUB) that result in a botom 6/20 (or mid-to-top 6/20 for NUB) spot considered "dedication"
RB : yet somehow, 1++ year of 80% BA burn for a high 7/20, hopefully a bottom 6/20 spot would instead be "promoting lazyness" ?

Fatil1ty June 12 2009 10:16 PM EDT

I think a better option would be the following and would result in much reduced attraction for starting a new user and being a multi.

Reduce the cost of BA: The cost of BA is RIDICULOUS for both regular and NCB characters. I include regular because I noticed a while back through some research that by forging you cannot add more NW than the amount of money you spent buying the BA. Therefore it is better to just take the cash you would have spent on BA and BS the item instead. If BA were cheaper MANY users would be more likely to start NCB's which would make it much more likely that vets would stay as running an NCB is MUCH more exciting than a post NCB character (my opinion).

I think a better solution than the rolling bonus and somewhat of a middle ground would be a HALT button allowing people to go on week long vacations. I think it's a little ridiculous that to come anywhere close to reaching the top MPR ranks you cannot get a full nights sleep until your in 6BA and you cannot take any vacations, and you cannot go to the cottage. Basically you cannot stray farther than a short distance from your computer. Pretty sad.

Give it say two or three HALT commands per NCB and one for a NUB.

What do you guys think.

lostling June 12 2009 10:31 PM EDT

make rolling bonus only affect exp and we might have something to talk about

Mesoshort June 12 2009 10:44 PM EDT

I do like the idea of a "stop/halt" option. BUT it would have certain restrictions. Such as two or three per N*B run, OR make it be for at least one week but less than one month. If you return before the week is up, you do not get your bonus but you can continue fighting at normal rates.

I also like the idea of reducing the amount of purchased BA for NCB players. Even fighting at 100%, each fight generates around (now) $200-300, and BA costs (me) $3,718 EACH. Let's do the math here... unless you are Zenai (;D) there is no way that you can keep up with that.

And not everyone fights to get the "god's gift"... But that's for another thread. The point is, N*B are... unless you are 250% dedicated, you won't get far and then its just trudging through the ranks to see if you can eventually get up there. Assuming your strategy doesn't get "nerfed" and all your hard work goes -poof!-

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] June 12 2009 10:57 PM EDT

The goal of this game is to find a strategy that will make you win, by mix-matching the various equipment and techniques that are at your disposal. THAT's the fun in it. That is also where ''skill'' can make a difference. Management skills, reflexion, ability to juggle with numbers...Waking up after six hours of sleep EVERY DAY for six months to press enter 160 times is not ''skillful''. It's robotic, and stupid. It can also be very bad for your health.

Bottom line:Wasting BA is not ''lazy''. I hate seeing this word repeated in here. Being dedicated to your N*B just means that you are a slave to the game. I don't think there is anything great about that. How is it supposed to be fun?

We need to be able to compete WHILE having a life. We need a rolling bonus. Maybe not a straight ride to the top, but close. It would promote strategy over plain robotic clicking, which should be the focus of CB.

Speaking of which, I really need to go to sleep, ten minutes ago. So...

Rolling Bonus, please. Anything over the N*B. It was spawned from good intentions but it sucks, badly.

DeathTheKid June 12 2009 11:03 PM EDT

Maybe allowing some BA to accumulate for NUB. Like a weeks worth BA(+bought). after NUB is over, everything goes back to normal. Maybe something like this could stop some people from quitting or something.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 12 2009 11:06 PM EDT

i would love a rolling bonus and upon first hearing we would have a nub in cb2 i had high hopes for just such a thing.

with that said though, i do think the ncb is awesome and people really just want too darn much. i played cb1 from 3 of 2003 until the end and had no bonus ever. it was quite discouraging.

while our system is not perfect, the ncb allows (without any extra cb) a user to get in the top fifty with six months of dwindling dedication. it is tough for a week, then a bit easier for a couple of weeks, getting easier all the time. if you really want to be top ten you can work at it with multiple runs and likely get there.

if you aren't willing to do that, then do you really deserve to be in the top ten?

Mesoshort June 12 2009 11:10 PM EDT

It isn't about getting to the top ten, this is about people staying and not up and leaving when their bonus runs out. There have been way too many doing that lately from what I hear. Not getting supportership because CBD is too much, not staying because their bonus is over before they realize how good they have it, etc.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 12 2009 11:16 PM EDT

i stayed with no bonus and no hope of ever catching up, along with many others. now there is hope of catching up and people leave because it isn't easy enough? it kinda boggles my mind.

sometimes i wonder if we just discuss these issues so much that people think, "well if they think it is broken, it must be" and just leave because they see it as hopeless.

again i am not arguing against a rolling bonus, but we used to have a much larger community back when there was little to no chance of catching up with anyone. now we can do that with little dedication and our community is dwindling! have we made it so easy that it is no longer worthwhile?

Fatil1ty June 12 2009 11:19 PM EDT

Please read my recent changes thread. I have consolidated several of the ideas in this thread into that one.

I think the Rolling bonus is TOO drastic a change for now and may unbalance the game as such I made suggestions in that thread as a midway point.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] June 13 2009 1:49 AM EDT

"But what the game requires in the N*B phase... that's _NOT_ dedication... that's simply _OBSESSION_"

I took 3 weeks off during my NUB, like not playing CB at all during those times. Three 1 week periods simply just buying my BA and not fighting at all. That's hardly dedication, let alone obsession. I mean, I know I didn't end up any where near LA, but If I bought two more minions I could easily end up around 3.7M MPR or so, not bad at all, quite competitive.

kevlar June 13 2009 2:09 AM EDT

it's funny... the similair ideas that I have defended in the past I used to get bashed for, now resurface and are discussed like cocoa puffs on planet milk.

Lord Bob June 13 2009 2:15 AM EDT

Three (four?) words: Wider BA rates.

I've been saying it for months now.

The N*B should be obliterated. I have no love for those who have it. I hold them in the same esteem some hold USD sellouts. Kill it off, and quickly.

AdminNightStrike June 13 2009 4:18 AM EDT

...to the cottage?

kronopolous June 13 2009 7:08 AM EDT

An example ns. Read my other thread I think I better articulate myself there.

kronopolous June 13 2009 7:16 AM EDT

Cancel that I won't add yet another yet another thread on the topic. However I will say that allowing cbers to take small breaks from the game is healthy. I think many vets drive to succeed causes them to inevetibely quit when they realize they cannot commit 6months of their lives to a game.

Sickone June 13 2009 8:49 AM EDT

In response to two things in this thread...

1. Yes, the Rolling Bonus would (almost) exclusively affect XP.
For that matter, you can keep the current N*B system as long as an XP-only Rolling Bonus system would kick in immediately after the N*B is over.

2. An alternative would be to have a "pool of missed BA", which would be purchaseable at significantly reduced CB$ prices (at a maximum, they would cost about as much CB$ as the average rewards when fighting at 25% Challenge Bonus).
You could only purchase BA from that "cheap" pool once you have bought out all "regular" daily BA (the expensive ones), and you could only buy one day's worth of natural regeneration BA that way.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] June 13 2009 10:55 AM EDT

And do something about minion cost?

Sickone June 13 2009 11:49 AM EDT

Adding a third option (minimal CB$ cost, for a minion with 0 XP) sounds reasonable...

Solare June 13 2009 11:58 AM EDT

"Hey instead, how about an on/off button on my bonus, so I can turn it on and off depending if I feel like using it, that way I can stretch it out longer. If I happen to leave for a while, I won't waste it.

And that way, maybe that can pave the way for future improvements that involve earning more bonus time for doing something."

Verifex, this is a great idea. All of those suggesting there should be a restriction on this. Why? Why should people be penalized for having to go on periods of no activity because of work or otherwise. By turning the N*B on/off you would still be penalized for not being dedicated, but you wouldn't lose those precious hours of N*B permanently. I personally love the idea. I was very dedicated to the game during my NUB, but there were times when I simply couldn't log on a computer. I missed out on some precious hours occasionally.
I think, unrestricted, this would be a great idea.
You would still miss BA if you were gone, but it wouldn't be N*B BA. You would be penalized, but not harshly so.

On another note, I have no clue as to what a Rolling Bonus is, so I cannot comment on whether it would be a good idea or not. Perhaps someone could explain exactly what it would comprise? I assert it has something to do with making up some BA that is lost when you're not present. If this were the case, the regen could possibly be like 4 BA per 20 mins, or 3 BA per 20 mins, and that, in my opinion, would be acceptable. But I would like clarification.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 13 2009 12:05 PM EDT

in its simplest form a rolling bonus is just a bonus that all would have based on the difference between your mpr and the top mpr. the farther away you are the higher the bonus but as you get closer, the bonus goes down.

it is a way of encouraging more loyalty to older characters rather than just creating new teams.

Fatil1ty June 13 2009 12:05 PM EDT

the rolling bonus varies depending on the suggestion but centres around the idea that allows a person to become inactive and return to their NUB/NCB char. IT might be a set amount of BA per NCB or it might be an off button. In general any suggestion that "rolls forward" the deadline of the bonus.

I still vote for my idea as the most logical. 2-3 halt buttons per run allowing a person to go on week long vacations or weekend breaks. The would have to be used carefully but would allow people to run NCB's and still have some form of life (that is allow people to take vacations while still being competitive)

Solare June 13 2009 12:11 PM EDT

I see. The rolling bonus does sound more fair, and gives more competition to the game. As it is, if FTW didn't go on vacation, there isn't a single person here that would be able to catch up. The closest MPR is King of Pain, who is almost 100k MPR below him.
I like the idea of a rolling bonus if only for that reason.
Obviously there is USD and CBD to take into account for catching up, but MPR does make a huge difference.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 13 2009 12:12 PM EDT

the rolling bonus idea usually has a cap though, say 90 percent of top mpr for example. which is based on what the n*b has had as a goal as well from what we know.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 13 2009 12:14 PM EDT

jon has stated that it won't happen because it promotes laziness though.

i think its biggest downside is just that it would reward crappy strategies.

its biggest benefit though is that it equally rewards vets as well as newbs and would allow you to keep an old team or start a new one and still get to the same stopping point.

Fatil1ty June 13 2009 12:17 PM EDT

K as dudemus describes his definition of the rolling bonus I HATE it. Making new teams is a huge fun part of this game and under that suggestion new teams really don't gain much benefit over existing.

I am vehemently in favour of my suggestion for a halt button.

Fatil1ty June 13 2009 12:18 PM EDT

a huge reason for my thinking is that the implementation of the Rollling bonus is extremely complicated, earth shattering, and has a high potential of unbalancing the game.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 13 2009 12:19 PM EDT

then why not just make it where you pay 100 bucks usd and have a character at 90 percent of the top mpr?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 13 2009 12:23 PM EDT

"that suggestion new teams really don't gain much benefit over existing."

what benefit do vets have now though? you talk like n*b's have it so bad but if you had created a team on 1/1/2005 and fought all of your battles and was only at 70 percent of the top mpr after being passed up by countless n*b's how would you feel?

Solare June 13 2009 12:23 PM EDT

I don't really think it promotes laziness at all. I have no clue as to why anyone would think that. It gives people a fair chance in catching up for lost time and equals the playing field. No one likes to be forever dominated by a single team.
Really, what it does, is promote the better strategy, not the higher PR or MPR. If the strategy is superior, at the same MPR the team with better strategy will ideally win (unless they have an unfortunate weakness to an inferior team). A rolling bonus seems to employ that idea. Laziness? Yes, I suppose you wouldn't have to dedicate as much to 'keep up with Jones's,' but you would still have to dedicate yourself if everyone is receiving the bonus, in order to catch up to another team. So, in the long run, you would still have to be just as dedicated, because everyone would be receiving the bonus, up to a certain point.
Though, I must say, I think the cap should be higher than 90%. Ninety percent of 5 million is still only 4.5 million. 500k MPR is too much to make up. I'd say 95% or 98% would be a better cap. So, if you were at the top, it would still make it very competitive to maintain that top spot. The rolling bonus sounds like the perfect idea to me.
Turning on/off the N*B or other bonuses sounds good too. You could even give a reward upon finishing the N*B within a certain time frame, which would promote people to use it faster.

Solare June 13 2009 12:26 PM EDT

Sorry for the double-post, but I think it should be based on VPR, not MPR, otherwise it would be too easy to exploit.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 13 2009 12:27 PM EDT

turning it off with no limits would actually be fine with me as well. it really has its own built in deterrent to turning it off too much or for too long as the current bonus goes up over time and if you turned it off for very long you would be better off starting with a newer team with the higher bonus.

what you shouldn't be able to do is turn it on and off on a daily basis so you miss no ba whatsoever. so limit the off function to once a month but with no time limit or something similar.

Fatil1ty June 13 2009 12:28 PM EDT

Vets dont' start NCB's mainly because they know that they have to go on vacation in a month or they have exams or they work and need sleep and don't want to wake up every five hours.

If the NCB allowed for breaks and the cost of BA was lowered combined with my idea of allowing BA to accumulate higher in higher regen period many more people would start them because it would be less draining and time consuming to do. The three suggestions I made in my other thread solve the biggest problems with the NCB

Solare June 13 2009 12:33 PM EDT

The only problem I see with having a rolling bonus, is the N*B. I think everyone except the N*B should have the bonus. You could still exploit it so that you turn off the N*B and get the bonus, then turn it back on, however. So obviously there are certain limitations that should be in place. Overall, I think its a good idea.

Honestly, I do like your idea Fatil1ty. Though I do think it should be a limitless function of turning on/off.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 13 2009 12:35 PM EDT

"Vets dont' start NCB's mainly because they know that they have to go on vacation in a month or they have exams or they work and need sleep and don't want to wake up every five hours."

most vets have left actually. of those left, many run ncb's.

this vet has been telling you that he thinks the ncb is fine as is and this is after running one recently.

do you have any data to back up this most vets claim?

Fatil1ty June 13 2009 12:35 PM EDT

I think unlimited leaves too much room for laziness though. I'm not sure how quickly the bonuses go up in value but I doubt it's quick enough to stop somebody from taking advanctage of an unlmited on/off feature. The game should require dedication but I believe CBers deserve a vacation now and then without being penalized

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 13 2009 12:36 PM EDT

i think the most recent rolling bonus idea has everyone getting the rolling bonus for xp and the nub still being in effect but only for the money rewards portion, the xp reward would be determined by the rolling bonus. if i understand correctly.

Fatil1ty June 13 2009 12:38 PM EDT

well I consider myself somewhat of a vet. I know I have no time to sacrifice 6 months to run an NCB. Ranger is another one. He has times mentioned that the inability to commit six months to an NCB combined with the cost of the NCB are big reasons why he doesn't run one. Once you get to 6BA regen the thought of going back to 10 and having to wake up every 5.333 hours instead of 8.888 hours is pretty daunting.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 13 2009 12:40 PM EDT

i started my last ncb in october, it was at 346% i think it is well over 400 percent now though?

QBRanger June 13 2009 1:19 PM EDT

Yes, it is over 400% now.

And the NUB would apply to cash and xp.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] June 13 2009 1:20 PM EDT

Yeah, 402 or 403 or so.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 13 2009 1:25 PM EDT

"And the NUB would apply to cash and xp."

so nub would get rolling bonus and nub xp bonus?

QBRanger June 13 2009 1:27 PM EDT

This was my initial post on the Rolling Bonus.

I have not reread it yet, but the ideas are there:


Solare June 13 2009 1:33 PM EDT

"so nub would get rolling bonus and nub xp bonus?"

Yeah, dudemus, that would be a problem if it were the case. Which is why I suggested only non-N*B characters could/should get the bonus.
N*B's would grow too fast, and if there were an off/on switch, it would be too easy to exploit.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 13 2009 1:33 PM EDT

so take nub money down from its current 400 percent bonus to 100 percent bonus?

also if the cap is 100 percent bonus, then it would take two years to get where you can get now with a six month ncb?

i apologize if you have a revised plan somewhere later in that thread but i would post it here if so...i just read the initial post.

QBRanger June 13 2009 1:36 PM EDT

I would modify it as such:

Just in the prelim stages.

Keep the NUB and NCB as they are.

All characters except the very top one not on the N*B get the rolling bonus. As stated in the first thread.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 13 2009 1:37 PM EDT

we had other threads before that where we had some great ideas. i was under the impression though that what most agreed on was having all xp bonuses switched to the rolling bonus. the nub cash bonus would still work exactly as it does now and they would still get free ba.

i can get behind that. we had also talked about scaling the bonus so that it still only takes about six months to get to around 80-90 percent of top mpr but longer to go higher.

capping it at 100 would be a mistake in my opinion, especially given that people can get 400 now.

QBRanger June 13 2009 1:38 PM EDT

Dude, I think you posted as I was posting, what about my idea just before yours?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 13 2009 1:42 PM EDT

that should be fine, but i still think that 100 percent cap may take too much time. imagine someone coming back to a 800k mpr team and wanting to keep that one.

i would suggest your last idea, but with a sliding scale of rewards based on how far you are from the top capping at the same bonus amount as the n*b, but diminishing as you hit different regen rates or something.

QBRanger June 13 2009 1:45 PM EDT


That sound great as well.

Just something to make playing older characters, that have plenty of history fun and possibly competitive after time.

Right now with the NUB you get 6 months and then your done. I would like to see a constant bonus to let everyone get a chance.

I really believe that it would promote the game and help retention.

And I have believed this even when I had the top character. So this is not for my personal gain. <---- Ranger Disclaimer!!

QBOddBird June 14 2009 2:43 AM EDT

I don't care how it's implemented or what the hell you call it, I just want to see something implemented that

1) Doesn't force NUBs to grasp the game and dedicate themselves wholly to it within the first day/week in order to have a chance
2) Doesn't promote this STUPID concept of "throwaway teams." God, I hate it so much.

QBOddBird June 14 2009 2:58 AM EDT

Better yet, I'd just like to see an answer for this:

Why are we using such a retarded bonus system in the first place?

It's perpetually rising as long as the game lives, which leads to a bonus that shoots newbies up faster than they can adjust - the only way to lower the bonus being a temporary solution, increasing its duration.

It encourages sellouts by giving massive cash rewards in a very limited timespan while offers to purchase CBD for USD are easily visible in the FS/WTB market. By that same token, it encourages players to take the multi risk due to the high reward of staying under the radar.

It discourages any sort of dedication to a given team, as any vacation or missed time causes a loss in MPR that cannot be made up due to the very nature of the bonus - it is adjusting for the uppermost MPR, so you can only hope to suck up your loss and continue to break even in the MPR race. Increasing your tattoo size beyond the norm is possible via the N*B and thus it also encourages disposable teams in this manner - this also makes almost any given team LESS valuable.

It's downright stupid. No offense meant, or maybe just a little offense is intended, but why would ANYONE continue such a blatantly broken system when multiple solutions are consistently offered? Is it sheer stubbornness because time was spent creating the idiotic system? I'd really like to know, because I cannot for the life of me figure it out.

Dark Dreky June 14 2009 4:15 AM EDT

Definitely a little over the top, OB. Simmer down a bit.

However, I see your point, and I agree with you. NUB definitely encourages multi's and is adversely effecting CB.

I'm not sure if a rolling bonus is the solution though.

QBOddBird June 14 2009 11:26 AM EDT

Like I said, I don't care how you implement it or what you call it, I just want to see an acceptable system put into play. It doesn't have to be the rolling bonus, there have been dozens of various alternative solutions proposed throughout these sort of threads.

It's not like the alternatives aren't there. It's just up to the guy coding the game whether or not he wants to replace the crappy N*B, and so far that's a no. Granted, maybe he's behind the scenes working on a replacement for it or coming up with an alternative solution of his own...but give us a heads up or something, Jon, 'cuz right now it's just been modifications to this broken system and some of us are losing hope that you'll replace it with something that works!


Zenai [Ministry of Pain] June 14 2009 11:41 AM EDT

Ok Cleaned up from another post and brought here since this seems to be the right place for it to be:

I would make the NUBs do a partial pay for their BA say 10% or 20% or have it rolling to increase by MPR or Regen rate, personally I think that would help them to understand the concept of BA Acquisition and usher them towards actual game play after the NUB. It would also keep them from having the it should all be free attitude I have seen some of them have. Many stop and leave right after(or just before) their NUB finishes why because they get the slap in the face of I have to pay. Why when I should get it free is the attitude thrown back. In my honest opinion it fosters the wrong idea.

They do not see it the way we do. We Click "Get More" and have to pay per BA "WE" see a price, they click "Get More" and it is a one button push to get it accumulated automatically, they do not "See" a price per BA. Because of this to them it "IS FREE", make it to where they see it is my point. Cut off this "Invisible Barrier" that only us "Vets" can see, the NUBs can hear us talk about it all day and still not truly get it. Give them their entire bonus on the same curve to be used with the BA Costs. If it was set per Regen Times or MPR(Rolling like we have) the % of cost for BA for them goes up in essence still free but they "SEE" it and understand it better. Plus they get to choose whether they want the CBD or the BA just like us, doing it strictly by a "Rolling" percentage would help solve the problem of sellouts. Make it more like actual game play, and gear it to go more and more realistic so the "Drop-off" after the NUB is not so drastic to them. Bottom line take the veil off, I think this will cause a higher retention rate to occur.

Disclaimer: I understand that "Retention" is relative. If they are going to sell out they will do it anyway no matter what is done on this side of the equation. A sellout in 6 months is no better than a sellout in 2 months with the exception that we know sooner. I often know within the first few days of playing a game if I am going to sell out or not plain and simple. On the other hand I often know I will stay in a game within the first few days.

Either way I believe fostering the right idea is key in retaining NUBs that actually want to play this game. With the NUB the way it is now most feel like it is a front, and honestly it is. Working towards actual gameplay should be the aim. As it is now the aim seems to be "Here you go little guy." for 6 Months. Then BAM! ok your grown get out into the "Real" CB world! For some that is just too drastic of a change and not a fair representation of, or giving justice to the real game. I understand the need for the NUB System and I agree with the original idea, I simply think it needs to be tweaked these are my thoughts on those tweaks.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 14 2009 11:45 AM EDT

we have already done the nubs pay for ba and due to the problems it caused we now have the current system. i doubt jon would revert back to it.

i would think the bigger system shock would come from 400 percent bonus to no bonus.

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] June 14 2009 11:50 AM EDT

Which is why I stated what I did dudemus, it is the dropoff that causes such a big problem. I know it is long but did you read the entire post?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 14 2009 11:59 AM EDT

i did. it still seems like a very complex system to code for something that, at least in my mind, is not that much of a problem.

if you could somehow post data on retention of nubs going down after the free ba was implemented, then i would be convinced. until that link can be shown though i wouldn't count on dev time being used to fix something that may or may not be broken.

perhaps we just need a way for people to delete their account which would spawn an "exit survey" to find out exactly why people are leaving?

PearsonTritonRaveshaw June 14 2009 1:23 PM EDT

I don't see the point in someone having to dedicate a good portion of their life to a game they just joined and know almost nothing about.

BootyGod June 14 2009 1:40 PM EDT

To this day I think it would be better if new players simply, just.... SIMPLY were given their first week without a bonus, then moved to their NUB. I mean, dang, right now any players who does well their first week is considered a multi. For darn good reason.

"Hey, this game could be sorta fun.... Time to dedicate the next 6 months of my life and 300 USD to it. GOGOGOGO." Who thinks like that?

Give the legit players a chance to find their feet.

OH, and move the N*B make to 4 months. At least then a week of vacation didn't cost half a year (Yeah, a third of a year still sucks, but it's at least not quite as terrifying).

QBRanger June 14 2009 2:13 PM EDT

It used to be 4 months, until it go so high where it needed to be stretched to 6 months.

And even then some people still feel that is too short, given CB has been active over 4+ years.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 14 2009 7:55 PM EDT

"It's perpetually rising as long as the game lives"

We should not forget one fundamental flaw with CB growth.

The larger you get, the faster you grow.

Which means that for every Bonus users that manages to break past that 95% and Take the top spot has also now just ramped up the ever increasing growth of the game.

How long before we get a bonus large enough to get us to 500K MPR in the first week? A Million?

QBRanger June 14 2009 8:12 PM EDT

The only way N*B users have overtaken the top MPR is by buying minions.

And we have reached the point where that option is too expensive, considering all the NW one can put into items at that amount of CB.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 14 2009 8:29 PM EDT

It's possible to do so by putting in more effort than the top spot.

Maybe not liekly, but still possible.

All this does is lead to an ever increasing game, where a smaller character has no hope of catching a larger, even with more effort, as the larger simply grow faster than the smaller (especially at the fight donw penalty border).

Without an external bonus of some kind of course.

But then the bonuses just exaserbate the underlying problem.

Why it wasn't really noticed in CB1 or the start of CB2 was that larger characters naturally grew slower anyway, as the XP cost curved and increased. Limiting the growth you had from your ever increasing rewards.

When the system changed to flat XP increases (which was needed), the rewards system didn't change to compensate.

So the large just grow larger, and cannot be caught by the smaller with anything near 'equivalent' effort.

chuck1234 June 14 2009 10:40 PM EDT

My original CB2 NUB character Starun has attained the HUGE milestone of 1 mil MPR for the very FIRST time ever. That's because of constant strat changes and untrain/retrain cycles, and NUB inexperience. Btw, my MTL is 1.8 mil, so maybe the real MPR should've been around 1.4 mil.

Whatever, I totally agree with Ranger, playing old characters is real fun. And a Rolling Bonus will go a long way in making Starun competitive. Else I don't see how I can get anyplace within sniffing range of the lower tier of top characters even after 10 years of gameplay :)

Fatil1ty June 14 2009 10:42 PM EDT

Before we go implemeting a complicated Rolling bonus system why not improve the NCB system.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 14 2009 11:40 PM EDT

the n*b bonuses have many flaws, not the least of which is that the time bonus gets too big for the time frame and people start growing faster than they can change their fightlist. this forces dev intervention and lengthening of the bonus time in order to alleviate the issue.

as the game progresses more time will have to be dedicated to catch up. a rolling bonus will not require intervention once it is set up and should allow users more ease in maintaining a challenge bonus without having to edit the fight list so often. of course that does mean a longer time to catch up.

QBOddBird June 15 2009 12:19 AM EDT

Exactly, dudemus. I can't for the life of me figure out why a solution hasn't been implemented for that very problem. We're going to have a 500% bonus in a couple months, and that's _after_ a time extension.
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