What's your favourite char? (in General)
July 13 2009 6:38 AM EDT
What's your favourite team in CB? Who has your favourite strategy going on?
I'm particularly fond of Nem's Mr Jiggy, a) because it makes complete mincemeat of my own tank, and b) because it's a nice to see the Jig still working out famously after all this time.
"see the Jig still working out famously after all this time."
there is a known bug with evasion stacking giving more than it should when junctioning uc to a jiggy though. let's not take exploitation of that bug to mean the jiggy is fine.
July 13 2009 9:48 AM EDT
Is that bug still 'valid' Dude? Because it's not on the known issues page any longer.
that bug will not be fixed it appears, at least until someone exploits it enough to matter.
if i understand correctly, you get the minions evasion effect junctioned over in addition to the familiars total evasion effect based on junctioned uc.
July 13 2009 1:05 PM EDT
From what NS said (including in your linked thread), it isn't a bug, that's how it is supposed to work.\
Don't call it bug exploitation when there's not a bug there.
No offense OB, but I considered those who used the old exbow on an enchanter to be exploiting it, and that wasn't a bug either.
Also, I believe you were mistaken OB.
AdminNightStrike May 20 3:17 PM EDT
The fact that you don't lose much Evasion is the *actual* bug that we can't easily fix. Right now, there's no excessive evasion granted. If that changes in the wild, then we'll have to find a better fix. Just be forewarned -- getting that much evasion isn't by design. You're getting the benefits of evasion coming over one time too many, and right now, it's too hard to stop that without breaking DB. Don't be surprised when/if that drops.
July 13 2009 1:10 PM EDT
No offense Artemis, but I think you know quite well that the two examples used aren't even in the same league.
Bowling balls and gumballs are both balls, so you can go bowling with both!
July 13 2009 1:11 PM EDT
Read your quote.
"Right now, there's no excessive evasion granted."
the right now came before mr. jiggy was created though, so where is the threshold where it becomes exploitative? could it possibly be where someone starts using it to fight above where they could without the bug?
i truly do not know where it becomes overpowered, but a good guess would be that since it grants more evasion than intended it would be exploiting if he is able to fight up against physical damage types only. if he is getting his high score from non-physical teams then i apologize for assuming he was making use of something in a manner other than intended.
Hmmm maybe NS misspoke because it is granting too much evasion. Try reading more than the first sentence OB "getting that much evasion isn't by design. You're getting the benefits of evasion coming over one time too many." It's definitely a bug, and like dudemus said it's hard to be fixed, and probably won't be fixed until someone exploits it enough. Of course it's not quite as bad as the exbow, but still a bug and still comparable. Apples and oranges are both fruit OB...
just to clarify, mr. jiggy was created before that post by nightstrike. he did not use junction uc until after that though. none of us could.
perhaps i should make my new ncb a single minion and just train uc and junction that over? ; )
July 13 2009 1:21 PM EDT
Nah, it's definitely designed as a physical team counter. EC + two UC minions evading and a PL wall to absorb hits; it is a specialist strategy, so determining OP-ness would be that much more difficult.
Still OB, broke is broke. If you want the math for why it's broke, as dudemus or go read his old posts.
Oh and FYI "Block cast Ethereal Chains on all enemy Minions (31)"
July 13 2009 1:26 PM EDT
mmm, the EC is just an enchanter EC.
July 13 2009 1:30 PM EDT
I've read it before. Dudemus' issue is that he thinks it is more appropriate for the UC evasion to add differently than what NS thinks is appropriate. Dudemus wants to use the trained level, that's not the way it was done.
"Basically, the JKF gets evasion from his new higher level of UC. He also gets evasion junctioned over from what the minion has from his own UC. That's a confusing sentence, so read it twice. I guess I should use less pronouns.
So the JKF gets a nice buff. Cool."
I'm assuming that is what you feel is the bug; it was done on purpose. That's the way it should work.
July 13 2009 1:30 PM EDT
so it isn't giving "more than it should." It is giving "the amount NS programmed it to give."
"so determining OP-ness would be that much more difficult."
we can figure out what his evasion should be and how much "free" xp he is then getting from the bug that we cannot call a bug. at the upper ends of the evasion scale it would likely be impressive. since it is all totally "free" xp at that point though, what more proof do you need?
"I've read it before. Dudemus' issue is that he thinks it is more appropriate for the UC evasion to add differently than what NS thinks is appropriate. Dudemus wants to use the trained level, that's not the way it was done"
two different issues entirely ob. the one you are referring to is with junctioned evasion. you do need to read it again if you are still thinking that i am discussing that at all!
i am not by any means saying nem is a bad person, vile or despicable. when the issue was not fixed originally i think we all knew that it would then take someone exploiting it to get it fixed. where you draw that line is up to you, but in my mind this is all part of the process to get it "fixed better."
maybe i should do my single minion junctioned uc ncb run! :)
July 13 2009 1:47 PM EDT
Someone "exploiting" it would definitely be what it took. I don't see it as an exploit, just a bonus for the JKF that it gets a UC bonus from someone junctioning UC rather than choosing a different skill to junction.
However, if you feel you can prove that it is exploitable then by all means you definitely should run that NCB.
"Right now, there's no excessive evasion granted. If that changes in the wild, then we'll have to find a better fix."
that is the key statement right there in my mind. the question is when is it excessive and who decides?
July 13 2009 1:52 PM EDT
Would it be inappropriate for the programmer who designed the stacking method to decide when it was excessive and when it was reasonable?
July 13 2009 1:52 PM EDT
All this random posting, is totally off topic of the original post.
/slaps all around
July 13 2009 1:55 PM EDT
My favorite team is Nem's Mr Jiggy, because it is controversial and provides discussion content for this thread.
Yay, now we're back on topic, Jen ;)
i think we may be moving the discussion to its own thread, sorry for the hijack.
my favorite team at the moment is also mr. jiggy! ; )
My favorite is Single Minion, because I love huge single minions XD.
July 13 2009 2:06 PM EDT
Mr. Jiggy beats me also...
I wanted to be the one to use a Jig well =/
You win sir...
July 13 2009 2:14 PM EDT
(sorry Nem, I didn't mean for this particular discussion to take place...!!)
Hehe, its nice to know that people like my strat. I suppose it is kind of controversial too. Just so you know I was actually the one who was testing the evasion junction with the JKF because this was my setup before it was fixed at all when the minion evasion replaced JKF evasion.
I have about 40% of my total mpr trained into UC getting junctioned over so I suppose that I am exploiting this to almost its max potential. I get something like an extra 16 evasion effect from it. It is a good amount but not really game changing. Without the extra evasion I wouldn't lose anyone from my fight list but I would be a good bit farther from catching those top tanks.
how much free xp is that 16 evasion gaining you where you are at on the evasion curve?
I have 193 evasion and without the junction over I would have about 177 evasion. Just so you know a single minion UC junction wouldn't work because those large tanks still get in 1 hit a round most of the time and without a significant HP backup he will die in a couple hits.
July 13 2009 3:01 PM EDT
I liked Conundrum when it was a 2-minion character.
there is actually a threshold, not too far away from where you are at where even the big tanks cannot really hit still. i had reached it at several points with bugs as well.
I could care less about team strategies. It's a team's ''personality'' that sticks with me. I tend to remember teams who kick the crap out of me with regularity. Some of them seem to own every one of my teams, probably because I am not original or something. It's been a while since I've fought them, but Miami Vice and Elven Kings were always two of my favorites. They were those I wanted to beat, some kind of rite of passage on CB :)
IIRC, Miandrital also had a couple characters that became my personal enemies...
Also, nice themed teams (woah) like Shade's are always nice to fight. Or Freed's...his items always had cool names :)
Fav char - NWO, fav strategy going on - havn't looked around much lately but priestess of the moon is cool.
On topic I really like Failure.
Gotta give PoisoN his props.
July 13 2009 4:20 PM EDT
The 2 characters that are the most intriguing to me are:
Priestess of the Moon.
King of Pain.
Both however use the RBF with its multifaceted abilities.
The third is Rawr's character, using the RoS with very high AS/GA.
July 13 2009 4:21 PM EDT
Bast - Dixie Cousins - Nice setup.
July 13 2009 4:22 PM EDT
My favorite is in two. My favorite is Koy - always. My second fave is my cb1 char with the big exbow - no-one could kill him unless I attacked and then I died as there was a bug.
July 13 2009 6:41 PM EDT
My favorite is Priestess of the Moon.
July 13 2009 6:41 PM EDT
Then Hubbell for being the butt of all DM jokes.
My favorite is my own, because I made it myself. :)
Other than that, my favorite character is Eliteofdelete's Zangy. Except when he puts on his good weapons and can beat me. :(
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