Bounty: $50k for making the clan disband! (in Contests)


AdminShade October 25 2009 11:27 AM EDT

According to the wiki a clan will disband when it's weekly net score is -1000 or less. For a long while I have been annoyed with the large amount of useless clans so I am trying to influence the natural decrease a bit by providing a nice bounty.

The bounty: the conditions

The bounty which will be earned is 50k for the person or persons which make the clan disband which I will post in a list below, which will be updated whenever I can.
The prize will only be awarded when the following 2 conditions have been met:
  • You provide me proof of the clan being fought by you and having a weekly net score lower than -1000.
  • The clan has to actually be disbanded. This can be checked easily because a disbanded clan does not exist any more. Selecting it will generate a similar error page like this one.
  • The third condition is a logical one, to be able to drain clan points, you would need to be in a clan yourself also. ;)

  • Earning the reward

    You become eligible for the reward, or part of the reward if you remove more than 50 net score from the clan when it will be disbanded.

    Every fight you win against a character of the clan, will remove 2 clan point from them. So in total, 500 battles would be required providing the clan does not generate any positive points itself. I am pretty sure though, that the clans I provide you with do not do such thing.

    In case multiple players are generating negative score, the bounty will be split accordingly to the amount of score which each player drains.

    Brakke Bres [Ow man] October 25 2009 12:35 PM EDT

    Why not delete these inactive clans?

    Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 25 2009 12:37 PM EDT

    i hate to see any clans deleted or contested out of existence, remember that the number of clans receiving a bonus is dependent upon the number of clans that exist!

    AdminShade October 25 2009 12:43 PM EDT

    Henk: Very simple, I am not allowed to delete the clans.

    dudemus: you have a valid point, however I find it too easy for a clan to simply gain a bonus. I want to try and make clan fighting a more prominent and moreover a more _alive_ thing than it is now.

    Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 25 2009 12:51 PM EDT

    "I want to try and make clan fighting a more prominent and moreover a more _alive_ thing than it is now."

    while that is a noble goal, what proof do you have that making it more difficult to get a bonus would accomplish this?

    also, after running two ncb's in the last 16 months or so i would hate to see less clan targets spread throughout the ranks. if people moving up cannot find targets and thus get kicked out of clans due to negative scores, how does that make clans more alive?

    Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] October 25 2009 12:52 PM EDT

    I'm going to have to agree with dudemus on this one.

    AdminShade October 25 2009 12:57 PM EDT

    This would perhaps encourage players to try for the #1 clan a bit more than currently.



    Gaining clan points from really small targets with a NCB is quite nice of course. The thing you forget though is that the targets I'm providing are inactive players, which do not move up the rank at all.

    Additionally, these clan targets are really not worth fighting for the experience obviously, otherwise they would have long gone because of the negative points.

    Also, when you run a new NCB, do you fight for the highest score you can or do you stick with puny clan targets? I myself would very much want to get the most experience possible instead. You don't get that from these targets, ever...

    Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 25 2009 1:08 PM EDT

    i try to maximize my challenge bonus within clan targets and if the challenge bonus is low enough i supplement with some non-clan targets. if i solely focus on challenge bonus, my clan points go negative and i have to swap out my ncb or leave my clan altogether which in fact discourages clan fighting.

    once again, how does making it harder to get a clan bonus and making it more difficult to stay in a clan going to make them more competitive rather than having the opposite effect?

    i do think you are right about looking for a solution, but you have to look at things you do for the top levels of clan fighting and how they might affect the lower levels. in my experience, the reason the top clans are always at the top is due to the fact that fewer opponents can beat them and often times the ones that can are in the clan with them.

    coming up with a solution for those scenarios would be where we need to start in my humble opinion without changing the lower clan fighting model as it seems pretty competitive.

    Wasp [Demon Forging] October 25 2009 1:12 PM EDT

    This has got to be the worst thing ever. If a load of useless clans disband then the total number of clans decreases. This will then cause a smaller amount of clans receiving a bonus. So that will mean clans will usually stay like they are on a Monday morning as opposed to getting more as the day continues.

    AdminShade October 25 2009 1:41 PM EDT

    I have to agree that this will make less clans gain a bonus. These is nothing I can say which would make someone think otherwise. This however should encourage clans to fight more to gain the bonus.

    You say you would have a bit harder time getting a clan bonus while starting a new character (NUB, NCB or hardcore). However, this will make higher MPR characters worth more because they can compete. This should somehow discourage players from starting over again and again.

    You also say that you supplement your fight list with non clan targets, you also gain clan points for them, albeit half of it (2 instead of 4). Should that be a problem? You are able to fight 66% more fights than a 6/20 character. You will soon enough get to the ranks in which you will find more attractive clan characters.

    If you have a NCB, create a clan and get some more NCB/NUB players in it and own the rankings, it's been done before. Then this entirely does not affect you, or much less.



    As for finding a solution towards the top levels of clan fighting... I think that I am unable to come up with any solution for this, neither would anyone else I think.

    Ultimately, we would all want to have a 15% Clan Bonus without any effort. True or not? I say this is very true for most people.




    But really, for the effect and fun of it to try, removing these 5 clans (being 1% of the total) will do what exactly?

    Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 25 2009 2:14 PM EDT

    since they will never return, it is permanently removing the bonus for some active clan if it is rounded like most things in cb.

    "These clans I want disbanded, the sooner the better. When a clan is disbanded, I will mark it on the list and will provide with new targets until my money runs out."

    it also sounded like you weren't limiting this to just five.

    i still think the better question is how do you think removing bonuses from active clans will make clans more competitive. i deeply feel that the opposite is true. the more clans we have making a bonus, the more people will stay in clans and thus the more competition we will have.

    do you not remember what it was like when the threshold for clans being disbanded was lower? total clan participation was much less than today even though our population was much greater.

    AdminShade October 25 2009 2:20 PM EDT

    it also sounded like you weren't limiting this to just five.

    I can always limit it to just 5 and have the whole world of CB wait and see if it actually is noticed.



    the more clans we have making a bonus, the more people will stay in clans and thus the more competition we will have.

    Situation: 1000 clans, everyone have a good bonus: who cares for that 0.1%?
    Situation: 200 clans, only a handful have a good bonus: everyone cares for that bonus.



    But, perhaps the clan bonuses shouldn't be equally-spaced but have a slope instead.

    i.e. bonus difference getting more towards #1, or getting less towards #1.

    Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 25 2009 2:41 PM EDT

    a bonus curve would be a better solution in my mind but it still doesn't address the fact that caring about the bonus does not equate to being able to do a darn thing about it with regards to taking points away from the top clans.

    {Wookie}-Jir.Vr- October 25 2009 4:29 PM EDT

    NCB characters are at a huge disadvantage when it comes to clans due to the extremely high cost of BA... Not everyone has 300m to drop on a NCB run, and without 300m a NCBs scores are not going to be very competitive. NUBS get free BA and established character's BA is pretty cheap.

    I feel by killing off clans you're going to make things for anything other than #1 ugly, and anyone trying for the top 3 is going to boot any NCB simply because they can't produce the scores needed.

    AdminShade October 25 2009 5:38 PM EDT

    That would make running NCB's far less attractive indeed. Perhaps even as unattractive as they ones were designed to be.



    I shall cease this attempts to restore what should be, but beware that the entire clan system is utterly broken because of this and that every player should be thankful that our community is so lazy at keeping it that way.

    Wraithlin October 25 2009 5:45 PM EDT

    Wow, mess with the little guy proposition, awesome. Right now i have around 5 clan targets even near my score. Three lower and 2 that are actually giving me an alright bonus, the only reason i still hit the lower guys is to make sure my clan stays in the black. My clan is just my 2 brothers and I, we are all around 300K-400K MPR, and about the best we do is 6-7th place, usually more in the 11-12th place. If you lower the number of clans significantly with your war on inactives then we get alot less if any clan bonus, because you don't care at all about how many targets and what level the clan members are, just the fact that you are indead a clan. Personally I hope nobody takes you up on your offer so that my clan doesn't lose it's bonus.

    AdminShade October 25 2009 5:53 PM EDT

    If you have paid attention you would have heard me saying the offers are off.



    however:

    "we are all around 300K-400K MPR, and about the best we do is 6-7th place, usually more in the 11-12th place."

    The fact that it's just the 3 of you doesn't make my hunt going to lose your bonus, the lack of players does so nicely already. You'd just have to accept more players, perhaps some of which are NCB themselves.

    QBJohnnywas October 26 2009 4:36 AM EDT

    I can see what you were intending here Shade, and you're right things aren't probably what they should be. But without a larger player base we aren't going to see things working as they should.

    There simply are not enough active players lower down.

    Sickone October 26 2009 5:40 AM EDT

    Actually, this would do next to nothing.
    The bonus is for the top 25% clans with NON-ZERO clan points, with the added clause that you have to have a positive score to qualify... so if people in clans would refrain from attacking any targets in clans with no points whatsoever, those clans would not matter at all.

    {Wookie}-Jir.Vr- October 26 2009 6:09 AM EDT

    Shade, I wasn't trying to discourage you. I was just pointing something out that I thought you might not have taken into consideration.

    Me personally, I'm all for making the clan system more competitive, but that is due mostly to my own confidence in my clan-mates than anything else.

    Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 26 2009 10:08 AM EDT

    "The bonus is for the top 25% clans with NON-ZERO clan points,"

    linky please, i remember it being total clans and the wiki also says that.

    Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 26 2009 10:10 AM EDT

    correction, in the clans section it says total clans whereas in the clan bonus section it does say with a non-zero score but you edited that page sickone. where did you get your original data as i remember it being total existing clans?

    Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 26 2009 10:13 AM EDT

    as of this post, there were 56 clans showing on the standard page, 14 were getting a bonus. however, there were only 47 with a positive, non-zero score.

    Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 26 2009 10:22 AM EDT

    ok, i misunderstood i think. to get the bonus you need to be in the top 25% of all existing clans, but you have to have a positive, non-zero score. this is the way i understand it. which means deleting any clans will mean that fewer will get the bonus.

    RaptorX October 26 2009 10:48 AM EDT

    Let's make some extra clans in the middle!! :) You know in the 44k MPR to 2 Mill MPR range. That way when I look for more clan members to fight, it won't always be blank! (OK I have 3 on there right now a few really high, and a few really a lot lower than I am. J/K. Maybe the Admins could make us some stepping stone clans! Seriously though, the clans used to have a lot more middle ranged teams.

    Sickone October 26 2009 11:13 AM EDT

    "correction, in the clans section it says total clans whereas in the clan bonus section it does say with a non-zero score but you edited that page sickone. where did you get your original data as i remember it being total existing clans? "


    Actually, I should have said "non-null" score, or better yet "clans involved in fighting in the past 24 hours"... they can have a score of zero if they have some positive points alongside the same amount of negative points - any clan member having attacked anybody else or anybody else having been attacked any clan member is enough to make them register.

    If it would be "total existing clans", then the maximum number of clans getting a bonus at all would not change much at all from late Saturday to Monday afternoon - all they'd need to do would be to get a positive score, and they'd get a bonus.
    Right now, about 10 minutes after the hour tick, there's 64 clans in the clan page (out of god knows how many in total), and only the top 16 get a bonus (16 / 0.9% and 17 / 0%) - that's exactly 1/4 of 64 (just like when you wrote before it was 14 out of 54, again 1/4 of it). 53 out of 64 have a positive score, 2 have a total zero score but it's from having stuff like "+8/-8->0", and 9 with a negative score.

    Sickone October 26 2009 11:25 AM EDT

    Clarified wiki entry.

    P.S. Jon (or whoever else has the rights to) could change this rule to "top 25% of clans with strictly positive clan points", and then the existance of idle/inactive clans would not matter one bit at all.

    Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 26 2009 12:25 PM EDT

    yes, non-null clans is better wording and goes along with what i was saying.

    i do agree that if jon or ns wants this to behave differently, they are the ones with the power to adjust the cutoff.

    AdminShade October 26 2009 12:37 PM EDT

    Sickone 1: '...The bonus is for the top 25% clans with NON-ZERO clan points...'

    I think we've found out that it is indeed for the top 25% of those clans. But the scores are based on all clans.



    RaptorX: How do you intend to 'let's make'? You can't make a clan and leave a character in it while fighting with your other character in another clan. Also, making a multi for this is highly forbidden.



    Sickone 2: '...Right now, about 10 minutes after the hour tick, there's 64 clans in the clan page (out of god knows how many in total)...'

    Actually, this would make me god since I count all the clans based on the clan stats for 1 week.



    Sickone 3: "...P.S. Jon could change this rule..."

    Jonathan and NightStrike are the only 2 people who could do such a thing. And I don't know if they would 'want' to do this.

    Also this would not solve anything because the score bonus sloping would still be based on all clans instead of 'participating' clans and all it would take for someone is search a clan and fight 1 character from it to get a work-around.
    This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002udg">Bounty: $50k for making the clan disband!</a>