Just Throwing Out Another Idea (in General)


AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] October 29 2009 11:25 PM EDT

Just thinking about a new tattoo idea. This one I would call Tattoo of Vitality and all it does is add HP to the wearer. I am guessing somewhere around 80%-tattoo level in HP added would be good. It might enable a few good new strats to be made and can be used equally by both tanks and mages.

Wraithlin October 29 2009 11:32 PM EDT

Or maybe lower it to like 50% and give it a regen % that increases with tatoo size. Let it regen to your trained HP + HP gained from this tatoo, and have the percentage only pass the trollskin at very high levels. So mages can be regenerators and not just tanks.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] October 29 2009 11:34 PM EDT

...and then get rid of TSA regen and make it regenerate STR!

Wraithlin October 29 2009 11:35 PM EDT

It would be blasphemous to have armor called Trollskin and not have it regen HP.

Wraithlin October 29 2009 11:39 PM EDT

While we are suggesting Items:

Impervious Plate Mail: Base AC: 32.
Special: Reduces Stat drain against you by 0.75% per enchantment bonus.

Zenai October 30 2009 12:02 AM EDT

That is interesting Wraithlin......I think though most Tanks could use it and most Archers could not.....which if you notice are the one's complaining the most about the Stat draining weapons due to lack of AC(and HP) in their Strats.

Wraithlin October 30 2009 12:12 AM EDT

What about switching it to something like a:
Leather Chestguard of the Warrior.
Base AC: 15, special 0.75% reduction in stat drain and 0.5% bonus to skills per enchantment.

0% Dx and Skill reduction.

Just make it lighter armor so the archers still can use it.

Demigod October 30 2009 12:14 AM EDT

ToA tanks wouldn't be able to do that.

Demigod October 30 2009 12:16 AM EDT

And then I read the rest of the thread. Feel free to ignore my previous post.

Merrit October 30 2009 1:00 AM EDT

People keep posting about TSA possibly regening STR. However, if an item does end up regening str it should regen a % of the missing str say 1-2% per enchantment so if you have say a million max and are reduced to 0 with a 20% you will regen 200,000 that round but if you are only reduced to 800,000 you are only going to regen 40,000 that round. In this way having a high str and a high + on this item to be could help fight off stat draining since it gets a stronger and stronger regen as you are drained until the drain equals out with the regen. haveing a flat 3% or any flat amount of total stat regen like TSA is for health just wouldn't work out well for this.

Rawr October 30 2009 1:36 AM EDT

"That is interesting Wraithlin......I think though most Tanks could use it and most Archers could not.....which if you notice are the one's complaining the most about the Stat draining weapons due to lack of AC(and HP) in their Strats."

Why can't archers use it?

TheHatchetman October 30 2009 2:02 AM EDT

"It would be blasphemous to have armor called Trollskin and not have it regen HP. "

Trolls, in lore, are known to regenerate. But not necessarily their vitality so much as their ability. But it's not necessarily the vitality of the troll that is recovered, why not it's strength? Four arrows in it's arm and it still swings it's weapon with full strength ~_^


"I think though most Tanks could use it and most Archers could not.....which if you notice are the one's complaining the most about the Stat draining weapons due to lack of AC(and HP) in their Strats."

I think most Exbow users defend it's ability due to it being the "only" way to defend against the massive archers in existence (aside from AC, ToE, PL, EC, Evasion, and other stuff they don't feel like using)...

RaptorX October 30 2009 3:57 AM EDT

So just nerf the Exbow to only drain at max 1/5 ST per hit. (and maybe have it's effect only work for 5 rounds or so, like a confusion drug) , And then we can have fun making up other items like Elven headgear, Invisibility cloak - granting evasion or AoI type cloaking for at least 5 rounds, and other hooked weapons too. and making BL more powerful than archery or whatever will help melee tanks come back into existence. :)

TheHatchetman October 30 2009 4:49 AM EDT

People just need to learn how to make a sandwhich... A melee tank is a cheesesteak... Armor and weapons are it's beef and cheese. You don't need lettuce (stat boosts) and tomatoes (regen), cuz even though they may go great with most sandwiches, the cheesesteak's awesomeness is very much brought down by their presence... Just beef... and cheese... Though if you must add something, mushrooms (SS) and onions (VA) work well, if you're into that sorta thing...

But don't listen to me... it's almost 5am... I'm tired, and I've had a few to drink...

Adminedyit October 30 2009 5:27 AM EDT

mmm i like the food analogy ;8^)

QBJohnnywas October 30 2009 6:28 AM EDT

I might just eat my tank.

Messbrutal October 30 2009 7:18 AM EDT


Amazing analogy Hatchy and I feel you should be rewarded for that so here it goes.

Messbrutal (Xanthan) 76.67.210.114 TheHatchetman (not my NCB) $25000 7:17 AM EDT

Brakke Bres [Ow man] October 30 2009 8:25 AM EDT

"Nemerizt October 29 11:25 PM EDT
Just thinking about a new tattoo idea. This one I would call Tattoo of Vitality and all it does is add HP to the wearer. I am guessing somewhere around 80%-tattoo level in HP added would be good. It might enable a few good new strats to be made and can be used equally by both tanks and mages."

I'll do a Jon remark: Nothing that AC doesn't add.

QBJohnnywas October 30 2009 8:35 AM EDT

Actually in effect, to a degree, it would be the old ToE. After all damage reduction IS extra HP.

Wraithlin October 30 2009 8:39 AM EDT

The problem is that damage reduction is hard to do against every source. The only thing that reduces against all sources is magical AC, and that gets expensive. This tattoo would be alot cheaper, which isn't unbalanced because it also makes you susceptable to decay, as well as allowing those with drain effects, stat and health to have an increased effect on you (from the AC you gave up by wearing this tattoo instead).

I see this tattoo as definately a different strat build and would allow some fresh ideas.

QBRanger October 30 2009 9:41 AM EDT

No.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] October 30 2009 7:08 PM EDT

Here is another idea I had. A Berserker's Helm [0] gives no AC per + and has the same upgrade curve as the HoE. What it would do is add 2% of the damage you take after all reductions back into str. You could have this work or not with PL depending and of course the exact amount put into str could vary but I think it would be a very interesting item.

{WW]Nayab [Cult of the Valaraukar] October 30 2009 7:14 PM EDT

Thats a good idea Nem except i would prefer it to be this.
Berserker Helm [0]
Each + reduces incoming magic damage by 0.5% and adds it to strength. This effect stacks and is reset if not affected by magic damage in the last 5 rounds.

SoC versus Mages :)

Reignmaker [Battle Royale] October 30 2009 7:26 PM EDT

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHatchetman
I think most Exbow users defend it's ability due to it being the "only" way to defend against the massive archers in existence (aside from AC, ToE, PL, EC, Evasion, and other stuff they don't feel like using)...
PL is hardly a way to defend against archers. You absorb the damage (which is insanely high) on another minion next round they destroy the minion they originally wanted to.

AC is a way to defend against everything, besides the RoBF. And this only works if you have stupid amounts of cash around. So the only way to beat a USD archer is to use massive amounts of USD yourself? This doesn't seem like it's supposed to be USD vs USD in this game.

EC? Really dude. You could dedicate your entire EXP into EC and still not reduce their stats enough for them to not merc you.

ToE? Maybe, it's such a sucky tattoo. And again it probably won't turn the tide of battle if you're facing a USD archer team.

Evasion, I guess.... But what's the point? If the team has a ToA too, your evasion will never be high enough.

{WW]Nayab [Cult of the Valaraukar] October 30 2009 7:34 PM EDT

RoS teams are rather good against USD archers because they get eaten by GA. If they are using DM, they get owned by Decay. If they use AMF they get owned by the RoS teams. Its just a matter of getting the right balance and you can beat them.

QBRanger October 30 2009 7:38 PM EDT

"AC is a way to defend against everything, besides the RoBF. "

This is sort of true, but sort of not true.

All AC works vs archers and physical damage, however, only the + works vs the RBF, GA and DD.

That is a world of difference.

350 AC vs an archer is tons of damage reduction. 350 AC vs GA or DD or RBF is good but not as good.

I agree with Hatch's statement. The exbow is rubbish.

I suggest a new item:

Water Gun [4] upgrade as an exbow.

Compare the damage vs the RBF level in to lower its damage capacity. Use a system like the current exbow.

I bet all the RBF users love this idea.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] October 30 2009 7:50 PM EDT

One more time, the last statement I remember from Jon was that all AC lowered RoBF damage. If you've got evidence to say otherwise I'd like to see it.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] October 30 2009 7:52 PM EDT

All AC definitely works against RoBF damage. I am using that fact and see it a lot.

lel October 30 2009 7:52 PM EDT

"AC is a way to defend against everything, besides the RoBF. "

Not really... AC is best defense against the RoBF. 350+ AC doesn't really do much against an archer like Heroes.

Reignmaker [Battle Royale] October 30 2009 8:57 PM EDT

So.. you then agree with the point I was trying to make..... Or did you just pick out one sentence and figure from that I was trying to make some other point I wasn't making? I was trying to saw the exbow is necessary because it is one of the only really good counters against USD archer teams, and I was disagreeing with TH by taking his points and saying they aren't really good against the archers.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] November 1 2009 6:26 PM EST

Here was another idea I had for a DD spell this time. I would call it Blink it would be a front targeting spell that does around 2/3 or 3/4 of MM it would fire in ranged and give a chance of removing the minion it hit for 1 turn. The % chance of success would be based just like AMF except with the DD vs the total levels of the minion hit. If the damage is absorbed by PL I guess it would work it as if it had hit the PL minion and blink it. If the last minion alive is blinked the battle doesn't end until it is actually killed of course.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] November 1 2009 6:28 PM EST

One other thing is that when AMF is used against it the level to determine the chance of blink would be reduced by the AMF ratio.

Wraithlin November 1 2009 6:34 PM EST

If we're adding blink we should also add Mirror Image, trained as a skill, levels similar to Evasion, but about 1/10th the rate. Instead of having each 1 point give evasion, it negates the first time you take damage. So if you had say 60 evasion, you would have 6 mirror image, and so the first 6 attacks that deal damage to you are dropped to zero.

*sidenote* mirror image doesn't protect against aoe as the spell in DnD, i think it should in this game, 1 fireball killing the skill is op.

Zenai November 1 2009 7:27 PM EST

oooo that would be deadly OPed if used by an Archer Team and Junctioned to a Hal or Jiggy! I would use it in a heartbeat!

TheHatchetman November 1 2009 7:45 PM EST

"PL is hardly a way to defend against archers. You absorb the damage (which is insanely high) on another minion next round they destroy the minion they originally wanted to."

Couple it with some other forms of reduction. Double or even triple the longevity of your Evasion or Wall minion, and it makes a *huge* difference.

"AC is a way to defend against everything, besides the RoBF. And this only works if you have stupid amounts of cash around. So the only way to beat a USD archer is to use massive amounts of USD yourself? This doesn't seem like it's supposed to be USD vs USD in this game."

Seen my wall set lately?

"EC? Really dude. You could dedicate your entire EXP into EC and still not reduce their stats enough for them to not merc you."

Forces archers to choose between Dex or ST, most would choose ST, allowing you the advantage with... say, an Exbow?

"ToE? Maybe, it's such a sucky tattoo. And again it probably won't turn the tide of battle if you're facing a USD archer team."

Alone, perhaps it won't. But with any other form of reduction/avoidance of damage, a ToE effectively removes tanks from your list of threats almost entirely. It only "sucks" because it doesn't reduce magical damage, and has a pitiful upgrade in effect compaired to level in the upper ranks.

"Evasion, I guess.... But what's the point? If the team has a ToA too, your evasion will never be high enough."

turn 5 hits to 2 hits, and you're looking at a 60% reduction in damage.



"One more time, the last statement I remember from Jon was that all AC lowered RoBF damage."

This is true.

Zenai November 1 2009 8:32 PM EST

Since we are talking about what does and does not work on an Archer and bringing the ToA into the Spotlight. I think it is only fair to take this Thread

PTH Versus Evasion.

into account to see that things are not quite as skewed as they may think. Also I would like to mention that even though argued the Jiggy is a Foil to Archers as well. The Argument before was alone the Jiggy is not, in this manner I will still leave it alone. However I will say that Junctioned Jiggy's are as nasty as they come as a foil to Archers. Evasion/Dex is a killer now add DBs (or EBs for more Dex)and watch it stack then pwn Archers left and right! The only ones that even have a remote chance are extremely high in MPR, have have a ton of Stats Trained, and Multi Mils of NW with Major Tats.

Say it's not true and I will point out the Mega Archers of the Game.

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