Fight suspensions (in General)


QBRanger January 9 2010 12:21 PM EST

I was just fighting at my normal pace and bamm:

Didn't I say it's not polite to fight more than one battle at a time? You'll have to wait about 10 minutes now for fight to be reenabled.
(Multiple suspensions will result in longer penalties.)

Is it really that much of a problem fighting too fast?

If it is, can we get the suspension dropped from 10 minutes to like 2 minutes?

Miandrital January 9 2010 12:23 PM EST

I've been getting warned at a higher frequency in the last couple days. Even got a suspension a week ago.

AdminShade January 9 2010 12:25 PM EST

How often does this happen (to you) really? I'd say hardly.

Wraithlin January 9 2010 12:26 PM EST

Actually it's no problem at all.

Just ignore it and keep fighting.

It doesn't actually work.

QBRanger January 9 2010 12:32 PM EST

If you ignore it and keep fighting, one can fail a botcheck one does not see.

Which is costly if one pays the fine.

I have had a suspension happen about 1 time every 3-4 days. Maybe my connection is too fast?

Adios Muchachos January 9 2010 12:32 PM EST

and then you get hit with a botcheck that you can't answer and WHAMMO you're stuck for an hour with no ba accrual

AdminNightStrike January 9 2010 12:33 PM EST

I'm guessing you guys missed it where I fixed the suspension not actually suspending you.....

Lord Bob January 9 2010 12:36 PM EST

Didn't I say it's not polite to fight more than one battle at a time? You'll have to wait about 10 minutes now for fight to be reenabled.


I post about this every few months and it gets ignored every time.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] January 9 2010 12:40 PM EST

Wouldn't it have been prudent to fix the suspensions first?

Lord Bob January 9 2010 12:48 PM EST

Wouldn't it have been prudent to fix the suspensions first?

Of course it would have, but they don't seem interested in doing that.

AdminShade January 9 2010 12:49 PM EST

Because something is perceived as broken does not mean any attempt to fix it is the right one. Such rushed attempts frequently make a bad situation worse.

AdminNightStrike January 9 2010 12:51 PM EST

Who said the suspensions need to be fixed? You can't start a second fight before the first one finishes.

Lord Bob January 9 2010 12:55 PM EST

You can't start a second fight before the first one finishes.

And when we get suspensions out of the blue when that isn't the case?

I'd be less adamant about it if the message wasn't so damn condescending. "Didn't I say it's not polite to fight more than one battle at a time?" I didn't fight more than one, you useless piece of bad code!

AdminNightStrike January 9 2010 12:58 PM EST

Those instances are quite limited. That only happens usually when someone is updating something and introduces a bug, which is quickly fixed.

Lord Bob January 9 2010 1:13 PM EST

Those instances are quite limited.

For a while I was getting it several times a day. It's not as bad as it was, true, but it's still problematic.

And no, I am not fighting too fast, for anyone who asks.

QBRanger January 9 2010 1:21 PM EST

Those instances are quite limited.

Define limited?

Once a day? Once every 3 days? Once every week?

I get it once every 3-4 days, and it is very annoying. Especially when trying to burn BA before work knowing that if I do not, there goes a lot of BA wasted.

Losing 60 BA every few days adds up.

And like LB, I know I am not fighting too fast. I have a cable modem and DSL I use. Nothing special.

AdminNightStrike January 9 2010 1:22 PM EST

How do you know you aren't fighting too fast?

QBRanger January 9 2010 1:23 PM EST

If I am currently fighting too fast for the system, with my cable modem or DSL, then there is a bigger problem than these suspensions.

Lord Bob January 9 2010 1:27 PM EST

I get it once every 3-4 days,

That seems the norm for me now as well.

Now, I'm only counting the suspensions I get out of nowhere: the ones I get after I click the first fight after several minutes of inactivity. I of course wouldn't be reporting any suspensions I get for the right reason.

So, any chance we can reduce the suspension from ten minutes to two? Or even five?

AdminNightStrike January 9 2010 1:32 PM EST

If I am currently fighting too fast for the system, with my cable modem or DSL, then there is a bigger problem than these suspensions.


The speed of your connection has nothing to do with it. It's whether you submit a second page request before the first finishes.

AdminNightStrike January 9 2010 1:33 PM EST

the ones I get after I click the first fight after several minutes of inactivity.


If something like that happens, I need a lot more to go on when it actually happens other than "I got suspended, fix it."

Lord Bob January 9 2010 1:36 PM EST

..other than "I got suspended, fix it."

Yeah, nobody here said that, but OK. Next time I encounter it I'll try to remember to post it here.

AdminTitan January 9 2010 1:36 PM EST

Like multiple stating the same things? Like that the above happens to me also?

AdminTitan January 9 2010 1:37 PM EST

Also NS, do you have to wait for the next page to display entirely, or just begin displaying.

Lord Bob January 9 2010 1:48 PM EST

http://www.carnageblender.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002x8m

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] January 9 2010 1:50 PM EST

when it starts displaying, the fight should be done.

AdminTitan January 9 2010 1:51 PM EST

^ That's what I thought dude, although it doesn't seem to be the case a lot.

Lord Bob January 9 2010 2:14 PM EST

when it starts displaying, the fight should be done.

At the very least, when it stops displaying the fight should be done.

Solare January 9 2010 2:36 PM EST

I've had this happen numerous times as well; that is, fighting a single fight and getting suspended...

I don't particularly like the attitude of the message or the 10 minute delay either.
Sometimes I don't have the 10 minutes to spare.

QBRanger January 9 2010 2:39 PM EST

If the goal of the message is to stop overloading the game, would not a 2 minute or less suspension serve the same purpose?

Lord Bob January 9 2010 2:48 PM EST

I don't particularly like the attitude of the message ..

Right. And as I said on this thread and others, it's the main reason I'm so aggressive about getting it fixed.

Want to talk down to your players? Fine. I'll talk down to you when I point out your feature sucks.

Lochnivar January 9 2010 2:51 PM EST

Didn't I say it's not polite to fight more than one battle at a time? > You'll have to wait about 10 minutes now for fight to be reenabled
(Multiple suspensions will result in longer penalties.)



...maybe it's just me but I really don't see how this is so offensive to people...

Lord Bob January 9 2010 3:03 PM EST

"Didn't I say it's not polite to fight more than one battle at a time?" is a bit condescending, especially when I didn't do what's attacking me for doing.

The rest of the message I have no problem with.

Perhaps a brief explanation why you got the suspension and how it works would be better than getting snarky about it.

Lord Bob January 9 2010 3:47 PM EST

http://www.carnageblender.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002cnd
http://www.carnageblender.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002p5a

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] January 9 2010 3:48 PM EST

i would just like to know why exactly it is wrong to have one fight start before another is finished?

also, why isn't it handled server-side if this is such a problem. there should be some way where a team can only be in one fight at a time if there is a good enough reason for this. if it just brought up a screen each time that says "your previous fight hasn't finished" and loads up some kind of little image that takes a few seconds, then people would slow down naturally rather than having to wait for that screen each time which would slow down their fighting even more.

AdminShade January 9 2010 3:50 PM EST

...if it just brought up a screen each time that says "your previous fight hasn't finished" and loads up some kind of little image that takes a few seconds...

Perhaps another bot check? I'm sure we're used to getting them. Could it be forced for these instances to get a bot check?

Lord Bob January 9 2010 3:54 PM EST

i would just like to know why exactly it is wrong to have one fight start before another is finished?

That one's easy. Your stats change after every battle, namely HP (before healing) and Experience (including stored tattoo experience).

iBananco [Blue Army] January 9 2010 3:56 PM EST

The question, though, is why is it a punishable offense?

AdminTitan January 9 2010 3:56 PM EST

I just got the warning, when I just clicked it, it just happened... and I doubt any bugs are being fixed now.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] January 9 2010 4:14 PM EST

i do understand that lb, however how many fights, now that broadband is in use moreso than dialup, can one actually begin before another one is finished.

with dial up, you could perhaps exploit in that manner but with dial up and even tabbed browsing how many times can you switch tabs and fight before the first one finishes?

unless of course you are botting or scripting, but the bot checks cover exploits on that end, no?

AdminTitan January 9 2010 4:17 PM EST

I have multiple computers dude ;P

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] January 9 2010 4:20 PM EST

me too, but even so how many fights can you start at once before the first one finishes...with the advent of broadband i just don't see that being much of an issue. if i had my desktop, both laptops and my phone all in my office. set them up and hit fight i can imagine that by the time i get to the third or fourth computer the first fight would be done anyways.

worst case scenario is a data center with 160 monkeys on 160 computers who all press fight at the same time. if all fights go through successfully would even our current system keep that from happening? would the opponent show up as comatose? how many people have that many monkeys? ; )

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] January 9 2010 4:21 PM EST

i just timed six fights and none of them took over a second to complete, i don't really have a way to time it more precisely but i am thinking they finished well under a second.

Lord Bob January 9 2010 4:41 PM EST

Dude, the problem is threefold:
1.) Often times the warning or the suspension isn't even accompanied by being in two fights at a time. Sometimes it just occurs out of the blue.

2.) Most often (yes, most) the warnings and the suspensions aren't even applied consecutively. I can get a warning, then fight without error for several minutes, then get the suspension. One would think that after the first fight ends, any warning flags would reset and you wouldn't get suspended before another warning. Not here.

3.) The message itself is straight up rude. I would hate this less if I didn't get it for not doing what it's telling me I did. But when I sit down and click my first fight after I KNOW my last one cleared, and I get the "didn't I say it's not polite.." message, my blood boils.

If the problem is too tricky to solve outright, at least it could be made less frustrating. Change the snarky message to something a bit less irritating, and reduce the suspension time. Even it we still got random suspensions, it wouldn't be as hate-inducing as it is now.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] January 9 2010 4:44 PM EST

i do understand all of that but am basically just wondering if the whole reason this was initially in place even matters any longer. instead of fixing it i would think it would be easier to just disable it!

Lord Bob January 9 2010 4:47 PM EST

I understand. I believe a system to restrict fights to one at a time is still necessary. Sometimes I do get the warning or the suspension over a legitimate double-click, but this is rare. I just disagree with the way players have to interact with that restriction.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] January 9 2010 4:49 PM EST

From what I understand it is not that you have fought 2 battles, but that you are trying to fight 2 battles at once. It happens when your computer sends two commands to fight at once out separately. The only way I can get this to happen is when I use my touch pad on my laptop and also click the mouse button so It sends 2 separate commands for a fight at the same time. In the end what happens is 1 fight goes through and you get the warning message. If the same thing occurs a few minutes later it goes straight to the suspension.

Lord Bob January 9 2010 4:53 PM EST

From what I understand it is not that you have fought 2 battles, but that you are trying to fight 2 battles at once.

Correct.
I'm saying that in my experience, this is not always the case.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] January 9 2010 4:56 PM EST

But it may be that and you do not realize it. Have you not had cases where you click fight and it says the opponent is comatose but if you look in your recent fights it says that you just beat him?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] January 9 2010 5:03 PM EST

i just played with it all to see if i could make it happen. i tried hitting enter twice quickly, clicking with my mouse while hitting enter and double clicking fight with my mouse.

the only one that got the warning, out of several tries of each, was the double clicking with my mouse.

i do not have the trouble that others do with this but almost always use the enter keyboard method. are those that do have this happen using their mouse or does it happen with other methods as well?

Lord Bob January 9 2010 5:11 PM EST

But it may be that and you do not realize it. Have you not had cases where you click fight and it says the opponent is comatose but if you look in your recent fights it says that you just beat him?

No.

And I don't use my entire fight list, so what you're proposing would be highly unlikely anyway as the auto-scroll just jumps to the next opponent.

Lord Bob January 9 2010 5:52 PM EST

Oops, I missed Dude's question.
i do not have the trouble that others do with this but almost always use the enter keyboard method. are those that do have this happen using their mouse or does it happen with other methods as well?

I have found no correlation in the increase of suspensions when I either use the enter key or click. I tend to use both equally, but I don't do the "hold down enter to run through your entire fight list in 0.43 seconds" trick. I KNOW that's prone to suspensions!

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] January 9 2010 6:14 PM EST

Solution?

Instead of coming up with that slap in the face page stating that you didn't wait for the previous fight to finish, why not make THAT page finish the fight for you? Or click a link to go back to that exact fight in question. I remember when i used to fight and I'd get the warning, going 'Home' did not work, even though it is a link on that warning page.

QBsutekh137 January 9 2010 9:59 PM EST

No, suspensions are fine just the way they are.

AdminNightStrike January 10 2010 1:45 AM EST

At the risk of regretting continued replies to this thread, I have a few things to point out.

1. Allowing multiple simultaneous fights is open to WAY too much abuse from far too many angles. This is not an option, and not open for discussion.

2. You don't have to successfully fight to send multiple fight requests. You can send multiple requests to comatose players, which will still trigger the suspension without yielding a fight in your battle log.

3. It is multiple simultaneous requests of fight.tcl that we are protecting against. This means it is not limited to being in an actual fight as most of you understand it.

4. Just because you get a successful fight after a warning message doesn't mean you can keep doing things wrong. You will be suspended if you pass a threshold of a certain number of warnings sent in a certain amount of time (neither of which I know off the top of my head).

5. Have we really gotten to the point where we are complaining about the tone of warning messages? Really?

Lord Bob January 10 2010 2:28 AM EST

5. Have we really gotten to the point where we are complaining about the tone of warning messages? Really?

Have we gotten to the point where we are to tolerate condescending messages from the developers? Really?

kevlar January 10 2010 3:23 AM EST

I'm just really really glad NS is in in the position he is and others are not.

Mikel January 12 2010 2:05 AM EST

I keep getting them when I fight Celestial Storm

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] January 12 2010 2:32 AM EST

There is an example of a good post about a bug. It actually contains information relavent to the situation.
Can you give us other examples of information we'd need to help discover if some aspect of this issue is really a bug?

I'd like to know what I can do to cause them for starters, even when trying on a fast connection I rarely see them.

kevlar January 12 2010 3:16 AM EST

I'm guessing a majority of the issues are due to wireless. Are you hardwired or on wireless, Nov?

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] January 12 2010 3:35 AM EST

Both, as well as cdma and gsm based cell connections, other than serious server issues I've never had much of an issue. I do run modt of my fight on a vanilla firefox portable install... might add-ons be part of the client side issues?

AdminG Beee January 12 2010 4:08 AM EST

I can't remember the last time I saw a fight suspension warning.

I use various and many methods of connection not to mention mouse or enter button clicking for fights.

No problems here...

QBJohnnywas January 12 2010 9:40 AM EST

I just - through very fast clicking rather than holding the button down ran through 35 fights in a minute. At the end of it I got the warning page that I was fighting too fast, but no sign of a suspension. I can't remember the last time I got a suspension, although I have on occasion seen the first warning page when I get a little enthuasiastic in my fighting!

QBJohnnywas January 12 2010 9:40 AM EST

I just - through very fast clicking rather than holding the button down ran through 35 fights in a minute. At the end of it I got the warning page that I was fighting too fast, but no sign of a suspension. I can't remember the last time I got a suspension, although I have on occasion seen the first warning page when I get a little enthusiastic in my fighting!

QBJohnnywas January 12 2010 9:42 AM EST

Aha, a double post, even though I hit back to correct a spelling mistake and not post!

And meanwhile, my next bout of BA arrived and on the first one I'm suspended!!! First time in a very long time!

QBJohnnywas January 12 2010 9:43 AM EST

And it is a suspension, I cannot fight now.

QBRanger January 12 2010 9:43 AM EST

However, some people do get these suspensions.

If the purpose of them are to stop server overload or something like that, and we want to keep players sort of happy, why cannot the suspension be 2 minutes instead of 10?

So if there is a time constraint on the player, it is not overbearing enough for them to miss BA.

QBJohnnywas January 12 2010 9:44 AM EST

hmmm. I can fight now. I couldn't a minute ago. It went to the suspension page.

QBRanger January 12 2010 9:44 AM EST

Or in hockey terms:

Change it from a 10 minute major to a 2 minute minor.

QBJohnnywas January 12 2010 9:48 AM EST

And now I have this:

"Didn't I say it's not polite to fight more than one battle at a time? You'll have to wait about 20 minutes now for fight to be reenabled.
(Multiple suspensions will result in longer penalties.) "


QBJohnnywas January 12 2010 10:01 AM EST

12 minutes later I'm not suspended. Lol. Quirky!

AdminNightStrike January 12 2010 1:14 PM EST

Originally, it was set to 10 minutes to coincide with a full regen period. So really, it should go up :)

Honestly, though, if you are in a position where you constantly get them, you really need to fight slower.

I will look at Celestial Storm for you, Mikel, assuming you mean to say that it always happens when you fight that party.

Mikel January 13 2010 10:37 AM EST

It doesn't always happen. To give more details:
When I start fighting (using the mouse) is when it happens. Then when I get it, I jump to recent battles and wait for it to populate. Then go back to fight with the mouse for a couple of battles before switching to the enter button. It usually no longer happens once I use the enter button.

PS it only happens once in a blue moon, and Celestial is the top guy on my fight list so he's the only one I usually use the mouse on.
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002yFY">Fight suspensions</a>