How many new players you know that quit fast ? (in General)


Sickone February 5 2010 5:40 PM EST

And more importantly, what is the most prevalent reason for quitting ?

I'm not extremely sociable (almost never on chat), but I've met a few nevertheless.
The most recent one is a (soon former) member of our clan.
Him, like most others, have cited THE AMOUNT OF TIME THE GAME REQUIRES as the primary reason for quitting.

I'm looking at you, 10/20 BA, I'm looking at you...

Wraithlin February 5 2010 5:48 PM EST

I have two brothers that both joined around when I did, I told them about the game so they tried it out.

One stopped playing because of time commitment combined with bot checks. Really he leaned more towards the bot check reason. He said the last week or so he was trying to play he would log on with capped BA and start spending it, then 4 bot checks would come up in 12 fights and he would just sign off again for a few hours and repeat.

The other stopped because it wasn't really challenging enough. The game just requires dedication and planning to be the top, and his schedule doesn't allow him to compete, which is frustrating since he had a really good strat, he just realized it would never get near the top with how much he could play. Dedication and planning games are not his choice. Oh and he really doesn't like seeing games that can be influenced at all by USD, so that was a turnoff for him too.

Tabaldak February 5 2010 5:54 PM EST

Aren't all games influenced by USD though? Does your brother think that Jon and other game owners run the server and stuff for free?

Wraithlin February 5 2010 5:57 PM EST

WoW has a subscription fee, spending USD other than that does nothing for making you a better player.

League of Legends is free to download, free to play, USD just makes your people look different, no gameplay changes.

These are just a couple instances, if you'd like I could name a few dozen more.

Lord Bob February 5 2010 5:58 PM EST

Aren't all games influenced by USD though? Does your brother think that Jon and other game owners run the server and stuff for free?

There's a difference between paying for monthly access and being able to gain advantage in the game itself by purchasing game currency and items with real money.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] February 5 2010 5:59 PM EST

I've seen a large number of vets leave because of the dwindling number of fights. Clickfests should actually let you click...

Wraithlin February 5 2010 6:05 PM EST

Aren't all games influenced by USD though? Does your brother think that Jon and other game owners run the server and stuff for free?


I guess I should address your other point here too. Many many free to play online games have pay for additional features, and that's how they make thier money. Which I am perfectly fine with, and it doesn't really affect the game in the long run.

The difference is that all those other games have a ceiling. Spending the USD just gets to the ceiling faster so you can compete at end game sooner, a non-USD spender can still challenge you and get to where you are, it will just take longer.

In CB, since there is no ceiling, there is no possible way for a non-USD spender to compete with a USD spender, the USD spender gets to buy all of his BA everyday, and can still get better gear, a non-spender cannot physically buy all his BA and keep all his gear at max NW for his ENC, it's impossible.

CB is still a great game, just a few flaws is all, but it does have a solid, if somewhat small community working to make it better.

TheHatchetman February 5 2010 6:15 PM EST

too much entitlement to a top spot feeling going around. Everyone feels they should be in the top 10 on their schedule, and with their high expectations, they are impatient to boot. 6 months is far too long in their eyes to take a spot from someone that's been playing the same character for 5 years.

Wraithlin February 5 2010 6:21 PM EST

I agree Hatchet, I think the NUB bonus should be tuned to only allow you to get maybe 80% of the top spot, if not lower. Force even new guys to have to run an NCB to get there rather than possibly hitting top 10 on thier first go at the game.

And they would also have to build up the funds and gear to do it, so most likely it would take 2-5 NCBs before they could have a real shot at it.

I do think that NCBs should be scaled to give a chance at making it into the top 10 though with good play, so that anyone with 1 and a half or more years of dedicated time with the game would allow for a crack at the big ten.

On the other hand, don't give too much entitlement to the 5 year players either. If you think they should be top 10 just because they've been playing the longest I guess we should just go join a calender game, first day you sign in you get your date of joining the game. Then you can just log in everyday and talk about what rank you are because you got the oldest date.

Sickone February 6 2010 1:09 AM EST

If you force the N*B as low as you like, you won't make a NCB easier to get to the top... unless you mean only tweak the NUB but not the NCB.

Also, that does absolutely nothing to prevent the main sources of discontent/annoyance, namely the "must log in many times a day and still miss some BA due to sleep" big one and the many smaller ones like "botchecks are annoying" or "USD spending is unfair".

Lord Bob February 6 2010 2:01 AM EST

too much entitlement to a top spot feeling going around.

Yep.

Soul Crusher February 6 2010 2:19 AM EST

If you want people to stick around, get a decent bot check, for one. The bot check is flawed for a few reasons. I can expand on this point, if it isn't glaringly obvious.

Second, just because you think you're a "vet" doesn't give you the right to bash someone just because they're new to the game. I get so tired of reading about "NUB" bashing, and anyone who uses the term "NUB sellout" is just annoying. Who the Hell are you to tell someone else how to play their account? Just because you found out about a game before someone else doesn't make you better than anyone. (The above paragraph is for a select few, since I must admit most players have been very decent to me. And I've never "sold out' in my life, and I never will. I'm just not gonna hate anyone over a game.)

Third, raise the BA cap above 160. Some adults like gaming too, and even kids have school 6+ hours a day, so why should anyone have to play every 4-5 hours just to compete?

Fourth, quit whining about the players that spend USD on the game. You think servers run on pixie dust or something? I enjoy the game, and I'm proud of the fact that I help support it. And if I'm going to spend my money on pixels, I want the shiniest pixels in the game.

Anyways, I'm not pissed, and I'm not pointing my finger at anyone in particular. So, sorry if my OPINION pisses anyone off. You asked why people leave the game, and I'm telling you. So, be cool, relax, and enjoy the game, because I will.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 6 2010 2:56 AM EST

too much entitlement to a top spot feeling going around.


This was the main reason CB1 stopped.

*Everyone* needs to be able to compete for the top spot, or no one will bother playing (apart fromt he hanful of people already at the top).

Personally, it's still *damn* hard to get to the top, even with a N*B.

If we want to encourage more users, then maybe this should in fact be made easier.

What's the downside? More competition, more fights, more users at the top end of the game.

That's no bad thing...

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 6 2010 2:58 AM EST

Fourth, quit whining about the players that spend USD on the game. You think servers run on pixie dust or something?


How does buying a gaziilion CBD for USD, off of another player, help fund the server in *any* fashion?

Apoclyspe February 6 2010 3:11 AM EST

I would like to agree on the raise the BA Limit most other games i play make it so in order to use all energy for the day to log on once a day. I think doing that here would bring some new blood. Honestly i lose an amazing amount BA a day because i work 8 plus hours a day with half hour travel time not to mention sleeping for 8 hours.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 6 2010 3:34 AM EST

If you only have to log on once per day, wouldn't that mean you visited CB less?

As Nov said, I actually like to click, and sometimes wish I could click more in CB, not less.

(Especially not being a USD users, and not having enough cash to buy all my NCB extra BA a day, so I lose out on more potential clicking... But that's a whole bunch of issues rolled in together! ;) )

Vicious Cat February 6 2010 4:17 AM EST

But there is a massive difference between having to log in twice for half an hour each, and once for an hour - anyone who can't see that hasn't got a life
:-P So there

Shark February 6 2010 6:23 AM EST

I got 2 people to sign up and try CB cuz I wanted some referral CB cash. In less than 1 day all they had to say was it sucked and they went back to planting corn and wheat on their farms at Facebook..I think they up to avocados now

TheHatchetman February 6 2010 6:28 AM EST

If we want to encourage more users, then maybe this should in fact be made easier.


So we should find a way to somehow get 100 players in the top 10 simultaneously? Got it! Play less than someone else? Not as smart as someone else? Demand to use a strategy that is inefficient as all hell because it feels unique or like what you want to do? Make friends with the top 50. Still a decent enough rank.

You wanna break the top 5 or 10, you've gotta play the same game we've all been playing. Besides, if it were that easy to get there, how much of an accomplishment is it, really?

QBJohnnywas February 6 2010 6:31 AM EST

You could use up all your daily ba allowance by only logging in a few times a day.

The benefits of logging on a lot aren't obvious straightaway, but the main one is keeping your scores (score and clan score) higher when you're being farmed. If you're not fighting continuously they can drop down (clan into the negatives) quite quickly. Staying logged in and using your ba continuously can stop this happening.

The biggest problem with making the game easier for the casual player is that the more committed player will need something to make it worth their while to stay committed. Why would you be a more intensive player when it brings you no extra reward?

TheHatchetman February 6 2010 6:34 AM EST

And to address the potential complaints about the game that have been brought up.

"must log in many times a day and still miss some BA due to sleep"


We all miss BA here and there. Miss more than the next guy, why don't they deserve an advantage? This complaint is the biggest example of entitlement I have really...

"botchecks are annoying"


If they can't read, they should really avoid text-based anything...

"USD spending is unfair"


Indeed it is. So's life.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] February 6 2010 7:15 AM EST

these type of threads are really pretty worthless as they soon turn into what "we" don't like about the game. well, "we" are still here so these arguments are meaningless.

as some suggested a few months back, the devs really need to send an email to people who quit after a few days asking for their reasons if they really want to modify the game to retain more players. of course, if this is done, "we" may not like the results. ; )

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 6 2010 7:17 AM EST

You wanna break the top 5 or 10, you've gotta play the same game we've all been playing. Besides, if it were that easy to get there, how much of an accomplishment is it, really?


Yet you wonder why people don't stay, and we have a small, and slowly diwndling player base...

Seriously guys, if we want to encourage *more* players, of diverse backgrounds, we need to cater to them.

If not, that's cool. But don't lament why we remain a closed, insular community.

TheHatchetman February 6 2010 7:42 AM EST

Seriously guys, if we want to encourage *more* players, of diverse backgrounds, we need to cater to them.


So give everyone an easy shot to the top 5 or 10, but with the knowledge that they'll never keep it longer than a week cuz there's 50 people taking their easy shot right behind them? I'm not sure I get what you're saying...

What we need is to stop pushing this idea that everyone is entitled to be right at the very top of things just because it's possible to get there. Then they won't be disappointed still being on the first page (EASY feat to pull as things stand). If the guy above you is putting in more time or effort, or beating you with strategic prowess, why should you pass them? Look at NWO, Xanas, The Lega, B Ark, and failure. Reliably spending BA for over 5 years now. Half of that time spent on a BA schedule twice as strict as the current one. If 10 minutes 3 times a day is too much for you, you don't deserve a snowball's chance in hell at beating them without breaking them on a strategic level (which gets done all the time)...

TheHatchetman February 6 2010 7:58 AM EST

It would also appear that most time spent has a much smaller meaning than people think as well... the top 5 BA spenders are ranked 11th, 27th, 21st, 53rd, and 15th in terms of score, and 2nd, 20th, 7th, 14th, and 12th in terms of MPR.

Again, the problem is all this pushing of Bono's theory (I AM NOT NUMBER TWO!!!!!!), and leading people to think that just because the top spots are possible to reach that they deserve them effortlessly.

Reptoid February 6 2010 8:20 AM EST

I need help. I played this game back in 2008 sometime and I was a supporter. It has been so long that i forgot the email adress i was using at that time. I know my account name was ZombieZ I don't know how i remembered that much, but I did after an hour or two. Is there anyway i can figure out the email adress to the account ZombieZ ? I could figure out the pass from there because i only use a handfull of passwords. HELP PLEASE!

Vicious Cat February 6 2010 9:38 AM EST

Is it P4s5W0rd ?

AdminShade February 6 2010 9:59 AM EST

I have already helped Reptoid.

Demigod February 6 2010 10:16 AM EST

Poor Raptoid. He could have had another NUB. :)

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] February 6 2010 10:30 AM EST

the top ba spenders does not take into account ba spent on different characters. if it did, we would see some different results.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 6 2010 11:50 AM EST

Currently, the N*B isn't an Easy Shot in any way shape or form.

It requires pre knowledge of CB (we all know some of the most successful NUB runs were on returning players, however they swung getting a NUB), and in the case of the NCB *substantial* funds (I don't tihnk I need to highligh Z here!) to make it work.

On top of all this, any sort of break/failure in making every BA in your 6 month run/changemonth ruining your current strat (hi hi AoJ change) ultimately means;

"Well you had your shot. Unless you want to sink inordinate amounts of USD into a NCB, sorry. Find another game."

I like CB. Actually I love it. That's why I still play.

But none of my friends do. I've introduced *everyone* I know to it, and they look at cb, maybe fight a little, then leave. If they log on to a 'text based with no graphics in this day and age' game in the first place. Flash is too prevalent, and accessible.

CB *isn't* an accessible game, and this is shown by it's current user base.

I'm pretty sure we could all sink more money into Advertising, and I've no doubt it will draw many more people to CB.

But I'm willing to bet the majority won't stay.

CB caters to a niche gamer, and as such will remian with a solid, fanatic, but small player base.

If you want to expand on this, you have to make the sacrifce and make CB gameplay more accessible to more people.

QBJohnnywas February 6 2010 11:53 AM EST

Or make the game look more accessible, by using graphics.

Although, unlike a lot of games online, we'll be able to play on the Ipad!

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 6 2010 11:58 AM EST

Claire plays Mafia Wars. But won't touch CB with a bargepole.

Quite similar games, both with click limiters.

Mafia Wars isn't open ended like CB, as you can master everything, which gives that addicitive quality to keep coming back. You can also help your 'clan' mates click more, something CB doesn't do.

Plus, one of the biggest draws for Claire, it has a graphical interface.

Personally, that doesn't float my boat (I tend to be turned off from Graphics I don't like), but I know I'm in the minority. ;)

Sickone February 6 2010 3:25 PM EST

We all miss BA here and there. Miss more than the next guy, why don't they deserve an advantage? This complaint is the biggest example of entitlement I have really...


We might all miss some BA here and there, but for the NUBs, it hurts much more... it actually hurts about 5 times more for each BA wasted... and in 9/20 and 10/20, they usually miss far more BA than the rest of us that are already in 7/20 or 6/20.

How much of an "entitlement" would it be to BE ABLE TO PERFORM ON AN EVEN FOOTING WITH THE REST if you have a job+commute and no mobile device able to play the game ? Or if you want to get a good night's sleep and NOT have to log into the game the last thing before you go to sleep and first thing after you wake up ?
You can easily get 1 hour of commute each way plus 8 hours at the job, that's 10 hours right there. How about the people with 2 hour commutes and 8 hour jobs plus 1 hour breaks without internet access ? That's 13 hours without CB access right there. And maybe I want to spend some time (1h) with family before I go to sleep, sleep a solid 8 hours, then take a shower and breakfast before I go to work ? Even if I could log in before I go to work, that's another 10 hours right there.

When you only get around 6 hour's worth of accrued BA at 9/20 (and barely above 5 hours at 10/20 where new players start), in a world where it's NOT abnormal to be away from an internet connection anywhere from 8 to 12 hours, how exactly is that a bad entitlement ?
IF THE CURRENT BONUS SYSTEM IS KEPT IN PLACE (no rolling bonus), then I feel that the SHORTEST possible timeframe for not missing any BA should be at least 12 hours, going up to as much as 24 hours later on.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 6 2010 3:31 PM EST

We might all miss some BA here and there, but for the NUBs, it hurts much more... it actually hurts about 5 times more for each BA wasted


This.

A day or two out is like missing a week.

A Week out is like missing over a month.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] February 6 2010 3:41 PM EST

But the game is assuming that over the past 5 years had you been playing you would have missed that whole week rather than the 1-2 days in the 6 month span. The people with the really old chars have been missing a day here a day there. That really adds up to quite a lot of them over time.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 6 2010 3:45 PM EST

It doesn't assume it if the current top spot is a 6 month N*Ber who managed to not miss a day in those 6 months. ;)

Easier to do than not miss a day over those 5 years, but conversley of much more impact.

Sickone February 6 2010 3:45 PM EST

NUBs don't have a choice over how high the bonus is at the start, they can't chance nor pause that bonus later on, so as long as they lack that choice and the current bonus system remains in place, we shouldn't punish them for trying to lead a normal life.
It's very common to miss 12-24 hours, it's far less likely to miss one whole week... not just 5 times less likely, but a lot more less likely.

Zenai February 6 2010 3:53 PM EST

GL: I believe I have said that very same thing a few times myself. I have referred many people I know to CB, all of which have cringed at the mere mention of "Textbased". Board games, Card games, Table Top RPGs, Computer Games with Graphics they will play with a passion, Textbased seems to be their Krytonite :-/


Would be nice to have Graphics and of Course the ability to

"TURN THEM OFF!!!"

if we ever do get them. It may just be the thing that will make the player base bigger through retention and still Cater to the Niche Players already here.

Wraithlin February 6 2010 3:53 PM EST

Ok Hatchet, your logic is so terrible I just have to say something about it now, it's getting out of hand.

There can only ever be 10 people in the top 10. No matter how much easier you think some of us are suggesting for making it to the top 10, it will still be just as hard to get there. The top 10 are there because they are the top 10 players, just because people get to actually spend their BA doesn't make them a top 10 player, it just makes them a satisfied player, and satisfied players stay with a game instead of leave it.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 6 2010 3:55 PM EST

Couldn't agree more Z! ;)

If we had Graphics, it would need to come with an option to turn them off! :P

(For exmaple, Duels defaults to a little flash 'shadow' back and forth attack round, but you can turn that off and see narraive combat instead)

Zenai February 6 2010 4:31 PM EST

Wraithlin: Yes and No on your Comment to Hatch. Satisfied cannot be determined by how many clicks they can make that is ludicrous. In some cases it is a simple case of Willpower that makes a person stay with a game. Still again it can be Competitiveness that does it. Satisfaction is in the Eye of the Gamer plain and simple, trying to tag it is like Nailing Jello to a Tree it's just not gonna happen.

Top 10 players are there for several reasons, Strategic Ability, Proper Planning, a bit of Luck and of Course USD Utilization(in some cases). Overall yes I agree with your sentiment on that, they are there because they ARE the Top 10.

As far as meeting goal of Ease/Hardness to get Top 10 that has been a subject for debate for an extremely long time. The medium has still not been met in most players eyes, and I do not think it will be any time soon.

However, I have noticed that in almost every instance it is an Old Player saying it is fine the way it is and a New Player saying it is too Hard. Go Figure right?

TheHatchetman February 6 2010 5:25 PM EST

My logic stems from people whining about missed BA or that it is too hard to get to the top. We should make it easier, yada yada, etc. All because they can't get the best MPR. If you wanna be the best, be the best. If not, 20th really isn't that bad of a position or all that hard to shoot for...

TheHatchetman February 6 2010 5:37 PM EST

However, I have noticed that in almost every instance it is an Old Player saying it is fine the way it is and a New Player saying it is too Hard.


Old player worked for their spot. New player started and was told that their bonus gave the ability to shoot right up to the top. New player then figures screw any other part of the game, it's the top or bust. There's more to the game than the top, and many levels of play. To complain that it is too difficult to play out of your league is silly.

Sickone February 6 2010 5:59 PM EST

It's one thing to say "top 10", it's another thing to say "90% of the top MPR".

All this talk of "top ten" is quite pointless - OF COURSE we can't have more than ten people in the top ten, that's why it's called the "top 10", right ?
But what we can and probably should have is over 10 people within 90% of the top MPR, and over 50 within 80% of the top MPR, maybe even over 100 within 60% of the top MPR, since, hey, allegedly it should be possible to get to 95% of the top MPR, so 60% of top MPR should be something almost trivial, right ?

Wait, how many people in the 60/80/90% of top MPR range do we have ?
Let's see... top MPR right now is 5,673,015, so the numbers we're looking for are players above 5,105,713 MPR, then above 4,538,412 MPR and finally above 3,403,809 MPR.

Counting them, we get...
...wait, WHAT ?
7 people (+1 top MPR = 8 total) within 90% of top MPR,
18+1=19 within 80% of top MPR,
and only 58+1=59 within 60% of the top MPR !

But wait... IT GETS WORSE !
We have one retired character at a nice and round 5 mil MPR, and another retired one at a bit over 3.5 mil MPR.



So forget about "top 10" talks, start talking "percent of top MPR".
In that regard, the situation looks pretty damn poor.

TheHatchetman February 6 2010 6:03 PM EST

start talking "earning your MPR" or you have no business passing those that have

Sickone February 6 2010 6:06 PM EST

All of which is made doubly worse by the fact that MPR is not linear with XP, what we should probably be looking at is percentage of MTL instead.
I'd say that in order to be considered somewhat competitive, you'd have to have at least X% of the top player's MTL, not just X% of his MPR.

So... top guy has Max Tattoo Level 17,189,504... which means for even remotely competitive players (as in, have a sliver of a chance to probably barely compete near the top), you're looking at around 10.3 mil max tattoo level (and preferably also at least a 6 mil level tattoo). Yeah, there's only 47 active characters fitting that description, including the top MPR character.
As for the people that would actually stand a realistical chance to compete near the top, I'd say at least 80% of MTL is needed... or a bit over 13.7 MTL... guess how many of those we have active ? That's right, 16 of them, including the top MPR.

Like I was saying - horribly disastruous.

Sickone February 6 2010 6:15 PM EST

start talking "earning your MPR" or you have no business passing those that have


<sarcasm>Oh, I am sorry,</sarcasm
where exactly would I fit into that "earning my MPR" remark of yours then ?

I joined in november 2007, I didn't have time to play during my NUB, I chose NOT to abandon my character to be inactivity-deleted in order to restart with a new NUB (guess what, yes, IT WAS STILL POSSIBLE by the time I had sorted out my life enough to find time to play) but instead tried to persevere and start a NCB.
So I started a NCB, with minimal "help" from my old NUB, not quite from zero but very close by. I found it to be the "honourable way", and I am still suffering the consequences of my honesty.
This character I am now playing, started in March 2008, has only recently (and I mean weeks ago) broken into 6/20, after one entire year of quite intensive BA burning.

So let's recap:
* I start a NUB but don't have the time to play, results were negligible by the time it expired, barely managed to play one third of the time
* I choose to be honest and not "cheat" by getting a new NUB even if it was still "legal" back then
* I persevere for nearly 2 years and barely make it to 60% of the top MPR


Now tell how much I need to "start earning my MPR" to my face again.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 6 2010 6:25 PM EST

start talking "earning your MPR" or you have no business passing those that have


Hatch, CB1 wants you back... ;)

With an uncapped/unlimited game, *everyone* needs the ability to catch up.

Which means you will be working less than those you pass (Or they won't be gaining as much as you for equivalent work).

But I digress. You can still 'earn' your place, as long as the system if fair to everyone, which it currently isn't, nor has it *ever* been.

And witholding fixes to the broken system, because some older players had to play through it, and it wouldn't be 'fair' on them, will just leave CB2 to die.

So now we're on to what 'earn' is actually worth.

If you attribute it to only working thorugh a broken, lopsided, unfair system, then we have to leave CB2 as is, and watch as the population slowly dwindles away (or remains relatively constant).

If you're happy that you can also 'earn' your place, if everyone is playing in a balanced, fair and accessible system, then great! We can all be worth it, and Earn our places. And we can open CB up to more players.

Win.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 6 2010 6:27 PM EST

There's more to the game than the top


No, not really.

Everything else is subjective. Fun, ambitions and goals are all subjective.

CB is designed around there being a Top, Number 1 spot, and competing to reach it.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 6 2010 6:30 PM EST

Like I was saying - horribly disastruous


Add to that actually having to have a Tattoo that big...

/sigh

I tried to make the point, and I keep trying to make the point that Tattoo's are as bad for CB2 and not having a Bonus was to CB1.

Especially when in the start you could jump-start a tat with methods not available now.

Joel February 6 2010 6:40 PM EST

If we want new, longer-lasting, players, then I think that we shouldn't give an ounce of attention to what Hatchetface is saying and we should listen to the new players! Isn't that logical?
If you're jealous of how fast a NUB can grow, then thats your problem because you CHOSE to stay here and "work more" for your MPR by playing all you could.
How many of the top players got there without being able to play all the time?
I say that all the top players were lucky enough to be in a situation where they could devote enough time to CB to become the strongest.
As for me?
I lost my job trying to become strong in this game. Yes, CB2, coupled with my easily addicted self, has caused me to lose my job.
If this was a game that allowed me to wait until I got home to indulge my addiction, then I would not have lost my job.
Hatchet's comments are so insensitive to the problems new players have with balancing this game with real life, that I wonder if this game is even challenging enough for him.
Maybe we should triple the amount of BA regenerated and lower the rewards accordingly and just attach that new coding to Hatchet's account and see if he can do it.
Before you say anything to me Hatchet, just realize that if you bash me in return for my words, it is not real courage that you are showing. Realize that I am much bigger and stronger than you and that if you ever had the chance to say what you might want to say to me, to my face, that I would have to crush your tiny body. Saying something personal about me over the net does nothing to anger me; it just makes me chuckle at your pitiful weakness. I believe that Wraithlin is pretty strong, too, so I wouldn't mess with him, either, if I were you.
Just back off and quit your stupid bid to keep the time you put into this game from losing value.

WE NEED NEW PLAYERS!!! That is all.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 6 2010 6:46 PM EST

Joel, Hatch wasn't being personal in any of his comments.

TheHatchetman February 6 2010 6:49 PM EST

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahahahahahaaAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA!!!!!


HAHAHAH!


Joel February 6 2010 6:50 PM EST

I don't care. His comments made me angry because they disregarded every new players difficulties and resisted the necessary changes that need to be made. That is entirely counterproductive to our community and he should be punished!
He needs to shut it!

Joel February 6 2010 6:51 PM EST

Yeah, I know why your laughing! You know I can't reach you! Keep on laughing! I'm laughing too! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 6 2010 6:52 PM EST

I feel like I'm missing some inside joke here...

Joel February 6 2010 6:56 PM EST

Oh, wait, I'm not finished!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAH *weakpunkthinkshecanlaughjustbecauseIdontknowwherehelives*HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a riot!! The internet is great, don't you think? You can get away with poking the 500lb gorilla without worry.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 6 2010 7:01 PM EST

As for the people that would actually stand a realistical chance to compete near the top, I'd say at least 80% of MTL is needed... or a bit over 13.7 MTL... guess how many of those we have active ? That's right, 16 of them, including the top MPR.


There are also only 12 Tattoo's larger then 10M for those 16 to use.

So the MTL would be a bit of a waste. ;)

three4thsforsaken February 6 2010 7:03 PM EST

The best thing about the internet is that words and empty threats are the only weapons available. Not that anyone should be fighting.

TheHatchetman February 6 2010 7:17 PM EST

okay, now that I've caught my breathe... Let's try this.
If we want new, longer-lasting, players, then I think that we shouldn't give an ounce of attention to what Hatchetface is saying and we should listen to the new players! Isn't that logical?


To an extent yes. But the opinions of those experienced in the game's mechanics are better qualified to state where something would be pushed out of proportion, or generally broken. Or is it that easy to figure out in a month?


If you're jealous of how fast a NUB can grow, then thats your problem because you CHOSE to stay here and "work more" for your MPR by playing all you could.



So we should all play for 6 months then quit? And it has nothing to do with jealousy of those growing quickly. I don't mind when someone puts in the time and effort and gets to the top. I think it's absurd when people think everyone should have that handed to them on a platter though. Every step one takes towards the top is off of someone else's head. How can anyone think that they should climb right over everyone else without putting at least *almost* as much effort in?


How many of the top players got there without being able to play all the time?


Ask DrAcO or Serialkiller... If you wanna factor in USD, you could also talk to Ranger and AA about having taken time off.



I say that all the top players were lucky enough to be in a situation where they could devote enough time to CB to become the strongest.


Lucky... or patient... or smart... strategic... maybe they had a few bucks, or any combination of the group... C'est La Vie

As for me? I lost my job trying to become strong in this game. Yes, CB2, coupled with my easily addicted self, has caused me to lose my job. If this was a game that allowed me to wait until I got home to indulge my addiction, then I would not have lost my job.


Or if you would have had the sense to put your livelyhood ahead of an online game, you'd still have a job. Don't blame the game for bad prioritizing.


Hatchet's comments are so insensitive to the problems new players have with balancing this game with real life, that I wonder if this game is even challenging enough for him.


Well it tends to stagnate at times. But I've had fun working on and perfecting my strategy.


Maybe we should triple the amount of BA regenerated and lower the rewards accordingly and just attach that new coding to Hatchet's account and see if he can do it.


I could try, but now you're just being silly.



Before you say anything to me Hatchet, just realize that if you bash me in return for my words, it is not real courage that you are showing.


No, but it is getting a point across in a civil logical manner.


Realize that I am much bigger and stronger than you and that if you ever had the chance to say what you might want to say to me, to my face, that I would have to crush your tiny body.


I doubt it... ~_^


Saying something personal about me over the net does nothing to anger me; it just makes me chuckle at your pitiful weakness.


I don't know man, you seem pretty angry to me...


I believe that Wraithlin is pretty strong, too, so I wouldn't mess with him, either, if I were you.


I disagreed with Wraith, big deal. Wraith is man enough to take a difference of opinions for what it is.


Just back off and quit your stupid bid to keep the time you put into this game from losing value.


What value? Far as ingame-to-USD value, my stuff is all worthless. Only time I'd possibly imagine being sent money for $CB was if i wanted to name my T-Shirts. Far aas the playtime of my uber character, have you looked at my page? my strongest char is retired at like 600k MPR at the moment. I'm playing under the same system as everyone else with the big bonus, the BA meaning more, the whole shebang. Only, my BA isn't free. The only value from the game I've ever and will ever receive is the friends I've made, and the countless hours spent enjoying the game, building up, and climbing. Good luck taking that away from me.



WE NEED NEW PLAYERS!!!


Agreed



That is all.


Is it really?

Wraithlin February 6 2010 7:26 PM EST

Turning CB into a game that can net you top 10 in your first 6 months playing is a mistake.

But having the people that just joined unable to spend all thier BA is also a mistake. They have been playing the game for less than a week when they usually first realize they are missing out on attack opportunities, and therefore growth. Another week and they realize that they have to spend all thier BA everyday, for 6 months straight and they've already missed out on half thier daily BA for the first two weeks so are now 1 week behind. Week 3 rolls around and now they realize that the top guys in the game have millions upon millions of spent in game money on gear once they even get that high, that they will have nowhere near in 6 months.

And you wonder why people leave? It's the sense of never having a chance of competing in less than about 5 years.

Yes I agree it would be unfair to all the old vets if all the new guys soared past them and the top 10 were a bunch of 5-6 month players, but it's currently not, and even if the new people got to spend all thier BA, most of them would still not be in the top 10, but they may at least stay with the game..

Wraithlin February 6 2010 7:31 PM EST

Let's take a look now at the most succesful multiplayer online game in history, World of Warcraft.

In 1 month a dedicated player can start competing at the highest level, in 3 months a casual player can start doing it.

The 5 year vets will still roll the floor with them, but at least the new guys get to try thier hand at it.

Transfer that idea over to CB. I agree that closer to a 6 month curve would be better for letting the new guys compete, but if you give them a chance to spend all thier BA, with higher caps, then after 6 months they could be close enough to the top 10 to feel like they are competing.

The gear difference, and overall experience levels would really force them from being actually competitive, but the sense of accomplishment that they could get top 20% might be enough to keep some of them around and hook them into running a few NCBs afterwards.

Joel and I will probably keep playing CB even with the way it is, because we accept that even though it is rough on the new guys, we like the game enough to stick it out anyways. But if your recruitment window is only to have CB diehards play your game instead of a large community, this game will stay around 200 people. You need to cater to the non-diehards if you want a growing community.

Zenai February 6 2010 7:51 PM EST

Turning CB into a game that can net you top 10 in your first 6 months playing is a mistake.


Agreed but the Solution is what right now? The Rolling Bonus suggestion has been hashed out many a time with so many different incarnations that it is not even funny.
But having the people that just joined unable to spend all their BA is also a mistake. They have been playing the game for less than a week when they usually first realize they are missing out on attack opportunities, and therefore growth. Another week and they realize that they have to spend all their BA everyday, for 6 months straight and they've already missed out on half their daily BA for the first two weeks so are now 1 week behind. Week 3 rolls around and now they realize that the top guys in the game have millions upon millions of spent in game money on gear once they even get that high, that they will have nowhere near in 6 months.


You said it Bro and the reason than many a "Vet" including myself has asked that the NUB be only started after the Tutorial is concluded and at least a 2 week time frame for a Learning Curve to go forward in actual NUB time. Or have the Character Option for NUB in Place of NCB for their first run so they could learn the game before screwing up their first few weeks of Game play.
And you wonder why people leave? It's the sense of never having a chance of competing in less than about 5 years.


Once again Wraithlin Yes and No. People will leave for any number of reasons up to and including the Dull coloring of the site. I have heard them all so far and am still waiting for yet more creative one :-)
Yes I agree it would be unfair to all the old vets if all the new guys soared past them and the top 10 were a bunch of 5-6 month players, but it's currently not, and even if the new people got to spend all their BA, most of them would still not be in the top 10, but they may at least stay with the game..


Honestly Fly by Night Players is not something I would want in this game and I am sure that there are many others that think the same way.

Joel and I will probably keep playing CB even with the way it is, because we accept that even though it is rough on the new guys, we like the game enough to stick it out anyways. But if your recruitment window is only to have CB diehards play your game instead of a large community, this game will stay around 200 people. You need to cater to the non-diehards if you want a growing community.


A back and forth battle if you ask me bro. Dies Hards as you call them are what makes or breaks a game. Go and look at WoW again and see if that Formula doesn't speak true. Yes they are the largest Online Gaming Franchise but it is their Die Hard Core that Makes them Stay around. Hash it any way you want but bottom line it is the difference in the Caliber of the player that Sticks with the Game not how Many are there. Players will always be in and out and it is those that stick around that gives it personality and life. In this aspect I think CB is doing pretty good.

Joel just to hammer something in with you bro, Debate/Discussion Happens all the time. Sometimes people are not going to agree with you. In these instances I have learned that sometimes you have to simply agree to disagree and let it go.

Just to make it apparent I for one am Glad to have Wraithlin and Joel around, you bring good ideas and fresh perspectives to this game thank you for sticking with us!

Joel February 6 2010 7:56 PM EST

I guess I have one more thing to add: Hatchetgirl, do you really doubt that I can do whatever I want to your pasty, ferret-looking, weak self? Thats another thing thats easy to say over the net, right? Well, deny reality all you want, it still won't change the fact that you are a mere insect, that my boot would squash, if you were to ever come out from your crack in the wall.

Vaynard [Fees Dirt Cheap] February 6 2010 8:03 PM EST

I believe part of it also is the complete lack of graphics does turn some away. Plus, no offense, but our newest/only theme isn't the most appealing in the world. Even the name we know and love, carnage blender, turns some off because it sounds violent and others off because it's nothing like what they expect/think they're getting.

We do dump a lot of information onto new players all at once, and I'm not sure what can be done about that other than the sandbox idea some people mention. Have only a few trainable spells, no forging, only a few of the 'good' armors in the store (like the leathers). It might not be so bad... as long as they get some sort of reward out of it like a quasi-worthless rare lol. Then start their NUB too so they don't feel like they've squandered time while they were learning.

And I'm sure this will get shot down... but how about a few basic images? I'm not sure if cb could handle it, but here's my idea. Each spell? Put a tiny square with a picture of a cartoon fireball, or a picture to represent each spell/skill. Each weapon would have one as well (or just each rare would work as well). Named weapons/armors could have a glowing version, or let the pic be user uploadable like our user pics. Not sure if cb could handle the extra data, but that's my idea. A little like that would go a long ways.

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 February 6 2010 8:58 PM EST

This thread is important, and should be a place of ideas.

This thread is not a place to have petty arguments and name call. If this continues, I will fine those responsible.

Tabaldak February 6 2010 9:05 PM EST

This is a great game but Vaynard's right about how the name sounds. I tried getting some of my friends and family to join and none would have it partially because just by hearing the name they think the game is all blood and gore.

Soul Crusher February 7 2010 12:43 AM EST

Wow...I expressed some views that probably aren't too popular, and nobody went on a tangent and started personally attacking me cause I have different views. That amazes me. I wish everyone was afforded the same luxury, but this is an imperfect world. Anyways, thanks for letting me speak my mind, in peace. I might just keep you guys around for a while.

Seriously, though, we're discussing why people leave, but I just told you why I stay. This is a good community, and most of us treat each other pretty well, considering all the rivalries and a few isolated pissing contests. Maybe that should be the selling point. Next time you're telling your friends what a sweet game CB is, tell them about the community. I mean, if someone sold me the game and told me "blah, blah, blah...and the community is composed of some pretty good people", I'd give the game a second, or third, chance. Just a thought. I'll go back to my cave, now.

drikx February 7 2010 12:44 AM EST

i'm new
i think a more low profile battle thing. the live feed really isn't important to me at all. why not have the battle info there. that way i can surf the rest of the website. looking at weapons and forums while i go about my business of doing battles.
the ba goes pretty fast. why is the max set at 160? i haven't read the entirety of the forum so idk if it's in there...
equipment needs to go into consideration when figuring ranking. i doubt that my score changed at all when i got a nifty sword or leveled my tattoo or changed some fashion of equipment.
do you people sell money for the game? i'd imagine you'd get a little deng doing that. the worst that would happen would someone would shell out a few hundred and make an absurdly powerful piece of equipment.
umm. i can't think of more things to improve the game(lol a popup window for battling would be interesting)

Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] February 7 2010 12:53 AM EST

Well that was an interesting read.. ^^

I think if our creator jonathan ever had time in I"m sure a busy schedule. That would go along way with the growth of cb. Sure nightstrike is awesome! but he can only do so much by himself. He needs help!

Sickone February 7 2010 1:16 PM EST

Side-question, just how much is NS _allowed_ to do without Jon's direct and sustained involvement ?
I mean that both in a "proper access rights to the server code" way and a "Jon won't get mad at him for doing it" way.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] February 7 2010 1:23 PM EST

at one time ns was bug fixing and jon was doing more of the major game decisions. it seems that ns is doing it all these days, at least if some of the rumors of what he was working on are true. he may be doing it with jon's direction and guidance though but i am just not sure.

Zenai February 7 2010 1:31 PM EST

Interesting Question Sickone. Last I heard was that Jon has final say but other than that NS has equal pull. I believe the only division is NS's lack of being able to play with the core programing of CB....SQL is what it is called I believe.

Quick Rundown from the way I have seen it:

Jon: Works the Heart of the Program
NS: Fleshes it out.
Verifex: Prettifies it.
bartjan: Makes Extension Programs.(like the botcheck trainer)

The rest of the Admins Maintain the Site and oversee the Tourney's.

I may be missing someone who does something important and if I am I apologize.

Apoclyspe February 8 2010 12:56 PM EST

Btw, when i said log in once a day i meant same amount of BA currently generated with a larger limit. Also for people saying some everyone misses BA, yes i agree but alot of people prefer to have a chance at using it all. Also for those so they need to earn the top spot well let them have a chance let them use all there BA. I'm willing to bet most top players have had ample time to build there score with an extreme amount of free time.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] February 8 2010 1:52 PM EST

<serjamkat tin settings, it says that you can enable images in combat??
<novice user images
<novice just the picture folks have chosen for the char
<novice still no visual representation of the fighting...
<serjamkat i see... ty
serjamkat left the room.

Asgarginia February 8 2010 3:32 PM EST

Why do you people leave?

I'll start of this answer with a question... What are you achieving in this game?

You perfect your strategy, you spend countless hours using as much BA as possible and getting the best items possible. You do this by doing the same actions over and over with no variation. Then you reach the top, you're number 5 or 3 or even 1. Now what?

More casual players reach this situation sooner... I know I will never be at the top; so what exactly am I acheiving in this game?

Quite frankly, the answer is nothing. (Of course, there is the enjoyment of the game, and the people). Most web based games have become more complex and CB hasn't evolve much in 6 years.

Yes, you are striving for the top and there is all the enjoyment and challenge in that. But there is nothing once you get there, no new challenge, no reward - just more grind to stay there.

There needs to be more to the game, more things to do with the BA, more ways to use your characters. New players see this game as one where you click 5-10 buttons over and over and over.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] February 9 2010 12:11 PM EST

How is Joel not forum banned? We can do better than this people.

Wraithlin February 9 2010 12:20 PM EST

SQL is what it is called I believe.


SQL is just a language used to interact with a database. I.E. updating and pulling information on all our characters. Or the stats for a spell or item.

Alot of the actual "gameplay" will be written in a different language.

Doesn't change the point of your post, just thought I'd inform you.

FailBoat[SG] February 9 2010 1:58 PM EST

I know I'm not technically a new player after all this time but... The main reason I'll probably never make another team in this game is there is no chance in the bluest of bloody blue hells of me reaching the top. I don't have the money to spend on a NCB to get it that high. And don't tell me that its possible to do it without a serious USD injection because I have yet to see a Non-USD team, started as a NCB, break the top 20 in MPR.

Also, even taking two months off didn't make CB look like it would be any more fun than it was before.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] February 9 2010 2:03 PM EST

Team rocket, non USD team, started as ncb, rank 6th in mpr.

Incompetent Duo, non USD team, started as ncb, rank 9th in mpr. (His ncb ended not too long ago.)

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] February 9 2010 2:05 PM EST

and just wait for DoS and I to finish our NCBs.

QBOddBird February 9 2010 2:08 PM EST


I think drikx had a fantastic idea. Putting all of the fighting in the sidebar and leaving the main window open for browsing would be a FANTASTIC idea. People could play CB while they browse the internet! Does anyone here grasp just *HOW* groundbreakingly awesome that would be?

Anyway, adding in an idea of my own, rather than working separately we should work with other text-based gaming communities, IMO. There's a crowd of people who like text-based gaming, but most do not; instead of trying to pick those people out of the masses, I think we should cooperate with other text-based gaming communities, linking to them from our site in exchange for the same from theirs. We can all make ourselves accessible to the text-based gaming community if we are actually trying to do that, instead of advertising solo.

nov - IDK, I could've sworn we had a trolling rule added to the Unofficial FAQ for a reason.

TheHatchetman February 9 2010 2:10 PM EST

I don't think i'll make the top 20 MPR mark, but I promise you'll see me pushing around the top 10 scores when I'm done with mine ~_^

TheHatchetman February 9 2010 2:41 PM EST

Sorry for the doublepost, but my last post just reminded me of something that totally backs up my point about time spent not being entirely necessary, and people putting too much emphasis on this 95% mark or even 90% of top MPR... Quite simply put, I've never once owned a char on the first column of the MPR listing.

Yet when I brought TheHatchetman (my first char) to the top 10, I had a job, though admittedly not much of a social life due to being the city type living in a kinda rednecky area at the time... When I brought Queen Beee (my second char, bought back when it was like 35-40th in MPR to the top 10, I had 2 jobs, and was on vacation for 2 weeks. When I brought not my NCB (my third char, started from scratch with NCB) to the top 10, I had a job, a girlfriend, and a busy social life. When I brought The Jeckyll Brothers (my last char used) to the top 10, and even got a taste of number one on a few occasions, I was working 40-60 hours a week and spent more time hanging out with friends than at home if you don't count sleeping...

I had the first and second largest evasion in CB at the same time back before people knew it was overpowered. I've owned the largest AC, HoD, SC, and TG simultaneously. I've won several tournaments, and even when I've lost (Damn you Ranger!!!! :P), I've been a "top contender" whenever I've given the effort.

All without USD. All without putting CB before my life, and my priorities.
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002zWB">How many new players you know that quit fast ?</a>