NCB The broken system. (in General)


Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] October 15 2010 12:58 AM EDT

"I made this thread so we didn't have to hijack Novice's tattoo thread anymore ;D"

In the other thread a few individuals said they could hit 5,400,000 MPR or greater. Now call me a skeptic or a non believer but I really don't believe you! Here is my reasoning..

Over all of CB's life time from what I can remember we have had 5 people end there ncb's with a mpr over 4,000,000.

Zenai
LightningRaider
Eliteofdelete
Titan
DoS

Now let's face it both titan and Dos both took advantage of a loophole in the game, and it's no longer possible to do what they did, for good reason.

Zenai and LightningRaider both spent completely insane amounts of USD to end up where they are right now.

Of these runs I consider eliteofdelete's run to be the most impressive just because of the small amount of cash he put into it, and he didn't take advantage of any loopholes.

Now if you combined the techniques of EoD with Zenai and LR. Then maybe it might be possible to reach over 5.4 million mpr or greater. But who in there right mind would shell out that kind of cash? o.o!

Which brings me to my next point Natasha' kind of alluded to it in the other thread.

Both the top MPR's and Power continue to grow BUT score's have been stagnate for over a year now. The future of the NCB is very much in danger if this continues.

And it really sucks how USD based this game is nowadays. Shell out over $1,000 just to buy BA for a ncb.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 15 2010 1:03 AM EDT

yet if someone sold a 5.4m mpr character it would go for much cheaper. the great mystery is if people want high characters why does that market suck so?

Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] October 15 2010 1:22 AM EDT

Ha. Very good question!

That kind of in a roundabout way, is more reasoning that BA prices need to be reduced, lol! ;)

It's just not worth it, to invest in a character when you'll never get your money back.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] October 15 2010 1:27 AM EDT

If you shelled out 500 mil it wouldn't be too hard to take the top MPR with an ncb. (saying 500 mil because that's what $1000 is worth)

Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] October 15 2010 1:32 AM EDT

That might actually be to much, to run a competitive ncb like the one mentioned above. BA should cost somewhere in the 225-300 million range (just a very quick estimate).

DoS [Battle Royale] October 15 2010 2:01 AM EDT

Myself and Titan made it over 5mil mpr. I know for sure I could have made it even if I hadn't had 2 other people save up about 2600 BA combined. Just saying..

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] October 15 2010 2:26 AM EDT

I believe nov got to about 5.7M MPR at the end of the run, we gained about 700k using the "flaw". It could have been higher if someone burned the 95% of BA they said they would while I was out of town for two weeks, when in reality, they hit about 50% at most... That's was you btw. I spent barely any cash on my NCB too. I'm telling you put money down, I'll get 5.4 in my sleep.

Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] October 15 2010 2:46 AM EDT

700k? -,-. Am I reading this right? You hit 500k on day one, and everyone knows the hardest part of the game is the early game. That saved you two weeks of work right there.

Do you count barely any as the million's you spent on transfers back and forth? heck, your right it probably costed you under $1,000 CBD to purchase 1600 BA time and time again lol! I guess you did save money ;p

Here that nov! put $300 down and you have yourself a leveler.

More USD go figure! haha



Sickone October 15 2010 9:13 AM EDT

This discussion is sadly pointless.
Jon is... has... umm... won't do anything.
And he won't let anybody else do anything about it either.
No idea why (sarcasm).

Demigod October 15 2010 10:46 AM EDT

And he won't let anybody else do anything about it either.

Do we know that for certain? I know the old Jon wouldn't, but apathetic Jon might.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 15 2010 11:00 AM EDT

i disagree sick for one simple reason, clan rituals. either they were done with jon's knowledge and approval or they were done without him knowing about it. wouldn't either one negate your premise?

horseguy001 [Battle Royale] October 15 2010 11:08 AM EDT

This thread has existed since I started CB. I even started one myself.

I spent close to $1000 a few years back for the equips and price of BA and I did crack the top 10. However I only hit about 75% of the top mpr.

The problem then is the same as it is now: The calculation assumes 100% challenge bonus the whole way up. Until that changes, nothing will change with the NCB.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 15 2010 11:14 AM EDT

That's not quite correct.

The bonuses consider you getting the exact same bonus the top guy got. So if the number one team has an average of 90% challenge bonus over it's lifespan, then you'll need to hit that amount to to reach the 95% MPR target.

Buying BA daily is a much larger problem for the NCB.

I've got a relatively small 483% bonus and my BA costs 6,254 a pop, or just over 1 Million a day. You cannot match this cost with incoming cash, which forces you to either buy with USD, or not fight with all your daily BA, which means you won't hit the 95% target regardless.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 15 2010 11:19 AM EDT

i truly wish that jon had never stated that the n*b should take people to x percent of the top mpr. then it really could be seen for what it is.

in cb1 you had no way of really moving other than the ones above you quitting or playing less than you. it is my opinion that most of the problems with the ncb is that most people think they are guaranteed a certain mpr when done, or should be.

when the bonus was only 413 percent, my run made it to just under 4m mpr about a year ago now. there are two ways to look at this achievement. it is underwhelming due to the fact that it did not make the magic number we were promised or it is amazing compared to the chances for catching up in cb1.

add to that the fact that it cost me nothing more than my time and i am damned proud of it! perception is pretty much everything in my humble opinion.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] October 15 2010 12:55 PM EDT

I spent close to $1000 a few years back for the equips and price of BA and I did crack the top 10. However I only hit about 75% of the top mpr.

In the current system, if I spent $1000, I'm confident I could take the top spot (MPR), I could have with the char I sold two nov with under two buys when I sold it ( around $500 for both buys). I'm not saying this because I'm cocky. Nat, DoS, Sk, EoD... there's quite a few people that could do it with the right planning and money. People just like hand outs.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] October 15 2010 1:06 PM EDT

Ok, let me go on the record and say that I do not think the NCB is perfect. Nor do I think it is the best possible bonus system out there. I actually think it is both to easy and to hard. For someone who wants to put hard work into the game and spend money, it is much to easy. A year into the game, with the right amount of money (assuming you learn quickly) even without the NUB, and you could be in the top spot. Also, if you completely screw up an NCB, or waste a year, no biggie, NCB. It's also much to hard for the casual gamer, or people who are new or don't have a good concept of strategy. Because the N*B is condensed to such a small time frame, it makes it "do or die" for six months. Problem is not too many people can do it. There are other systems, where users would be rewarded for playing continuously, and not in 6 month spurts. Which is what I would prefer.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] October 15 2010 1:07 PM EDT

too easy and too hard*

horseguy001 [Battle Royale] October 15 2010 1:44 PM EDT

Now and then were very different. The USD/CB rate was more then double what it is now (possibly as high as $6-$7/mil), and the time period for the N*B was only 4 months.

I have never been one looking for "handouts," and I don't really complain about anything I have done during my time here. My only gripe is the N*B should be exposed for the fraud it is.

I could spend $10,000 and not worry about it, but thats not the point. The point is the N*B doesn't work unless under the most extreme, heavily funded, meticulously planned circumstances. Thats OK, but TELL us instead of keeping it this terrible secret.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 15 2010 2:15 PM EDT

There is so much win in this thread. ;)

I find myself agreeing to just about all of the latest posts.

Zenai October 15 2010 2:58 PM EDT

I could spend $10,000 and not worry about it, but thats not the point. The point is the N*B doesn't work unless under the most extreme, heavily funded, meticulously planned circumstances. Thats OK, but TELL us instead of keeping it this terrible secret.


It's not a secret trust me everyone knows or has heard about it. The problem is that noone can seem to agree on a new system to implement. Even further even if everyone found this "magical" system to agree on it still means jack squat if it is not implemented.

Aside from this I totally agree, even with massive planning, funding, resources, and strategical advice/help I still fell short of the elusive 95% MPR.

Now stepping away from this I agree with dudemus, through all of the hard work, late nights, deal wheeling, bloodshot eyes I believe I did a pretty good job on FGoD. It could have been better sure but still I'm proud of the outcome :-)

QBOddBird October 15 2010 4:17 PM EDT

I actually think it is both to easy and to hard. For someone who wants to put hard work into the game and spend money, it is much to easy.

I feel that these two should be separated: "someone who wants to put hard work into the game and spend money."

Spending a mass amount of USD on a game should not be part of the required formula for 'hard work.' Provide an edge? Certainly. But it should not be equated with hard work as a necessary condition.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] October 15 2010 4:21 PM EDT

USD is not necessary to get ahead. It just makes things easier.

QBOddBird October 15 2010 4:34 PM EDT

NCB is 6 months long, and BA currently costs me just over a mil a day, more as it progresses

180 days @ 1m/day is a lot of money

Assuming i could manage 350k a day, I'd be saving for 515 days to afford to purchase BA each day of the NCB

No, USD is all but necessary for your average player, not counting those who have a corner on any given market

horseguy001 [Battle Royale] October 15 2010 5:42 PM EDT

Don't forget hiring if you want to go that route. I hired 3 minions at 1 mil mpr and then 2 mil mpr and at it was a lot of $$$$$ out my $$$$$ on top of all the $$$$$$ for everything else. $$$$$ $ $$$$$ $$$$ $$$$. Money.

QBOddBird October 15 2010 5:44 PM EDT

I also didn't account for equipment expenses. You'll spend money on gear for whatever strategy you run, and far more if you're a tank, given that you'll have to rent/borrow until you can use your full-sized weapon at the end of the run.

Zenai October 15 2010 7:20 PM EDT

Ok my two cents on CBs Regular and NCB gameplay.

Regular Playing is a terrible terrible grind but if done right can have a few upsides(making your own goals) and you can still move ahead albeit very slowly. Every Milestone you get to is a wonder in and of itself.

NCB Playing is a horrible uphill battle from day one and the lower levels are a quagmire of bleh Score-MPR Ratios. Still though can be awesome to see your Char rise through the Ranks. You become addicted to the fast pace, Milestones become a Blur.

Now to get to the point I'm trying to make. For Top Tier Competitive Play at the kind of breakneck speeds that a lot of people seem to want then the only answer is indeed USD injections or indentured servitude for the rest of your CB Life.

Not to say that non USD runs cannot happen and be competitive at the same time but they will just not make the same marks as a funded one can.

This simple rule also applies to Regular Gameplay. You can make it without USD but it is quite a bit harder to do so and takes much longer.

As Nat pointed out USD makes it easier, I prefer to say it only Boosts you to the next level of OMG problems and difficulties but it still applies.

Something should be done to alleviate this situation, I unfortunately do not have an answer other than a few of the Rolling Bonus Ideas that seems to only cause huge Debates in the Forums.

Sickone October 15 2010 7:59 PM EDT

i disagree sick for one simple reason, clan rituals. either they were done with jon's knowledge and approval or they were done without him knowing about it. wouldn't either one negate your premise?

Clan rituals are a minor alteration in the grand scheme of things. The most they could possibly influence is about 15% growth tops, but more realistically, about 5% growth at most of the time, if even that much (since even a barely-active clan manages a near 10% bonus anyway, so the practical difference between them existing or not existing is minimal).
They're basically a shiny, tiny coat of paint over whatever already was in place. And I don't particluarly like (not dislike) it either. I don't feel it really adds anything except some glitter.

Reworking the way the N*B system affects gameplay is... well, let's just say, something akin to open-heart surgery in comparison.
It's not entirely impossible, just quite unlikely.

Reignmaker [Battle Royale] October 15 2010 8:01 PM EDT

I mentioned this is another thread: it's stupid to keep discussing the same things over and over because not only will you people never agree with each other, the people at the top will easily just ignore any points you make, no matter how well thought out and organized your ideas are.

One day I'll stop being lazy and put together statistics but I estimate that the same few game mechanics topics spring up month, after month, after month.

QBOddBird October 15 2010 8:09 PM EDT

Thank you for your valuable contribution to this thread

Godpanda October 15 2010 8:44 PM EDT

Woo! Bonus discussions! All the rage nowdays.

And how can you really get anywhere with it?

I mean... This game should have never been balanced around USD. There's simply no way at all to balance it around USD while keeping it fair for everyone else.

It's like trying to price things to be easily available to the poor but significantly priced to the super wealthy. Either the poor won't be able to afford it (Like CB is now) or the rich will scoff at it. And would that be so unappealing?

People who use USD are doing it for an edge. Now it seems like CB tried to reduce that edge at everyone else's suffering. So USD users still have an edge, but not quite as big a one. And non-USD players can't hire minions, run a full out NCB or play a tank.

Would it be so terrible to let the USD players do what they're going to do anyways, but cheaper? And let everyone else play the game according to their own skill, not their wallet sized and what is "okay" for non-USD people to run.

To me, it's not a matter of the bonus. It's the matter of the costs of things. If players could simply afford the BA, we'd know whether or not the NCB was worth it.

My second point is on the nature of "skill" in this game. Tell me, where is the skill in simply being a higher MPR than someone else? It's there, it's just not really defined. The skill is mostly in building a higher EXP earning strategy. The rest has nothing to do with skill. It's how much time you can be on, whether or not you have a smart phone, how much sleep is rational for you, how much sleep you can live off of. Etc. These things are dedication, not skill. They should be rewarded when done, sure. But they are not the mark of a "skilled" CB player, one would hope.

Skill is in managing the strategy. Picking the gear that works and balancing your team against the teams around you. I can't even imagine a game, a game that promotes itself as a completely PLAYER VS PLAYER game, doing what CB has effectively done. Stopped, to a large degree, the player versus player part. For a huge amount of the player base, the game is MPR vs MPR. "Oh, his NCB died at 3.5 mil MPR. I'm at nearly 6 mil. No competition at all." We should want players close to each other MPR wise! Want actual fighting and farming of the higher ranks where the chosen strategy matters more than your 1 million MPR advantage.

I'm not saying make it a free "Derr, I lick windows on the shortbus" ride to competitive range. But I'm saying that too much of the "skill" in CB involves getting out of the range of actually having to play the game!

I just wonder how much more exciting CB would be if everyone was playing in the same basic range of MPR. Where strat changes were made to get more than one single player on your list or off another's list.

And I really feel like it would be as simple as hugely cutting down on BA costs.

Sickone October 15 2010 9:30 PM EDT

You know what you CAN do ?

Two things, very simple things, but which will never be done.

1. REMOVE the ability to purchase BA. Increase regular rewards accordingly.

2. Change the fixed-amount-determined-at-start fixed-duration N*Bonus into a constant but always variable "distance from top MPR" bonus (with a certain top cap value for very low MPRs, of course)

Sickone October 15 2010 9:32 PM EDT

Optionally,

3. REMOVE minion purchase cost. New minions start at 0 XP.

QBOddBird October 15 2010 9:39 PM EDT

3. REMOVE minion purchase cost. New minions start at 0 XP.

Single minion ftw, purchase defensive kill slots before logging off, remove when you return so your XP is not diluted

Sickone October 15 2010 9:54 PM EDT

Make it a 7-day or a 30-day cooldown for dismissing a newly hired minion and you're fine.

Zenai October 15 2010 10:41 PM EDT

Eaglestar 8:01 PM EDT I mentioned this is another thread: it's stupid to keep discussing the same things over and over because not only will you people never agree with each other, the people at the top will easily just ignore any points you make, no matter how well thought out and organized your ideas are.

Unfortunately True since most of CB refuses to agree on much of anything on a whole.

One day I'll stop being lazy and put together statistics but I estimate that the same few game mechanics topics spring up month, after month, after month.


QBOddBird 8:09 PM EDT Thank you for your valuable contribution to this thread.

1) Was that really necessary OB?
2) What is the problem with him voicing his opinion? Which btw I also said in a round-a-bout way.
3) Why is it that you can say something like this and you think it perfectly fine but if I do it all of a sudden I am the forum devil and it is your sworn duty to exorcise me?

My Conclusion: You sir are being a Hypocrit as it suits your purposes to make yourself right.

Zenai October 15 2010 10:43 PM EDT

Stupid phone >.<

One day I'll stop being lazy and put together statistics but I estimate that the same few game mechanics topics spring up month, after month, after month.

I will await that list!

QBOddBird October 15 2010 10:43 PM EDT

I thanked him for his opinion. Stop trying to de-rail this thread like all the others, and get back on topic. Kthxbai

Zenai October 15 2010 10:50 PM EDT

No you were being a jerk and chunking Sarcasm at him and I called you on it. Notice though that I had answered him as well as you OB so no true derailing other than me calling you out like you call me in every thread you deam it necessary to protect the masses. Don't like it much do you? Then stop doing to me otherwise I will hold you to the exact same standards that you so nicely impose on me.

QBOddBird October 15 2010 10:51 PM EDT

In the name of Jon, get thee out of this thread, forum devil. I exorcise you.

Godpanda October 15 2010 10:55 PM EDT

Can you two little kittens not use the same litterbox without fighting? I'll give you both to Shinobu if you can't get along!

Total kittens, the both of you.

AdminTal Destra [Forge Of Norn] October 15 2010 10:56 PM EDT

I'm tired of seeing threads derailed when they are just about to get somewhere...


Stay on topic people!!!


/kill self

Zenai October 15 2010 10:56 PM EDT

2. Change the fixed-amount-determined-at-start fixed-duration N*Bonus into a constant but always variable "distance from top MPR" bonus (with a certain top cap value for very low MPRs, of course)

You mean some type of Sliding Scale?

OB: Go to Hell, I'll be there waiting for you >;-D

QBOddBird October 15 2010 10:58 PM EDT

No thanks, ima keep chillin up here with my homies god and buddha

Zenai October 15 2010 11:03 PM EDT

Can you two little kittens not use the same litterbox without fighting?

Apparently not since he thinks that he can regulate me.

OpVines did make a good point though since it is quite true that no one seems to want to agree accept to disagree...vehemently most of the time.

OB: Denial gets you no where. Stop attempting to regulate me and I'll do the same. That is the deal period.

QBOddBird October 15 2010 11:06 PM EDT

Dude, if you would stop saying stupid things in the forums, you'll never have a problem with me again. In fact, we'd probably have never had a problem at all. You know that, right?

Godpanda October 15 2010 11:09 PM EDT

Oh, the joy. The community. The wonder of CB.

A QB and a member of the player council trolling each other, utterly off topic and without real cause.

If this was my first time on this forum, it'd be my last. As is, I'm just slightly amused. And annoyed.

One of you needs to grow up. And, more importantly, needs to grow up without making a post saying "Despite how utterly dumbheaded the dumb person above me is, I, the master of Being Awesome, will take the high road unlike Sir Dumbington. I am obviously the better man. Praise me!"

Zenai October 15 2010 11:11 PM EDT

Dude, if you would stop saying stupid things in the forums, you'll never have a problem with me again. In fact, we'd probably have never had a problem at all. You know that, right?

It is not you freaking job to tell me what to do ESPECIALLY when you are doing the exact same things. You are NOT an Admin and until you are you can go to hell for all I care. I have the right to my opinions and have the right to voice them, when an Admin tells me that I have crossed a line then I will digress. Not because of you OB get used to that fact, as long as you come after me is as long as I come after you.

Gunny Pew Pew [Red Permanent Assurance] October 15 2010 11:11 PM EDT

Quit stealing my lines.

Newlin [SeeD] October 15 2010 11:12 PM EDT

I, the master of Being Awesome

You should all refer to me as this from here on :)

Zenai October 15 2010 11:13 PM EDT

GW: Actually I'm saying back off of me and I'll back off of you. Nothing in there saying I'm better or anything like that.

Gunny Pew Pew [Red Permanent Assurance] October 15 2010 11:13 PM EDT

Slayer would ban you.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 15 2010 11:15 PM EDT

when the fish just leap into the boat it really doesn't pay to have a master baiter on board. ; )

QBOddBird October 15 2010 11:15 PM EDT

It is not you freaking job to tell me what to do ESPECIALLY when you are doing the exact same things. You are NOT an Admin and until you are you can go to hell for all I care. I have the right to my opinions and have the right to voice them, when an Admin tells me that I have crossed a line then I will digress. Not because of you OB get used to that fact, as long as you come after me is as long as I come after you.

Tell you what to do? I was just offering friendly advice.

You clearly cannot tell the difference between a sarcastic remark - protip, that's what I did in this thread - and a condescending statement combined with a poorly constructed, faulty argument, defended to the death like a captain going down with his sinking ship.

You are absolutely right. You have every right to voice your opinion on this forum. And I have every right to tell you I disagree with it. Maybe one day, you'll stop considering that a personal attack, and will learn that people disagree with you. Maybe one day, you'll grow up. Probably not.

GW: I agree, this will continue until one of us is the bigger man. But I refuse, as I find his frantic attempts at counterpointing to be amusing, and....well, Z would have to be a man to be the bigger one, right?

Zenai October 15 2010 11:16 PM EDT

Indeed since he is Awesome Incarnate!

QBOddBird October 15 2010 11:17 PM EDT

GW: Actually I'm saying back off of me and I'll back off of you.

Really? Who attacked who in this thread? I'm so confused!

Man with Knife: HA! *stab*

Other man: Ouch dude, that hurt.

Man with Knife: Back off me, and I'll back off you!

Other man: uh...wut





i hope you liked my screenplay

Zenai October 15 2010 11:18 PM EDT

OB: All I see is blah blah blah. Back off and I will period, it's that simple.

Sickone October 15 2010 11:36 PM EDT

*sigh*

Zenai October 15 2010 11:39 PM EDT

Sickone:

2. Change the fixed-amount-determined-at-start fixed-duration N*Bonus into a constant but always var MPR" bonus (with a certain top cap value for very low MPRs, of course)

You mean some type of Sliding Scale?

Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] October 16 2010 12:51 AM EDT

This isn't the first time you two have taken over MY thread, with your own personal affairs. I take it super personally.

Admin please close this.

Sickone October 16 2010 1:53 AM EDT

You mean some type of Sliding Scale?

I mean something like this (XP only bonus):
0%-5% of top MPR : 900% bonus
5%-95% of top MPR : bonus = 900% * (95%-Your%)/90
95%-100% of top MPR : no bonus

Replace 900% with whatever you feel appropriate.
Could even be variable in time too, set at, for instance, whatever 2*N*Bonus would have been.
You can set a separate gold-only bonus for new characters if you want, even keep the current one.

This XP-only bonus would be permanently active on all (non-tournament) characters at all times, regardless of age.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 16 2010 3:03 AM EDT

http://www.carnageblender.com/poll/poll-results.tcl?poll_id=464

Reignmaker [Battle Royale] October 16 2010 5:30 AM EDT

I'm sorry, OB, if you thought my post wasn't contributing to this topic. I'm sorry it's so much easier of you to be dismissive of my post instead of considering if what I posted contained any value of truth.

Please, if I am wrong, let me know. Because of how I see it, no one who really posts in these threads really "contributes" anything. Surely I am completely wrong and someone as intelligent as yourself can articulate how these dozens of threads within the last few months have resulted in any kind of real change in the game.

If not, I implore you to stop trolling me and dismissing me for no reason.

horseguy001 [Battle Royale] October 16 2010 6:33 AM EDT

...and here I was excited to see all the new discussion being had at 61 posts. Not what I was hoping for. Keep in mind new players read this forum too, and if anyone has it out for each other suck it up and keep it to chatmail. Seriously.

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 October 16 2010 7:22 AM EDT

Closed.

Faith in humanity sufficiently lost.
This thread is closed to new posts.