GA change idea (in General)

MonkeyMandate [Wasting Time] December 7 2010 5:37 AM EST

My idea for ga is the following. GA has a set 0.4 reflect however the level is the amount of damage GA can take before the 'Guardian Angel departs'. I think this would be a more balanced version as at the moment GA is a bit over powered and this way the benefits of GA will be kept, whilst making a more viable defense against it.

Comments, has it been mentioned before?

lostling December 7 2010 5:44 AM EST

frankly nobody will be complaining about GA if it doesnt work on AS

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] December 7 2010 7:56 AM EST

Lostling: That statement is true, not every player uses AS. The ones that do use it though would be grateful if that change happened though.

MM: Basically turning it into a Conjured Familiar eh? Interesting Concept. Although I would say this would make it Very vulnerable to Mega Damage Strats like I had with FGoD (and my massive ELB). All it takes is their char out lasting them and pounding them like mad. Maybe a better solution would be a mixture of Ranged and Melee Damage combined to reach X Quota to make the GA Depart.

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] December 7 2010 7:57 AM EST


lostling December 7 2010 8:05 AM EST

you misunderstand me... i mean GA working together with AS thats the main reason anyone will complain

Sickone December 7 2010 8:10 AM EST

All it really needs is a rescale in potency (trained level vs effect) to mirror the rescale in raw damage that was made (quite a long) while ago which left GA a little bit too strong in the XP-spent-vs-usefulness department.

Sickone December 7 2010 8:12 AM EST

horseguy001 December 7 2010 9:01 AM EST

If GA didn't work with AS it would be almost useless except in extreme circumstances (Nat's team comes to mind).

I agree it needs a rescale but don't kill it completely. It's really the only counter to massive ranged damage without a huge influx of NW into AC/DBs/Exbows. Just put it right on par with the damage rescale at 33% more of an effect needed for the same return on damage.

horseguy001 December 7 2010 9:04 AM EST

Wiki: GA has reduced effect when its level is low relative to the damage done. GA level should be about 2.5 times the damage done to get full 60% retaliation.

Basically make GA effect need to be ~3.5 times the damage done to get full retaliation, and change it so all AC reduces it and that should bring it in check.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 7 2010 10:43 AM EST

since the damage rescale, people have stated that ga needs to be rescaled as well. i have never really understood that since it is percentage based on damage dealt it automatically rescaled. in effect let's pretend damage was cut in half:

pre-rescale if 2m damage was done ga fully reflecting would give back 1.2m.

post-rescale 1m damage would be dealt thus reflecting back only 0.6m.

with it being percentage based on damage dealt, why does everyone say it should have been rescaled when damage was?

Lochnivar December 7 2010 10:51 AM EST

I assume to increase the xp investment needed dude...

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 7 2010 10:54 AM EST

but that really would have nothing to do with the damage rescale?

you still have to break a threshold based on damage done and damage done went down in the rescale thus the threshold effectively went up for xp spent.

it is fine if people say it was always too much bang for the buck and i can't really say, but tying it to the damage rescale is what i am trying to figure out here.

Lochnivar December 7 2010 11:05 AM EST

you still have to break a threshold based on damage done and damage done went down in the rescale thus the threshold effectively went up for xp spent.

Wouldn't the threshold have gone done?
400k damage = 1mil GA for max return
200k damage = 500k GA for max return

The only legitimate complaint I can see is that it now leaves more xp available for training other attributes while still being able to hit the 0.6 max return.

lostling December 7 2010 11:07 AM EST

refer to my last posts

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 7 2010 11:15 AM EST

actually the threshold remained the same relative to damage taken. to return a million damage requires the same ga level as it did before.

the threshold did change relative to the xp spent on damage by the other team. i guess that is what people mean but that seems rather tenuous to me. the creator did base it on damage dealt rather than xp put into that damage, i guess that could have been lack of foresight but i do believe this was a hot topic before he left, did he ever weigh in on it after the damage rescale?

Pwned December 7 2010 11:18 AM EST

If it was me... I would be like......owell guess NS gotta deal with it mwuhahahahahaha

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] December 7 2010 11:49 AM EST

2.5*(1.33) is hard to code?

Pwned December 7 2010 11:51 AM EST

Lol not the code the massive uproar.

Sickone December 7 2010 1:56 PM EST

the threshold did change relative to the xp spent on damage by the other team. i guess that is what people mean but that seems rather tenuous to me.

Yes, that's exactly what's meant.

Before, you needed X amount of XP sunk into GA to counter a certain ranged weapon, DD or melee weapon.
After the damage rescale, you only needed X*0.66 to fully punish the same ranged weapon or enemy DD and only X*0.44 to fully punish the same melee weapon.
...and that when DM/RoS is not at all involved.
When DM or RoS is involved, it might very well be the difference between almost no damage returned to almost full damage returned for the exact same previous situation.

So, yeah, GA should have received some degree of "nerfing" alongside the damage rescale, anything between *0.66 to *0.5 effectiveness (+50% to +100% XP needed for same end effect compared to the CURRENT post-damage-rescale situation).

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 7 2010 1:59 PM EST

that would be assuming jon wanted it scaled relative to cost of damage.

it seems clear to me that he wanted it scaled relative to damage dealt regardless of cost due to the fact that the way the description for the spell is written.

in reality they are both simply opinions though. ; )

horseguy001 December 7 2010 2:45 PM EST

Lol not the code the massive uproar.

Oh please. People that are actually investing in GA wouldn't notice that big of a change. Might not even change anyones fightlist at all. It's more to fix the nice damage returns on a low level of investment.

The only people that overpower my GA right now are double my PR anyways. By the time I am their size my GA will (and AC too) will be big enough to handle it, even with the proposed change.
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