Tattoo leeching (in General)

QBRanger June 30 2011 12:46 AM EDT

Here is an idea that I have given a small amount of time.

What if you could leech levels from a lower level tattoo to add to an existing tattoo?

At a 1 to 10 ratio.

That would make tattoos in the lower ranks perhaps much more useful than now.

I have a 6.7M level tattoo that sells to the store for 19M. I could either get the 19M or get 600k levels on my existing tattoo.

I see someone has a bunch of 1-4M level tattoos. They could be sold to the store, or perhaps people would buy them to leech levels.

With MTL, there would never be a "super" tattoo out there.


AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] June 30 2011 12:49 AM EDT

Hmm, I'm on the fence with this one. It's a scary idea but it could definitely work. It might be better to have it give levels on like a ratio similar to AMF or something, that way the larger your tat gets the larger you need tats to do the leaching or it adds virtually no levels, but it doesn't need to be like that.

Duke June 30 2011 12:49 AM EDT

I am not again the idea as tat level will have more use but its will mostly help heavy USD spender.

Waiting for someone to post a DBZ fusion pic now.

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] June 30 2011 12:54 AM EDT

I think this is a good idea but I would make it's effectiveness a bit lower than that, 1:12.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] June 30 2011 12:55 AM EDT

1:12 makes sense its the amount of exp 1 lvl takes.

QBRanger June 30 2011 12:57 AM EDT

I just used 1:10 as a round number that was easy to calculate.

I would also suggest that the entire tattoo is consumed in the process.

Or one can even have a new supporter item that lets you use this process 1 time. If people want to do it to multiple tattoos, more supporter items needed = more money to Jon and NS.

Just a thought.

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] June 30 2011 1:18 AM EDT

I don't think it would help USD users....I have tons of old mid range tattoos that I have to sell to the store as they are useless. Would be nice to get my larger tattoo up to my max tattoo level.

IPoop June 30 2011 1:43 AM EDT

nice idea but the flaw is once its gone it would be gone

I agree there are lots of middle level tatts around doing nothing but for anyone restarting the game or a new player after a month of this new change there would be no mid level tatts left.

Any new/returning player would have to lvl there tatt right from base up so will probably never catch the top teams tatts.
Everytime a top team comes up for sale with its gear a sensible USD player would buy there tatt for a super boost.
(i think in the last 2 months theres been two or three of the top 20 tatts up for sale - definatly a couple of big ones anyway).
Okay you get the kill/armour slots but people already pay extra for the better minion with a similar ratio of experience boost when hiring a new minion .. spending CB/USD on this suggestion would be a totally sensible thing to do

people are already power leveling etc ... this would just give a couple of months of everyone gobbling tattoos and then what?

*something does need doing really as there are loads of tattoos lay around doing nothing but this would go from one extreme to the other

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] June 30 2011 1:47 AM EDT

I don't think it will take it all the way to the other extreme. The demand for medium sized tats will go way up though.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] June 30 2011 2:32 AM EDT

I would exploit this, with or without USD, just saying.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 30 2011 3:15 AM EDT

Easily exploited. Always having your Tattoo at your MTL? Never needing to level it?

Sorry, Tattoo's are too integral and powerful to CB as it is. Giving those with the most cash (CBD or USD) the ability to literally ignore levelling their tattoo, while everyone else suffers (as all the Tattoo's are bought by those wiht the most cash) isn't fun.

Nor I dare say positive gameplay for CB.

Xenogard [Chaotic Serenity] June 30 2011 3:36 AM EDT

I kind of sit on both sides of the fence for this one. I very much like the concept, I could benefit from a max level tat and I used to have a handful of smaller tats that would've helped push me towards it.

Oh the other hand I can see this very easily being exploited so that most teams -always- have their max tats. For some of the people higher up sitting with like 22m for their max tat while only having a 16-18m tat could easily afford to get a few smaller level tats and get theirs giving them a massive boost in effectiveness. Sure everyone can do it, but to a much lesser degree IMO.

I'd think the ratio would have to be far bigger then anyone in this thread has suggested so far for it to really be a fair option, something that is very costly in the long run.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 30 2011 6:18 AM EDT

i don't know that we need to make it easier for people to quit the game and come back and catch up. if we do want to do this then i would prefer it be a straight micro-transaction with all proceeds going to the devs.

this would also create an unlimited supply of tat levels so that it would be available to all equally, as long as they could pay. if this isn't done then the possibility exists that all available tats will disappear fairly quickly benefiting only those currently in the game and not future players.

Xenogard [Chaotic Serenity] June 30 2011 6:41 AM EDT

^ I'd support dudemus's way of implementing it if it would help the devs. More Dev money = more incentive/time they can spend working on the game and improving it and doing all the things we've been asking about. Anything that directly helps the game itself and not just the in-game economy is a good thing in my opinion.

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] June 30 2011 7:56 AM EDT

Well if this is the case Ladies and Gentlemen then this would definitely not be a small change. Balance would have to be on all sides including the economy. Players already hoard items, partially because they cannot sell them due to little demand. For something like this the Demand for tats should skyrocket. As a result the economy will be boosted I do not see this as being a bad thing. I would stipulate some things though and that would be Limit how it works to avoid massive exploits.

1:12 Ratio (Any smaller and this would not be worth it.)

Limit the size of the Tattoo that would be Consumed(A % of Tat being boosted,60%?)

Limit how many times a Tattoo can be boosted in this way.(Per Quarter, Once?)

Unappreciated Misnomer June 30 2011 9:09 AM EDT

I would support Dudemus and his Idea, it is fair and balanced. Tattoos only grow at 2/3 your mtl 4% more if named. this gap is a great way to generate income for the game,In turn for the economy a good bonus as demand for cbd Loan services may increase to be sold/exchanged to up ones tattoo.

@Zen: This would only serve to benefit the economy for a time and in a bad way. once there are no tattoos for anyone else to upgrade to as far as insta's are concerned what is left? People would get frustrated.

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] June 30 2011 9:49 AM EDT

TC: I think you missed a very important point, Limited in how many times it could be done by time line per tat. If it were only capable of being done once a year or even every 6 Months with only One tat at a time how would this destroy the tat buildup even over time. Point is we have excess and they are getting sold to stores and being wasted. This would help regulate the problem a bit, and make them useful again by having this done. Plus I would not make this free it would have to cost.

Just to drive a point home if this were nothing but a USD transaction I would abuse the hell out of it. Honestly I think just about everyone with USD would do it just to keep up. Guidelines and rules would need to be set. Of course the same ideas I threw up there could be applied here, Once per year(6 Months) per Tat. Still though this would not solve the underlying problem of low to mid range Tat buildup which was the original idea of the thread. Most players would only worry about the big Tats, honestly would you level a 2 mil tat or a 10 Mil tat with your USD?

Not trying to be argumentative just putting my opinion on the table.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 30 2011 9:51 AM EDT

if done as a micro-transaction we could have it not use a tat but just have your tat work at max tat for a limited time frame. the downside could be that it doesn't grow during that time, so once you start using it, you will likely need to keep using it.

the cost could be ten bucks a month, with discounts for bulk month purchases:

$10 for 1 month
$27.50 for 3 months
$55 for 6 months
$100 for 12 months

in this scenario, you still have to have your tat but not destroy another. at the top, you would have to choose whether to keep growing your tat and keep your pr down and possibly get a challenge bonus still or use the uber tat system and likely not get any challenge bonus and have your tat stop growing. thoughts?

Xenogard [Chaotic Serenity] June 30 2011 10:03 AM EDT

^ I'd go for that idea as well dudemus

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] June 30 2011 10:07 AM EDT

in this scenario, you still have to have your tat but not destroy another. at the top, you would have to choose whether to keep growing your tat and keep your pr down and possibly get a challenge bonus still or use the uber tat system and likely not get any challenge bonus and have your tat stop growing. thoughts?

In a USD scenario I would pay for 12 months and have a 20 Mil level tat and have someone else level my tat so I would not be hindered at all. The drawback would not stop me, it would barely slow me down. Now this would be prime for the lower MPR ranks though but I think any higher than say 2 Mil MPR would be pushing it.

Xenogard [Chaotic Serenity] June 30 2011 10:09 AM EDT

Actually the issue I do see with that last idea dudemus would be people who have the money for it RoE-ing a team up to the top and using a base tat then paying $10 a month or whatever to keep it at its max. Probably not something you'd be seeing a lot of because its expensive, but its still a possibility.

Maybe it should have a range, like you have to have a certain level base tat and it would give you an additional 50% of that tat size or something similar. So if you have a 10m level tat it would give you enough for your max tat, but I couldn't use a base level tat to accomplish the same goal. (Selling my tat for CBD and choosing to pay monthly for a max tat instead.)

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] June 30 2011 10:15 AM EDT

Good point Xeno, another set of rules and guidelines would need to be put in place. Still I think it a good idea as say a N*B running Tat Bonus. Most of the time just getting off the ground is the hardest part this would definitely help to prevent discouragement ;-)

QBRanger June 30 2011 10:18 AM EDT

It would be grossly unfair to people like Novice who spend a lot of time and money leveling his tattoo. I tried to make my suggestion along the lines of benefiting everyone but not punishing those who spent time to level their tattoos in the past.

I am not saying my OP is 100% fair to people like Novice also, but this gives him as well as anyone else a chance to add additional levels to ones tattoo. Novice is about 2M levels under his MTL, which for him would likely be a goal if this comes into play.

IE: right now novice's tattoo is over 7.6M levels higher than mine. For me to bridge the gap now I would need 76M levels of tattoos. Ain't going to happen.

But at least I can get some additional levels.

But there is a huge cost. I have a 6.7M level tattoo that I can sell to the store for 20M. Do I get that 20M additional CB or do I gain 600k levels on my existing tattoo. Right now I am unsure as 20M is a lot of money to upgrade my items.

With Dude's method, USD will prevail much more than now and someone can keep paying to have a base tattoo work as a MTL tattoo. Which is way too powerful.

If people want to have the tattoo levelling ability only 1/3-6 months I feel that would be too infrequent to really help. Esp with someone who has a lot of lower level tats like AK.

How about my idea of an item, possibly supporter, that you need to be able to use the Tat Leveling artist?

But this is of course only my opinion.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 30 2011 10:31 AM EDT

i have busted my butt to get my tat up to one of the top ten tats. it isn't massive but i have put about 3 years and several ncb runs into getting it from one of the top 25 to number 9.

i feel that anything that allows people to play catch up is grossly unfair but it would be more unfair to limit it to current tats as those would then be stockpiled and bought up, even if one couldn't use it now for later or to keep others from using them.

for fairness sake i think my idea works much better as it isn't limited by supply of any sort. i don't like the idea inherently, but if we are going to do it then i like micro-transactions as maybe we can get some more income and thus more dev time.

i am willing to accept a tat catch up program only under those conditions: not limited by supply that can be manipulated and it benefits the game through usd income. anything else is unfair on many levels in my opinion.

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] June 30 2011 10:38 AM EDT

I agree Ranger in that a balance would need to be found, too little and it's not worth it, too mulch and it's OP and unfair.

I would suggest this:

Have the leveling capability ramp down in effectiveness during a time period. Say you want to level your Tat 3 times in a Quarter. It can still be done but losses say 10-20% levels leeched each time. Then when the next Quarter comes up it resets.

Have it cost as much as Supportership.

For Dude's Idea I would segment it to work per MPR level and only at a percentage more than current level tat. So both can get a boost and be used and only be a perk rather than a possible exploit.

Just my thoughts.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] June 30 2011 11:43 AM EDT

How about this, a combo of the two.

1/12 trade up of a lower tattoo.
Can be performed once every six months.
Extra can be purchased for money ($20-50 probably ).
Limit 2 extra per 6 months.

This would let people stay on pretty similiar terms USD or not. It also would limit some of the abuse I had in mind. While still giving the devs a little more incentive.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 30 2011 12:34 PM EDT

i also fear that by basing it on existing tats we will get back into a situation where we are encouraging nub sellouts. we haven't had the sellout problem due to the fact that the value of items is so low.

if we allow tats to be used to boost other tats, then the larger the tat the more people will be willing to pay for it, especially with the limits on how often it can be done. it will be quite tempting for people to run a nub and then sell their tat and either quit or run another nub.

i don't think we need that temptation.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] June 30 2011 12:44 PM EDT

Hmm, yeah, that is a problem dudemus, but I'm not sure if I like the pure USD way. I just think it benefits the USD players too much. If I actually thought that it would be used enough to actually super incentivize development, I'd be all for it, but it'd probably just be used by like 3-4 people here and there to get more ahead. Which would be nice for the developers, but not a huge incentive. It'd be nice if there was something that was semi-inexpensive, had mass appeal, and wasn't game breaking, but essentially offered this side affect of tattoo leeching.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 30 2011 12:52 PM EDT

perhaps tattoo naming could offer some extra benefits and we could add more tiers to the naming with increasing costs for better benefits?

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] June 30 2011 1:02 PM EDT

Hmm, yeah that'd be interesting, but I'd also like something that somehow creates a "middle class" if you will for tattoos, right now it's either huge or it's worthless, we need something to fix that. Although my suggested solution doesn't address this either, I think that it needs to be addressed.
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