CPs: Why NOT on the Players Account again? (in General)


Zenai September 15 2011 9:15 PM EDT

I have to say this because honestly it's depressing and angering all at freaking once. I have been consistent in being in the Top 5 Slots (Usually #1) for CPs in Daily, Weekly and Monthly and yet I keep getting dropped down to 300K points in Yearly.

You know what one of the reasons are? Because CPs belong to the Clan not the Player Account. So if you got a Mil CPs while being in a clan and it gets disbanded by say, lack of CPs overall(-1K) or a pissed off Clan Leader you the player LOSE THEM ALL!

I have to say it I think it is a line of crap imho. Everyone in a clan benefits mutually by accruing CPs in concert. BUT I earned those damned CPs! I not the Clan put in the personal time and effort to accrue them so they SHOULD be MINE!

So I ask why cannot CPs be put on the players account again?


Disclaimer: Yes I am pissy about constantly losing CPs and I feel rightly so imho.

{DF}malS 'lo emaS [Demon Forging] September 15 2011 9:17 PM EDT

Lol rant on z

Adios Muchachos September 15 2011 9:18 PM EDT

here, here!!


(or is it "hear, hear!!")

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] September 15 2011 9:31 PM EDT

I am assuming this will get done... someday

Reyth September 15 2011 9:46 PM EDT

^^^ woot! Said like an admin!

Zenai September 15 2011 9:50 PM EDT

I am assuming this will get done... someday

Not to be a Jerk but you know what happens when you assume. A definitive or some sort of actual explanation on why or why not should be forthcoming hence the question: Why cannot CPs be put on the players account again? can you get the answer to this question Nat?

Reyth September 15 2011 9:56 PM EDT

"I am assuming this will get done... someday"

I recognize this because I work in customer service and I know what its like to work in an organization where the decisions are not up to me but yet I have to represent the company to the public. :D

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] September 15 2011 9:59 PM EDT

This is just me saying this, but I believe its a matter of time available and difficulty and importance of the problem.

Zenai September 15 2011 10:10 PM EDT

I can understand that Nat. Important though is still up to who says what "Important" is defined as. So maybe a bit of understanding of where this would fall since this affects players in clans only.


When TK II got disbanded Shade got hosed for a TON of CPs, I got smacked for a lot myself. Overall I believe that I have lost somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.3 Mil CPs due to clans I have previously been a part of getting disbanded.

Areodjarekput September 15 2011 10:18 PM EDT

It is my understanding that all development being done on this game is being done by people who receive no financial compensation for said development. Not to be argumentative, but if this is bothering you this much, why not provide some financial incentive to the developers to address this issue?

Reyth September 15 2011 10:32 PM EDT

I'd be willing to pay to have the BA limit removed. :P

Zenai September 15 2011 10:35 PM EDT

Not to be argumentative, but if this is bothering you this much, why not provide some financial incentive to the developers to address this issue?

If I could I would Aero trust me. All I am trying to do is cut through the "Customer Service" talk and get to the meat of the issue. The answer to a few simple questions is what I am looking for in order to bolster the original one I asked.

If you assume this means you do not know can you ask?

Importance, difficulty and time are all subjective where does this fall?

Finally why not put CPs on the Players account?

Not really difficult just probably time consuming to get the answers. In the interim just say if you do or don't have the answers......simple.

PS: I absolutely HATE being placated just tell me the truth and I'll be understanding, not happy, but understanding. Everyone has limits I get it I'm dumb not stupid :-P

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] September 15 2011 10:40 PM EDT

Priority: Getting a new supporter item. Its been years.

{DF}malS 'lo emaS [Demon Forging] September 16 2011 12:31 AM EDT

go supporter item

AdminLamuness September 16 2011 4:10 AM EDT

Think of it as a job.

You (henceforth known as the "Player") are putting in the hours for a company (henceforth known as the "Clan"). You spend your hours, days, however much time foregoing everything else into making a great product (earning "CP's"). Should you decide to pursue greener pastures, get fired, company goes bankrupt, etc. etc., in the end the product stays with the company. You take your skills (your great CP mining char) and find a new job elsewhere.

Zenai September 16 2011 6:55 AM EDT

This is a Game NOT a Job and what I work for I should be able to keep.


The Clan Should benefit collectively but if I choose to leave I should be able to take my things and leave. CPs are earned by the player NOT the clan and therefore should not be taken away when the clan goes south.

Case in point I leave the clan I take my CPs and join another clan by your definition I should no longer have my CPs Lammy but I still do until the other clan disbands. Now you cannot have it both ways. Either allow the player to keep their hard earned CPs with in another clan or force them to lose them as soon as they drop their present clan. As it stands now a player can clan hop and keep their CPs which is a tease if one of their previous clans disbands.

My thought for the fix was to simply put the CPs that the PLAYER earned onto their account rather than with the clan. If you look at it from a "Job Perspective" it is like earning for your 401K you stash money into it they should not be able to take the cash back because you no longer work for the company.

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] September 16 2011 4:06 PM EDT

This is a Game NOT a Job and what I work for I should be able to keep.

It's not a job and thus you didn't work for anything?

Zenai September 16 2011 4:13 PM EDT

Bast let's not do the play on words you know and understand exactly what I mean so cut the crap fair enough?

If I put in the time to get something then I should keep it plain and simple.

Kefeck [BlackSmith] September 16 2011 4:16 PM EDT

It's really just more incentive to stay loyal to your clan. Notice the people at the absolute top? They've been with there sole clans for years.

http://www.carnageblender.com/clans/stats-i.tcl?interval=10+year

QBRanger September 16 2011 4:25 PM EDT

If you look at it from a "Job Perspective" it is like earning for your 401K you stash money into it they should not be able to take the cash back because you no longer work for the company.

This is what is known as vesting. In most companies you have to work a certain amount of years before you get to keep your retirement. Some companies give you a percentage based upon the years you work.

So you can consider CB like vesting in a company. You just have not done it long enough :)

QBRanger September 16 2011 4:27 PM EDT

Hmmm,

Wonder why on the 10 year stats I am here:
QBRanger (3,317,936)

When I have left, rejoined, releft, rejoined etc.. BR a number of times.

I even took a year off of CB.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 16 2011 4:39 PM EDT

i think as long as the clan is in existence, your points will stay even in your absence.

they only truly disappear when a clan is disbanded.

Godpanda September 16 2011 5:49 PM EDT

Zenai, I'm guessing you didn't really get Natasha's point.

The reason this isn't happening is because NOTHING is happening. There is incredibly limited development time on the game right now and it's not the fault of the developers who's only crime is having a life.

Maybe this is on a long list of planned changes for the game. But I can't imagine it being the most important (Or the easiest/quickest). And, even more importantly, I certainly hope they have more important things to do than getting on the forums to calm one or two irate players.

So many players refuse to look at CB's situation logically right now. Thinking of new ideas, posting about them, talking about them are all GREAT things to do. But once you become angry over them, you're crossing the line from hopeful and eager about the future to just annoying and arrogant. No offense meant (truthfully) but you need to be rational about why this change hasn't happened.

You're upset because an admin tries to placate you. That's unreasonable. Sometimes, apologies and plans are all that can be given. All that SHOULD be given.

You want a reason? Let me take a crack at it in simplified terms.

It's not done because the developers don't have time to spend on people's completely useless bragging rights (Which is all overall Clan Points really are, as they have no use after 24 hours, do they?) when there are so many other things their limited time can be used on.

Maybe NS or Jon have another reason it won't/can't be done. Maybe they do have time and hate us. But this reason almost certainly applies RIGHT NOW.

Notice, I'm not against wanting changes. Just people (And I've done this in the past and probably will again) acting entitled to explanations and changes when the answers are so often right there in plain sight, and then getting angry when they don't feel like they've gotten the attention they deserve.

Zenai September 16 2011 6:01 PM EDT

This is what is known as vesting. In most companies you have to work a certain amount of years before you get to keep your retirement. Some companies give you a percentage based upon the years you work.

Why does it HAVE to be the Clan that I vest in? Why can it not be in my char/account like everything else in CBland?

So you can consider CB like vesting in a company. You just have not done it long enough :)

Done it long enough to break into the Top 5 Ranger. Also of note YOUR clan has not been disbanded come back to me when it has and you lose 1+ million CPs then we can talk about this subject on equal grounds.


Dudemus: No offense but have you read the thread? If you have then why state what has already been stated? Please get the idea I am behind, transferring the CP accrual to the Player and not leave them with the clan, after all the Clan did not get those CPs the Player did via the char he/she used and should only be fair that he/she is able to retain them even if their clan gets disbanded.


Just to drive a point home for everyone who has jumped up to say something. Is it the players fault if he/she plays their heart out and accrues massive CPs, does recruiting and no matter what the clan is still disbanded? You guys do realize that this has happened before right? Should the player be punished for being loyal? My answer is Hell NO! This is why I feel the Player should have their CPs on their account. Clans will kick the bucket, some are never gonna stay around, even more will be a flash in the pan, some will just slowly die this should not be the players fault and they should not be penalized for it.

CPs should be on the players account, screw the vestments in something that was made to be disposable ie Clans.

PS: I love my clan and clannies but if things were to go south then everything I have worked for will disappear in a flash. How is that fair to me as a player who has VESTED in CPs, Stayed in the Top 5(usually #1) the entire time?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 16 2011 6:04 PM EDT

zen, i was merely answering the question posted above mine. ; )

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] September 16 2011 6:20 PM EDT

I agree the way it works sucks but it is a stat and not a gameplay issue, I guess it would have a relatively low priority. That said this sort of cosmetic change is the only sort of thing you you are likely to get done as a result of a forum post. (though I suspect this could be more work than other changes of this type which have been made over the last few years)

Zenai September 16 2011 6:28 PM EDT

dudemus: Fair enough I thought it was directed towards me I apologize.

GodZombie/whatever for this month or mood:

Zenai, I'm guessing you didn't really get Natasha's point.

Got it didn't care for the brushoff, and honestly it STILL did not answer the question it merely made the point it was not #1 on the priority list.

The reason this isn't happening is because NOTHING is happening. There is incredibly limited development time on the game right now and it's not the fault of the developers who's only crime is having a life.

Duh didn't say otherwise I just wanted to know if it could even be done.

Maybe this is on a long list of planned changes for the game. But I can't imagine it being the most important (Or the easiest/quickest). And, even more importantly, I certainly hope they have more important things to do than getting on the forums to calm one or two irate players.

Don't know hence why I freaking asked once again duh. I am not expecting them to come and placate me what I am and have been asking os for a straight answeer for once instead of the damned runaround get the point GW/Z/etc etc

So many players refuse to look at CB's situation logically right now. Thinking of new ideas, posting about them, talking about them are all GREAT things to do. But once you become angry over them, you're crossing the line from hopeful and eager about the future to just annoying and arrogant. No offense meant (truthfully) but you need to be rational about why this change hasn't happened.

Who in the hell are you to tell me I am not rational in saying why shouldn't CPs be put on the player's account instead of the clan. I see nothing wrong or illogical in asking that question.

You're upset because an admin tries to placate you. That's unreasonable. Sometimes, apologies and plans are all that can be given. All that SHOULD be given.

That is the biggest line of HORSEPUCKY I have ever heard I most certainly have the right to say, act and feel the way I do and if YOU don't like it dont read or participate in the forum it's that simple.

You want a reason? Let me take a crack at it in simplified terms.

Not from you. Now you know and can keep the explanation to yourself.

It's not done because the developers don't have time to spend on people's completely useless bragging rights (Which is all overall Clan Points really are, as they have no use after 24 hours, do they?) when there are so many other things their limited time can be used on.

I'm dumb not stupids the idea has not passed me by. Once again it was a freaking question.

Maybe NS or Jon have another reason it won't/can't be done. Maybe they do have time and hate us. But this reason almost certainly applies RIGHT NOW.

Got this idea too duh hence why it was a QUESTION. Also why I wanted a simple straight forward answer if you don't have it move along so that the one(s) who can will be able to.

Notice, I'm not against wanting changes. Just people (And I've done this in the past and probably will again) acting entitled to explanations and changes when the answers are so often right there in plain sight, and then getting angry when they don't feel like they've gotten the attention they deserve.

It's not attention I want it is the answer to a simple freaking question is it really that damned hard to answer it?

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] September 16 2011 6:29 PM EDT

On reflection I can accept the mvp leaderboards as gameplay

Zenai September 16 2011 6:37 PM EDT

though I suspect this could be more work than other changes of this type

Exactly what I am trying to find out. Can it be done? If so how hard would it be? Would there be a short/long time frame for it's completion? Then I would ask if there would be anything I could do to help things along. I do not think it unreasonable to ask questions and try to get some answers which is all I am trying to do to begin with.

Xenogard [Chaotic Serenity] September 16 2011 7:05 PM EDT

I hate sports personally, but I'll use them as an example. Say I play for the team A for 5 years, all the points I've scored through out those years stick with me in my career, they are placed in a big book of statistics that rate and compare me to all the other players from every other team. 6 years into my career team A's owner changes and decides to get rid of me forcing me to go find another team, lets say team B. I go over to team B, and my career stats follow me to that team. 4 years later, the new owner of team A decides he doesn't like the name "team A" anymore, he then ditches the former team name and renames it "team X". Now team A no longer exists, but for the sake of record keeping all the statistics of the players during their time with team A remain the same.

This is how I view clans and think they should work, the records and the stats are there, each member of a clan is a part of the team but we all have our own individual stats (amount of CPs gained in this case). The game keeps track of these and this allows players to be/remain competitive if they desire. When you are an MVP in a sport, your record of how many times you've won MVP and all the points you've scored etc etc follow you through out your life. I see no reason why clans aren't viewed in the same light, I mean the game does have 10 year long stats after all.

Again like I said I hate sports so forgive my basic explanation using something I'm not entirely a fan of as an example.

Zenai September 17 2011 9:01 PM EDT

AdminTitan September 17 2011 10:48 PM EDT

Zenai, it's not going to get "fixed" before something else. Something else has a higher priority, even if it's seen as a problem by them. You've already been responded to by 2 admins, there is no need to act like this.

QBOddBird September 17 2011 10:54 PM EDT

I'm dumb not stupids the idea has not passed me by. Once again it was a freaking question.

i lol'd

Zenai September 17 2011 11:38 PM EDT

Titan: I also spoke with people in chat and of course I know what the priority listing is. If you have nothing to actually add to this thread besides attempting to tell me what actions I should take then stop while you are ahead. Nothing you say or how you attempt to discredit me will change what I feel is the correct course of action.

Thank you for your concern though it is duly noted.

OB: Glad it was amusing for you, was for me a bit that I had fat fingers while typing :-)

QBOddBird September 18 2011 12:07 AM EDT

BUT I earned those damned CPs! I not the Clan put in the personal time and effort to accrue them so they SHOULD be MINE!

I think this is specifically why it bothers you. You see them as a personal point accrual, rather than a measure of teamwork within a clan. Why call them Clan Points if they're really Player-Points-That-Accrue-With-Other-Player-Points-For-Bonuses?

Zenai September 18 2011 12:35 AM EDT

Well let's be honest about this OB did the Clan itself earn those CPs or did the player? The Clan itself is a holding cell and not a very good one for that matter. If the clan gets disbanded the player's hard earned CPs go poof as by default the player is penalized.... not cool.

How about the long term effects and explanation that Xeno gave? Honestly I believe that his position is accurate in that no matter what clan a player is with the points should belong to the player.

I said it in chat and I will say it here I honestly do not care how it is done as long as one thing happens and that is: CPs do not simply disappear because a clan disbands.

QBOddBird September 18 2011 12:43 AM EDT

I'm not discounting your point of view, I totally understand wanting the clan points to belong to the player. I'm simply pointing out that, the way they currently work, yes - those clan points belong to the clan, not the player.

The way the clan system is now, you're a team player, and the amount you are contributing to your 'team' is recorded and the clan on the whole is rewarded according to how much teamwork is happening. That is to say, those clan points were contributed by you, but they affect the entire team and a clan cannot usually be carried solely by one person. As a result, CPs reflect your personal contribution to a given clan, and not your contribution to any clan you've ever been in for all time.

That being said, again, I certainly understand why you are feeling the way you do. You would prefer a more individualized system, where your CPs are yours, and they carry over with you if you leave or switch clans. Personally, I'd be fine with that.

The amount of development currently allotted to this game, however, means that while this is a nice idea for you to hope for, it will probably not be enacted within a short timeframe. The issue exists primarily, in my viewpoint at least, as one of perception regarding the purpose of clans and the necessity of saving these "achievement points" moreso than as an actual issue with the way the clan system functions itself.

AdminTitan September 18 2011 1:27 AM EDT

I did add something to this thread. I added a point about how bumping your thread with a blank because you're pissed off and acting like a child is bad. The correct course of action is to drop this thread and let it die and focus your attention on something that is actually worth while. Like getting a new supporter item through, or getting new users involved in this game. Why don't you do something like that instead of throwing a little hissy fit every time something in this game doesn't go the way you like it to?

Zenai September 18 2011 2:52 AM EDT

OB: I get what you are saying however I disagree with your point(s) as far as the Clan System is concerned. Overall only one thing is on my agenda, how to keep CPs from poofing out of existence when a clan disbands. I honestly do not care how this would be implemented. Maybe my idea of putting it on the Player account is just not feasible. Perhaps this is a simple fix as Lammuness said in chat in that it could be simply adding a new field in the right spot.

Titan:

I did add something to this thread. I added a point about how bumping your thread with a blank because you're pissed off and acting like a child is bad.

I said I was frustrated(even had a disclaimer) and imho rightly so since a ton of my hard earned CPs were instantly zapped out of existence. If you decide to say child I can say the same since what I see is you getting frustrated with your personal perception of how I am "acting". This is on you not me correct yourself before attempting to correct others.

The correct course of action is to drop this thread and let it die and focus your attention on something that is actually worth while.

Who in the hell are you to decide what does and does not matter in this game? Just like me it is a personal choice to deem one way or the other and this is what I have chosen. If you do not like it too bad it is not your choice to make.

Like getting a new supporter item through, or getting new users involved in this game.

Bad choice of words bro really really really bad choice of words. I have and continue to try to do things like this on a daily so in a word "Pffft!" Try again because you totally failed with that comment.

Why don't you do something like that instead of throwing a little hissy fit every time something in this game doesn't go the way you like it to?

As if you have not done the same you freaking hypocrite, every one has at one point in time said "Hey this sucks!" and guess what? They have a right to do so. If you do not like it then do yourself a favor and just not click the link to the thread. See problem solved.

AdminTitan September 18 2011 3:37 AM EDT

... I really don't understand how you don't get forum banned sometimes. You really need to calm down. I don't have anything against you personally, just bumping your own thread with a blank response when you've already got all the answers you've gotten is insulting to those people who have already respond to you.

Zenai September 18 2011 3:48 AM EDT

Titan: When people think they have the right to tell me how I should and shouldn't think, act or feel is insulting to me and I will balk at it every time. As far as calming down I am not even frustrated anymore that was yesterday. On bumping it with a space that is my choice to make( and I can do so ever 24 hours get over it) and no it was not intended to insult the people whom I have spoken with about this subject. If this is how you decide to see it this is a matter of your perception and should not affect me in the slightest. On Forum Banning I have wondered about you and several others as well then it hit me, I really got the idea of FREE SPEECH.

AdminTitan September 18 2011 3:53 AM EDT

This isn't your domain, Free speech doesn't apply here. Any of the admin's could ban you on a whim. Do you really think bumping a thread with an empty post daily is appropriate? You're a child Zen... a child.

Zenai September 18 2011 3:57 AM EDT

Titan: For continuing when you have the option not to is childish in and of itself. Furthermore doing so when you have no reason other than to try and make me do what you want is truly the markl of a child and a foolish brat of one to boot. Face it Titan I am NOT going to do what YOU think I should do but rather what I feel I should do. Get the pint yet? On the Bumping dude seriously take a freaking hike I have seen ppl bump posts with ridiculous crap and have said nothing myself, for that matter I have yet to see you tell a single on of them anything either.....interesting.

AdminTitan September 18 2011 3:59 AM EDT

Furthermore doing so when you have no reason other than to try and make me do what you want is truly the markl of a child and a foolish brat of one to boot

I have quite a reason to do so... It makes you look like a fool when you respond. I'm going to bed now, so I'll have to wait 8 hours or so for your ever so intelligent response.

Zenai September 18 2011 4:02 AM EDT

I have quite a reason to do so... It makes you look like a fool when you respond. I'm going to bed now, so I'll have to wait 8 hours or so for your ever so intelligent response.

So in short you are Trolling. Figures most hypocrites are......

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 18 2011 9:47 AM EDT

i locked this thread due to the fact that it had outlived any usefulness it might have had as well as degrading into name-calling.
This thread is closed to new posts.