Does Evasion actually get penalised? (in General)


AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 10 2012 12:25 PM EST

My Dex and Evasion are currently equal to each other;

Dexterity: 498,865 / 383,743
Evasion: 498,837 / 383,721 (Effect: 80)

And I've recently started training Haste as well.

Facing a target with no EC my post battle stats are;

Dexterity 523,606
Total Evasion 86

(So the 800K RoBF gives me an extra 6 Evasion! ;) )

But facing enough EC to nearly halve my Dex my stats are;

Dexterity 287,855
Total Evasion 86

I still have the same amount of Evasion, even though there's 110K Worth of Evasion that should be penalised.

Is my Evasion actually getting reduced, and it just doesn't show?

Or is it not being reduced at all?

QBRanger January 10 2012 12:29 PM EST

Maybe evasion is set as a constant at the beginning of battle and is not subject to changes from EC, haste or the axbow.

It would be difficult to program in a change in evasion from round to round if you get hit via the axbow. So possibly the evasion you have prebattle is the evasion you have for the whole battle.

I am just guessing and do not have access to the code.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 10 2012 1:50 PM EST

You can use Haste to satisfy the Evasion/Dex relationship, can't you? Would seem funny if you could get your full Evasion if you only had Haste based Dex which got negated by a larger DM.

Then again it might be too much to calculate on the fly with things like AXBow hits.

Not sure. :/

AdminShade January 10 2012 2:13 PM EST

The way I see it, it gets a bonus :p

QBPit Spawn [Abyssal Specters] January 10 2012 3:35 PM EST

RoBF "Grants an effective trained Evasion". If this is added before the dx check/penalty then you are getting the penalty in both cases.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 10 2012 3:41 PM EST

I'm sure NW based Evasion (DBs/RoBF) isn't penalised.

I have to /nospellcheck this. :/

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 10 2012 3:42 PM EST

Note: Only trained Evasion is 60% as effective. Evasion granted by Displacement Boots or another source give full effect and are stacked AFTER the penalty has taken place.

QBPit Spawn [Abyssal Specters] January 10 2012 4:02 PM EST

an effective trained evasion too though, sounds like it could be either way

QBPit Spawn [Abyssal Specters] January 10 2012 4:49 PM EST

makes me wonder about the Gi too, whether penalty is applied to it or not

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] January 10 2012 6:18 PM EST

RoBF penalty is not applied, Gi penalty is applied.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 10 2012 6:50 PM EST

Why isn't my Evasion being penalised here Nat? Or am I missing something? :/

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] January 10 2012 6:53 PM EST

I don't know. I haven't tested EC with evasion.

QBRanger January 10 2012 9:26 PM EST

I have enough EC to knock your dex to negatives if you wish to see.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] January 10 2012 9:35 PM EST

i seem to remember that evasion is calculated per round. it changes so often in ranged it would have to be wouldn't it? most likely the number shown is the effect before the ec is applied each round and the ranged penalties etc.

QBRanger January 10 2012 10:24 PM EST

Dude,

I think you are right.

Current evasion uses multipliers in ranged rounds IIRC. Jon changed super evasion to what we have now and kept the multipliers in early ranged rounds.

Therefore it has to be calculated each round.

QBRanger January 10 2012 10:25 PM EST

The changelog:

http://www.carnageblender.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002X5s

QBPit Spawn [Abyssal Specters] January 10 2012 11:07 PM EST

That would imply that he already has the penalty or is not getting one at all.

Train a little bit more evasion so its higher and see if your evasion goes down. If it doesn't then you already have the penalty, if it does then you're not getting one.

AdminTitan January 10 2012 11:25 PM EST

That would imply that he already has the penalty or is not getting one at all.

Looking at the chart, he is not getting a penalty if his evasion is 80 before RoBF. I'm simply guessing that since evasion is calculated each round due to ranged bonuses and such, that things like EC and dex drainage don't show up and that it just shows what your initial evasion is. The other answer is that is shows your most recent evasion, and DX just isn't having any effect. I'll leave the testing up to someone else :)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 11 2012 2:07 AM EST

It's only Evasion above Dex that suffers the penalty, so I'd have to train a significant amount of Evasion over my natural Dex to see if I get any penalty.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 11 2012 2:34 AM EST

A single AXBow hit doesn't have any impact on the display either;

Dexterity 450,326
Total Evasion 87

(Updated stats are now Dex & Eva 508,371 - 391,055 (81 Effect), 87 Evasion effect in post battle stats)

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] January 11 2012 7:34 AM EST

i think the evasion effect shown is simply your evasion before any outside forces affect it.

AdminTitan January 11 2012 9:15 AM EST

i think the evasion effect shown is simply your evasion before any outside forces affect it.

Yup, this seems the most logical to me as well.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 11 2012 9:39 AM EST

Would it be possible to get it updated to be a post battle stat? Like the rest of them?

QBPit Spawn [Abyssal Specters] January 11 2012 9:42 AM EST

Just like direct damage - it doesn't show the leadership bonuses.

Areodjarekput January 11 2012 10:29 AM EST

The Leadership bonus for DD effects damage directly, not DD level.

With no Leadership on my front minion:
enchantress cast Antimagic Field on Satan's Gift (0.11)

With +32 Boots of Fortitude, and a +10 Amulet of Leadership on my front minion:
enchantress cast Antimagic Field on Satan's Gift (0.11)

Since the bonus is only for damage, and not DD level, the display in the post game stats box is correct.

Areodjarekput January 11 2012 10:56 AM EST

Forgot to include this.

AMF Backlash without Leadership:
Satan's Gift takes damage from his own Shocking Grasp (324,106)!

AMF backlash with Leadership:
Satan's Gift takes damage from his own Shocking Grasp (408,371)!

Quyen January 11 2012 12:08 PM EST

Jon changed super evasion to what we have now and kept the multipliers in early ranged rounds.

what was super evasion? :O

QBRanger January 11 2012 12:23 PM EST

Ah, the good ole days of super evasion.

At one time, long ago in a game far far away, evasion gave defensive dexterity equal to its level.

In addition, there were bonuses to both the defensive dexterity and minus PTH in ranged up to 3x in the first missile round.

Tanks almost never ever hit the flying evasion walls that used the AoF, EB, EC, EG and put all their xp into evasion.

Talk about mage blender!

QBPit Spawn [Abyssal Specters] January 11 2012 12:30 PM EST

The Leadership bonus for DD effects damage directly, not DD level.

This is true, but damage is related to level and varies by round, so it should be shown.

Otherwise what is the point of showing DD in post battle stats. Nothing else affects DD level/effect in battle so you might as well just go look at your DD level on the train page.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 11 2012 12:31 PM EST

ENC effects DD doesn't it?

QBRanger January 11 2012 12:35 PM EST

Yes,

Per the original changelog:

http://www.carnageblender.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002Ohz

QBRanger January 11 2012 12:36 PM EST

But note:

Junctioned items to a familiar do NOT have ENC penalties.

Therefore you can junction an infinite NW to your familiar and the familiar takes no ENC penalties.

QBPit Spawn [Abyssal Specters] January 11 2012 12:41 PM EST

Mages generally are not limited by ENC. The main exception being possibly a heavy mage, which could be calculated beforehand. The only mage which could have enc affecting it which varies during battle would be one training st/dx. So it's still pointless imo.

QBPit Spawn [Abyssal Specters] January 11 2012 12:45 PM EST

I suppose haste/gs too, but again, don't think there are many encumbered mages. Maybe just me not having much nw either though ;)

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] January 12 2012 4:49 AM EST

Ah, the good ole days of super evasion. At one time, long ago in a game far far away, evasion gave defensive dexterity equal to its level. In addition, there were bonuses to both the defensive dexterity and minus PTH in ranged up to 3x in the first missile round. Tanks almost never ever hit the flying evasion walls that used the AoF, EB, EC, EG and put all their xp into evasion. Talk about mage blender!


Yes i remember those days! Using my evasion wall to hassle the top like no other!
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